autumnnight Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Leave it to a wayward to believe/state your above statement. This contributes zero to a discussion, especially since the "wayward" has not been wayward for a very long time. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Not only is it a tough read...it is a tough live.... Living with yourself...knowing what you did...pretending that you didnt....it is all a lie.... fearing that the decisions you made will destroy everything you ever wanted...and for what! My husband is a very special man. He has loved me from the day he said he did....he is straightforward and honest. He is not controlled by emotion. If he said it...he meant it....if he commits...he gives it everything he has. our success in this reconciliation is because of him...not me. He NEVER gave up on me. I did...I gave up on me, i gave up on our marriage, I gave up on my God. Men like him are few and far between...i was lucky....I hit the jackpot. It does sound like you and your H are very lucky indeed. In fact, I think that in a lot of ways, it really does boil down to hitting the jackpot. A WS can be remorseful, can do everything right and actually mean it, can truly change, can work hard, can be patient with no expectations.....the one they cannot do is to make the BS care about and respect them again. That is something a BS will either do or not do. It sounds like your husband has the stuff to be able to do that. I can read that in the way he posts about you. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thank you autumn....you are very right. I give him all the credit. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thank you autumn....you are very right. I give him all the credit. Oh no, I didn't mean it that way. What you did in confessing, changing, and still wanting to find that missing piece for all those years is admirable. I am one of those who believes in redemption. I believe people can change. I believe good people can go through a time of making horrible choices and can turn it around. I used to believe a lot of people thought like me. I am saddened to realize how few people do, and how many people are willing to toss a person into the unredeemable trash heap. I have been horrible horribly hurt by several people I love. When they wanted to heal the relationship, it never occurred to me that they had no hope but to be awful and stained for the rest of their lives. Probably because I understand that there but for the grace of God go I, I don't know. I did not necessarily reconcile with a couple of these people, as the damage was too great, but I did at least find peace. And believe me, I am NOT special. I am HIGHLY flawed. I hope you do not think I was discounting your hard work and change. I just believe that if both parties cannot work, it cannot work. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I did not think you were saying i did not do the work...no no no! I knew what you meant and i agree with you. I have done my share...I know that....but it was because of me and the choices i made that we found ourselves in this position in the first place. He on the other hand did nothing to deserve what i did to him....NOTHING Link to post Share on other sites
Josmatjes Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Where do I get this book? And what is the name and author? Thank you Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf How to help your spouse heal from your affair Link to post Share on other sites
Hope Shimmers Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) This story is written from MY perspective not my husbands. I have been as honest as i possibly can. ... We have finally crossed the last hurdle to complete forgiveness. We are in the best place in our relationship that we have ever been. Mrs John Adams - you seem like a very nice person and clearly you love your H. But I wanted to put my reaction out there. Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way after reading your posts and your H's posts (and that's perfectly fine) but here is my perspective. When I first read the summary of the A from your H ("Basically she had sex with a college professor once and that was it"), my initial feeling - given the grief he has clearly gone through since he is still thinking about this 30+ years later (ouch!!!) - was that if it was truly a terrible one-time mistake then perhaps you should have just not told him at all. (Keep in mind this was just my opinion, for what it's worth). There was another poster on this thread, a BS, who said she wished she was never told. I do know many others feel this way. There is some validity to that for some people. But then, when you posted your story of the A - to be very honest, I didn't get the impression that it was just a split-second mistake, emotions having run wild in an isolated instance, etc. In fact, you said (and told your H) that you would have moved in with this man! Huh?!? And you were defensive about it, EVEN AFTER this professor treated you like absolute crap. Why? Something just doesn't add up for me with this story. You also said that you wanted to meet up with him after the fact, but he cancelled. Why would you