Do you think cheaters would cheat if they knew the pain they would inflict?

[Spectre]

But again, we are not talking about hurt here, we are talking about the devastation of infidelity.

 

Are you a BS? If so, prior to being cheated on, were you "aware" of the devastating effects that an unfaithful wife would have on you? Really?

 

I know I wasn't even close to imagining it. And if I, the victim of a WS has no idea how much pain and suffering I would have to go through, and the permanent damage caused, TO ME, why would my WS?

 

If the person you are married to doesn't know an affair would devastate you then you need to stop dating people with IQ's in the single digits.

[HereNorThere]

It's one thing to watch it from a far and entirely different to live out the consequences.

 

I went to a funeral yesterday. A woman I work with lost her husband. I can empathize how she feels. I know people lose spouses and loved one's every day. Do I know how it feels to lose a spouse to death??

 

No I don't. And I don't want to find out anytime soon.

 

 

Do you drink and drive or use drugs? Kick babies? No, because humans have the ability for forethought and empathy. This ability to run different models and scenarios and our head is what separates us from the other primates.

 

You might not know EXACTLY how your friend felt that that funeral but you certainly know that you don't want to feel that way!

[Rainbowlove]

This ability to run different models and scenarios and our head is what separates us from the other primates.

 

Then you should try to have more compassion for people who hurt themselves and others, unintentionally.

 

Because not everything is as black and white as you make it sounds.

 

Try running that model through your think non-primate brain.

[Spectre]

For me if you weren't intending to hurt your partner with an affair you would of just dumped them prior to even having one. See, some might think "well, trying to purposefully hurt someone is malicious and the worst thing" but no..I think it's worse then you know it will hurt and just don't give a f*ck. It's not exactly you WANTING to hurt them, it's just you not caring enough to stop yourself from doing it. Which I find worse, and I'm sure others do as well.

[cocorico]

Ugh, what a lovely basis for a relationship. A love affair based on bitterness and spite.

 

Where can I sign up for that?

 

( sounds like someone in that situation needs some hard @ss therapy to learn to handle their problems like an adult and not a child)

 

I'm not arguing with that - I don't think passive-aggressive acting out is the best way of dealing with anything. But many of these cases I've observed involved daily blows to their ego - often professional men of high standing being ridiculed and humiliated publicly by their wives - where the WS embarked on an A almost as "revenge" for the way they were treated, even though they would perhaps not have offered that as an explanation. Whether consciously or not, they wanted to hurt back.

 

Definitely not the kind of R I would want either.

[elaine567]

There are a few who have cheated and recognize it as a terrible regret, but most cheaters do it because they feel like it, and also know that if they are caught, it won't be the end of the world to them.

 

I think you may have something there.

Are cheaters in the main, just not as invested in the marriage/LTR in the same way non-cheaters are?

Although some cheaters appear happy in the marriage and some are not, that may be immaterial, as what they all may have in common is the marriage/LTR is not that important to them deep down.

Not as important as being able to have other sexual partners, is anyway.

[Rainbowlove]

For me if you weren't intending to hurt your partner with an affair you would of just dumped them prior to even having one. See, some might think "well, trying to purposefully hurt someone is malicious and the worst thing" but no..I think it's worse then you know it will hurt and just don't give a f*ck. It's not exactly you WANTING to hurt them, it's just you not caring enough to stop yourself from doing it. Which I find worse, and I'm sure others do as well.

 

Listen, I was honest with my spouse about my feelings for my affair partner before she was my affair partner.

 

Do you think my honesty hurt my wife any less?

 

NO, it decimated her to hear I had fallen for someone else.

 

My point is so many BS categorize all WS as one. We are not one. We are not the same.

[purplesorrow]

Listen, I was honest with my spouse about my feelings for my affair partner before she was my affair partner.

 

Do you think my honesty hurt my wife any less?

 

NO, it decimated her to hear I had fallen for someone else.

 

My point is so many BS categorize all WS as one. We are not one. We are not the same.

 

How did you fall for your ap?

[Rainbowlove]

How did you fall for your ap?

 

Friends for a year before I realize it was an emotional affair we were having.

 

I didn't even know what an EA was until I was in it.

 

Now, looking back there were signs I missed and different choices I could have made.

 

I've spent many day and nights wishing I had made different choices.

[solostand]

Ex OW here. Had a two year affair with xMM.

 

The first time we had sex, I asked him if he felt guilty. He said "50 per cent of the population is doing it."

 

Once we got heavily involved (ILY etc.) I again asked if he felt guilt. He said he did - towards ME for not having enough time for me.

