Do you think cheaters would cheat if they knew the pain they would inflict?

[HereNorThere]

In your analysis i could concur for something deeper than just the "addiction" also good points.

 

I'm TOTALLY with you on the personal problem versus situational problem, although to say it's always a personal problem would be overgeneralizing. However, it's pretty easy to pick a cheater out of a line up. The similar personality traits are just way too obvious to ignore. Lol, I play a game with myself on here where I read a persons post(s) on threads and try to determine whether they're BS or WS. 9/10 times when I read finally read their backstory, I'm correct in my assumption.

 

I'm not cheater and think it's pretty disgusting, but if you left me stranded on deserted island with my fantasy super model, I, like most people, would probably cave given a certain time frame. Some situational cheating is real, but for the most part, most have some giant fundemental character/personality trait that drives their behavior. Personalities that are prone to be more addictive/obsessive would definitely fall into this category.

Edited May 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[minimariah]

Addicts don't have excuses, they control their own paths.

 

basically, HereNorThere got it - her post perfectly described why i think your definition of addiction is off.

 

quite the opposite, addictions are not diseases and are self-brought and path to it completely by choice.

 

it doesn't really matter if they're self - brought or not. in medicine, addiction IS considered a disease. i get what you're trying to say but i think the word "addiction" is a little too strong & wrong to use in this debate.

 

you must have missed alot, i cannot see how you have missed so many stories here and also other forums where it was "just for fun" and "nothing wrong with my marriage" or "my husband is such a great guy" and on and on.

 

oh, i read those stories. & i've seen them... in RL.

the thing is - i don't believe those people when they say that they're perfectly happy in their relationship & marriage (just to be clear - i'm not talking about people with emotional issues here; i'm talking about healthy people).

 

if you claim to have a happy marriage, you cheat BUT it turns out you did it because of this or that, because you were abused or had some unresolved issues or some kind of mental illness? i can definitely accept that, i understand.

 

but keep in mind that there are a lot of people who will fake all of the above just to justify their behavior - when in reality - they're perfectly healthy.

 

ah, "genuine love" be very careful... i don't know of one instance of an affair that is real love, except those that are "Planned" for exit which are very few.

 

i know around 15, including my father. none were exit affairs.

so there is that. & they all last for 15+ years.

 

i do recognize that these are all exceptions. i think it happens more often than people think but it's still rare.

 

i also know a lot of people who stayed married but were genuinely in love & had deep feelings for their APs.

 

Most if you lurk more, will say "i have no intention of leaving, blah blah"

 

while i lurked, i saw a lot of stories that began just like this... & ended in a divorce. i don't think people plan to leave in the beginning but things change as the affair progresses.

 

just the other day i was reading Nattie's (i think?) story and it was exactly like that. in the beginning - all fun and games, claimed she never wanted to leave & how she doesn't love her AP. 3 threads later - they both left their spouses and are together.

 

Sure something is felt, as lust and obsession can be felt. But love is what keeps us together when the bills need paying, the kids go off to school, when there is not enough milk.

AN affair does not have the test of the "mundane in life" IE it not only cheats us but the cheater as well.

 

absolutely agree with this, you are on point.

and most of As are doomed from the start - no doubt about that.

 

When you don't love, healthy behavior is to divorce and not cheat.

 

the thing is... i have a problem with using the word healthy. a LOT of people cheat - does this mean they're all sick, unhealthy? i think healthy is the wrong word. cheating is a character flaw (IMO) - it's selfish, cowardice and immoral. but VERY few people are actually sick and unhealthy (mental illness, disorders, abuse etc). most other cheaters are simply... not moral, not brave, dishonest people.

 

In other words it is fair to say we are allowed to fall out of love, healthy behavior would respond by saying let's end the relationship vs cheating.

 

it's fair to leave & divorce when you don't love anymore. but it's also not realistic for a lot of people. not everyone can afford to be divorced, not everyone can afford a new place to live, sometimes people don't want to spend any less time with their children than they already do.

 

divorcing is not easy, that's why folks usually wait for an outside motivator (aka AP). these are NOT excuses, by the way. but it explains why people wait for exit affairs to "make a move".

 

when i said that infidelity IS "connected" with the state of R or M - i can give you an example where it will be easier to explain.

