The pain of the betrayed spouse.....

[sandylee1]

These are all more reasons why I'll never get married again. Yeah, I'm so okay with gambling half of everything I own that a woman will only open her legs for me...AGAIN. /sarcasm

 

Women like these are what make marriage a bad bet. They make all women look bad (even though they aren't) and they scare the **** out of men who might otherwise get married, for the first time or not.

 

I seriously don't understand why any man would get married today. Let women fend for themselves...it's what they want, isn't it? So give it to them. And I get to keep all my stuff, including my self respect.

 

I can understand why you feel way. Although when women are the higher earners, they loose out financially when their H cheats.

Whoopi Goldberg said she'd never marry again for the same reason. The money.

 

You could always get a prenup.

[sandylee1]

Available is as available does. If they really were "taken" then no amount of seduction would work.

 

Did I foresee the xBW's "pain"? Nope, I didn't know a thing about her. Had no idea if she'd care or not. She wasn't at all relevant, anymore than was the colour of his bedroom walls.

 

And given that she'd been unfaithful herself, she only got what she'd given to another, so it's not exactly as though she had any moral high ground to go acting all "hurt" over, anyway.

 

A whole lot of justification here. Anyone with basic common sense would know a spouse wouldn't be happy if their H or W would feel some pain. A clear lack of empathy is what led you to see her as irrelevant. That's a trait of an OW , so no surprise there.

 

She may be all kind of crazy, but that's not the point.

 

I'm a firm believer in the saying 'do unto others, as you would like done unto you'

[cocorico]

A whole lot of justification here. Anyone with basic common sense would know a spouse wouldn't be happy if their H or W would feel some pain. A clear lack of empathy is what led you to see her as irrelevant. That's a trait of an OW , so no surprise there.

 

She may be all kind of crazy, but that's not the point.

 

I'm a firm believer in the saying 'do unto others, as you would like done unto you'

 

in which case, I simply helped her get what was her due.

[cocorico]

Sure is strange that you're surprised by her behaviour. Given that you slept with her husband while he was still married to her and then he left her.

 

 

Did I say I was surprised? Only, I guess, by how long she's chosen to harbour the craziness, given how that's working for her.

[toolforgrowth]

I can understand why you feel way. Although when women are the higher earners, they loose out financially when their H cheats.

Whoopi Goldberg said she'd never marry again for the same reason. The money.

 

You could always get a prenup.

 

Prenups aren't worth the paper they're written on and are routinely thrown out in court. Simply avoiding marriage all together is the safest bet.

 

The biggest threat to marriage today is the no fault divorce.

 

I also feel that of I refuse to marry, my partner will have a greater incentive to work on the relationship. I could leave the relationship at any time by simply saying "it's over". So you better work hard to ensure this is a relationship I'll want to continue choosing to be in.

[cocorico]

 

So, what husbands feel became, as a result of dealing with men since a young age, irrelevant. What remains is personal guidelines of conduct, not relevant to feelings, and that is what I rely on these days.

 

This makes sense. You can never know, realistically, what someone else might feel, unless you know them well enough. Anything else is projection. So living in accordance with your own values makes most sense. Ultimately, it's yourself to whom you are accountable.

[sweet_pea]

Liril

Unfotunately they do not care about the things you are asking. Just read all the descriptions of "my MM". As you said they are banging someone else's husband , destroying a family , and refer to the AP as " theirs".

There is no way to fully and accurately explain what goes through someone's mind that enters the destructive world of infidelity. Just like there are some people who cannot resist the temptation of food or drugs , there are those of us who are not capable of resisting the temptations that are out there and they will always find a reason why their affair is different .

Whoever figures it all out will be the most famous person on earth

 

I agree.

 

While in the affair, they do not care. If they actually cared, they wouldn't have an affair in the first place.

 

I think some do foresee the pain and go on anyway because of the above, while others don't think about it because they believe what the MM is telling them about his marriage (which may or may not be a lie-- either way, still messed up).

 

They do take into account that their is a spouse/family (unless this is a situation where the AP doesn't know they are an AP), but once again, like above, they do not care.

[Arieswoman]

sweetpea,

 

While in the affair, they do not care. If they actually cared, they wouldn't have an affair in the first place.

 

^^^ x 1000

 

Apparently, (if I can believe anything a cheater says ) my exH and his AP had conversations along the lines of "Isn't it awful we have to have this wonderful relationship with all this guilt?". (She was engaged to someone at the time)

 

But the guilt didn't stop them doing it, because they were both selfish and entitled......

[sandylee1]

 

I also feel that of I refuse to marry, my partner will have a greater incentive to work on the relationship. I could leave the relationship at any time by simply saying "it's over". So you better work hard to ensure this is a relationship I'll want to continue choosing to be in.

 

 

It depends on who your partner is and what they want in the end. When I reached the age I was ready to settle down, if I knew a guy didn't want marriage, I'd be gone. If after a certain length of time i hadn't heard any commitment from him, I ended it . I wouldn't work hard to stay in a relationship that was not headed where I wanted.

