Around when do women start looking for potential husbands?

[dichotomy]

The answer is age 5. That's when my daughter laying on the bed, after a Disney princess movie... moaned sadly "why aren't I married yet ?!!!!". That's when I told her "your a little over the hill honey, you should have been asking this question when you were 4, all the good boys are taken now".

 

Yes this happened.

[verhrzn]

Facial attractiveness counts for a lot. Someone wouldn't flat out tell you that you're facially unattractive. Most girls aren't that bold against someone's who's 6'2' and looks like he chops down trees for fun.

 

Oh, so no girl has actually told you this. You were able to deduce it through your mind-reading powers.

 

You be surprised though what girls do when they're attracted to a guy. I witness it happen all the time with my friends.

 

You won't hear me disagreeing that girls act in a certain way when attracted to a guy. What I'm arguing is that you have no way of knowing that it's your face they're not attracted to.

 

Yeah, I found this entire thing to be very, very, very offensive.

 

Wait, you mean making broad, sweeping generalizations about a person's character and motivations is offensive? Like, for example, saying that any woman who wants to get married after a certain age is obviously materialistic, looking for a "safe" option, and spent her 20's being all slutty with other guys instead of the "I deserve it more" safe ones? Quelle surprise.

 

I try. You are implying I am one of these guys. That couldn't be further from the truth. I have many friends in different circles. I know a lot of girls too. All the girls are either taken, actively hooking up in an FWB or similiar, not looking, or not on my radar due to personality issues. I am social because I am a social being and because I want to network, not to get laid.

 

So are you going to places that have actual single women, approaching them and asking them on dates? If no, then you are pretty much exactly what I described, are you not?

 

Under the Radar was on the mark. These guys excite, I don't. Whether it be physically, emotionally, etc. Girls are addicted to these kinds of guys. They never forget them. When a type of girl does settle down, it's like she's saying "not the best, but good enough".

 

If that is true (and I doubt it is), then why are you focusing all of your energy on that "type" of girl? Shouldn't you then own the fact that you want a certain type of girl-that you have just as much power to find someone who wouldn't be settling for you (perhaps because she has always enjoyed safe, stable guys and prefers marriage over hookups) but you are choosing not to because you yourself want a player lifestyle, but are unwilling to change to become who those types of girls are attracted to?

[Toodaloo]

The answer is age 5. That's when my daughter laying on the bed, after a Disney princess movie... moaned sadly "why aren't I married yet ?!!!!". That's when I told her "your a little over the hill honey, you should have been asking this question when you were 4, all the good boys are taken now".

 

Yes this happened.

 

That is so sweet.

[verhrzn]

No, what the "unsafe" guys have that we want is the key to the attraction mystery, to be able to draw women's involuntary attention with sex at the forefront. And the OP is worried that he's not going to experience that -- to the point of intentional deception -- with a woman whose primary interest in him is for an LTR. I think the discussion has established that intentional deception or manipulation is highly unlikely if he has any awareness about the issue. However, I'm not convinced that the "safe" guy can really be as desirable in a physical sense as the "unsafe" guy -- it's a shame that you have to emotionally detach to be more successful at attracting women's emotions.

 

This is exactly like I said: you gotta use whaca got to get just whaca need. Successful guys are successful because they know what they offer, and they know what type of women goes after them.

 

Take your "emotionally detach." Well no freaking duh you have to emotionally detach if you want the kind of player lifestyle these "unsafe" guys experience. Emotions are for love and LTRs. No girl is interested in having a fun, sexy fling with a guy who needs her to be his therapist or lets emotions mix up the picture.

 

It is not about "safe" and "unsafe." It is about making sure what "vibe" you give out makes what sort of person/experience you want. The only thing that distinguishes the "safe" guys I've seen is that they put out a vibe of "I am such a wounded puppy dog, won't someone take pity on me and give me love?" That's something a girlfriend might be willing to do if the guy has other good qualities; a FWB or a fling? No freaking way.