 

If it helps the thread I will note these things about him:

 

1. Former alcoholic who had been sober three years when our A started. Very addicted to affair (as was I)

 

2. Extremely passive aggressive, especially toward his BS. The terrible things he would say about her would boggle your mind.

 

3. Extremely conflict avoidant.

 

4. Was abandoned by his mother (she left with another man) when he was four and he never forgave her.

 

5. Said he would NEVER confess because of finances, and she threatened he would never see his grown children and grandchildren again.

[HereNorThere]

Then you should try to have more compassion for people who hurt themselves and others, unintentionally.

 

Because not everything is as black and white as you make it sounds.

 

Try running that model through your think non-primate brain.

 

Everything may not be black and white, but I think the majority of things are explainable.

 

I try to look for the reason things happen. I don't believe that love or infidelity is some magical force bestowing itself randomly throughout our planet or Universe.

 

Whether it is an impulse control issue, niavete', immaturity, lack of empathy, selfishness, lack of forethought, or million other reasons why a person would cheat including being trapped in bad relationship and for whatever reason unable to end it, I simply want to explain it. I want to put words to things that happen in our Universe and study them. That's just part of who I am.

[truncated]

But again, we are not talking about hurt here, we are talking about the devastation of infidelity.

 

Are you a BS? If so, prior to being cheated on, were you "aware" of the devastating effects that an unfaithful wife would have on you? Really?

 

I know I wasn't even close to imagining it. And if I, the victim of a WS has no idea how much pain and suffering I would have to go through, and the permanent damage caused, TO ME, why would my WS?

 

 

I'm not a bs, but I have seen the effect that a cheating spouse can have. My brother had an affair, and I saw how it damaged my ex sister in law. I have seen it in friends, heard about it in mass media, and have experinced it, at an albeit much lower level, when someone I'd been in a serrious relationship with for more than 6 years cheated.

 

This is what I don't think you are getting. One doesn't have to experience something painful to know that it hurts, nor should they have to.

 

 

Do I need to be punched in the face, get scammed by someone, be betrayed by a friend, be insulted by someone who's opinion I value or any number of other things to know those things would hurt? Of course not. One, with a pretty high degree of accuracy, should be able to predict that and not scam people, punch others or insult them, etc.

 

The big question is how can a spouse, knowing that cheating on their husband or wife will hurt them, still do this?

 

How are they able to ignore that fact? Do they think about it or do they push it out of their minds? What sort of effect does that have on a perosn to do that? How are they able to compartmentalize like that? ow can they look at their spouse in the eye and know that they are plunging a knife in their back?

 

The best answer I can come up with , without having been a ws myself is something my husband told me. he is a soldier who has been in combat, and we talked once about how he was able to do that. He told me that you have to be able to compartmentalize it and put it all in a box. The problem in that box has no lid, and what's in it can easily come out and bleed into the rest of your soul, especially the longer you keep having to put things into that box. ( me paraphrasing his words). Good people doing bad things I guess.

 

In my opinion, many cheaters are similar. They have their own box, and the longer they put things into it, the harder it is to keep what's in it separate from the rest of your life.

 

Another example of good people doing a bad thing, i guess.

[mikethemechanic]

VBM I think you are in love with the person you want her to be you really do not except her for who she is and what she does. What you have done is to have created love with your wife that fits the coordinates of your fantasy.

[Rainbowlove]

Whether it is an impulse control issue, niavete', immaturity, lack of empathy, selfishness, lack of forethought, or million other reasons why a person would cheat including being trapped in bad relationship and for whatever reason unable to end it, I simply want to explain it. I want to put words to things that happen in our Universe and study them. That's just part of who I am.

 

That's fine.

 

Try to understand it, that makes sense. I would understand the need to understand.

 

But jamming every WS into one box is wrong.

 

I've been cheated on. It was the one thing I swore I'd never do...

 

Actually, I always told my wife (jokingly) if I'm ever about to cheat on you, you'll know it first. I never actually thought those words would play out.

 

I just knew I'm not someone who would lie and sneak around...but I also thought I would never have an affair.

 

I was wrong. I was humbled. I paid a heavy price for it.

 

I try not to judge others to harshly now b/c of my own shortcomings.

[truncated]

That's fine.

 

Try to understand it, that makes sense. I would understand the need to understand.

 

But jamming every WS into one box is wrong.

 

I've been cheated on. It was the one thing I swore I'd never do...

 

Actually, I always told my wife (jokingly) if I'm ever about to cheat on you, you'll know it first. I never actually thought those words would play out.

 

I just knew I'm not someone who would lie and sneak around...but I also thought I would never have an affair.

 

I was wrong. I was humbled. I paid a heavy price for it.

 

I try not to judge others to harshly now b/c of my own shortcomings.