 

my friend was in a R with his W for about a decade. she started to work many hours, neglecting him. he of course, voiced his concerns and told her how unhappy he is - she did nothing. soon, the M became sexless, his every attempt at working things out was shot down and eventually... he gave up. there was no sex, no intimacy - the relationship was strained. of course, he eventually had an A. was it right? nope. was it moral, decent, brave? none of that. was it related to the state of his M & his relationship with his W? absolutely. if the relationship with his W wasn't strained - he wouldn't cheat, as simple as that.

 

i don't blame his W, do not get me wrong. cheating is HIS fault, absolutely. he had a choice and well... but the problems in his M eventually did lead to his A.

he was unhappy and he wasn't getting what he needed from his M, so he looked elsewhere. again, not excusing that behavior - just showing you that there IS some kind of relation between the state of R & M and partner having an A. not always, but in most cases definitely.

 

the reason why i don't believe that happy people cheat in their happy marriages - i was the BS and i'm having a hard time accepting that someone can inflict that kind of pain on their partner they claim to love and risk everything they claim makes them happy.

 

to me, cheating is a personal problem. but it's also almost always related to the fact that the cheater either doesn't love their spouse or is unhappy in the M - just from my experience.

Edited March 6, 2015 by minimariah

[minimariah]

However, it's pretty easy to pick a cheater out of a line up. The similar personality traits are just way too obvious to ignore.

 

i think it's like that with everyone - cheaters, BS, OW/OM, MM/MW...

although i am confused when people talk about "cheater" - i immediately think about serial cheaters and cake eaters.

 

those folks who left their spouses and divorced eventually & cheated once because they genuinely DID fall in love (not using love as an excuse here), who do regret it and recognize the problem don't have the same traits as those cheaters who are able to rationalize pretty much everything.

[cocorico]

Just wondering if people would actually choose to stray if they really understood what they were going to do to their spouse?

 

 

Sometimes it's a subconscious passive-aggressive act to avenge the daily suffering and pain they experience at the hands of the BS over years, even decades.

[truncated]

Personally, I think that to be capable of cheating in the long term, one has to be able to put the marriage into box A, and the affair into box B. One has to become awfully good at compartmentalizing, and I just don't see how someone can do that and, at the time while they are cheating, be a "good" and trustworthy person.

 

Lying like that day after day and being good enough at it that you can fool your spouse ( and also your om/ow, who may well believe there is a long term future in the relationship) says something about a person and their fundamental values, ethics and morals at that point in time.

 

This is not to say that they will always be that way, but that that time, they are.

[truncated]

Sometimes it's a subconscious passive-aggressive act to avenge the daily suffering and pain they experience at the hands of the BS over years, even decades.

 

 

Ugh, what a lovely basis for a relationship. A love affair based on bitterness and spite.

 

Where can I sign up for that?

 

( sounds like someone in that situation needs some hard @ss therapy to learn to handle their problems like an adult and not a child)

[fellini]

Personally I think this thread has taken a turn into something completely unrelated to the topic, and suddenly a lot of LS members are experts in personality disorders and the wide spectrum of causes of infidelity in our society.

 

Im not sure any of us here has that horrible luxury to be able to pinpoint specific causes to the spectrum of infidelity. I think we know only most/part of what we have lived through and have reflected upon. Little else.

 

I would never pretend to understand someone who is a sex addict. And in fact, in these boards there are BS's who even deny the possibility they exist. Now we have people saying outrageous things like addicts control their own destiny. And conflating "an addict" with "an addiction" is being pretty loose with categories to say the least. Also applying the laypersons ideas about drug addiction, addiction, addict to AN infidelity is to make a huge leap of faith in knowledge. It's one thing to say the "high" from an affair is like a "cocaine" high, it's another to say it IS the SAME as a "cocaine high" and yet another to say that a cheater IS a just like a cocaine addict. These are all pretty slippery ways to talk about a subject that properly belongs to experts.

 

 

 

The question about whether a WS would cheat if s/he knew about the pain and suffering they have caused what I thought the OP was asking.

 

The majority of responses, in my opinion have confused something fundamental in this:

 

Cheaters don't think they will ever get caught.

