GoldieLox Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 So what prevented him from leaving this marriage with no intimacy? There are a lot of reasons why people don't leave marriages with a lack of intimacy. Children, finances, deep love minus the intimacy, the feeling of sheer obligation... I mean there could literally be a hundred reasons. I'm not saying I agree with all of them nor are all of them outstanding reasons, but people do have their reasons. 3
Hope Shimmers Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 There are a lot of reasons why people don't leave marriages with a lack of intimacy. Children, finances, deep love minus the intimacy, the feeling of sheer obligation... I mean there could literally be a hundred reasons. I'm not saying I agree with all of them nor are all of them outstanding reasons, but people do have their reasons. Thanks GoldieLox. Yes, in my case he loved his wife. It was a huge mismatch intellectually and sexually and intimacy-wise, but he said he loved her because of the past history and kids/grandkids they had together, and she was dependent on him and he couldn't hurt her or make her suffer. She was financially and emotionally and physically hugely dependent on him. It was also obligation and religion (yes, I know - ironic). But those were his reasons, and he believed in them firmly. I know them to be true because I know both of them. 1
Hope Shimmers Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 So what prevented him from leaving this marriage with no intimacy? A question... if you are not a BS or WW as you said in an earlier post (or, I assume, an OW), why do you post to these threads? It would seem you have no experience on either end, so why would you think you could have any true understanding of either side? Just curious. 1
Satu Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 There are many definitions of love, but this one is relevant to the topic: "Love is total commitment to the wellbeing of a person." No cheat loves the person they are cheating on in that way. 2
Hope Shimmers Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 There are many definitions of love, but this one is relevant to the topic: "Love is total commitment to the wellbeing of a person." No cheat loves the person they are cheating on in that way. Well then the ex-MM in my case didn't love anyone. I'm just reporting what he told me and what he believed, and what she told me. All I can say is I'm glad I'm out.
Satu Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Well then the ex-MM in my case didn't love anyone. I'm just reporting what he told me and what he believed, and what she told me. All I can say is I'm glad I'm out. I don't know your story, so I take no issue with it. I just hope you're doing OK.
Hope Shimmers Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I don't know your story, so I take no issue with it. I just hope you're doing OK. Thanks - I thought your post was part of the previous conversation so I replied as I did. It seemed to fit in very well. Sorry! I take no issue with anything, as it all was a mistake 2
Josmatjes Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Most of the cheaters I've been with are actually good people. They can do this to the ones they love because they're not thinking about it at all. They push it out of their minds. I did one time have a woman that cried some before we became physical and actually started crying right after she had an orgasm. Really wailing. She felt horrible about it. That didn't stop us though. We continued another few months and she got over the guilt and enjoyed it. Can I ask what you get out of this? Do u enjoy breaking up marriages? I mean what are your issues that you can't settle down.... I mean why would you want to break up a marriage if children are involved.... Enlighten me!! 1
cocorico Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Hello, I have never been betrayed nor been a OW. Just out of curiosity, I want to understand that why do OW/OM not forsee the pain of a BS. I mean things aka love just doesnt happen in a day. You feel attraction towards a person, text him , call him, meet him, and sooo on. And each time you know where you are heading to. You know you are getting involved with a taken person.How do you not take into account that this person has significant other and even if your married man badmouths his wife, but you dont know what exactly is going on with their marriage.How can you participate in cheating a person.Will you not be hurt if someone did the same to you. Available is as available does. If they really were "taken" then no amount of seduction would work. Did I foresee the xBW's "pain"? Nope, I didn't know a thing about her. Had no idea if she'd care or not. She wasn't at all relevant, anymore than was the colour of his bedroom walls. And given that she'd been unfaithful herself, she only got what she'd given to another, so it's not exactly as though she had any moral high ground to go acting all "hurt" over, anyway.