[BlueIris]

I agree completely with verhrzn, CALovely etc.

 

 

Some things seem backwards. It seems to me that almost all the guys who've struggled to attract women and post on LS about it would consider themselves to fall much more in line with the "safe" man model rather than the "unsafe" one. If the "safe" men are superior, why are they the ones that can't get dates?

 

But to continue the safe/unsafe generalities…. Many of these unsuccessful guys say or think they’re “safe” but obviously aren’t. At least it’s obvious to lots of women they aren’t. The way they view, think and talk about women reveals that, plain as day. On top of their negative disrespectful views of women, they’re often arrogant or dismissive when it’s pointed out that their attitude stinks and that’s their problem. All of that makes them “unsafe” too- bad partner material.

 

Ironically, they often seem to want a woman who is sincerely reliable, loyal, protective, respectful, loving- safe- while believing that wanting quantity and unilateral choice are right or best, and that faking it is right or best - “the game,” “play the numbers,” etc. I mean, really, some of them are so cynical, arrogant and negative about women even while insisting they’re safe and good guys it’s mind-boggling!

 

The solution ought to be clear to the unsuccessful men- if you’re sincerely all of those things and make efforts to connect to people and sincerely treat them well, you will have greater success. At least the fakers acknowledge what many or most women want - so they fake being caring, interested, reliable, loyal, protective, respectful, loving. Many of the unsuccessful guys won't even acknowledge that it's what most women want, or take offense at being viewed as "safe."

[GoodOnPaper]

This is exactly like I said: you gotta use whaca got to get just whaca need. Successful guys are successful because they know what they offer, and they know what type of women goes after them.

 

Take your "emotionally detach." Well no freaking duh you have to emotionally detach if you want the kind of player lifestyle these "unsafe" guys experience. Emotions are for love and LTRs. No girl is interested in having a fun, sexy fling with a guy who needs her to be his therapist or lets emotions mix up the picture.

 

So it seems that no matter what, a guy going the LTR/marriage route can't reach the "unsafe"-guy level of physical satisfaction if he wasn't able to attract women for short term flings in the first place. That's what's frustrating -- and probably why the OP is nervous about being duped.

[verhrzn]

So it seems that no matter what, a guy going the LTR/marriage route can't reach the "unsafe"-guy level of physical satisfaction if he wasn't able to attract women for short term flings in the first place. That's what's frustrating -- and probably why the OP is nervous about being duped.

 

I have no idea what you're saying here. He can absolutely reach that level of physical satisfaction in an LTR/marriage route. It's just going to be wrapped up in the LTR/marriage/emotions route. In fact, there are plenty of ladies who would see a situation of sex + emotional intimacy as way more desirable than just straight up sex (I'm one of them.)

 

What a "safe" guy is never going to be able to achieve is a wild, player lifestyle where he has random sex with lots of ladies. To do this, he has to embrace all of being a player. Like I outlined in my previous post, he'd need to purge himself of emotions, set out seeing life as a numbers game, and approach a lot.

 

It's a mindset and a vibe, a set of behaviors and beliefs, that separate "safe" from "unsafe" guys.

 

But that has nothing to do with sexual satisfaction within a long-term relationship. That's also what I meant about bitter/unsuccessful guys not being able to realize what they have to offer, and not being able to pick out the types of girls who are attracted to them. For a gal like me, a "safe" guy (if we're going to say that "safe" is stable, mature, emotionally grown up) will always be far sexier and more attractive than a player, "unsafe" guy.

[ThaWholigan]

So it seems that no matter what, a guy going the LTR/marriage route can't reach the "unsafe"-guy level of physical satisfaction if he wasn't able to attract women for short term flings in the first place. That's what's frustrating -- and probably why the OP is nervous about being duped.

 

This is another misconception that I've seen parroted a lot. They're not mutually exclusive in my experience and observation. We won't all be physical specimens of magnificence that women fall over trying to screw, but as long as you take care of yourself and you're not boring to that particular girl, she'll want to f-ck you.

