Marriage...what is it good for?

[amaysngrace]

Married men have a longer life expectancy than non-married men.

 

Same goes for women.

 

Does Marriage Help You Live Longer? - MensJournal.com

[CALOVELY]

That is the key word, claims. Assets accumulate over a marriage so yes, most men leave a marriage with more than they came in to it with. A house, investment portfolio, retirement accounts, etc. are things most men do not have when they marry for the first time. Splitting those things in divorce is still a net positive vs. what they arrived with.

 

I am not able to edit my post so to further add: Divorce hurts both parties as both lose out on assets they have worked for. People also have a tendency to think they have gotten a bad deal in divorce regardless of how fair it is. I have friends of both genders who walked away the "winner" if you will and yet they think they got screwed over. Oftentimes it is because they did not want the divorce in the first place so any distribution is going to be seen as unfair by them.

[Snaggletooth]

Here is another...why is it that as the generations goes down, there are more and more females that can't cook / becoming more untidy / hate chores? I mean gardening is becoming something that men dominate....am some of you have noticed this and know places with 'master gardeners' that are males.

 

 

To be fair men are becoming useless too. They're not being taught.

 

 

I learnt by watching my father as I grew up. Watching him hold down two jobs without complaint. Watching him not pester Mum over trivialities. Watching him take pride in it. Learnt by being made to be out working at a young age, not for pocket money but to help provide for the family, and it wasn't kid work either. By being told that I am not special, that I am one of billions and that my needs are no more important than anyone else's. Being told that "happiness" has sod all to do with it and that responsibility and duty to those depending on you come first. Being given no sympathy for a cut knee and told get get back on my bike and stop whinging. Being told that eight hours of chopping wood is expected of me if I want anyone to cook my dinner that week. Being told to shut up and get on with it. Being taught how to handle myself in a fight. How to garden, build, fix cars. Being allowed to run, climb, fall, adventure and play rough. Being allowed to end every day covered in sweat, cuts, bruises and grass stains, as a fit, healthy boy should. Being taught sport and how to be part of a team. Being given nothing unless I earned it. Being given a backhander when I deserved it. Being given harder one if I ever lied or made excuses. Being prepared for all the knocks and bumps of life so I can cope. All the little things that form a boy into a man by the age of eighteen instead of being a perpetual kid.

 

Thanks Dad and thanks Mum for putting up with the sh*t parts of him, just as he put up with the sh*t parts of you. Two adults putting their wants behind the needs of their kids and teaching them how to be adults who can do the same.

 

It never used to be difficult, you know? Now look at the state of things.

[autumnnight]

Actually, I think putting kids above everything, including the marriage, is part of the problem.

[CALOVELY]

Actually, I think putting kids above everything, including the marriage, is part of the problem.

 

Yes. There has to be balance.

[Snaggletooth]

Actually, I think putting kids above everything, including the marriage, is part of the problem.

 

Putting kids above everything would be a problem, that's what creates adults that act like kids.

 

Not putting selfish wants in front of a child's basic need of stable home with two parents isn't putting kids above everything, though. Neither is teaching a kid to work, contribute, provide for themselves, not expect something for nothing, how to go without, how to have discipline, restraint, honesty and that they are not bigger than the whole. One way of doing that is by not making oneself bigger than the whole. That's balance.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Snaggletooth

[littleblackheart]

To be fair men are becoming useless too. They're not being taught.

 

 

I learnt by watching my father as I grew up. Watching him hold down two jobs without complaint. Watching him not pester Mum over trivialities. Watching him take pride in it. Learnt by being made to be out working at a young age, not for pocket money but to help provide for the family, and it wasn't kid work either. By being told that I am not special, that I am one of billions and that my needs are no more important than anyone else's. Being told that "happiness" has sod all to do with it and that responsibility and duty to those depending on you come first. Being given no sympathy for a cut knee and told get get back on my bike and stop whinging. Being told that eight hours of chopping wood is expected of me if I want anyone to cook my dinner that week. Being told to shut up and get on with it. Being taught how to handle myself in a fight. How to garden, build, fix cars. Being allowed to run, climb, fall, adventure and play rough. Being allowed to end every day covered in sweat, cuts, bruises and grass stains, as a fit, healthy boy should. Being taught sport and how to be part of a team. Being given nothing unless I earned it. Being given a backhander when I deserved it. Being given harder one if I ever lied or made excuses. Being prepared for all the knocks and bumps of life so I can cope. All the little things that form a boy into a man by the age of eighteen instead of being a perpetual kid.

