Why do I not care enough to do the heavy lifting?

[Aspentree]

You do understand that the pain you felt at the moment you were telling him everything, was a sampling of what he carried within himself for 20 years right?

 

Life gave you a chance to atone, and you couldn't handle a fraction what he had to endure for years.

 

I honestly see no point in rubbing your past mistakes in your face, but I do want to point them out in case you have overlooked them.

 

And for the 3rd time I will ask you

 

Are you honestly IN LOVE with him?

 

How do you tell when you're in love with someone? I believe that I am in love with him. We connected deeply at the very beginning and I still feel that way about him now. I know that after 5 - 10 years together certain resentments crept in, I felt deeply humiliated by the way he expressed anger toward me. I took it personally and never addressed it responsibly.

 

 

What I put him through with the affairs was far worse. Somehow in the years after I would refuse to admit to myself how deeply I hurt him.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have revealed everything I knew including the diary I kept during the 2 years following D-Day of A#2.

 

You've kept a diary from your A for 20+ years? Why?

 

But that depends on whether I WILL do the heavy lifting.

 

Have read several times that you're unsure about doing the "heavy lifting". And you've also professed your love for your spouse and regret over hurting him.

 

If that's the case, why wouldn't you willingly and enthusiastically take the steps to repair your marriage? I'm unsure what exactly stands in your way...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ralph79]

How do you tell when you're in love with someone? I believe that I am in love with him.

 

To be honest, the answer to that question is too subjective. I am not qualified to give you a correct response with complete certainty that applies for YOU.

 

But I was wondering if you would have flat out said : NO.

 

But you didn't. And you want to save your marriage. And you want your husband to be happy.

 

I guess I'm confused about your question. What exactly is it, that you find yourself having trouble following up on? What is he asking of you that you are reluctant to give him?

 

Because you did say you went over the affair details once. And it made things miserable. If he's asking you to go over them again... what's keeping you from doing it?

 

Is it concern for his mental health? Is it fear to feel overwhelmed again? The shame?

 

What are you feeling ?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Have you BOTH read this book?

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf

[Selfish]

It sounds to me like you have fallen short on the daily wringe of questions. The time frame is difficult in this because yes he has had time for it to fester. And you have had time to forget and change memories. (We all do that) i do wonder how much there is to tell with an ea and one day pa no sex. Not diminishing it but conversations and exact feelings from that many years ago would be hard.

 

My advice is to sit down and write a timeline using your journal to spark your memory. Dont add or minimize on it. Give it to your husband. Then when he has questions answer him and then write then down. Go over it as much as he wants. If you remember something more add it as soon as you do.

 

My affair was really short and I confessed a month after it and even then I had to go back and tell things I forgot when memories were triggered later. Not huge things but stuff id forgot and felt as part of full disclosure i should tell (one lightly physically thing but the rest was verbal junk)

 

Are you in IC? I might have missed that.

 

As to not loving him then but nkw (his wondering). He is at the irrational stage. Just reassure him that you love him very much. He will remember that love is not static. It can grow and wane depending on where we are at. And for some we dont stop loving our spouse ever we are just broken and selfish and our love at the time is worthless, a reflection of our actions and state of being.

[Mrs. John Adams]

How can you tell if you love someone?

 

Would you be willing to put his needs above your own?

Would you be willing to sacrifice your own well being for his?

 

You see...I would be willing...I would be heart broken...but i would be willing to walk away with nothing..if that is what my husband needed to heal.

 

I don't say this lightly...I am almost 60 years old and financially I would have nothing. But if he decided even now after 42 years of marriage and 31 years since my infidelity...that he would be better off without me....I would walk away.

 

My needs came first 31 years ago...when i decided to betray him in the vilest way possible. I can never give back what i took away that day...I cannot undo it. But I certainly can do my best to show him that his needs will forever come before my own from now on.

 

The wonderful thing is...because i have lived the last 31 years this way....he would never ask me to leave. Because i have done the heavy lifting.

 

The more remorseful I have become...the more my husband trusts me. The more he trusts me, the more he lets go, the more he lets go, the closer we become, the closer we become, the more he helps me do the work.

 

That is how i know i love this man.....

 

You opening statement....WHY DO I NOT CARE ENOUGH TO DO THE HEAVY LIFTING.....says it all.