 

I managed to get 2 girls into casual flings, and I'm not a player, or a model nor am I "unsafe". But I at least tried not to be boring. I used my words, I was more bold physically and sexually, and I was positive. "Unsafe" guys don't have the monopoly on excitement and incitement you know! Once again, you've written your own fate.

 

OP's worries will be manifested into reality if he keeps telling himself that he won't get the sexual experiences he wants or the relationships he desires.

 

You're married IIRC. Honestly I'd rather have your marriage than a string of FWBs

Edited January 23, 2015 by ThaWholigan

[Got it]

You don't get the milk for free if you commit to a girl. You are buying the cow with commitment, marriage is an extension of that. Yeah, you can "sell" the cow at any time but you still have to go through the trouble of "buying" the cow.

 

And yes, I bought into the lie that college was just one big free for all where promiscuous girls just throw themselves at you. I didn't even know most women won't even make the slightest move. It's also extremely hard to recognize signs of interest. I don't even know if I've ever gotten a sign of interest.

 

Sexual history is something that's irrelevant to ask as people can easily lie or omit details. The reason I wouldn't want a girl that's "been around the block" is because she can easily have a one-up on me. You think I want to be her first when she's been with like 10 other guys? Inevitably at least one of them has been better at sex than me. You think I want to be doing my best while she's lying there thinking about another guy?

 

I'm just trying to not screw up my future for dissatisfaction, that is why I am concerned about this.

 

Do you see women as unique individual humans or replaceable objects? I think that differentiation is the most important. Because your post does not show to respect them as special, unique human beings.

[NJ123]

A lot of women are looking for a long term relationship and marriage now. That doesn't mean they are out of their wild years or that they will pick a caring and stable man. In general women mellow out as they get older and stop chasing the bad boys and the drama. Some slow down after having kids and want a good man. Some never stop the insanity.

 

If you don't want to get used maintain smart boundries. Learn about the women as a person before committing longterm.

 

Yeah, but at the same time some women tend to lie about their past so sometimes you'll never even know what type of person they are until later on.

[NJ123]

I agree. Not saying there is anything wrong with a woman who had wild years because I have had them myself but nothing worse than being the settle guy. Only marry a woman if you know she is head over heels for you.

 

This is why I think it's important to know about a woman's sexual past. I don't care what anyone says, it's very important to know to see if you have the same values as them. No one wants to be with a woman that's slept around a lot, if you haven't yourself & don't believe in doing that.

[Imajerk17]

This thread seems to be a classic example of analysis/paralysis, which is unfortunately all too common on forums such as these.

 

OP, you are concerning yourself about how your hypothetical marriage to some woman you (probably) have not even met yet, is going to go, while you've hardly gone on any first dates. Do you see how out of order this is?

 

This is what you should be doing: STOP reading these "Alpha Bad Boys vs Beta Good Guys" debates, as this just won't help you. START putting effort into meeting women yourself be it online, social circle, bars, or cold-approach. Start putting yourself out there, sowing your own wild oats and getting some of YOUR OWN experience. THEN you can start asking for feedback. That is how you get comfortable with and learn about women.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Imajerk17

[Got it]

This thread seems to be a classic example of analysis/paralysis, which is unfortunately all too common on forums such as these.

 

OP, you are concerning yourself about how your hypothetical marriage to some woman you (probably) have not even met yet, is going to go, while you've hardly gone on any first dates. Do you see how out of order this is?

 

This is what you should be doing: STOP reading these "Alpha Bad Boys vs Beta Good Guys" debates, as this just won't help you. START putting effort into meeting women yourself be it online, social circle, bars, or cold-approach. Start putting yourself out there, sowing your own wild oats and getting some of YOUR OWN experience. THEN you can start asking for feedback. That is how you get comfortable with and learn about women.

 

OMG, can we like something a thousand times! This exactly!

[Woggle]

This is why I think it's important to know about a woman's sexual past. I don't care what anyone says, it's very important to know to see if you have the same values as them. No one wants to be with a woman that's slept around a lot, if you haven't yourself & don't believe in doing that.