 

Thanks Dad and thanks Mum for putting up with the sh*t parts of him, just as he put up with the sh*t parts of you. Two adults putting their wants behind the needs of their kids and teaching them how to be adults who can do the same.

 

It never used to be difficult, you know? Now look at the state of things.

 

 

Touching, heartfelt post - they most probably had to face their own difficulties but lovely post nonetheless

[Lernaean_Hydra]

Here is another...why is it that as the generations goes down, there are more and more females that can't cook / becoming more untidy / hate chores? I mean gardening is becoming something that men dominate....am some of you have noticed this and know places with 'master gardeners' that are males.

 

Most chefs seem to be males (proper chefs), as opposed to people that boil egg on tv and capitalize on their looks . Why are parents not getting a grip on this and just churning out kids that are useless at most homely chores? Negotiating with your kids to tidy their room, wash their own clothes and being a chauffeur for them at a teenage age is just damn right wrong

 

Well for starters, historically, most professional chefs have been men. While the kitchen was once considered purely a woman's domain on a domestic level, on a professional level, that arena has always been dominated by males.

 

That being said, I can't garden nor do I know many that can, however I live in a major city in an apartment so it's unlikely I'm ever going to have a need for that particular skill set. It's great for those who can do so but hardly a deal I can, however, cook and excellently which is no small feat considering I'm self taught as my mother was never really good at it. But she was and is a working professional who made the choice to focus on and excel in her career as opposed to cultivating more domestic pursuits which I take no issue with. Nor should anyone else for that matter...

 

As for the rest, well you're kind of all over the place so I don't even know what to address. I can't tell if the real issue in this post is that women can't cook, or that parents aren't teaching their children proper life skills or that marriage is a great evil on the world or....well, like I said, you're all over the place.

[MissBee]

 

As for the rest, well you're kind of all over the place so I don't even know what to address. I can't tell if the real issue in this post is that women can't cook, or that parents aren't teaching their children proper life skills or that marriage is a great evil on the world or....well, like I said, you're all over the place.

 

Apparently the solution is women are horrible and I guess men too and we should all swallow poison and die at once .

[Tayken]

But she was and is a working professional who made the choice to focus on and excel in her career as opposed to cultivating more domestic pursuits which I take no issue with. Nor should anyone else for that matter...

 

Hmmm...excuses. I am a working professional too (demanding career with over 200 staff), a single dad and still manage to cook and garden, do laundry and chores. My place doesn't look like a pig style even during the week or the week I have my son.

 

Oh...I grew up in a city of 8 million people and still garden, and when I moved here to a city of 3 million people, I still manage to garden.

 

The point again...why is it that most females can't cook these days, as well as do basic chores? Many aren't exactly career professionals...is because Facebook / twitter and gossip shows have taken over their lives????

 

Eating at restaurants all week and getting takeouts is not exactly my thing, and can't imagine being with someone that does this. I am one man that hates pizza with a passion.

[MissBee]

Hmmm...excuses. I am a working professional too (demanding career with over 200 staff), a single dad and still manage to cook and garden, do laundry and chores. My place doesn't look like a pig style even during the week or the week I have my son.

 

Oh...I grew up in a city of 8 million people and still garden, and when I moved here to a city of 3 million people, I still manage to garden.

The point again...why is it that most females can't cook these days, as well as do basic chores? Many aren't exactly career professionals...is because Facebook / twitter and gossip shows have taken over their lives????

