Why do I not care enough to do the heavy lifting?

[Ralph79]

A couple of questions I have for you Aspentree:

 

I understand you have been married 30 years and that you had affairs 22, and 20 years ago.

 

And from these quotes:

 

The first was an EA, the second was EA turning PA on D-Day. I confessed to my husband after both of them when they became too intense for me and each time when I felt I had crossed a proverbial line.

 

I admitted that I had feelings for him. That immediately resulted in a day of PA, though short of intercourse.

 

You are telling us that you had an emotional affair with these 2 people, and the latter one turned physical but you didn't have sex. And in both occasions you turned to your husband to confess your affairs in hopes of putting a stop to the mess you got yourself into when things got out of control.

 

Is that correct?

 

[Note, I'm not making any judgments. I just want to see if I read the story correctly].

 

Lastly, I've been read your posts twice. And I see you appreciate the life you have with your husband and kids. I read your statements that you love him. I read that you acknowledge that he is a wonderful man.

 

My last question I hope you think through and not just type a knee-jerk response is:

 

Are you in love with him?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I have been watching to see how this thread plays out. There has been wonderful observations...and advice given. This is a terrific group of folks.

 

I don't quite know how to address all the issues i see here....and God knows I do not have all the answers. I can tell you how I dealt with my own affair thirty one years ago....the things i did wrong and the things I have learned.

 

 

First..if you have not please read this 95 page book.

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf

 

You ask the question... Why do I not care enough to do the heavy lifting? and this is my first clue to what might be going on inside your head.

 

You see...this is NOT about you....You already thought about you...you put yourself above all others when you had your first affair.....

You simply cast aside the affair...just like you cast aside your husbands feelings. You went on with life...never thinking how can i help this man heal from what i have done to him. You remained selfish throughout the past thirty years. Why? Because not once did you humble yourself before him...not once did you ask him what he needed to heal....not once did you think of him. How do I know this? Because you did it again.

 

and not only did you do it again....you made it even worse...it went even further.

 

If you had an inkling of remorse for what you had done...you would never have done it again. You learned nothing from your first affair.

 

you have answered your own question...why don't you care enough? Because you are selfish and only care about you.

 

You need to be on your knees begging for your husbands forgiveness...asking him what he needs from you and be willing to do whatever it is he asks for. Your needs no longer matter. You have neglected his needs your entire married life.

 

I want to help you understand if i can....and i do not want to be mean or cruel....but at this point...i have not heard an ounce of remorse and sometimes it takes a rude awakening to understand exactly what is required of you.If you are not willing to do the heavy lifting....he will never heal...and it is likely you will find yourself in the arms of another man yet again.

 

There is a part of me that thinks...she must want to save her marriage...why else would she have posted this. Rarely do I recommend divorce....but i fear divorcing your husband... walking away asking for nothing...because God knows you don't deserve anything....is the only honorable thing to do.

[JohnAdams]

Mrs. JA and I discussed her above post before she submitted it. I agree with what she has to say. If you do not care enough about your husband and your marriage to do whatever it takes to fix it, then why bother? Even though it took us years to get to where we are, she was always willing to do whatever it took to help me. She would often ask what do you want me to do? What do you need? I must admit, we do not know the answer, but she made an effort. If you are not willing to make the effort, what are you sticking around for?

[Hope Shimmers]

I have been watching to see how this thread plays out. There has been wonderful observations...and advice given. This is a terrific group of folks.

 

I don't quite know how to address all the issues i see here....and God knows I do not have all the answers. I can tell you how I dealt with my own affair thirty one years ago....the things i did wrong and the things I have learned.

 

 

First..if you have not please read this 95 page book.

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf

 

You ask the question... Why do I not care enough to do the heavy lifting? and this is my first clue to what might be going on inside your head.

 

You see...this is NOT about you....You already thought about you...you put yourself above all others when you had your first affair.....

You simply cast aside the affair...just like you cast aside your husbands feelings. You went on with life...never thinking how can i help this man heal from what i have done to him. You remained selfish throughout the past thirty years. Why? Because not once did you humble yourself before him...not once did you ask him what he needed to heal....not once did you think of him. How do I know this? Because you did it again.

 

and not only did you do it again....you made it even worse...it went even further.

 

If you had an inkling of remorse for what you had done...you would never have done it again. You learned nothing from your first affair.

 

you have answered your own question...why don't you care enough? Because you are selfish and only care about you.