 

Now surely a reasonable person can see that saying that, a perfectly common sense observation, and one I am prepared to accept is NOT ANY WHERE NEAR the same as saying they know, a priori, the EXTENT of the PAIN they will/have inflected in their spouses, and, for those who wish to remain in the marriage, themselves.

 

Not wanting to get caught can have many rationalities, the least of which is "I want to get away with this, because I cannot stop myself (or don't wish to and deceive myself into thinking I cannot") But this is not the same thing as saying:

 

I am a sadist and a masochist and I don't want to get caught because I KNOW my BS will fall into a trauma that will last the rest of his/her life.

 

Sorry, but I don't hold such disregard towards cheaters, even though to do so might make me feel better as a BS, to think this probable. Possible, perhaps. Rarely.

 

I agree with Artreides that really to lump "all cheaters" into one convenient group is unhelpful. Surely a NPD WS is not the same as a sex addict or a LT office affair, or a ONS. And even within those broad categories there are different motivations for affairs - all of which have their own taxonomy in terms of objective and expected chance for survival of the marriage. Let's take someone who is having an affair and has no intention of ever leaving their marriage. The assumption is there are things in the marriage that they don't want to lose. How hard can it be to believe this BS wants their cake and eat it too and simply does not understand / think about / imagine the pain that is going to come about as a result of the A.

 

Sure, a revenge affair one could say, no: the point was to do damage. To equal the playing field.

 

But even then some people have revenge affairs because they feel entitled. They think their WS isn't going to feel the pain because they don't have the right to, having been in an affair with their boss for 2 years.

 

Asking if a WS would cheat had they known the EFFECT it would have on the other person rides on their knowing the trauma of infidelity. We don't get much education in that area. I've been in dozens of relationships and breakups. If someone had told me 2 years ago that a) infidelity would feel worse than your father passing away and b) your wife is capable of cheating on you, I would have denied both equally.

 

I can assure you my WS believed the same. 3 years ago.

 

Now I know the pain and suffering my WS has caused me is immeasurably worse than my father's passing and now I know that I was not married to the person I thought I was. I can assure you my WS believes the same. Today.

Edited March 6, 2015 by fellini

[waterwoman]

H was sure he'd never get caught - which for an intelligent man is quite stupid considering he didn't really cover his tracks that well. He also underestimated how hurt I would be, because he thought I didn't love him any more (something he realised was so much bovine excrement when he thought about it after the event).

 

I think that maybe if you have never done it before you don't really understand any of the implications of your actions. You should of course, but people act on impulse sometimes and then rationalise their actions, even the most sensible.

[truncated]

I think that it's a fools errand to beleive that a ws has no idea how much pain they will cause.

 

There are plenty of stories fo public consumption in he mass media that portray cheating and how much it hurts. While one can't understand this for sure until they've experinced it, saying that they don't know it can hurt deeply is like saying that someone who never broke a bone can't know that hurts to do so.

 

 

I think that saying otehrwise, denys a simple but very unpleasant and unpalatable act. The person who was cheating knew that it would hurt the bs, hurt the children, hurt the family and cause a lot of suffering, yet they either didn't care, or they did care but not enough to stop what they were doing.

[Arieswoman]

trauncated, you nail it here ;-

 

The person who was cheating knew that it would hurt the bs, hurt the children, hurt the family and cause a lot of suffering, yet they either didn't care, or they did care but not enough to stop what they were doing.

 

My exH told me that he and AP kept discussing "how awful it was to have such a wonderful relationship with so much guilt".

I'm not sure if I believed him or not, but if it was true they didn't feel guilty enough about it to either 'fess-up or stop what they were doing.

[Friskyone4u]

Very few people actually think they will cheat. And then when it happens most of the time the excitement and thrill overcomes any thoughts of the consequences of hurt. That is why most just continue to do it until caught.

[fellini]

I agree the mass media is riddled with drama about infidelity, but i disagree with your assessment that it even adequately shows the damage, the pain, the suffering or the long term effects. But give me some examples. I know of only one that comes close, but that was a movie made over 39 years ago with Jill Claybourne. ..

 

Movies like Little Children that capture the essence of infidelity really quite well, fail to show the emotional effects on the BSs.

 

The majority are just intrigue films about husbands or wives getting revenge.