 

Eating at restaurants all week and getting takeouts is not exactly my thing, and can't imagine being with someone that does this. I am one man that hates pizza with a passion.

 

 

You're hilarious, i'll give you that!

 

None of this even makes sense. If you can cook and garden you certainly don't need a woman to do it for you, you can do it for yourself. Some people aren't married to take on a gardener and chef. My aunt for example can cook but my uncle simply prefers the cooking, cooking relaxes him, that's his hobby, so she never cooks but once in a while...he's not married to her for that reason though but the many other things she can and does do and how she treats him. She's a great gardener by chance though.

 

Your most women can't cook and stuff is nonsense...you have no figures to prove this statement. Even if every woman you've met couldn't cook those are still but some women and isn't representative of the larger population or world for that matter. So just stop with these unfounded accusations...I mean I know you won't stop so carry on, they're funny because of their absurdity sometimes.

 

But yea most women cannot cook or do anything worthwhile...just sit around watching tv shows and on FB and live in pig sties...carry on...tell us more.

[ufo8mycat]

 

Eating at restaurants all week and getting takeouts is not exactly my thing, and can't imagine being with someone that does this. I am one man that hates pizza with a passion.

 

Some women don't like cooking, Just like some men don't like cooking. I hate cooking and derive no pleasure from it.

 

What I am trying to understand with all the posts you have started is why this bothers you so much? Isn't it rather simple? Only pursue a relationship with a clean, tidy, 50kg athlete whose hobbies and lifestyle co-incide with yours?

 

Then you need not spend time and energy on how "most" females don't meet your minimum standards.

[MissBee]

Some women don't like cooking, Just like some men don't like cooking. I hate cooking and derive no pleasure from it.

 

What I am trying to understand with all the posts you have started is why this bothers you so much? Isn't it rather simple? Only pursue a relationship with a clean, tidy, 50kg athlete whose hobbies and lifestyle co-incide with yours?

 

Then you need not spend time and energy on how "most" females don't meet your minimum standards.

 

Right!

 

I know exactly the kinds of men I don't like. I avoid dating them. Not gonna waste precious time talking about "most males" this that and the third pseudo-scientific observation and berating men and marriage all across the board...like what is the purpose?

 

Don't get married and don't fraternize with "females" you don't like. Simple.

[ufo8mycat]

In some respects I get it, I have a job, train 20 hours + a week and need to eat and rest accordingly. I can't see myself enjoying too much quality time with someone whose hobbies include late nights, video games, partying, greasy food, sleeping in and hangovers. Our lifestyles just wouldn't mesh.

 

But that isn't to say I think there is anything wrong with people who do things differently to me - just that it wouldn't be a great marriage.

 

I live in the city and have only just started a balcony garden. This is my baby, my husband doesn't care for gardening at all. Which is OK, it has been trial and error and learning along the way. I am not sure why it makes someone inferior if they don't know how to or don't like gardening?

[Tayken]

 

You're hilarious, i'll give you that!

 

None of this even makes sense. If you can cook and garden you certainly don't need a woman to do it for you, you can do it for yourself. Some people aren't married to take on a gardener and chef. My aunt for example can cook but my uncle simply prefers the cooking, cooking relaxes him, that's his hobby, so she never cooks but once in a while...he's not married to her for that reason though but the many other things she can and does do and how she treats him. She's a great gardener by chance though.

 

Your most women can't cook and stuff is nonsense...you have no figures to prove this statement. Even if every woman you've met couldn't cook those are still but some women and isn't representative of the larger population or world for that matter. So just stop with these unfounded accusations...I mean I know you won't stop so carry on, they're funny because of their absurdity sometimes.

 

But yea most women cannot cook or do anything worthwhile...just sit around watching tv shows and on FB and live in pig sties...carry on...tell us more.

 

Did any of this touch a nerve then or resonate? Making spaghetti, boiling an egg, and making PBJ or throwing a pizza in the oven isn't cooking by the way..just saying

[sweetjasmine]

Your most women can't cook and stuff is nonsense...you have no figures to prove this statement. Even if every woman you've met couldn't cook those are still but some women and isn't representative of the larger population or world for that matter.