[road]

The OP has an affair, does nothing but rug sweep. Then has another affair and rugs sweeps again. Goes back to work where she had affairs and refuses to see it will trigger her BH.

 

 

Her marriage in in poor health. Yet she still does nothing.

 

 

OP do you still work where you cheated?

[Aspentree]

You've kept a diary from your A for 20+ years? Why?

 

 

 

Have read several times that you're unsure about doing the "heavy lifting". And you've also professed your love for your spouse and regret over hurting him.

 

If that's the case, why wouldn't you willingly and enthusiastically take the steps to repair your marriage? I'm unsure what exactly stands in your way...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I've kept diaries over many periods of my life, but not all. I did not keep a diary during either of the affairs (imagine that), but I remember deciding that it was important to keep it afterwards to record what I felt and what I did in R. It did have some entries that show how difficult it was to tell the AP to keep a distance and to ignore the AP's repeated efforts to re-kindle what had sparked between us earlier. After 4 months AP left to take job in another state. The entry that was the worst revelation for my H was an entry that was at least a year past D-Day when I found out that AP married his old GF and I made following entry "this closes the door of opportunity that I had held open forever". This has haunted my husband like nothing else, because it showed him that while I had decided to be with him and purportedly loved him, I had still been thinking about this OM as a possibility. So for months H would read the journal again and ask me about things in it. Finally I decided that it had caused enough grief and I fed it into the paper shredder. At the time I justified it by saving him the pain, but really I was the one I was concerned about here. Understandably he was not happy about this.

[Aspentree]

I've kept diaries over many periods of my life, but not all. I did not keep a diary during either of the affairs (imagine that), but I remember deciding that it was important to keep it afterwards to record what I felt and what I did in R. It did have some entries that show how difficult it was to tell the AP to keep a distance and to ignore the AP's repeated efforts to re-kindle what had sparked between us earlier. After 4 months AP left to take job in another state. The entry that was the worst revelation for my H was an entry that was at least a year past D-Day when I found out that AP married his old GF and I made following entry "this closes the door of opportunity that I had held open forever". This has haunted my husband like nothing else, because it showed him that while I had decided to be with him and purportedly loved him, I had still been thinking about this OM as a possibility. So for months H would read the journal again and ask me about things in it. Finally I decided that it had caused enough grief and I fed it into the paper shredder. At the time I justified it by saving him the pain, but really I was the one I was concerned about here. Understandably he was not happy about this.

 

Just clarifying here that I did keep this diary for 20+ years and that my H got to read it 2.5 years ago and a little over a year ago I shredded it.

[Aspentree]

How can you tell if you love someone?

 

Would you be willing to put his needs above your own?

Would you be willing to sacrifice your own well being for his?

 

You see...I would be willing...I would be heart broken...but i would be willing to walk away with nothing..if that is what my husband needed to heal.

 

I don't say this lightly...I am almost 60 years old and financially I would have nothing. But if he decided even now after 42 years of marriage and 31 years since my infidelity...that he would be better off without me....I would walk away.

 

My needs came first 31 years ago...when i decided to betray him in the vilest way possible. I can never give back what i took away that day...I cannot undo it. But I certainly can do my best to show him that his needs will forever come before my own from now on.

 

The wonderful thing is...because i have lived the last 31 years this way....he would never ask me to leave. Because i have done the heavy lifting.

 

The more remorseful I have become...the more my husband trusts me. The more he trusts me, the more he lets go, the more he lets go, the closer we become, the closer we become, the more he helps me do the work.

 

That is how i know i love this man.....

 

You opening statement....WHY DO I NOT CARE ENOUGH TO DO THE HEAVY LIFTING.....says it all.

 

Thank you! that is a wonderful way to describe being in love and the healing that can come from that. I am realizing how wonderful it is to love someone that way and what it takes. I think H must have felt some of that love, because he was so happy to see me today after another painful night and morning. I still have a long road ahead of me.

[Aspentree]

Have you BOTH read this book?

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf

Yes we have. It was over a year ago and I have just re-read it. I should have kept it on my night table. What's in there needs to be applied on a daily basis.

[Mr. Lucky]

Just clarifying here that I did keep this diary for 20+ years and that my H got to read it 2.5 years ago and a little over a year ago I shredded it.