 

You need to be on your knees begging for your husbands forgiveness...asking him what he needs from you and be willing to do whatever it is he asks for. Your needs no longer matter. You have neglected his needs your entire married life.

 

I want to help you understand if i can....and i do not want to be mean or cruel....but at this point...i have not heard an ounce of remorse and sometimes it takes a rude awakening to understand exactly what is required of you.If you are not willing to do the heavy lifting....he will never heal...and it is likely you will find yourself in the arms of another man yet again.

 

There is a part of me that thinks...she must want to save her marriage...why else would she have posted this. Rarely do I recommend divorce....but i fear divorcing your husband... walking away asking for nothing...because God knows you don't deserve anything....is the only honorable thing to do.

 

This is a great post.

 

I did think of Mrs John Adams when I read the original post to this thread. The situations are similar in a way, but very different as pointed out by Mrs John Adams in that it only happened once for her.

 

The fact that you, OP, let it happen twice, indicates that you didn't learn anything from the first time. And the fact that you are reluctant to deal with it now, and the statement you made in your last post that insinuated that your H can't "drop things" or forget about them, indicate that not much has changed. Except your desire that this all go away.

[HereNorThere]

A couple of questions I have for you Aspentree:

 

I understand you have been married 30 years and that you had affairs 22, and 20 years ago.

 

And from these quotes:

 

 

 

 

 

You are telling us that you had an emotional affair with these 2 people, and the latter one turned physical but you didn't have sex. And in both occasions you turned to your husband to confess your affairs in hopes of putting a stop to the mess you got yourself into when things got out of control.

 

Is that correct?

 

[Note, I'm not making any judgments. I just want to see if I read the story correctly].

 

Lastly, I've been read your posts twice. And I see you appreciate the life you have with your husband and kids. I read your statements that you love him. I read that you acknowledge that he is a wonderful man.

 

My last question I hope you think through and not just type a knee-jerk response is:

 

Are you in love with him?

 

You actually did read it wrong. The other affair (that she is admitting to) happened recently within the last few years.

[Hope Shimmers]

You actually did read it wrong. The other affair (that she is admitting to) happened recently within the last few years.

 

Unless I read it wrong, I think you are mistaken on that. I think Ralph79 is correct and they happened 20 and 22 years ago.

[Aspentree]

Your husband is a grown man who can make his own decisions. If he doesn't have enough respect for himself to leave you, that's on him. It's sad, but he can't deny that he knows you have a serious problem.

 

Now let's talk about the real victims here, your children. How dare you bring them into this toxic environment of your marriage? Your husband has a choice, they do not. Do you not love them enough to give them a happy home life and set a good example for them? When they find out about all this (and don't worry, they will) how do you plan on explaining how you put their future in jeopardy by pursuing your own selfish wants and desires? Are you going to abandon them as well?

 

The problem you have is a lack of empathy and I think you realize this. You wonder why other people have empathy and respect for others and you do not. Sorry, but no one on this forum can make that diagnosis for you. I can tell you that it is one of the criteria for having a personality disorder. You also have another major red flag of one and that's the turning on and discrediting the therapist. This is one of the reasons why PD's are almost incurable. Truly personality disordered people don't want or believe they need help.

 

If you really want to stop abusing these children, you'll seek real, long term psychiatric help. You may have to go away for a while, but if you can find once single ounce of love in your heart for them, you might be able to do it.

 

Unfortunately, the chances of you getting better are pretty slim to none. Empathy isn't something that completely learned or environmental, it has a major genetic component as well. It may just be that this is who you are and there is no chance of recovery. However, if you print out your post and take it to real psychiatrist, he or she may be able to make a real diagnosis and at the very least, give you the skills you need to quit hurting your loved ones. Even though PD's aren't curable, most therapists do believe that can be managed.

 

Also, get the husband and kids in intensive therapy. They need skills to deal with your illness as well.

 

 

 

Our kids are definitely NOT the victims here. They have had both of our full attention and engagement since they came into this world and we marvel every day at what they have achieved and how passionate they are at what they each love to do and they have not reached adulthood yet. The only thing my H wishes is that we could have recovered from the A before we so fully immersed ourselves in the kids.

 

 

My husband and I have had an amazing life before the affair. We traveled extensively, accomplished things we had dreamed of doing, and had adventures we will treasure for the rest of our lives whether we stay together or not.

 

 

You get it though, I have an issue with empathy and that is what has made this R so painfully long and difficult.

[Ralph79]

You actually did read it wrong. The other affair (that she is admitting to) happened recently within the last few years.