 

Yup! I like cooking. And sewing/knitting (H doesn't know the first thing about sewing/knitting) and gardening (H doesn't know the first thing about gardening). But I wouldn't touch someone with OP's attitude with a 10 foot pole and I'd rather they not know I exist so I don't have to interact with them.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

Hmmm...excuses. I am a working professional too (demanding career with over 200 staff), a single dad and still manage to cook and garden, do laundry and chores. My place doesn't look like a pig style even during the week or the week I have my son.

 

Oh...I grew up in a city of 8 million people and still garden, and when I moved here to a city of 3 million people, I still manage to garden.

 

The point again...why is it that most females can't cook these days, as well as do basic chores? Many aren't exactly career professionals...is because Facebook / twitter and gossip shows have taken over their lives????

 

Eating at restaurants all week and getting takeouts is not exactly my thing, and can't imagine being with someone that does this. I am one man that hates pizza with a passion.

 

 

 

It's not really an excuse as there's no need for one. My mother simply opted to put more energy into her education and career and going into private practice than her culinary skills. Given that her efforts over the course of my life had enabled me to live a lifestyle in which working is completely optional for me, I'm not exactly going to knock her because she can't make a quiche. She can, however obviously clean and keep a house and do other domestic chores. She's not mentally retarded.

 

We all choose different pursuits of interest. I choose not to take up gardening because I like working with my hands and despite what you've said, I'd have no place to pursue such a hobby anyway. I live in an apartment...there is no backyard. But that's all beside the point. It's great that you have an interest in cooking and gardening, just as it's equally great I have an interest in building things and home improvement projects.

 

That said, I'm still not sure where you're getting this idea that "most females" can't cook. And then you go onto cite how they're on Facebook or whatever but unless you know these women intimately, how on earth would you ever possibly know their level of profiences in domestic affairs?? I know many men who can barely boil water without burning it so your point is moot. Some people can't cook. Of both sexes. But I hardly see some sort of epidemic.

[serial muse]

Did any of this touch a nerve then or resonate? Making spaghetti, boiling an egg, and making PBJ or throwing a pizza in the oven isn't cooking by the way..just saying

 

It's possible that people will take exception to incorrect assumptions even if those assumptions are inaccurate with respect to them. From a purely intellectual standpoint, those assumptions are rather wild and off-base, so why not say so? I think they're completely unfounded; I also do lots of cooking (in fact I belong to a cooking club), have a career, have a family, and basically live my life like a normal person. I don't care about gardening, but then, I doubt you care overmuch about my leisure activities. People can like different things without it meaning something deeper about societal values.

 

Like Hydra, I honestly don't know where you're going with all of this; you seem to have a lot of points in a lot of different directions, loosely connected by the theme of being kind of angry about things. Is that the case?

[Rejected Rosebud]

And that happens every day. Don't you think men who have been burned have a right to warn other men what can happen?

I don't understand why you guys insist that this is a gender issue, I don't believe it is. People can be burned and devastated for life by a failed marriage. I don't think either men or women have a right to claim to be the biggest victims of that and I don't even understand why anybody'd want to!!

[Woggle]

I don't understand why you guys insist that this is a gender issue, I don't believe it is. People can be burned and devastated for life by a failed marriage. I don't think either men or women have a right to claim to be the biggest victims of that and I don't even understand why anybody'd want to!!

 

This is true but family court bias is real and I don't know why some such an issue admitting that. I am white and I can acknowledge that police harassment and brutality are very real things that the black community deals with and I don't get offended when this is pointed out. Why then is it such an issue when men bring up the stuff guys go through in family court? Most women are good women but the bad ones can legally destroy a man's life if she chooses and that scares many men away from marriage.

[amaysngrace]

This is true but family court bias is real and I don't know why some such an issue admitting that. I am white and I can acknowledge that police harassment and brutality are very real things that the black community deals with and I don't get offended when this is pointed out. Why then is it such an issue when men bring up the stuff guys go through in family court? Most women are good women but the bad ones can legally destroy a man's life if she chooses and that scares many men away from marriage.