carhill Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Hello, I have never been betrayed nor been a OW. Just out of curiosity, I want to understand that why do OW/OM not forsee the pain of a BS. IMO, the clearest way to understand this is to reflect on one's own life where one's own ambitions or self-involvement has incidentally or purposely hurt other people. Very few humans, outside of people like cloistered clergy perhaps, make it through life without hurting others, either purposely or accidentally. Reflect on that. I mean things aka love just doesnt happen in a day. You feel attraction towards a person, text him , call him, meet him, and sooo on. And each time you know where you are heading to. You know you are getting involved with a taken person. Sometimes one knows about relationships status, sometimes not. Fuzziest version IME? 'Separated' people. What does that mean? I've seen the gamut. How do you not take into account that this person has significant other and even if your married man badmouths his wife, but you dont know what exactly is going on with their marriage.How can you participate in cheating a person.Will you not be hurt if someone did the same to you. I can't speak for others but men taught me how to treat men, men of my generation, and the clear message is, if you're not on top of them, you're under them and the only relevant rules are those which put one in jail. It's brutal and sometimes deadly and, with all due respect, men generally don't care about other men's 'feelings'. We're fortunate if they care about our lives as an inhibition against killing us. For examples I can point to everyday dealings in my business with men and I have thousands of them. So, what husbands feel became, as a result of dealing with men since a young age, irrelevant. What remains is personal guidelines of conduct, not relevant to feelings, and that is what I rely on these days. 1
truncated Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Available is as available does. If they really were "taken" then no amount of seduction would work. Did I foresee the xBW's "pain"? Nope, I didn't know a thing about her. Had no idea if she'd care or not. She wasn't at all relevant, anymore than was the colour of his bedroom walls. And given that she'd been unfaithful herself, she only got what she'd given to another, so it's not exactly as though she had any moral high ground to go acting all "hurt" over, anyway. This statement contradicts itself. You say that you didn't know anything about her, yet in the next line, you say she had cheated herself so she has no moral ground. So which is it? btw, I think the question the op is asking is how a ow or om can not foresee the pain a bs would feel if their husband or wife were to have an affair. Maybe you don't see that because it wouldn't bother you, but I would hazard a guess that most don't feel that way. it would be very painful. I suppose that notion is not one you are familiar with. The fact that you don't understand how it could be hurtful 8
Genieve Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I'm a lifelong cheater. I've contributed to breaking up many marriages. I specifically hunt for married women to have relationships with. I guess the reality is I'm a bad person so the pain of their betrayed husband never enters into my thoughts. To me it's a competition to spread your seed so as an alpha male I try to spread mine as much as possible. In every other aspect of life I'm straight as an arrow. I'd never cheat in business or break laws. Only with women. Married women. I can't give up married women. In this age of empowerment of women they're way more likely to cheat too. I have zero problems finding my next conquest. Once I spot a woman I know meets the criteria to cheat I have about a 90% success rate. Maybe higher. THIS IS funny lol
ladydesigner Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 But you know even if I believed a MM about this. I'd say fine, get divorced, then we can talk. Why would I want to sneak around with a man. Have a man I can't walk around openly with. If the man is so weak, that he can't leave a bad marriage, he wouldn't be the one for me. Yes but this is the thing. Most AP's believe the marriage is a bad marriage. What constitutes a bad marriage? My marriage was bad because my WH's actions led me to withdraw emotionally which he then turned around and had his A. He blamed the A on me! He told MOW that we were roommates (which was not entirely true we had sex like twice a week) and that I didn't care about him. He did nothing to help our situation. He expected me to help the situation and when I didn't he turned to MOW. I can see why AP's believe the MM about their M as it is only coming from one person's perspective, the MM's and of course they spin it in their favor. 1
toolforgrowth Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Yes but this is the thing. Most AP's believe the marriage is a bad marriage. What constitutes a bad marriage? My marriage was bad because my WH's actions led me to withdraw emotionally which he then turned around and had his A. He blamed the A on me! He told MOW that we were roommates (which was not entirely true we had sex like twice a week) and that I didn't care about him. He did nothing to help our situation. He expected me to help the situation and when I didn't he turned to MOW. I can see why AP's believe the MM about their M as it is only coming from one person's perspective, the MM's and of course they spin it in their favor. This is exactly what happened to me, except with my xWW! Nobody cares about the BS's pain. That's what took me so long to finally grasp: she didn't care she was hurting me. That's when I got angry and pushed forward with divorce. I scorched the earth under her feet. I kicked everyone from her life out of mine, including my ex step daughter. And I bonded like crazy with my biological daughter. I looked her square in the eyes and said "I don't give a damn what you want." I also told her that I was okay with us divorcing and never seeing each other again, and I meant it. They don't care about your pain until you act as a result of your pain, which then in turn causes them pain. To this day I don't care of I upset her, or if she's mad, or whatever. It's not my problem. I loved her with all my heart, and now I can't even stand to be in the same room with her. The funny thing is, that's what bothers her the most. I used my pain to fuel ask the positive changes in my life, which don't, and will never, include her. 4