 

Sleeping around doesn't always mean a woman will make a bad wife. I know that is not a popular view amongst guys and I understand where it comes from but better to have a woman who experienced the wild life and realizes it is not all it is cracked up to me than a virgin who gets GIGs and wants to experience other men after a mid life crisis. I see that more than anything.

[Camaro Guy]

Oh, so no girl has actually told you this. You were able to deduce it through your mind-reading powers.

 

I saw your little thread a little ways down about how you want guys to only have eyes for you while not being the most physically attractive yourself. Now I see why you were trying to come so hard at me. I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously because I realize there's a large bias at work.

 

Yeah, but at the same time some women tend to lie about their past so sometimes you'll never even know what type of person they are until later on.

 

This is the main thing. It's sort of like drawing a low card in poker. And the thing is: you just can't know. You just can't. Radu got it right though, it's a contract in a sense and we gotta know what we're signing up for.

 

That's definitely one of my biggest fears: feeling as if I'm being settled for when I don't provide the stimulation that other guys do. I guess it's sort of low of me to think that but that's what the proof shows at this stage. If I was a jarring guy, I'd no doubt have a string of FWBs, one nights, relationships, etc. All the while knowing what to look out for.

 

A friend of mine was called a "rake" by a girl. I knew she said it playfully and she wanted to try it out. Inevitably, they ended up sleeping together. Most girls like guys who know what they're doing, no matter how they got the experience.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Camaro Guy

[NJ123]

Sleeping around doesn't always mean a woman will make a bad wife. I know that is not a popular view amongst guys and I understand where it comes from but better to have a woman who experienced the wild life and realizes it is not all it is cracked up to me than a virgin who gets GIGs and wants to experience other men after a mid life crisis. I see that more than anything.

 

Well, personally I'd prefer a woman that has never wanted to experience the "wild life" to begin with. But I wouldn't look for a woman that's a virgin either since lets be realistic here, 99% of women past the age of 21 aren't virgins. To the guys that want a virgin girlfriend/wife, than all I could say is good luck to them since it would be like finding a needle in a haystack. And you're right, they'd likely eventually be wondering who else is out there if they have no experience with other guys.

[NJ123]

I saw your little thread a little ways down about how you want guys to only have eyes for you while not being the most physically attractive yourself. Now I see why you were trying to come so hard at me. I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously because I realize there's a large bias at work.

 

 

 

This is the main thing. It's sort of like drawing a low card in poker. And the thing is: you just can't know. You just can't. Radu got it right though, it's a contract in a sense and we gotta know what we're signing up for.

 

That's definitely one of my biggest fears: feeling as if I'm being settled for when I don't provide the stimulation that other guys do. I guess it's sort of low of me to think that but that's what the proof shows at this stage. If I was a jarring guy, I'd no doubt have a string of FWBs, one nights, relationships, etc. All the while knowing what to look out for.

 

A friend of mine was called a "rake" by a girl. I knew she said it playfully and she wanted to try it out. Inevitably, they ended up sleeping together. Most girls like guys who know what they're doing, no matter how they got the experience.

 

Well most women supposedly claim they don't care if a guy is a virgin. But they seem to just say that to make the guy feel better & try to get his confidence up.

 

And I understand what you mean with the whole thing about a woman settling for you after she's done with her "wild" past with sleeping around with the "bad boys" and trashy guys that women tend to be attracted to. As said a million times on this forum, no man wants to be seen as the guy that's being settled for after a woman is done sleeping around with those types of men. I feel bad for the guys that get suckered into that by women that are just using them. That's definitely not going to be me, since I wouldn't let that happen. If I even have a slight suspicion that I'm just some settle guy for a woman, than it would be better to end things with them since that's not a good place to be in for a man.

[AVarma]

Where I live women usually get married at around 23-24. They've usually been with their boyfriends for 2-3 years before marriage which basically means if you haven't had the wild hook-up lifestyle by the time you're 20 you're probably going to be out of luck.