 

From what I can tell, many people who cheat have a similar mindset to what you had.

 

I don't think that many of them are sitting around, carefully weighing how much their choices are going to hurt someone. As far as I can tell, many make an effort to push that aspect of it down, because it's too much to face.

 

As I've said, i don't think most people who cheat are bad people, and many get really conflicted, and it ends up hurting them in some very deep ways as well.

[Arieswoman]

Beatcuff post #68,

You said,

 

BECAUSE the overriding theme is one partner checked out and the other was either unaware or oblivious too it.

 

So you are saying that the BS is at fault for the WS's inability to articulate their needs?

[violet1]

I was cheated on and never thought I would cheat. I have a family history of affairs. I knew the pain that an A would cause.

 

 

Honestly, my M was in a really bad place. My H even acknowledges this. It was so bad, I was contemplating divorce. My H was struggling with severe depression and unintentionally checked out of our M. I begged him to go to counselling prior my A. My mistake was I gave up and convinced myself that my H didn't care. I remember thinking if he doesn't care why should I. I was too afraid to tell him either things change or I'm out. I was a coward!

 

 

He and I are both conflict avoidant. We literally stopped talking. We didn't even sleep in the same bed. Our marriage did become a roommate situation. Don't misunderstand, I know I could have and should have handled things differently.

 

 

I own my choices and with the help of counselling, we have learned how to communicate in a healthy manner. Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, I honestly didn't think my H cared. I was wrong when D Day hit. It took me awhile to get get out of the fog, but my perspective has changed.

[Rainbowlove]

Beatcuff post #68,

You said,

 

So you are saying that the BS is at fault for the WS's inability to articulate their needs?

 

Not in all cases, but some do articulate their needs and are not heard for years...

 

Leading to a shut down of emotions, a cut off, a coldness that one is not even aware of...

 

Hard to explain.

 

In hindsight, I wish I could have said to my wife...I've been saying the same things for years and you just brush my needs off like they are not important...if things don't change, our marriage is done...

 

But...we had just had a baby...adding to the stress and disconnect.

 

I didn't even realize I had become so detached from my wife and even from myself...I was someone just going through the motions in my marriage. I was unhappy, but after talking to myself for years about it, I just stopped talking...she wasn't listening anyway.

 

My wife also disconnected from me. It was very much a mutual break down.

 

Then, in walks another woman who listens, who helps me deal with my infant son, (she had 5 of her own babies), she is caring, attentive and fun. For a year we are "just friends". Turns into EA for over a year...

 

I don't blame my wife for my actions, but we can both agree we made mistakes in our marriage that lead to our disconnect, which opened the door to the affair.

[Spectre]

Listen, I was honest with my spouse about my feelings for my affair partner before she was my affair partner.

 

Do you think my honesty hurt my wife any less?

 

NO, it decimated her to hear I had fallen for someone else.

 

My point is so many BS categorize all WS as one. We are not one. We are not the same.

 

Listen, nobody said it wouldn't hurt for you to dump them prior to an affair. It's just doing that DRASTICALLY reduces the pain that would be caused by an affair. Breaking up is hard to do, as the song says. You know what is even harder? Having to deal with a break up and with the fact you were cheated on AND all the fallout with that, and that doubles if you have kids involved.

 

It's not about causing someone no pain, it's about having the friggin decency to cause as little as possible. That is what people don't get, and cheaters especially.

 

But let us be real, your wife should of kicked you to the friggin curb the SECOND you told her you'd fallen for someone else. She obviously did not, otherwise you'd of never been able to have an affair, since it wouldn't be an affair if your ass was kicked the heck out of the house. So you basically flashed a neon sigh to your wife that said "I AM UNHAPPY AND PROBABLY GOING TO CHEAT" and she chose to ignore it, so meh on all that. Doesn't make having an affair okay, but when the writing is on the wall people need to pay attention to it.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Spectre

[Spectre]

I was cheated on and never thought I would cheat. I have a family history of affairs. I knew the pain that an A would cause.

 

 

Honestly, my M was in a really bad place. My H even acknowledges this. It was so bad, I was contemplating divorce. My H was struggling with severe depression and unintentionally checked out of our M. I begged him to go to counselling prior my A. My mistake was I gave up and convinced myself that my H didn't care. I remember thinking if he doesn't care why should I. I was too afraid to tell him either things change or I'm out. I was a coward!

 

 

He and I are both conflict avoidant. We literally stopped talking. We didn't even sleep in the same bed. Our marriage did become a roommate situation. Don't misunderstand, I know I could have and should have handled things differently.