Finally I decided that it had caused enough grief and I fed it into the paper shredder. At the time I justified it by saving him the pain, but really I was the one I was concerned about here. Understandably he was not happy about this.

 

So the diary had enough value to you that you kept it for two decades. But when it became valuable to your husband, you destroyed it. Almost a metaphor for your entire relationship...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Aspentree]

i do see that you lack empathy but I do not believe that is your major issue.

 

You lack INTIMACY. You avoid conflict, do not truly know WHY you did what you did and have not been willing to introspect WHY it happened in the first place...Do you?

 

and it's never the first go to reasons you may think of, but something much older and deeper than the start of your affair or your marriage.

 

Are YOU in IC? are YOU learning why rug sweeping is so much easier than confronting all that pain you caused your spouse in the past?

 

it is fairly common for us BSs to go crazy until the WS figures out their why for destroying our love, trust, confidence and world view.

 

And it is often not until we again feel very, very safe in the restored relationship that we allow all that rage and pain to come spewing out.

 

You need to care.....humility, remorse, total transparency, empathy, tears....all good.

 

heavy lifting?

 

Lady, you never started.

 

 

I hear you! Some serious introspection is needed here. I should see an IC to sort through this. I never liked conflict. I have always been a conflict avoider.

We have some theories why it happened. I was looking for someone to validate me, to tell me I'm great, because I was not getting it from H who was getting very annoyed with my conflict avoidance, with my defensiveness, lack of initiative to step up and take charge, and lack of intimacy. Intimacy between us may have saved me from latching on to the APs, who knows?

[Aspentree]

So the diary had enough value to you that you kept it for two decades. But when it became valuable to your husband, you destroyed it. Almost a metaphor for your entire relationship...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I barely remembered I even had it. I have a lot of things stowed away and I don't really know why I am keeping some things.

But yes, the diary was some proof he could hold onto, something that did not change from one verbal description to another.

[Aspentree]

To be honest, the answer to that question is too subjective. I am not qualified to give you a correct response with complete certainty that applies for YOU.

 

But I was wondering if you would have flat out said : NO.

 

But you didn't. And you want to save your marriage. And you want your husband to be happy.

 

I guess I'm confused about your question. What exactly is it, that you find yourself having trouble following up on? What is he asking of you that you are reluctant to give him?

 

Because you did say you went over the affair details once. And it made things miserable. If he's asking you to go over them again... what's keeping you from doing it?

 

Is it concern for his mental health? Is it fear to feel overwhelmed again? The shame?

 

What are you feeling ?

 

What exactly is it, that you find yourself having trouble following up on? What is he asking of you that you are reluctant to give him?

 

 

Three years ago when we really faced these affairs and started R, H was looking for apologies (sincere, heartfelt, thoughtful, meaningful apologies); affirmations of love; and there were details of the As that had been glossed over or never talked about. When we talked I was hesitant but responded. It hurt him that I would never bring it up, even though I knew it consumed him. I was inconsistent in some responses as it was hard to remember some details and rather than try to remember I fell upon, "I don't remember" all too easily. I was also not very reflective on questions of "why". At times he gave me lists of things he needed me to understand were eating at him - and asked me to think about them and bring up those things to talk later. Many I simply avoided; others I talked about once and then dropped them. Overall, my lack of sustained effort was really what seemed to hurt more than any of the actual details or answers.

 

 

More recently (past year) H has brought up the details of the As and apologies much, much less. But the pain of how long it took to get to that point now lingers. He still wants to talk about the affairs, but more now as a means of exploring how I felt about him then and how I feel about him now. Again, I find myself understanding what he needs and agreeing to those needs but not following up with actions (sometimes once or twice or too infrequently). It hurts him that I would come home from work and spend times doing chores (some important, others not so much), talking about work, kid's school activities, and so on - only getting around to asking about how he is feeling or what he is grappling with much later (or only when he finally brings it up). It was a weird combination of not wanting to go there, knowing that I had to go there, but not knowing how to get started. I wanted to show him that I cared, but more often than not the message for him was that this just wasn't a priority for me.

 

 

If he's asking you to go over them again... what's keeping you from doing it? Is it concern for his mental health? Is it fear to feel overwhelmed again? The shame?

