Marriage...what is it good for?

[Got it]

It all depends on what your expectations are and what you want to get out of it. Even having divorced I still see marriage very positively and am very happily married. And no, I am not eating bon bons and not contributing to the household. In fact I make more though we both make a good bit.

 

I don't understand, if you don't want to marry, don't marry. It isn't like there is this great subterfuge where people don't know what they are getting into nor are they forever branded if they divorce.

 

Seriously, what is the big deal? I don't understand being so scarred just because someone's marriage didn't work out that they need to set a campaign for all men.

[CALOVELY]

 

I hate to say it, in today's world marriage opens a man up to all kinds risk and abuse with very little security or protection. You can have your kids taken from you, lose your home, lose everything you've worked for and even be thrown in prison on the whim and word of your wife. If you land a good wife marriage will be the best thing you ever did. If you get stuck with an unpleasant one your exit is going to be painful, expensive and damaging. So you should take your time, think very carefully and not allow yourself to be rushed into it because you're risking all on toss of a coin odds.

 

Both sexes open themselves up to all kinds of lack of security and protection. She is taking a risk that he is faithful to her and not bringing home diseases that could be detrimental to her health, as men are historically less faithful. She is limiting her career trajectory, as wives typically do a larger share of child rearing regardless if they work full time. She is taking a risk that he won't have a substance abuse problem or become violent. She too is losing half her assets post divorce and all the stresses that comes with. Many lose their homes as they can no longer afford them. A woman is placing her faith in a man that post divorce he will be a full time, engaged father rather than a weekend/once every other week dad. Getting married and having children also limits her future relationships post divorce as there are many men who do not want to be with single mothers.

 

Marriage is a crap shoot for both sexes and both risk plenty. Despite all that, marriage can be wonderful with that special person and that is why so many make that leap of faith.

[Snaggletooth]

Both sexes open themselves up to all kinds of lack of security and protection. She is taking a risk that he is faithful to her and not bringing home diseases that could be detrimental to her health, as men are historically less faithful. She is limiting her career trajectory, as wives typically do a larger share of child rearing regardless if they work full time. She is taking a risk that he won't have a substance abuse problem or become violent. She too is losing half her assets post divorce and all the stresses that comes with. Many lose their homes as they can no longer afford them. A woman is placing her faith in a man that post divorce he will be a full time, engaged father rather than a weekend/once every other week dad. Getting married and having children also limits her future relationships post divorce as there are many men who do not want to be with single mothers.

 

Marriage is a crap shoot for both sexes and both risk plenty. Despite all that, marriage can be wonderful with that special person and that is why so many make that leap of faith.

 

Yup.

 

Problem is, there are so many failed and bad marriages nowadays that people are opting out. It's been a problem growing since the 60's. We've got to a point where much of the population just don't know how to honour their word and do marriage.

 

When staring at a 50/50 chance of being screwed over, many men are saying "No thanks. I'll take the cheaper, safer, easier, more secure path".

 

My generation were born into a world were you believed marriage meant for life, we got that belief from watching our parents and grandparents. So we opted for marriage with the view that it offered love, comfort, stability and security, in both good times and bad. The lads today, they know that isn't true, so marriage is often viewed as dangerous. That view has come from watching the generations above them lie, cheat, betray, abandon, divorce and screw each other over in the courts. A good example was not set.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Snaggletooth

[No Limit]

I love wearing fancy dresses.

[CALOVELY]

Yup.

 

Problem is, there are so many failed and bad marriages nowadays that people are opting out. It's been a problem growing since the 60's. We've got to a point where much of the population just don't know how to honour their word and do marriage.

 

When staring at a 50/50 chance of being screwed over, many men are saying "No thanks. I'll take the cheaper, safer, easier, more secure path".

 

My generation were born into a world were you believed marriage meant for life, we got that belief from watching our parents and grandparents. So we opted for marriage with the view that it offered love, comfort, stability and security, in both good times and bad. The lads today, they know that isn't true, so marriage is often viewed as dangerous. That view has come from watching the generations above them lie, cheat, betray, abandon, divorce and screw each other over in the courts. A good example was not set.

 

I agree. Many women are also opting out of marriage for the same reasons. I think it is good that people are cautious about something so monumental. Life is short but it is very long if you are with the wrong person. If you have children, you are tied to that person for the rest of your life even after divorce. Many do not want to take that risk.