 

Having said that I hear many women in their 30's get divorced and want to go back and experience what they never could. Many of them are quite the lookers I must say so you never know! You may be able to live the player lifestyle after college after all!

[NJ123]

Where I live women usually get married at around 23-24. They've usually been with their boyfriends for 2-3 years before marriage which basically means if you haven't had the wild hook-up lifestyle by the time you're 20 you're probably going to be out of luck.

 

Having said that I hear many women in their 30's get divorced and want to go back and experience what they never could. Many of them are quite the lookers I must say so you never know! You may be able to live the player lifestyle after college after all!

 

So in other words, it's the luck of the draw.

[serial muse]

I guess it's sort of low of me to think that but that's what the proof shows at this stage. If I was a jarring guy, I'd no doubt have a string of FWBs, one nights, relationships, etc. All the while knowing what to look out for.

 

Fears /= proof. They just aren't.

 

OP, I'm curious. Do you ever listen to any positive stories about relationships - you know, where a woman and man are happy together and nobody talks of "settling"? Do those count as "proof" to you too? Or do you only pay attention to the stuff that confirms what you already fear so you can trap yourself in this loop of what Imajerk aptly calls analysis paralysis?

 

Also, I don't know what you mean by a "jarring guy".

[E-Squared]

What about with men? I heard that it's sometimes ideal for a man to sleep around before meeting "the one," which I don't understand. I know an old friend of mine was a man-whore and then he got married later on.

[carhill]

Also, I don't know what you mean by a "jarring guy".

 

In slang circles, 'jarring' = annoying

[verhrzn]

I saw your little thread a little ways down about how you want guys to only have eyes for you while not being the most physically attractive yourself. Now I see why you were trying to come so hard at me. I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously because I realize there's a large bias at work.

 

How does my opinion about my own looks make me bias in your situation?? If anything, my "bias" should make me more favorable to your analysis... I know what it's like to have a guy settle for "good enough" and not be attracted to me. That's supposedly what you claim is happening for you, and yet I don't buy it for the reasons I've outlined in this thread.

 

I'm coming hard at you because I think your perception, assumptions, and attitude are gross and unrealistic. I'm obviously not the only one who believes this in this thread, and other people don't have this "bias" you claim I do.

[elaine567]

I just fear being taken for a ride by some girl who doesn't really like me because I don't have enough knowledge of how these things worked.

 

That is the fear everyone has; no matter how experienced.

Anyone can be taken for a ride, by someone who isn't who they say they are.

But everyone has just to close their eyes and take that jump off the cliff eventually, if they want to be in a relationship.

[acrosstheuniverse]

This thread has been such an eye opener, I never realised so many people got married in their early twenties, late teens!

 

It must depend on demographics, I guess. Not one single female friend of mine is even engaged right now, and we're around 26-28 now. All of us have degrees and careers so maybe that's part of it, but there's not a cat in hell's chance any of us would have accepted a marriage proposal prior to 25 at the absolute earliest, despite all of us having had long term relationships. Actually, one of us did get engaged around 23 I think, but the engagement broke down and she's now happily in a long term relationship with a new partner, with zero thoughts of engagement in her mind at any time in the foreseeable future.

 

All of our parents would have been horrified if we'd have gotten engaged or married any younger than we are now, they'd have said it was too fast and we needed time to grow into who we are and to experience life and relationships.

 

I've never dated to find a husband. I've just dated to have fun and see if a boyfriend shows up, and anything else has been seen as icing on the cake if it ever happens. Blows my mind that so many people go out there husband or wife-hunting... seems to me if you are looking so hard for someone to fill that role in your life, because society or your parents usually are telling you to, you're at a greater risk of finding someone who seems good enough and jamming them into that gap when they may not really be the right person for you.

 

Most people I know of different ages who've gotten married have been together 4-7 years by the ceremony. So they really know each other and have a good idea of what it's like to live together.