possibly want to see him again if the whole thing was a single, never-to-be-repeated mistake? So basically you and your husband just went forward and "rode it out" and kind of rug-swept everything for decades. I don't see that as anywhere near the same thing as a one-time sleeping with someone and then regretting it terribly. It makes me wonder WHY you confessed, after all. After reading your post describing the affair, I actually changed my mind and decided that it was good and proper that your H knew - because if I were him, I would have left you. I'm sorry, but I would have. You both say that it does no good to look at "what ifs". Shoulda, coulda, woulda.... But, I'm not so sure that's true. The "what ifs" may hold the clue to WHY the affair with this professor went no further. Certainly I get the impression that if this professor had completely overwhelmed you with affection and emotion and wanted to have an ongoing affair with you, I think (at least based on what you said) that you would have. (Again, just my opinion, and I truly don't mean to beat you up - just give my reaction to what you said). The reasons make all the difference. If he had moved to Africa and that was the reason it ended, wouldn't that be different than if it ended for some self-initiated reason? Instead it seems that it ended because he wasn't willing to move forward. As for how you feel about H now, of course... you have to be in your 60s? Of course you would feel much differently about your marriage at that age and stage in life than when you were in your 20s or 30s. Of course you would want to keep the status quo, your companion and husband. You are in a completely different stage in your life. I have to say that if I were your H, I would not forgive it - not then or now. Because I believe it says something about a person that they could sleep with a virtual stranger, then have an ongoing need to defend it and continue to desire it - if only the virtual stranger had reciprocated. It doesn't mean much that you are where you are because he DIDN'T reciprocate it. Again, I don't mean to be mean - you seem like a nice person and you clearly believe what you say and are devoted to your husband now. I just had to give my own personal thoughts on this, for what they are worth. (Maybe not even $.02). I do wish you and your H the best, because I do believe -as others have said - that what works for some people does not necessarily work for others. If it works for your H and he is TRULY happy, then that's great! Edited January 30, 2015 by Hope Shimmers Link to post Share on other sites
Hope Shimmers Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Time to start this thread instead of hi-jacking the other one. I can read the book/paper referred to by the new couple, and I will, but I want to know what parts of it actually worked for them. I can't find your post now, but I remember reading that you said you are content staying with your ex-WW because you want "companionship" and someone to help raise your grandchild. Is that a good enough reason to stay, even now? I don't think so, because you sound extremely unhappy. You can find those things and much, much more with others. There are good women out there (including myself) who are looking for good men and who won't cheat. You have only one life. Why are you not doing what you want with it? YOU were the one who was betrayed - why are you still the one suffering for that? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Contentment with companionship, satisfaction with the status quo, and the continued commitment to a partner who has 'fallen from grace' suggests that there is still significant love in the relationship. It may not be the love they thought they were signing up for initially, but there is still enough love in the bank after all these years to keep the family together. They are sharing their laughter and joy, and their disappointments and hardships as a united family. Ultimately, this is love. Link to post Share on other sites
Mal78 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 That's because I did not post. And I know you did not know. It is ok....really it is. I assume sometimes too. We all make mistakes....some of us bigger ones than others. So was your H's A a RA? Again, I appoligise that I assumed you didn't have any real perspective as a BS. Has it been long since his A, have you healed quicker then he did from yours (30 years)? I can relate somewhat, it's been 20 years and I still try to heal. However, never did I feel I should do the same thing to him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author drifter777 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 I can't find your post now, but I remember reading that you said you are content staying with your ex-WW because you want "companionship" and someone to help raise your grandchild. Is that a good enough reason to stay, even now? I don't think so, because you sound extremely unhappy. You can find those things and much, much more with others. There are good women out there (including myself) who are looking for good men and who won't cheat. You have only one life. Why are you not doing what you want with it? YOU were the one who was