[Tayken]

The lads today, they know that isn't true, so marriage is often viewed as dangerous. That view has come from watching the generations above them lie, cheat, betray, abandon, divorce and screw each other over in the courts. A good example was not set.

 

Exactly....no sane business person with half a brain knowing will invest in something that has a 50-50 chance of success.

 

If you have children, you are tied to that person for the rest of your life even after divorce.

 

Well...don't know about that. Once the child/ren are 18 and considered officially adults, you can choose to cut ties with that ex completely.

[littleblackheart]

Well...don't know about that. Once the child/ren are 18 and considered officially adults, you can choose to cut ties with that ex completely.

 

 

That's a strange way of looking at things - whatever bad blood there was/is/will be, you chose this person to be the mother of your child(ren) and this is a very precious bond. I can't say I get on swimmingly with my ex for a million and one reasons but whatever happens between us, I will forever be grateful to him for bestowing me the gift of motherhood so just for this, he will always have a special place in my life.

 

 

Your children will also gain a lot from seeing that they came from love at one point, IMO.

[Woggle]

I mean this with no disrespect but I think it is hard for a woman to understand why so many men are afraid of facing the family courts in a divorce. They often sound like a white person talking about police harrassment because they don't have to worry about losing everything because your spouse snaps their finger and says they aren't happy. The ones who do get it have often seen a man they care about go through it. You grow up seeing that happen to enough men it has an effect on you.

[Tayken]

That's a strange way of looking at things - whatever bad blood there was/is/will be, you chose this person to be the mother of your child(ren) and this is a very precious bond. I can't say I get on swimmingly with my ex for a million and one reasons but whatever happens between us, I will forever be grateful to him for bestowing me the gift of motherhood so just for this, he will always have a special place in my life.

 

 

Your children will also gain a lot from seeing that they came from love at one point, IMO.

 

 

Yes....acknowledged. But it doesn't mean I want to be sitting down having tea with them, going places with them, sending them texts / having a chat. Once the child is grown and is officially an adult, our job is done.

 

I think it is hard for a woman to understand why so many men are afraid of facing the family courts in a divorce.

 

Trust me...some do, hence the reason they sometimes make false accusations during divorce proceedings. Anything to get that sole custody, which means table amount CS as opposed to an offset amount, or just to spite the guy from not seeing his kids (more common when daughters) period.

[littleblackheart]

I mean this with no disrespect but I think it is hard for a woman to understand why so many men are afraid of facing the family courts in a divorce. They often sound like a white person talking about police harrassment because they don't have to worry about losing everything because your spouse snaps their finger and says they aren't happy. The ones who do get it have often seen a man they care about go through it. You grow up seeing that happen to enough men it has an effect on you.

 

 

With all due respect, if a man has to face family courts in a divorce procedure, so has his wife. There is nothing black or white in any relationship, and if you're letting yourself be influenced by one carefully edited side of the story, you are bound to be biased.

 

 

I've never been or observed any relationship where one partner just suddenly realises they aren't happy - I know from painful experience that feelings aren't a great breeding ground for red flag awareness but every time, there is some sort of build up. Sometimes, it's just the realisation that you're with the wrong person.

 

 

Those who are happily married (there are plenty around) have made their expectations and boundaries clear to each other, and have managed to keep their initial feelings grow through thick and thin - it's a very special thing to have, and a beautiful thing to aspire to.

[autumnnight]

Actually I think Woggle has a point. Especially in the region of the country where I live, the assumption STILL seems to be that Mom is the one who gets the main custody. Financially, the man takes the big hit most of the time. And honestly, if you divorce and you are a woman, you lose your right to stay home and be taken care of. get a job. No one would be okay with the man deciding to stay home and expecting the ex-wife to foot the bill. But the courts do not always agree.

 

And if you are female, all you have to do is say the word "abuse" and the courts and social services act now and ask questions later. I know someone who has been accused of vile abuse 3 times, and each time he was cleared. BUT each time he was dragged through the mud and had to endure supervised visits for MONTHS while the ex wife and her attorney dragged it out as long as possible. THAT is wrong, and I think she should serve time. But she won't.

 

Yes, I hope my son marries because I want lots of grandkids But I hope and pray he finds a really good woman, and I will have no problem scrutinizing her to make sure she is. If she is she will have no bigger cheerleader than me. but she better not rake him over the coals

[Tayken]

Actually I think Woggle has a point. Especially in the region of the country where I live, the assumption STILL seems to be that Mom is the one who gets the main custody. Financially, the man takes the big hit most of the time. And honestly, if you divorce and you are a woman, you lose your right to stay home and be taken care of. get a job. No one would be okay with the man deciding to stay home and expecting the ex-wife to foot the bill. But the courts do not always agree.