 

 

I think that it's a fools errand to beleive that a ws has no idea how much pain they will cause.

 

There are plenty of stories fo public consumption in he mass media that portray cheating and how much it hurts. While one can't understand this for sure until they've experinced it, saying that they don't know it can hurt deeply is like saying that someone who never broke a bone can't know that hurts to do so.

 

 

I think that saying otehrwise, denys a simple but very unpleasant and unpalatable act. The person who was cheating knew that it would hurt the bs, hurt the children, hurt the family and cause a lot of suffering, yet they either didn't care, or they did care but not enough to stop what they were doing.

[Auspecial]

Yes, they would. They have some level of caring, but they don't care enough to use a teeny bit of self control.

 

 

There are a few who have cheated and recognize it as a terrible regret, but most cheaters do it because they feel like it, and also know that if they are caught, it won't be the end of the world to them.

[autumnnight]

I think by the time some people cheat, their thinking has already become so self-centered and screwed up, they just don't think about it. And if they do, it is probably AFTER that first roll in the hay. And then it becomes "Do I end this because it is wrong" vs "Do I give up something that felt really really good and after I don't I deserve some happiness". Their "deserve" has already overtaken their "right and wrong" at that point.

[Rainbowlove]

Had I known the damage I would have done to myself - no, I wouldn't.

 

Yes, I hurt my partner badly. Worse, though, is the loss of self-love more than anything.

 

Because when you no longer love yourself, it doesn't matter who in the world loves you...everything just feels bad.

 

Some WS who have been loyal for decades (like myself) don't realize they are even in an EA until it's too late. Maybe my situation is different b/c I'm a lesbian and I genuinely thought I was forming friendship with my former affair partner. I don't know.

 

I also didn't lie to my partner's face regarding my feelings for the other woman.

 

None-the-less, I had an affair.

 

Would I have done it knowing how decimated everyone's life would have been. 100% hell NO.

[fellini]

Again always this slippage.... That anyone thinks that being unfaithful is not going to "hurt" is a given. we all know this. But there is a huge difference between saying someone hurt someone and someone knew they were deeply hurting someone on purpose, and someone who is doing something that will permanently scar them for life and in unimaginable ways.

 

I dont know about you, but i interpreted the thread to be about the 3rd, not the 1st example.

 

 

 

 

I think that it's a fools errand to beleive that a ws has no idea how much pain they will cause.

 

There are plenty of stories fo public consumption in he mass media that portray cheating and how much it hurts. While one can't understand this for sure until they've experinced it, saying that they don't know it can hurt deeply is like saying that someone who never broke a bone can't know that hurts to do so.

 

 

I think that saying otehrwise, denys a simple but very unpleasant and unpalatable act. The person who was cheating knew that it would hurt the bs, hurt the children, hurt the family and cause a lot of suffering, yet they either didn't care, or they did care but not enough to stop what they were doing.

[truncated]

I agree the mass media is riddled with drama about infidelity, but i disagree with your assessment that it even adequately shows the damage, the pain, the suffering or the long term effects. But give me some examples. I know of only one that comes close, but that was a movie made over 39 years ago with Jill Claybourne. ..

 

Movies like Little Children that capture the essence of infidelity really quite well, fail to show the emotional effects on the BSs.

 

The majority are just intrigue films about husbands or wives getting revenge.

 

 

There are lots of films and songs about the pain of being cheated on, and even if there weren't, you have a hard time making me believe that as ws will somehow think taht chetaing won;t hurt the bs.

 

if they think that, is says a lot about them as a perosn and their lack of ability to feel empathy. It really does.

[beatcuff]

the problem with this question is the assumption of black v white. either they cheat or not.

 

it ignores the decision for them to 'separate' (even for a weekend) and have a boyfriend. i do not see much difference in the pain.

 

BECAUSE the overriding theme is one partner checked out and the other was either unaware or oblivious too it.

 

and while we bash one side or the other the real truth is lines of communication were damaged years ago. and that should be lesson learned.

[Spectre]

Of course they'd still cheat! You think cheaters DON'T know the harm they cause? If they thought it would cause no harm they'd never ever lie about cheating or keep it from their partner.