betrayed - why are you still the one suffering for that? Yeah - raising my grandson is a good enough reason to stay. Knowing I am giving him love and security is more important then my desire to even the score. The time for me to pursue a new life has passed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Of course not answering for Mrs. J. I both agree and disagree with you here. My WW had a full fledged ongoing thing for a divorced BH colleague. Not a "one lunch stand". She was pretty much hooked into this LTR - her emotions were attached to him long enough to make it a serious threat to our staying married. On DDay, like many here, things changed. But her reasons for staying then, and her reasons for staying 2 weeks later, and her reasons for staying 6 months down, and her reasons for staying 18 months now, are changing, and developing. So if I was of the mentality of "dealbreaker" we would have been divorced from go. If i woulda known her true reasons for bailing on her AP I woulda not continued. But later, when it became clearer to me the reasons, those reasons were no longer the reasons on that day she wanted to stay. In my case my WW's AP didn't have a trip to Africa planned, didn't have a date after sex with my spouse. He was consciously but quietly trying to get my wife to leave her marriage for him. Just like his exWW had done to him 2 years earlier. But what HE WANTED from my WW is not my CONCERN. The only concern I need to have is what I want, and secondly, what she wants from him or from me. And that is precisely what changed over the weeks following DDAY. So I would put a rider on the shoulda woulda coulda to say that there is no POINT at which we can put a finger and say, there, that is the point. People speak of affair fog, but we should also recongnize that the fallout from the nuclear bomb dropped on a marriage that is DDAY renders all involved in a stunned dazed and confused state and it is only later, when people return to normal state that they can realistically assess the damages and think again as they would like to see themselves. People here make a big deal about how a WS does a 180 and "throws the AP under the bus", as though something magical has happened. A change of state. Im not convinced it really is a change of mind or position, or state. Throwing the AP under the bus is an act, nothing more, and I mean that in both senses of the word. Oh yeah, for sure, later, after some affair deprogramming throwing the AP under the bus was the RIGHT CHOICE TO MAKE, but there is a difference between making the RIGHT CHOICE for the RIGHT REASONS and the RIGHT CHOICE for the WRONG REASONS and the RIGHT CHOICE for NO REAL REASONS other than continuing to play the game of betrayal. Betrayal merely continues when the AP is tossed away like a head of dead lettuce. Betrayal continues, it's only that its objects have changed. This is no different than being "in love" with your Spouse one day, inviting your colleague into your office for a passionate kiss the next, and then later going out with your H for an anniversay dinner, as my WW did to me. It's all betrayal. Even on DDay. It's just more betrayal. You both say that it does no good to look at "what ifs". Shoulda, coulda, woulda.... But, I'm not so sure that's true. The "what ifs" may hold the clue to WHY the affair with this professor went no further. Certainly I get the impression that if this professor had completely overwhelmed you with affection and emotion and wanted to have an ongoing affair with you, I think (at least based on what you said) that you would have. (Again, just my opinion, and I truly don't mean to beat you up - just give my reaction to what you said). The reasons make all the difference. If he had moved to Africa and that was the reason it ended, wouldn't that be different than if it ended for some self-initiated reason? Instead it seems that it ended because he wasn't willing to move forward. I have to say that if I were your H, I would not forgive it - not then or now. Because I believe it says something about a person that they could sleep with a virtual stranger, then have an ongoing need to defend it and continue to desire it - if only the virtual stranger had reciprocated. It doesn't mean much that you are where you are because he DIDN'T reciprocate it. Edited January 30, 2015 by fellini 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 So was your H's A a RA? Again, I appoligise that I assumed you didn't have any real perspective as a BS. Has it been long since his A, have you healed quicker then he did from yours (30 years)? I can relate somewhat, it's been 20 years and I still try to heal. However, never did I feel I should do the same thing to him. His RA was in the summer of 85 after my affair was in oct 83. But i would like to clarify...he did not have sex with her...however they did "date" a few times. His whole purpose was to prove to himself he was desirable...because i had destroyed him. did it hurt? of course it did...but i always felt like i deserved it...and i always knew he loved me and i understood...because i had been there. So yes..i got over it quickly....I forgave him immediately and i rarely spoke of it again. Even now i hesitate because i feel like i am throwing him under the bus. He KNOWS what he did was wrong and he deeply regrets it. He wrote about this here http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/511894-does-bs-wish-they-had-divorced-their-ws-5-10-20-years-later-12.html Link to post Share on other sites