 

And if you are female, all you have to do is say the word "abuse" and the courts and social services act now and ask questions later. I know someone who has been accused of vile abuse 3 times, and each time he was cleared. BUT each time he was dragged through the mud and had to endure supervised visits for MONTHS while the ex wife and her attorney dragged it out as long as possible. THAT is wrong, and I think she should serve time. But she won't.

 

Yes, I hope my son marries because I want lots of grandkids But I hope and pray he finds a really good woman, and I will have no problem scrutinizing her to make sure she is. If she is she will have no bigger cheerleader than me. but she better not rake him over the coals

 

 

Unfortunately, you might not get a say in it, as she might be able to captivate / hypnotize your son with sex up to the point where he tells you to stay out of it.

 

Some women who are malicious and have sons, are going to have Karma get them so good when some other chick does to their son, what they did to his father. However, they only think of the present time

[CALOVELY]

 

 

Well...don't know about that. Once the child/ren are 18 and considered officially adults, you can choose to cut ties with that ex completely.

 

Graduations, weddings, births, illness or accidents. You are tied to the ex as the parents of your kids and will run in to each other.

[littleblackheart]

Actually I think Woggle has a point. Especially in the region of the country where I live, the assumption STILL seems to be that Mom is the one who gets the main custody. Financially, the man takes the big hit most of the time. And honestly, if you divorce and you are a woman, you lose your right to stay home and be taken care of. get a job. No one would be okay with the man deciding to stay home and expecting the ex-wife to foot the bill. But the courts do not always agree.

 

And if you are female, all you have to do is say the word "abuse" and the courts and social services act now and ask questions later. I know someone who has been accused of vile abuse 3 times, and each time he was cleared. BUT each time he was dragged through the mud and had to endure supervised visits for MONTHS while the ex wife and her attorney dragged it out as long as possible. THAT is wrong, and I think she should serve time. But she won't.

 

Yes, I hope my son marries because I want lots of grandkids But I hope and pray he finds a really good woman, and I will have no problem scrutinizing her to make sure she is. If she is she will have no bigger cheerleader than me. but she better not rake him over the coals

 

 

I understand this, and I take the point - I appreciate that some people can be vindictive but it's rare - very few divorces reach family courts (I can't remember the % but I think it's less than 20%), and really the situation you describe is the exception (that's why they are made an example of); the thing is though, to have let it get to such a level of nastiness, to me anyway, means a number of issues have been left unresolved or not addressed in the marriage. I'm not defending or justifying the lies in any way at all, I know it happens; I'm just saying that at some point, responsibility for the breakdown of the relationship has to be shared.

 

 

I could also argue about what women stand to lose with a divorce but I can't see it going down too well on this thread . From what I understand reading previous posts, the OP is one of those very (very) few men who actually fought for custody of his children - that should be lauded, and goes to show can (and should) be done, for the sake of the children more than anything.

[autumnnight]

Unfortunately, you might not get a say in it, as she might be able to captivate / hypnotize your son with sex up to the point where he tells you to stay out of it.

 

Some women who are malicious and have sons, are going to have Karma get them so good when some other chick does to their son, what they did to his father. However, they only think of the present time

 

That is true, and if he marries a witch, I will be as kind to her as a kind so that I can still be in his life and in my grandchildren's lives. Same with my daughters if they marry good for nothings.

 

I think a good, open, self-sufficient but caring woman and a good, open, self-sufficient but caring man who choose to love each other have the best shot. But in order to have that combo each person has to be the best they can be, has to know themselves, and has to be willing to see the other person in a positive and loving light rather than expecting them to be a monster.

 

In other words, real marriage isn't for sissies, IMO.

[Snaggletooth]

I mean this with no disrespect but I think it is hard for a woman to understand why so many men are afraid of facing the family courts in a divorce. They often sound like a white person talking about police harrassment because they don't have to worry about losing everything because your spouse snaps their finger and says they aren't happy. The ones who do get it have often seen a man they care about go through it. You grow up seeing that happen to enough men it has an effect on you.

 

To add, if I may, I've got mates who have been absolutely destroyed from losing their family and kids. Good, decent, successful, honest men now suffering a lifetime of depression and scars. One shut down so completely he has been in an institution for twenty years. Hasn't spoken a word in all that time.