 

So of course they wouldn't care, because that is how cheaters are. Selfish people tend to not care about the feelings of others.

[HereNorThere]

I agree the mass media is riddled with drama about infidelity, but i disagree with your assessment that it even adequately shows the damage, the pain, the suffering or the long term effects. But give me some examples. I know of only one that comes close, but that was a movie made over 39 years ago with Jill Claybourne. ..

 

Movies like Little Children that capture the essence of infidelity really quite well, fail to show the emotional effects on the BSs.

 

The majority are just intrigue films about husbands or wives getting revenge.

 

Yes, because here in the United States we didn't get to witness our President Bill Clinton's life picked apart and become the subject of millions of dollars worth of investigations that eventually led to his impeachment. We haven't personally witnessed him ridiculed for years on every television show, Monica Lewinsky's life completely shattered, Hillary Clinton writing books on how humiliated she was, etc. etc.

 

Dude, you don't become an adult and not have a basic understanding of relationships work. At some point, we've all witnessed someone suffer from the shame and embarrassment of cheating or being cheated on. Friends, family, our co-workers, OUR PRESIDENT, athletes, public figures, etc.

[Rainbowlove]

Yes, because here in the United States we didn't get to witness our President Bill Clinton's life picked apart and become the subject of millions of dollars worth of investigations that eventually led to his impeachment. We haven't personally witnessed him ridiculed for years on every television show, Monica Lewinsky's life completely shattered, Hillary Clinton writing books on how humiliated she was, etc. etc.

 

Dude, you don't become an adult and not have a basic understanding of relationships work. At some point, we've all witnessed someone suffer from the shame and embarrassment of cheating or being cheated on. Friends, family, our co-workers, OUR PRESIDENT, athletes, public figures, etc.

 

It's one thing to watch it from a far and entirely different to live out the consequences.

 

I went to a funeral yesterday. A woman I work with lost her husband. I can empathize how she feels. I know people lose spouses and loved one's every day. Do I know how it feels to lose a spouse to death??

 

No I don't. And I don't want to find out anytime soon.

[fellini]

But again, we are not talking about hurt here, we are talking about the devastation of infidelity.

 

Are you a BS? If so, prior to being cheated on, were you "aware" of the devastating effects that an unfaithful wife would have on you? Really?

 

I know I wasn't even close to imagining it. And if I, the victim of a WS has no idea how much pain and suffering I would have to go through, and the permanent damage caused, TO ME, why would my WS?

 

 

 

There are lots of films and songs about the pain of being cheated on, and even if there weren't, you have a hard time making me believe that as ws will somehow think taht chetaing won;t hurt the bs.

 

if they think that, is says a lot about them as a perosn and their lack of ability to feel empathy. It really does.

[HereNorThere]

But again, we are not talking about hurt here, we are talking about the devastation of infidelity.

 

Are you a BS? If so, prior to being cheated on, were you "aware" of the devastating effects that an unfaithful wife would have on you? Really?

 

I know I wasn't even close to imagining it. And if I, the victim of a WS has no idea how much pain and suffering I would have to go through, and the permanent damage caused, TO ME, why would my WS?

 

 

Of course I was and still am. I hate to sound vain, but I'm a pretty handsome fellow with decent income for my age. Once I hit about 25, women including married women have been throwing themselves at me. Sure it would be easy to have one off, but my brain has an overwhelming try for self-preservation. I'm not going to throw away everything I have over an extra piece of tail.

 

In your defense, I watched another family member cheat and give his wife AIDS when I was 15, so I did witness a few lives destroyed due to infidelity, but I know very few people who were touched by it in some fashion in their lifetime.

[HereNorThere]

Whether I was 10 years old or I was 30 years old, I didn't have to be shot with a gun to tell you that being shot the gun was pretty bad.

[Rainbowlove]

Whether I was 10 years old or I was 30 years old, I didn't have to be shot with a gun to tell you that being shot the gun was pretty bad.

 

 

But if you had to live through the healing of wounds, go through physical therapy, through endless surgeries you'd have a deep understanding an compassion...

 

Are you saying that you have the same understanding of gun violence than Gabrielle Giffords who was shot in the face and has spent years rehabilitating?

 

I don't think you do no matter your next defense.

 

It's really a silly comparison.