 

 

H and I have talked about this quite a lot and I still do not have a good answer. In fact that is what my original thread question is meant to address. It is simply not a safe place for me. I have to tell myself that it is my H who has been feeling horribly unsafe for all these years and that the least I can do is meet him there and be there with him, to help him understand this thing that was beyond all understanding.

[road]

Just clarifying here that I did keep this diary for 20+ years and that my H got to read it 2.5 years ago and a little over a year ago I shredded it.

 

 

 

Just to clarify as well. No WW should of ever wrote that down any where because of the chance for her BH may one day read it.

 

 

No wonder your BH is where he is now.

[Ralph79]

H and I have talked about this quite a lot and I still do not have a good answer. In fact that is what my original thread question is meant to address. It is simply not a safe place for me. I have to tell myself that it is my H who has been feeling horribly unsafe for all these years and that the least I can do is meet him there and be there with him, to help him understand this thing that was beyond all understanding.

 

Even thought I agree with all posters that your husband deserves to have such simple requests fulfilled by you, I'm going to get a bit sidetracked because, I think there's something else at the heart of the issue.

 

I don't think it's healthy to continually bring up details of the most agonizing time in the marriage 20 years ago, on a daily basis. The way you explain your story, it makes it seem as if he's disappointed that you're not the one bringing up the explanations of what happened in those affairs, as a daily topic of discussion, out of the blue.

 

I think there's something that is currently going on in your life, that is preventing him from moving on, or triggering those feelings again. Again, because based on what you are saying, your H will not get peace, no matter how many times you tell him what happened.

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't think it's healthy to continually bring up details of the most agonizing time in the marriage 20 years ago, on a daily basis. The way you explain your story, it makes it seem as if he's disappointed that you're not the one bringing up the explanations of what happened in those affairs, as a daily topic of discussion, out of the blue.

 

I think you're underestimating both the mind's ability to bury difficult things and its need to eventually work them out. Childhood traumas, wartime PTSD, sexual assaults - there are many examples of this.

 

The OP"s husband may be approaching a transition time in his life, for instance thinking about the end of career and subsequent retirement years. He may be deciding both how he wants to spend that time and, more importantly, who he wants to spend it with.

 

Regardless, "daily discussions" are a small price to pay in exchange for having stood by the OP for 20+ years. He's a better - and more forgiving - man than me...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ralph79]

I think you're underestimating both the mind's ability to bury difficult things and its need to eventually work them out. Childhood traumas, wartime PTSD, sexual assaults - there are many examples of this.

 

Well I believe some issues stay with us throughout our lifetimes. I can't imagine anyone ever overcoming the horrors of war to be honest. Ever. We might be able to learn, how to survive living with that pain, but never truly overcoming it. And time alone doesn't always alleviate those types of traumas, I agree with you there.

 

But how can revisiting the source of that trauma that happened 20 years ago, bringing it up on a daily basis for the past 3 years, be a helpful way of "healing"?. I can't help feel that it's ultimately counterproductive to keep reliving that episode in your mind over and over.

 

I do understand that each one of us has their own way of burying or working out our issues, so I could be wrong. It might be healthy for him to do this. Just because he wants to do this though, doesn't mean it's necessarily good for him.

 

But I'm getting a bit off topic. I was just concerned for the Husband's well being.

 

And in regards to

 

Regardless, "daily discussions" are a small price to pay in exchange for having stood by the OP for 20+ years.

 

I agree, and I'll repeat, he deserves such simple requests fulfilled by the OP. Just wondering if these requests were ultimately healthy for him, and if the OP might not be doing more damage to him by complying with them.

[DKT3]

Well I believe some issues stay with us throughout our lifetimes. I can't imagine anyone ever overcoming the horrors of war to be honest. Ever. We might be able to learn, how to survive living with that pain, but never truly overcoming it. And time alone doesn't always alleviate those types of traumas, I agree with you there.

 

But how can revisiting the source of that trauma that happened 20 years ago, bringing it up on a daily basis for the past 3 years, be a helpful way of "healing"?. I can't help feel that it's ultimately counterproductive to keep reliving that episode in your mind over and over.

 

I do understand that each one of us has their own way of burying or working out our issues, so I could be wrong. It might be healthy for him to do this. Just because he wants to do this though, doesn't mean it's necessarily good for him.

 

But I'm getting a bit off topic. I was just concerned for the Husband's well being.