 

 

I own my choices and with the help of counselling, we have learned how to communicate in a healthy manner. Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, I honestly didn't think my H cared. I was wrong when D Day hit. It took me awhile to get get out of the fog, but my perspective has changed.

 

If your H didn't care he'd of dumped you and moved on. Especially since men can be possessive, he doesn't have to love you to not be okay with the idea of you riding other dudes. So if you seriously thought he wouldn't care one bit, I'd feel that is a level of ignorance that you need to address. Unless you addressed that specific thing in counseling.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Spectre

[Rainbowlove]

But let us be real, your wife should of kicked you to the friggin curb the SECOND you told her you'd fallen for someone else. She obviously did not, otherwise you'd of never been able to have an affair, since it wouldn't be an affair if your ass was kicked the heck out of the house. So you basically flashed a neon sigh to your wife that said "I AM UNHAPPY AND PROBABLY GOING TO CHEAT" and she chose to ignore it, so meh on all that. Doesn't make having an affair okay, but when the writing is on the wall people need to pay attention to it.

 

Fortunately, my wife has the capacity to see beyond what seems so obvious to you.

 

Fortunately, we are able to move forward.

 

Your anger for your WS will only hurt you more in the long run, not your WS and not your WS's affair partner.

 

No one, not even me, said having an affair was remotely right.

 

My life is fine and moving forward towards peace and healing. I'm lucky and I know it. I have worked hard for it.

 

I wish you much healing and peace in your life and a little less bitterness, resentment and anger.

 

2005 and you're still that angry?

Edited March 6, 2015 by Rainbowlove

[Spectre]

Fortunately, my wife has the capacity to see beyond what seems so obvious to you.

 

Dude, what are you even talking about? Your wife has the "capacity to see beyond"? Look, she is a super lady for forgiving your cheating ways, but do not get it twisted: you flashed her a damn big sign about what would happen, she chose to ignore it. There is nothing fortunate about that. It is fortunate for YOU she forgave you. That is about it. Her not dumping you when you tell her you love someone else..don't dress that up as her being some understanding woman. This situation isn't fortunate for her, because it means if you get up to your old ways she will just sit there and nod.

 

I wish you much healing and peace in your life and a little less bitterness, resentment and anger.

 

2005 and you're still that angry?

 

Ah yes, the go to "this is all about how you can't get over what happened to you". Because it could never be just the fact reading some of the ways people treat each other just irk. Or just seeing the silly, half assed excuses irk me as well.

 

Don't get it twisted: most people here..their mishaps in love will help to shape their view, but come on now: you don't need to get cheated on to get pissed off at some of the things you read here.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Spectre

[Rainbowlove]

Dude

 

I'm not a dude.

 

Ah yes, the go to "this is all about how you can't get over what happened to you". Because it could never be just the fact reading some of the ways people treat each other just makes me sick. Or just seeing the silly, half assed excuses makes me sick.

 

Don't get it twisted: most people here..their mishaps in love will help to shape their view, but come on now: you don't need to get cheated on to get pissed off at some of the things you read here.

 

I really wish you well. I'm not getting twisted. 10 years is a long time to be pissed and feel like you "can't get over what happened to you".

 

At some point, you do need to find a way to heal and move forward, but that's your work - not mine.

 

I have no bone to pick with you.

[Spectre]

Okay, you keep spouting the 10 year thing, but I don't know why. I've been here for 10 years, it's not like I haven't had relationships since the one that brought me here. Or that I haven't had mishaps in love since then.

 

Though really it doesn't matter. I could of never had a relationship since, and it doesn't make what I've said here any less true. Which, let us be real: is the reason you're even bringing it up, all the while claiming you have no "bone" to pick with me, but you'll totally keep harping on this "you need to heal" and "you've been here 10 years". That is a way of brushing off what a person is saying.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Spectre

[Seachan]

How could anyone know how catastrophic the damage of infidelity until they've lived it? I lived it as the child of infidelity - and I didn't get it until spending years on infidelity forums - that my father's rage and triggers were not due to a personality disorder but caused by the pain of my mother's adultery. The poor man suffered so much grief. And I never could understand it - even though my mom used me as sounding board for her justifications.

 

Pop culture treats infidelity as if it's a cute little naughty game. WS's are just having fun -like previous posters said - and no one should infringe on their fully expressing sexuality whether they are M or not. And BS's need to lighten up and get over it. Or if they're really angry they are actually deranged human beings like "Gone Girl".

 

On some subconscious level, though, I did recognize that violating boundaries with other men would be playing with dynamite. The minute I married, I turned off the switch in my brain that would look at men and think, "Hmmm, I wonder if I could charm him into liking me....?" From marriage on, i viewed all men in my life as my brothers, not romantic prospects.