 

The person they trusted most in the world took their kids away. Their flesh and blood was ripped away from them. What they loved more than life and sacrificed everything for. There is no worse betrayal of trust than that. There's nothing worse you can do to man.

 

This is also why many men will stay in a marriage with terrible and abusive wives. They can't bear to lose their kids. It's the kind of thing that kills a man on the inside. Leaves an empty shell.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Snaggletooth

[Tayken]

The person they trusted most in the world took their kids away. Their flesh and blood was ripped away from them. What they loved more than life and sacrificed everything for. There is no worse betrayal of trust than that. There's nothing worse you can do to man.

 

This is also why many men will stay in a marriage with terrible and abusive wives. They can't bear to lose their kids. It's the kind of thing that kills a man on the inside. Leaves an empty shell.

 

This is true, and it's the first line of defence for most women i.e. using the kids as pawn. I still remember it like yesterday when I told my ex I want out...words out of her mouth was "oh yeah, by the time I am done with you, you will wish you were still married to me".

 

I looked at her and said, nothing can make me wish I was still with you. I was very confident because I had always been a part of our son's life and was very involved. I can tell you the name of his teacher, principal, doctor, dentist, took him to appointments, gave baths/shower and took himt o school / on vacation.

 

I also happen to have pics, load s of them and documented my time with him. 50-50 was a slam dunk at this point if not sole custody but I believe a kid should always have the right to both parents in the absence of legit abuse / physical and other danger.

 

The men that stay for fear of losing their kids are those that ...

 

1. allowed the woman to be the primary caregiver (my ex tried to pull this one, and I reminded her that she worked just like me, and if anything the school is the primary caregiver)

 

2. don't do anything with their kids and put their buddies first

 

3. are just useless as parents

[Snaggletooth]

The men that stay for fear of losing their kids are those that ...

 

1. allowed the woman to be the primary caregiver (my ex tried to pull this one, and I reminded her that she worked just like me, and if anything the school is the primary caregiver)

 

2. don't do anything with their kids and put their buddies first

 

3. are just useless as parents

 

You have a lot to learn.

[Tayken]

You have a lot to learn.

 

I think I learned a lot in my 40 odd years, and it helped me during my matter in getting that 50-50 custody that most men don't have. I can teach a lot of married men a thing or two about being a good father.

 

The thing is on my week on, everything revolves around my child i.e. all the activities after work, as well as drop off / pick up from school, homework, relax time, shower/bath etc

 

Oh...and I don't have grandparents in the country to go dump it at.

[thefooloftheyear]

This is true, and it's the first line of defence for most women i.e. using the kids as pawn. I still remember it like yesterday when I told my ex I want out...words out of her mouth was "oh yeah, by the time I am done with you, you will wish you were still married to me".

 

I looked at her and said, nothing can make me wish I was still with you. I was very confident because I had always been a part of our son's life and was very involved. I can tell you the name of his teacher, principal, doctor, dentist, took him to appointments, gave baths/shower and took himt o school / on vacation.

 

I also happen to have pics, load s of them and documented my time with him. 50-50 was a slam dunk at this point if not sole custody but I believe a kid should always have the right to both parents in the absence of legit abuse / physical and other danger.

 

The men that stay for fear of losing their kids are those that ...

 

1. allowed the woman to be the primary caregiver (my ex tried to pull this one, and I reminded her that she worked just like me, and if anything the school is the primary caregiver)

 

2. don't do anything with their kids and put their buddies first

 

3. are just useless as parents

 

Speak for yourself, buddy...

 

Many men stay because they care deeply about their kids, and I dont give a shyt what some quack psychologist says....If two people that dont get along can put aside grievances for the sake of the children, they(kids) absolutely will be better off in the end...Custody arrangements and all the other nonsense stuff associated with divorce really hurts kids..People rationalize it all they want, but its a painful situation for kids....I know its one of the reasons I am so fcked up as an adult, because I had to endure that garbage as a kid, but I cant let that be my crutch...I have to rise above somehow...The past cant be changed..

 

Its kinda disheartening to listen to all of this bitterness..

 

Its like this...and in many cases its not about a "good guy-bad guy"...Two people decide to get married without careful thought to what the ramifications of that are...Most because they are just too young...And both parties can be contributors here...Its been my experience that in many failed relationships, the men were lazy(not in a working sense-but in the essential intangibles involved in what women need out of a R), and women tend to be overly idealistic...If you dont find middle ground, then problems arise..