 

Just imagine if you thought you'd get a promotion if you worked hard, but no matter what you did, even moving mountains wouldn't get you a promotion, why would you bother working so hard ?

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand why you don't want to risk it again.

 

Even when I was dating my H, he wanted us to live together, see how things went for a couple of years, then get engaged for a while and then get married.

 

Wanting to get me doing wifely duties, without marriage. Well that didn't fly with me at all. I wasn't going to waste my time, while he was being wishy washy. I told him we should probably slow things down, maybe take a break. He couldn't handle that and was scared if we split up, I wouldn't come back. He proposed not long after this.

 

I had been ready to move on. Having been betrayed by someone I loved so much, with all my heart before that, I protected my heart from investing my emotions anyhow.

[sandylee1]

in which case, I simply helped her get what was her due.

 

Wow. No surprise coming from someone who chooses to have a relationship with a MM.

[sandylee1]

If the OM/OW stopped for a moment and gave a thought for anyone other than themselves, maybe they could imagine the pain.

 

It's not rocket science to know it's going to be painful for the BS. Excuses like 'I didn't know her or him' are just nonsense and a refusal to accept personal responsibility.

 

You don't have to know the person, to know they will feel pain if it all blows up.

 

It boils down to not giving a damn about their feelings. When a burglar steals your valuables, they know you won't be thrilled, but they couldn't give a f**k about you.

[cocorico]

When a burglar steals your valuables, they know you won't be thrilled, but they couldn't give a f**k about you.

 

So we're back to the "spouse-as-property" argument. Valuables don't have free will. Spouses do. If a spouse chooses to love, date, or have sex with someone other than the person they're married to, that is their free choice. Unless they were drugged, raped, or hypnotised, they make the choice.

[spookysonata]

So we're back to the "spouse-as-property" argument. Valuables don't have free will. Spouses do. If a spouse chooses to love, date, or have sex with someone other than the person they're married to, that is their free choice. Unless they were drugged, raped, or hypnotised, they make the choice.

 

And what kind of a person makes a choice to betray vows? What kind of a person makes a choice to participate and aid that betrayal?

[sandylee1]

Personal responsibility goes a long way. If your behaviour or actions impact another person negatively, you need to own it. It's your participation in their wrong doing. It's not about a spouse being your property.

 

For the OW/OM who says I know it would hurt, but their marriage was rubbish, he/she was miserable, no sex etc, at least they acknowledge the potential hurt.

 

When you consider your APs spouse as irrelevant, that's about wanting to block out your wrong doing, because if you gave them a thought you might feel bad. It's a coping mechanism. You have to justify it to not make yourself seem bad or acknowledge immoral behaviour.

 

Children of those who fail to acknowledge what they did was wrong, just reinforce that such behaviour is acceptable and go on to behave in a similar manner.

 

I've heard so many OW/WH say their mother was an OW and their father a WH. Children learn from their parents.

[sandylee1]

And what kind of a person makes a choice to betray vows? What kind of a person makes a choice to participate and aid that betrayal?

 

A selfish one who never learnt right from wrong. Upbringing has a large part to play in this.

[truncated]

I have noticed how quickly some ( not all, but some) ow/om are quick to berate a bs if they engage in any behavior that could be hurtful to their child post d-day.

 

They are told they need to calm down, put logic first, think of the innocent children who didn't ask for any of that and how they will be hurt. They are warned they shouln't show their anger or sadness, how they need to keep their emotions in check ,be strong, put on a good front, and how they shouldn't ever let their heart rule their head lest it hurt the kids or damage their relationship with the other parent.

 

 

Funny how the ow/om is given a free pass in that department. Surely, the affair hurts the children, yet the om/ow is given a free pass for participating in this hurtful behavior.

 

 

Actions have consequences.

[truncated]

And what kind of a person makes a choice to betray vows? What kind of a person makes a choice to participate and aid that betrayal?

 

 

Some people exist in their own bubble. They refuse to accept that their actions have consequences, so long as those consequences are not hurting them directly, they don't matter.

 

 

They will only place value on themselves, and not have a problem if their values hurt others, but watch out if anyone ever hurts them!

[Minnie09]

I didn't read all the posts here, but the reason why many ow engage in this behavior, without taking the wife's feelings into consideration, is that the husband makes them believe that it's okay. They don't know the BS, they believe his complaining is justified, they believe that the marriage is in trouble based on his information, and that's what they base their own behavior on. I think fewer OW would be available for an affair, if the affair partner who is married presents his marriage as a happy one.

[spookysonata]

Some people exist in their own bubble. They refuse to accept that their actions have consequences, so long as those consequences are not hurting them directly, they don't matter.

 

 

They will only place value on themselves, and not have a problem if their values hurt others, but watch out if anyone ever hurts them!

 

Agreed. Sad way to live, though.

[purplesorrow]

I didn't read all the posts here, but the reason why many ow engage in this behavior, without taking the wife's feelings into consideration, is that the husband makes them believe that it's okay. They don't know the BS, they believe his complaining is justified, they believe that the marriage is in trouble based on his information, and that's what they base their own behavior on. I think fewer OW would be available for an affair, if the affair partner who is married presents his marriage as a happy one.