CrystalCastles Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Available is as available does. If they really were "taken" then no amount of seduction would work. Did I foresee the xBW's "pain"? Nope, I didn't know a thing about her. Had no idea if she'd care or not. She wasn't at all relevant, anymore than was the colour of his bedroom walls. And given that she'd been unfaithful herself, she only got what she'd given to another, so it's not exactly as though she had any moral high ground to go acting all "hurt" over, anyway. The thing that baffles me in your posts, is how much you cling onto this BW. You consistently talk about her as if you're still, presently an OW. You relish in spewing such disgusting, vitriolic things about her yet you slept with her husband, he left her and she's no longer in your lives. You talk about her as if she's crap stuck to your shoe, rather than a human being. Regardless of what kind of person she was, your posts about her come across as sounding extremely heartless and cruel. Maybe you need to grow up a bit and move on from this? @OP- I think its a case by case. Some women become OW without their knowledge. Goodness I've read quite a few posts on the OW subforum where a woman was posting about how she found out her bf had a family in another city. So those women obviously can't foresee the BW's pain. OW who knowingly get into an affair with a MM are a whole 'nother matter. I think a lot of them don't think they're worth a good, single man who treats them well. Many have self-esteem issues and such, or commitment issues. I don't think this excuses them from sleeping with someone else's husband though. There are OW who say things like "BW means nothing to me, I don't know her and I don't care" to lessen their own guilt. I'm not sure what they tell themselves with regards to the BW and MM's children though. 5
No Limit Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Affairs live from selfishness. As soon as the participants are on their way to each other they blend out their families completely, it's like they don't exist. It's a fantasy that is easily created, even causes the release of certain hormones to help keep it up. 1
toolforgrowth Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 These are all more reasons why I'll never get married again. Yeah, I'm so okay with gambling half of everything I own that a woman will only open her legs for me...AGAIN. /sarcasm Women like these are what make marriage a bad bet. They make all women look bad (even though they aren't) and they scare the **** out of men who might otherwise get married, for the first time or not. I seriously don't understand why any man would get married today. Let women fend for themselves...it's what they want, isn't it? So give it to them. And I get to keep all my stuff, including my self respect.
sandylee1 Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 A question... if you are not a BS or WW as you said in an earlier post (or, I assume, an OW), why do you post to these threads? It would seem you have no experience on either end, so why would you think you could have any true understanding of either side? Just curious. I have been betrayed in past relationships, though not in my marriage so I have unfortunately felt the real life pain and have experience from that POV. My line of work is also linked to dealing with conflict and issues that relate to infidelity.
beatcuff Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Can I ask what you get out of this? Do u enjoy breaking up marriages? I mean what are your issues that you can't settle down.... I mean why would you want to break up a marriage if children are involved.... Enlighten me!! your assumptions are clouding your thinking. M do NOT necessarily end because of A. putting aside those that are never discovered/disclosed. for those 'caught' it is often the steps both take after, that determines M future. while this board is filled with hate towards WS, there are many BS that upon reflection (looking at the entire picture) move forward either after seeing real change or with hope or resignation. factors they stay: i will lose my family (more M even if BS), finances, life style, circle of friends, fear (of starting over). that poster was pointing out why some target married persons: less drama, less time (maybe only meeting a handful of times a year) and less courting during 'dates' (there is no time, minor idle chit chat then action: because the family is waiting). that also means OM/W are a distant second, can't be jealous and yup have long periods of loneliness (even with multiple partners). not a life for me and most but there are ones that do it. if M folk realized this more then they would be 'attentive' to their partners needs/desires and this drama could be mitigated. and yet there is another 'neglected' S with an opportunist ready to pounce.