Mal78 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) That's because I did not post. And I know you did not know. It is ok....really it is. I assume sometimes too. We all make mistakes....some of us bigger ones I accidentally reposted the same question. I appoligise. Edited January 30, 2015 by Mal78 repeated post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal78 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 His RA was in the summer of 85 after my affair was in oct 83. But i would like to clarify...he did not have sex with her...however they did "date" a few times. His whole purpose was to prove to himself he was desirable...because i had destroyed him. did it hurt? of course it did...but i always felt like i deserved it...and i always knew he loved me and i understood...because i had been there. So yes..i got over it quickly....I forgave him immediately and i rarely spoke of it again. Even now i hesitate because i feel like i am throwing him under the bus. He KNOWS what he did was wrong and he deeply regrets it. He wrote about this here http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/511894-does-bs-wish-they-had-divorced-their-ws-5-10-20-years-later-12.html RAs seem to be almost as damaging. You are trying to be on the path of healing and R then BOOM! 2 step forward, 3 steps back. No one deserves infidelity. Two wrongs don't make a right. It's nice that you healed/recovered quickly, do you think it took your H longer because with your A sex was involved? It sound like your relationship was in turmoil for far too long! Perhaps you both feel comfort in that you've endured and overcome, that your M has survived. I really want to be there one day. I'm here because I still am healing. I like stories that are inspiring, however I'm very discouraged that I may never fully heal. Sure we function and at this point we have a really good M but although I don't questions my husband's fidelity to me...ever... I am constantly question his wanting to be with me. That he is missing something being with me. That he has never been "in love" with me. That his infidelity consisted of spontaneous passion and this is something he has always failed at. So I have felt I've never given him that desire. My H is a good man. He is honest to a fault and he is a firm believer of family and the family unit. We have 5 children, we've been parents since high school but it took him a long time to settle into the role of Husband and father as all his friends were single/childless up until 5 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites
katielee Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Mrs. JA - I'm glad you posted. I had an affair first and my husband had an affair (two actually) for the same reasons your husband did. He dated behind my back. Because he didn't know if I actually wanted to be married to him. Thing is, I could have forgiven one affair I think, I have. I understand how he got to that point. But I can't understand why he had to do it twice. And that has been very very hard to recover from. I didn't deserve either, I did NOT get over it quickly. But I did UNDERSTAND one. When I ask him why two he said he just wasn't ready and that he wasn't thinking straight after I did what I did. He's sorry. But a LOT of damage has been done. thanks for sharing your story. Edited January 30, 2015 by katielee added a phrase. Link to post Share on other sites
JohnAdams Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Mrs. JA - I'm glad you posted. I had an affair first and my husband had an affair (two actually) for the same reasons your husband did. He dated behind my back. Because he didn't know if I actually wanted to be married to him. Thing is, I could have forgiven one affair I think, I have. I understand how he got to that point. But I can't understand why he had to do it twice. And that has been very very hard to recover from. I didn't deserve either, I did NOT get over it quickly. But I did UNDERSTAND one. When I ask him why two he said he just wasn't ready and that he wasn't thinking straight after I did what I did. He's sorry. But a LOT of damage has been done. thanks for sharing your story. Katielee. A revenge affair is always wrong. I was very wrong. I am sorry you are living with infidility on both sides just as we are. I will try to give some perspective on my RA which may give some insight into your husbands. What I offer is not excuses. First, I do think an affair causes extreme trauma, male or female, and I do believe there is a lot of truth to the PTSD theory with affairs. The trauma of an affair and a symptom of PTSD is to relive the trauma over and over in your head. This would be the mind movies. The more detail you have the more vivid the movies. I had a regular porn playing in my head, and I found it sickening. I had the "it just happened", he was so good looking, he was exciting, playing in my head constantly. All of