 

That's not always true. Some really just do not care. My stbx's ow told me she knew he loved me and was never leaving. That's what he told her from day one. She said when she would ask why he was cheating he would say it's because he was a scumbag. Their email and facebook conversations read the same. She said she just wanted somebody and she had been cheated on before, this was her chance to be on the other side.

[autumnnight]

I didn't read all the posts here, but the reason why many ow engage in this behavior, without taking the wife's feelings into consideration, is that the husband makes them believe that it's okay. They don't know the BS, they believe his complaining is justified, they believe that the marriage is in trouble based on his information, and that's what they base their own behavior on. I think fewer OW would be available for an affair, if the affair partner who is married presents his marriage as a happy one.

 

I am trying to figure out how believing that his marriage is bad somehow translates to the OW not needing to have values. So her values only come into play if he agrees? Does she not have autonomous thoughts and conscience?

[sandylee1]

Some people exist in their own bubble. They refuse to accept that their actions have consequences, so long as those consequences are not hurting them directly, they don't matter.

 

 

They will only place value on themselves, and not have a problem if their values hurt others, but watch out if anyone ever hurts them!

 

Well said. It's a classic case of WRONG and STRONG.

[truncated]

I didn't read all the posts here, but the reason why many ow engage in this behavior, without taking the wife's feelings into consideration, is that the husband makes them believe that it's okay. They don't know the BS, they believe his complaining is justified, they believe that the marriage is in trouble based on his information, and that's what they base their own behavior on. I think fewer OW would be available for an affair, if the affair partner who is married presents his marriage as a happy one.

 

 

One one hand you might be very correct. i don't think many ow are uncaring about how the affair could hurt the wife and kids.

 

I think they get around this psychological barrier by either a bit of willful blindness ( we all do taht sometimes) and only see the good in the mm, not the bad. They take what he says at face value, without really thinking too much about it.

 

It's when they start to think about it that the problems come up for them.

 

Others push her out of their mind and pretend she doesn't exist. again, this seems to be a way for them to avoid facing the fact the affair could hurt her, as the ow is probably not a bad person and doesn't want to hurt anyone.

 

In a few circumstances, the ow simply doesn't care. She places very little value on marriage or the feelings of others. So long as her needs are bing met, that's all that matters. Anyone that can do somethingg to meet her needs is fair game to her, as she is the only one who matters.

 

there's also some that prefer affairs simply because they fill a psychological need for them to feel better than someone else. the more hurt and angry the bs is, the better. this is the type who will incessantly run down the bs because they need to "one up" someone.

[Genieve]

I never understood why a BS would think that OW should consider her. The WS I agree should make that decision. It's often said in here that we have taken what belongs to someone else when in fact, in my case it was given, freely and without my even asking. I did a lot of thinking but I really wanted what he was offering me (in timacy) and finally gave in but I was too busy considering whether to get divorced than whether Mm was. Also he told me they led separate lives. It never crossed my mind to think otherwise he was seeing me ever day including weekends. After several years i now know the pain and believe me I'm suffering dreadfully. But at least he's still home.... I only see him when he's let off the leash. Missing someone who was there for just me every day has got to be a comparable pain hasn't it??? It's hideous.

[Furious]

Hello, I have never been betrayed nor been a OW. Just out of curiosity, I want to understand that why do OW/OM not forsee the pain of a BS. I mean things aka love just doesnt happen in a day. You feel attraction towards a person, text him , call him, meet him, and sooo on. And each time you know where you are heading to. You know you are getting involved with a taken person.How do you not take into account that this person has significant other and even if your married man badmouths his wife, but you dont know what exactly is going on with their marriage.How can you participate in cheating a person.Will you not be hurt if someone did the same to you.

 

The reality is many people weigh their own benefit in contrast to weighing someone else's benifit. The cost of hurting someone else over gaining something for one self is not always a premeditated goal, it's just a condition of cost benifit ratio that suits one's primary objective. Ethics and character play an important role in acquiring a healthy balance of living a life that is satisfying and avoiding unnesccary hurtful actions that cause negative consequences.

 

I believe that the circumstances in an OW's life is significant as to becoming an OW. Some OW are single and vulnerable, some have been serial OW, some are married...some have even been betrayed spouses at one time and divorced and justify it in some way...some just want a part time relationship without commitment and an affair suits their lifestyle..etc..

 

At different times in one's life the pool of available men is limited, the scarcity of an available man with the qualities that you find attractive can make an affair an option to consider. The moral compass can shift for many people, sometimes it's an attitude of if you can't beat them, join them. Or it can be that they've always looked after #1 and they want what they want and it's an integral part of their character.

 

The reality is that most people are very careful to surround themselves with trust worthy people, that those you give your heart to and build relationships with are hugely important. Sadly, many people downplay or ignore hurting someone else if it furthers their own agenda. It is what it is, and often futile to endeavour into a constructive conversation in light of that.