 

That's not true though. A lot of men keep their homes. I know of three offhand...four if I count you.

 

And I don't even know a lot of divorced people.

[Tayken]

That's not true though. A lot of men keep their homes. I know of three offhand...four if I count you.

 

And I don't even know a lot of divorced people.

 

Here is a typical scenario....

 

If a man owned a home and brought it into the marriage, the divorce / division of assets form has a section where you have to list inheritances / stuff you owned before. What the other party will be entitled to in this case will be the appreciation in the price of the home bar the the actual total cost of the home.

 

So for the men you claim to know that kept their homes, this might have been the case. If this is not the case, it could simply be that the men were clever enough to not put their name on the home, and instead used their parents / siblings as owners so a blood sucking leech won't get their hands on it.

 

Note to all out there...if you own property and someone is planning to move in, switch ownership to your parents / siblings to protect yourself.

Edited December 29, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed insult

[CALOVELY]

 

So for the men you claim to know that kept their homes, this might have been the case. If this is not the case, it could simply be that the men were clever enough to not put their name on the home, and instead used their parents / siblings as owners so a blood sucking leech won't get their hands on it.

 

 

 

 

The most common scenario in keeping a house is the one keeping the house buys the other out. There are many ways this happens. The equity value of the house is assessed and cash/investments are used to pay the other person their portion of the value. If no cash or investments are available, the person keeping the house refinances and the equity is cashed out via a home equity loan to be given to the other. So yes, the other person "lost" the home in the same way the other "lost" their investments.

 

The reason why more women opt to keep the house more often than men is that we tend to be nesters. We look at a house as a home filled with memories and such, which is not always wise financially. I can understand that keeping the same home for children is less of a strain for them but sometimes it is just better to sell the house, split the proceeds and start fresh.

[Snaggletooth]

Married men have a longer life expectancy than non-married men.

 

Same goes for women.

 

Does Marriage Help You Live Longer? - MensJournal.com

 

 

Thing is Amaysng, men know these things but they also know the risks. One of them is that divorced men die earlier than never married men.

 

Not saying you personally do, but it would be a mistake for people to think this is born from bitter and hurt men. For most I know, and from what I have read, it's born mainly from rational thought and nothing is going to change that until there is actual change. Personally I think the damage has been done and that we're going to see more and more men opt out and stay single, which is going to be very bad for society. With all they have seen and experienced in their youth, along not getting the upbringing men once did, these men cannot be told they are wrong. As I said in the other thread, even parents are now beginning to tell their sons to stay single, live for themselves and not to marry. For every action there is a reaction and this is the reaction.

[Tayken]

The most common scenario in keeping a house is the one keeping the house buys the other out. There are many ways this happens. The equity value of the house is assessed and cash/investments are used to pay the other person their portion of the value. If no cash or investments are available, the person keeping the house refinances and the equity is cashed out via a home equity loan to be given to the other. So yes, the other person "lost" the home in the same way the other "lost" their investments.

 

The reason why more women opt to keep the house more often than men is that we tend to be nesters. We look at a house as a home filled with memories and such, which is not always wise financially. I can understand that keeping the same home for children is less of a strain for them but sometimes it is just better to sell the house, split the proceeds and start fresh.

 

Bold 1: Please tell me what I don't know because I didn't go through it ...please do. In the point made above by the other poster, I asked and listed scenarios where those men might have kept their houses...I never claimed to know the scenario.

 

Bold 2: Assumption that all women that keep the house can afford it? Does this include the ones that make false accusation in order to get the man out as described by a poster above? False accusations happen more that you will believe because these wacky females know it's the easiest way to get a man out

 

One of them is that divorced men die earlier than never married men.

 

Does this include married people who are putting forward a facade and still living under the same roof as tenants? I guess as a divorced man I am going to die young then...oh well, I have lived and see places and have a child to carry on my name.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Tayken