a sudden, you feel like a boring nerd that could not get anyone anyway. She has proven now she can land the jock. So, her life can return to normal while I feel like a defeated piece of Sh-t. So in my irrational, male-ego driven state of mind, wanted to see if I was desirable, if another woman could be attracted to me. If my wife had another affair, it would not be a complete surprise attack, I would know how to survive. These are not excuses it is poor judgement and terrible personal boundaries. One of the things I told my wife after her affair was that I did not like the person I had become. Pre-affair, I was stable, self confident, did not need the approval of others, did not care if I was good looking or not, I felt very comfortable in my own skin. All that was blown up on D day. How long it takes a person to return to their formal self if ever is hard to say. I am not justifying what your husband did, but, unfortunately I think I understand. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
katielee Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 thank you for responding. I understand as well, but as I said I don't understand two. I'm guessing that is exactly what he felt, with a side of anger and justification thrown in. I have PTSD from his affairs, one right after the other, and catching him on top of OW2. But I have no right to do any acting out, as he did not. But what to do now? I don't know. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Mal.... Speculating never gets us anywhere...but I believe....even now...if he had a sexual affair...I would stay. His RA was not innocent...they just did not have intercourse.... Maybe I should explain the kind of person I am. I have had disappointment in my life. ( I have been sexually molested by three family members) I am a very emotionally driven person. My husband calls me fickle.... The point is...the things that hurt me...I am able to bury and move past. They come back as reminders now and then...but I don't dwell on them. My husband on the other hand is very analytical. He thinks about everything. So our personality types... Is a good measure of how we process. His RA was very calculated and controlled. One of the things I said to him after my affair was...I couldn't stop. Once the OM started kissing me...I could not stop. John took great pride in being able to get all hot and bothered and still control himself. He stopped short of intercourse. It was to prove a point to me. He succeeded. I believe you will heal...will it be the same as before...no. But if everything falls into place..I can tell you...it can be wonderfully good...in some ways even better. You cannot recapture the innocence lost...but you can appreciate what you have even more than you did before...because now you know what it feels like to have almost lost it. I never take for granted my relationship with John. I have a much deeper appreciation for him ....for who he is...because I nearly lost him. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Katie...I am glad John gave you his perspective...maybe it will help you see where your husband is coming from. I processed his RA very quickly...because I avoided it for the most part. It sounds like you did not. I have a couple of triggers..one is when they dated he took her for ice cream and got chocolate chip. To this day...if I hear him order chocolate chip ice cream...I panic. A dear friend of mine on another site...EI....calls her the ice cream lady....lol leave it to EI to make me smile at a horrible memory! The other trigger is...ice cream lady ( who's name is the same as mine by the way) wrote on his school notebook....I love your smile. I saw it.....I can still see it in my mind. She drew a happy face beneath it. I love his smile too....I don't tell him very often....but it is an amazing smile. So....it certainly proved to the both of us...that he is desirable.... Did it help? You would have to ask him. No one deserves to be cheated on....even cheaters. But if ever it was understandable....this is a time. Katie....I understand....and if there is a time you just need to talk....I will be here for you. I am a good listener and a great cryer! Link to post Share on other sites
katielee Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thank you Mrs!!!!.. As I said, I understand one affair. I have processed a LOT! Read a LOT! Healed a LOT! I only have one big trigger and that is seeing either of these women. They both live here. I have a flight/fight reaction and I'm about done putting my healthy in jeopardy. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thankfully...I have never had to deal with seeing the ow...and if I did..I would probably attack her...lol John has also never had to deal with the OM. When I say there has been no contact...I mean it. Link to post Share on other sites
katielee Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I tried to PM you but that feature is not enabled on your account? I hate to t/j this entire thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I don't know how many posts I have to have before they enable that feature for me. Link to post Share on other sites
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