 

And in regards to

 

 

 

I agree, and I'll repeat, he deserves such simple requests fulfilled by the OP. Just wondering if these requests were ultimately healthy for him, and if the OP might not be doing more damage to him by complying with them.

 

The answer is short, he never got it from her. Had she been open and honest 20 years ago this would be just a blimp on what has happened over the past 20 years. So because he never got it from her he built resentment and those question have echoed in his mind for 20 years.

 

My story is an example of that. My wife had an affair a decade ago. I found out and divorced her fairly quick. Things happened and we found ourselves together again and those issues had to be dealt with.

 

Which leads me to another issue. When a wayward spouse does what OP has done, its like building a 5 million dollar home on landmines. Things may seem fine for 5, 10, 15 years then BOOM, it all comes crushing down. Not everyone will voice their fears and dissapointment instead they hide it deep down. Over time it becomes full and comes pouring out.

[Ralph79]

The answer is short, he never got it from her. Had she been open and honest 20 years ago this would be just a blimp on what has happened over the past 20 years. So because he never got it from her he built resentment and those question have echoed in his mind for 20 years.

 

You see, this is the part I don't understand. Didn't she confess both her affairs immediately after they happened? Didn't the PA last only 1 day before she confessed? I mean, it's still cheating, and upon reading further details about the PA, while wasn't intercourse, it's wasn't as innocent as I thought either.

 

Having said that, I think the main problem stemmed from her lack of consideration for her Husbands objections about her continued employment at that workplace with those two AP's. Her complete disregards for his feelings by continuing to work with these people.

 

I believed they moved out of state and then proceeded to build a family together, thus they both ended up sweeping that problem under the rug. However the fact that she returned to that work environment 12 years ago, brought those unresolved issues back into the marriage again.

 

A lot of people would have made an ultimatum: "THAT job, or Our Marriage". But he didn't. And I think what he's feeling now is resentment, not over the affairs that happened 20 years ago, but over the years of selfishness the OP has acted with by not adjusting her desires to accommodate his needs in regards to recovering from that episode that happened long ago.

 

So I'm starting to think the H didn't just blow up 3 years ago, out of nowhere. It was a prorated demolition of his patience throughout their marriage that came to a halt 3 years ago.

 

I'm just trying to understand what the OP must do, to comply with her husbands wishes today. Maybe it's too late.

[road]

The answer is short, he never got it from her. Had she been open and honest 20 years ago this would be just a blimp on what has happened over the past 20 years. So because he never got it from her he built resentment and those question have echoed in his mind for 20 years.

 

My story is an example of that. My wife had an affair a decade ago. I found out and divorced her fairly quick. Things happened and we found ourselves together again and those issues had to be dealt with.

 

Which leads me to another issue. When a wayward spouse does what OP has done, its like building a 5 million dollar home on landmines. Things may seem fine for 5, 10, 15 years then BOOM, it all comes crushing down. Not everyone will voice their fears and dissapointment instead they hide it deep down. Over time it becomes full and comes pouring out.

 

 

 

I have been trickled truthed for 34 years. It has caused problems. Keeping us from being close.

[road]

I have been trickled truthed for 34 years. It has caused problems. Keeping us from being close.

 

 

 

Confessing then rug sweeping.

 

Then second affair.

 

Second confession with second round of rug sweeping.

 

Only allowed twenty years to pass without and healing.

 

This is why the BH can not leave the affair in the past.

[merrmeade]

I find it hard to believe that he would just sail along for 20 years without asking about her affairs. I think its safe to add gaslighting to the long list. Maybe, still some going on.

It's not hard to understand. Happens a lot and there have been many posts lately to this effect. I did it worse than I can even believe now. Found out from the OW herself about an almost ONS. WH put it all on the OW, accused her of setting him up to get her husband back for something. In a few days, I was successfully gaslighted and didn't think about it again until decades later when I found out about all the others, too. It takes a weak mind, heart and personality.

[sandylee1]

That comment in your diary about the door finally being closed after your AP got married, really says it all to me.

 

There is a certain spark you don't feel for your husband. I know it was written years ago, but it really is very telling.

 

I think you don't do the heavy lifting because you simply don't love him enough to do so. Whatever definition of love you have, you just would prefer to push it in the past and because he may now leaves you, you are worried. Looks like you are worried for yourself and what you would loose though, not for him.