 

Oh ok.

 

Because this fooled me then:

 

I had 2 affairs, the first 22 years ago and the second less than 2 years later.

 

Or was there another. I want to have the story straight.

[Selfish]

In defense (sorta) of the two affairs vs 1. Neither of the affairs had sex. I know many people who had eas will often deny then even as affairs (i disagree). So the problem may be she is actually minimizing what she did in her mind.

 

Ie only "mostly" eas

 

No sex

 

So perhaps she needs to take full responsibility that cheating is cheating and hurtful and damaging whether the hotdog goes in the bun or not. But often a second affair occurs because the first was minimized or justified. So perhaps, the marriage can be saved. If she owns how truly terrible what she did was. Regardles of the no sex. Maybe

[lovinDKT3]

I think the quick answer is you didn't have to. You never faced it because you never thought he would pull the plug on the marriage.

 

As others have pointed out, you expecting him to let it go without having dealt with it show you lack true remorse and maybe only the fear of being alone drives you to action.

 

30 years of this doesn't seem like a way to live. Having your husband in pain for that long and doing very little to ease his pain is very cruel, more so then the affair itself.

 

30 years is long enough, if your still asking these questions its time to let him go. It will be a lose because this man loved you.

[WomenWubber]

"Why do I not care enough to do the heavy lifting?"

 

What made you care about your marriage before the affairs happened?

 

The answer to that question may be what you're lacking right now.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Our kids are definitely NOT the victims here. They have had both of our full attention and engagement since they came into this world and we marvel every day at what they have achieved and how passionate they are at what they each love to do and they have not reached adulthood yet. The only thing my H wishes is that we could have recovered from the A before we so fully immersed ourselves in the kids.

 

 

My husband and I have had an amazing life before the affair. We traveled extensively, accomplished things we had dreamed of doing, and had adventures we will treasure for the rest of our lives whether we stay together or not.

 

 

You get it though, I have an issue with empathy and that is what has made this R so painfully long and difficult.

 

I totally understand this...you were devoted parents...you traveled....you went on with life....and YET...something is missing....and you KNOW that it will require heavy lifting to give him what he needs...and you are not willing to do it.

 

So in other words....life has been good...for you...you have been blessed...and damnit...he is still not satisfied. He wants something more....and you don't want to give it to him..because YOU are happy.

 

What he wants? Remorse...what he needs? Remorse.....what you will receive? forgiveness

 

Now is it worth the heavy lifting?

[HereNorThere]

Unless I read it wrong, I think you are mistaken on that. I think Ralph79 is correct and they happened 20 and 22 years ago.

 

Ahh, it's the comment of "we are in the 3rd year of R" that's throwing me off then. That doesn't make any sense.

[Ralph79]

Ahh, it's the comment of "we are in the 3rd year of R" that's throwing me off then. That doesn't make any sense.

 

That's because 3 years ago the H started openly admitting that he couldn't contain the issues with her affairs any longer. So they entered into a sort of R situation 3 years ago. (I think). That's what I got from it.

[Hope Shimmers]

That's because 3 years ago the H started openly admitting that he couldn't contain the issues with her affairs any longer. So they entered into a sort of R situation 3 years ago. (I think). That's what I got from it.

 

That's correct and now that you mention it HereNorThere, the specific phrase that you quoted caused me to misunderstand it at the start too. It was misleading (not meant by the author, but it was). I forgot about that until now that you mentioned it.

[DKT3]

I find it hard to believe that he would just sail along for 20 years without asking about her affairs. I think its safe to add gaslighting to the long list. Maybe, still some going on.

 

I guess my question would be, with a total lack of remorse why only two affairs? Why did it stop? She never one mentioned guilt or shame. I don't know, something seems off.

[Ralph79]

Ok for the sake of clarity, I'll ask again, and anyone feel free to correct me where I read this wrong:

 

1. OP had 2 Emotional Affairs, 1 got physical but no sex.

2. OP confessed to affairs when things got heated for reasons unknown.

3. OP kept interacting in the environment that was a source of worry for her H without concern for his feelings.

4. 2 Years later they move out of state

5. OP and H start a family and OP has been faithful to husband for 20 years.

6. OP went back to work at old place 12 years ago.

7. H stopped containing his frustration 3 years ago and OP sought therapy for both.

8. H upon reading books realized what he needed. He wanted a sincere show of remorse from OP and clear details of the affairs.

9. All OP has refused to comply with or has done so reluctantly has been sharing precise details of affairs, which is what the H referred to as Heavy Lifting.