cocorico Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 This statement contradicts itself. You say that you didn't know anything about her, yet in the next line, you say she had cheated herself so she has no moral ground. So which is it? I didn't know her, or anything about her at the point of choosing to have a R with my then-MM. So I didn't know how she would feel about it. Subsequently, his family and friends put me right about her, told me about her own past as a WS, and her continued support for her WS friends helping them actively betray their BHs (who were supposedly also her friends, but I guess notsomuch) so in retrospect, with what I found out later, I would expect her values to remain constant for others as well as herself, and I'd have expected her not to care about the infidelity. No contradiction at all - just different points in time. btw, I think the question the op is asking is how a ow or om can not foresee the pain a bs would feel if their husband or wife were to have an affair. Maybe you don't see that because it wouldn't bother you, but I would hazard a guess that most don't feel that way. it would be very painful. I suppose that notion is not one you are familiar with. The fact that you don't understand how it could be hurtful Nope, wrong. I know some BS who have been horribly hurt by infidelity. And I know others who've shrugged and carried on as if it's no big deal. Just because I don't make assumptions about how someone is likely to respond when I know nothing at all about them doesn't mean I lack the imagination to conceive of the multiple possibilities. I simply refrain frogged holing them until I have sufficient information to do so. 1
cocorico Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 The thing that baffles me in your posts, is how much you cling onto this BW. You consistently talk about her as if you're still, presently an OW. You relish in spewing such disgusting, vitriolic things about her yet you slept with her husband, he left her and she's no longer in your lives. You talk about her as if she's crap stuck to your shoe, rather than a human being. You forget that continuing to act like "crap stuck to a shoe" gets you treated that way. If she had simply vanished out of our lives, instead of devoting years to acts of stalking, petty theft and vandalism, public nuisance and horrendous behaviour to her kids, she'd have been easy to forget. IRL she's a complete nonentity- when friends want to hitch about her latest outrage, I shut them down. When the kids want to rage about her, I'm supportive but try to remind them of her good qualities. When my H gets incensed and wants to take her head off, I calm him down and tell him she's not worth the blood pressure. Here - low stakes. No one knows her, I can vent all I want. It's far better than having to explain to the kids why I've had her arrested or sectioned. 1
truncated Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) I didn't know her, or anything about her at the point of choosing to have a R with my then-MM. So I didn't know how she would feel about it. Subsequently, his family and friends put me right about her, told me about her own past as a WS, and her continued support for her WS friends helping them actively betray their BHs (who were supposedly also her friends, but I guess notsomuch) so in retrospect, with what I found out later, I would expect her values to remain constant for others as well as herself, and I'd have expected her not to care about the infidelity. No contradiction at all - just different points in time. Nope, wrong. I know some BS who have been horribly hurt by infidelity. And I know others who've shrugged and carried on as if it's no big deal. Just because I don't make assumptions about how someone is likely to respond when I know nothing at all about them doesn't mean I lack the imagination to conceive of the multiple possibilities. I simply refrain frogged holing them until I have sufficient information to do so. Most bs don't simply shrug it off like it's nothing. Sure, maybe a small percentage do, but I think that's it's fairly safe to assume that it is painful ( that's and interesting discussion topic for another thread). Given your own admission <regarding> the way you are open about them, I wouldn't think that many bs would feel much like opening up to you about how they are feeling. Edited March 25, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 4
CrystalCastles Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 You forget that continuing to act like "crap stuck to a shoe" gets you treated that way. If she had simply vanished out of our lives, instead of devoting years to acts of stalking, petty theft and vandalism, public nuisance and horrendous behaviour to her kids, she'd have been easy to forget. IRL she's a complete nonentity- when friends want to hitch about her latest outrage, I shut them down. When the kids want to rage about her, I'm supportive but try to remind them of her good qualities. When my H gets incensed and wants to take her head off, I calm him down and tell him she's not worth the blood pressure. Here - low stakes. No one knows her, I can vent all I want. It's far better than having to explain to the kids why I've had her arrested or sectioned. Sure is strange that you're surprised by her behaviour. Given that you slept with her husband while he was still married to her and then he left her. 2
sandylee1 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 There are a lot of reasons why people don't leave marriages with a lack of intimacy. Children, finances, deep love minus the intimacy, the feeling of sheer obligation... I mean there could literally be a hundred reasons. I'm not saying I agree with all of them nor are all of them outstanding reasons, but people do have their reasons. I suppose so. I guess it depends on how important the intimacy is to that person. If a spouse was sticking in a marriage for a couple of years, till the kids left, I might understand. But when you have a 2 year old and say your staying for the kids, it's gonna be a really long time. YOLO , so why spend the time in secret affairs which are so stressful to avoid detection. It's the idea of being a man's dirty little secret I struggle with. Of course if you are a MOW, I absolutely get why it's under wraps.
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