(Although I must admit I am puzzled as to why OP would embellish details of the affair that didn't happen according to what she said).

 

Is this in a nutshell what's going on?

[Mrs. John Adams]

yes...something feels off to me too...but i cant quite put my finger on it yet.

[Hope Shimmers]

Ok for the sake of clarity, I'll ask again, and anyone feel free to correct me where I read this wrong:

 

1. OP had 2 Emotional Affairs, 1 got physical but no sex.

2. OP confessed to affairs when things got heated for reasons unknown.

3. OP kept interacting in the environment that was a source of worry for her H without concern for his feelings.

4. 2 Years later they move out of state

5. OP and H start a family and OP has been faithful to husband for 20 years.

6. OP went back to work at old place 12 years ago.

7. H stopped containing his frustration 3 years ago and OP sought therapy for both.

8. H upon reading books realized what he needed. He wanted a sincere show of remorse from OP and clear details of the affairs.

9. All OP has refused to comply with or has done so reluctantly has been sharing precise details of affairs, which is what the H referred to as Heavy Lifting.

(Although I must admit I am puzzled as to why OP would embellish details of the affair that didn't happen according to what she said).

 

Is this in a nutshell what's going on?

 

You didn't read it wrong. This is spot on (from what I read).

[Ralph79]

You didn't read it wrong. This is spot on (from what I read).

 

Alright. In that case,

 

OP, I'll try to give you the constructive advice you asked for:

 

First ask yourself HONESTLY if you are In-Love with your husband. There's a monumental difference between being in-love and loving.

 

If your heart tells you YES then:

 

Sit down with your husband. Hold his hand, and tell him what he wants to know. Detail by Detail. Don't add. Don't subtract. Elaborate on "what if's" if he so chooses. If his reaction, his pain, his sorrow, he shows when you tell him this, doesn't bring sincere tears to your eyes, then you will NEVER be able to give him what he needs.

 

If your heart tells you NO then:

 

Let him go. Believe it or not, we can feel when our significant others love us, but are not in love with us, which would explain a lot to be honest.

 

Anyways, that's my opinion.

[Spark1111]

i do see that you lack empathy but I do not believe that is your major issue.

 

You lack INTIMACY. You avoid conflict, do not truly know WHY you did what you did and have not been willing to introspect WHY it happened in the first place...Do you?

 

and it's never the first go to reasons you may think of, but something much older and deeper than the start of your affair or your marriage.

 

Are YOU in IC? are YOU learning why rug sweeping is so much easier than confronting all that pain you caused your spouse in the past?

 

it is fairly common for us BSs to go crazy until the WS figures out their why for destroying our love, trust, confidence and world view.

 

And it is often not until we again feel very, very safe in the restored relationship that we allow all that rage and pain to come spewing out.

 

You need to care.....humility, remorse, total transparency, empathy, tears....all good.

 

heavy lifting?

 

Lady, you never started.

[thummper]

SORRY FOR NOT PRE-VIEWING THE POST! HERE IT IS AGAIN.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Something that is making things more difficult for him is that 12 years ago I went back to working at the same place where the affairs happened, although in a different department. The APs were still there at the time, but eventually left the employer. But nonetheless just the name of the place has so much negative baggage. But we also have positive memories there, because H and I collaborated on a project at my work place so it isn't all bad.

 

I can't believe I'm seeing this. Seeing what agonies you put your husband through, you actually had the gall to return to the "scene of the crime" so to speak? And with the homewreckers still working there for you to interact with every day while your hubby is sitting at home hoping against hope that you wouldn't rekindle that old spark with them? That one act more than anything else you've said proves how clueless you really were. What amazes me is that he's still with you.

[Aspentree]

Ok for the sake of clarity, I'll ask again, and anyone feel free to correct me where I read this wrong:

 

1. OP had 2 Emotional Affairs, 1 got physical but no sex.

2. OP confessed to affairs when things got heated for reasons unknown.

3. OP kept interacting in the environment that was a source of worry for her H without concern for his feelings.

4. 2 Years later they move out of state

5. OP and H start a family and OP has been faithful to husband for 20 years.

6. OP went back to work at old place 12 years ago.

7. H stopped containing his frustration 3 years ago and OP sought therapy for both.

8. H upon reading books realized what he needed. He wanted a sincere show of remorse from OP and clear details of the affairs.

9. All OP has refused to comply with or has done so reluctantly has been sharing precise details of affairs, which is what the H referred to as Heavy Lifting.

(Although I must admit I am puzzled as to why OP would embellish details of the affair that didn't happen according to what she said).

 

Is this in a nutshell what's going on?

 

 

 

You got 1. through 7. exactly right.

 

 

3 years ago H met a woman who he shared some of his troubles with and she was a very caring listener. This caused him to think, why am I not talking to my wife like this? Why can't I share feelings about this stuff with the person I should be closest to? So he came to me and said that he wanted to talk about what happened 20 years ago. I responded and told him everything I could remember, especially what had gone on physically (hugging, kissing, and me giving the guy a hand job), but there were some inconsistencies in how I described over several days exactly how things happened and I remember that was very painful for both H and myself. As I was revealing all these details I was overwhelmed at what I had done and was unable for a while to tell him that I would love him forever. And he desperately needed to hear just that. It was a very hard year that followed.

[Ralph79]

there were some inconsistencies in how I described over several days exactly how things happened and I remember that was very painful for both H and myself. As I was revealing all these details I was overwhelmed at what I had done and was unable for a while to tell him that I would love him forever. And he desperately needed to hear just that. It was a very hard year that followed.

 

You do understand that the pain you felt at the moment you were telling him everything, was a sampling of what he carried within himself for 20 years right?

 

Life gave you a chance to atone, and you couldn't handle a fraction what he had to endure for years.

 

I honestly see no point in rubbing your past mistakes in your face, but I do want to point them out in case you have overlooked them.

 

And for the 3rd time I will ask you

 

Are you honestly IN LOVE with him?

[Aspentree]

I have been watching to see how this thread plays out. There has been wonderful observations...and advice given. This is a terrific group of folks.

 

I don't quite know how to address all the issues i see here....and God knows I do not have all the answers. I can tell you how I dealt with my own affair thirty one years ago....the things i did wrong and the things I have learned.

 

 

First..if you have not please read this 95 page book.

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf

 

You ask the question... Why do I not care enough to do the heavy lifting? and this is my first clue to what might be going on inside your head.

 

You see...this is NOT about you....You already thought about you...you put yourself above all others when you had your first affair.....

You simply cast aside the affair...just like you cast aside your husbands feelings. You went on with life...never thinking how can i help this man heal from what i have done to him. You remained selfish throughout the past thirty years. Why? Because not once did you humble yourself before him...not once did you ask him what he needed to heal....not once did you think of him. How do I know this? Because you did it again.

 

and not only did you do it again....you made it even worse...it went even further.

 

If you had an inkling of remorse for what you had done...you would never have done it again. You learned nothing from your first affair.

 

you have answered your own question...why don't you care enough? Because you are selfish and only care about you.

 

You need to be on your knees begging for your husbands forgiveness...asking him what he needs from you and be willing to do whatever it is he asks for. Your needs no longer matter. You have neglected his needs your entire married life.

 

I want to help you understand if i can....and i do not want to be mean or cruel....but at this point...i have not heard an ounce of remorse and sometimes it takes a rude awakening to understand exactly what is required of you.If you are not willing to do the heavy lifting....he will never heal...and it is likely you will find yourself in the arms of another man yet again.

 

There is a part of me that thinks...she must want to save her marriage...why else would she have posted this. Rarely do I recommend divorce....but i fear divorcing your husband... walking away asking for nothing...because God knows you don't deserve anything....is the only honorable thing to do.

 

 

 

Indeed, I had not learned much about why affairs happen when AP#2 came along. I do remember shame and being sorry, but I had no idea of the toxic ingredients for an affair, such as some deep seated resentments, constant exposure to the AP, constant bombardment with compliments and in only a few months time it struck me a second time.

 

 

We went to MC right after affair #2, but therapist really did not make things very clear to me, how much I owed my H, how much he was hurting and what I had to do.

 

 

Over the next 10 years H would occasionally ask about A, but I would just brush it aside with "oh you don't need to worry about that anymore" and he would stop. Even though our life seemed good, there was that thing that kept us from being able to be intimate, to share what bothered him.

 

 

Looking back I can hardly believe how cruel and how ignorant I was.

 

 

In the last 3 years I have been aware of all this, have revealed everything I knew including the diary I kept during the 2 years following D-Day of A#2. Still I did not deliver when he wanted to hear from me on a daily basis. I would ask how he was, but he needed apologies, insights, and true reflection. Slowly I have been getting better at this, but it kills him every time I act like I forgot the whole thing.