 

I didnt "win"...Im gonna be part of the statistics...She isnt horrible...In fact its quite possible everything about her would be different or great with someone else..So what is the point? Where my life goes from here is anyones guess...But I wont make my kid suffer one day-thats for damn sure.....And who knows, once people sit down and work things through, some clarity and fairness comes out...Too many people are anxious to take the gloves off..Not everyone is out to get the other person..When there are children involved, we all have to be the bigger people...for their sake...Lets face it, they never asked for any of this..

 

TFY

[Got it]

I think I learned a lot in my 40 odd years, and it helped me during my matter in getting that 50-50 custody that most men don't have. I can teach a lot of married men a thing or two about being a good father.

 

The thing is on my week on, everything revolves around my child i.e. all the activities after work, as well as drop off / pick up from school, homework, relax time, shower/bath etc

 

Oh...and I don't have grandparents in the country to go dump it at.

 

This is very insulting to a number of men (and women) that work jobs that can't allow them 50/50 custody regardless of desire. With travel schedules, when divorced they can't have a routine week that would allow them to have their children more. So many do stay knowing that this is the outcome.

 

You do think quite highly of yourself, don't you? You have it all figured out. You understand the evilness of the female gender, you can teach the male gender how to child rear, date, and marry. How did the population survive prior?

[autumnnight]

Its like this...and in many cases its not about a "good guy-bad guy"...Two people decide to get married without careful thought to what the ramifications of that are...Most because they are just too young...And both parties can be contributors here...Its been my experience that in many failed relationships, the men were lazy(not in a working sense-but in the essential intangibles involved in what women need out of a R), and women tend to be overly idealistic...If you dont find middle ground, then problems arise..

 

I didnt "win"...Im gonna be part of the statistics...She isnt horrible...In fact its quite possible everything about her would be different or great with someone else..So what is the point? Where my life goes from here is anyones guess...But I wont make my kid suffer one day-thats for damn sure.....And who knows, once people sit down and work things through, some clarity and fairness comes out...Too many people are anxious to take the gloves off..Not everyone is out to get the other person..When there are children involved, we all have to be the bigger people...for their sake...Lets face it, they never asked for any of this..

 

After I got some distance and the pendulum of emotion stopped swinging, this was my conclusion as well. I did crap, he did crap, our marriage became crap, and it was too much crap to fix. I'm not sorry it lasted as long as it did though because my kids were grown.

[Tayken]

Speak for yourself, buddy...

 

Many men stay because they care deeply about their kids, and I dont give a shyt what some quack psychologist says....If two people that dont get along can put aside grievances for the sake of the children, they(kids) absolutely will be better off in the end...Custody arrangements and all the other nonsense stuff associated with divorce really hurts kids..People rationalize it all they want, but its a painful situation for kids....I know its one of the reasons I am so fcked up as an adult, because I had to endure that garbage as a kid, but I cant let that be my crutch...I have to rise above somehow...The past cant be changed..

 

Its kinda disheartening to listen to all of this bitterness..

 

Its like this...and in many cases its not about a "good guy-bad guy"...Two people decide to get married without careful thought to what the ramifications of that are...Most because they are just too young...And both parties can be contributors here...Its been my experience that in many failed relationships, the men were lazy(not in a working sense-but in the essential intangibles involved in what women need out of a R), and women tend to be overly idealistic...If you dont find middle ground, then problems arise..

 

I didnt "win"...Im gonna be part of the statistics...She isnt horrible...In fact its quite possible everything about her would be different or great with someone else..So what is the point? Where my life goes from here is anyones guess...But I wont make my kid suffer one day-thats for damn sure.....And who knows, once people sit down and work things through, some clarity and fairness comes out...Too many people are anxious to take the gloves off..Not everyone is out to get the other person..When there are children involved, we all have to be the bigger people...for their sake...Lets face it, they never asked for any of this..

 

TFY

 

 

Lets get something straight...I am not your "buddy"

 

My parents have been married 50 odd years, my ex on the other hand comes from a divorced home. Yes the child didn't ask for any of this, but he has 2 loving parents there for him and gets to spend his time at both homes as opposed to one parent not being in the picture. (see the difference here?)

 

What is the point of 2 people staying together and arguing for the kids to see as is so common in many households. The stats on 1 in every 2 marriages failing in there as fact. My ex couldn't force me to stay with her for my own sanity, and you won't be able to get your spouse to stay with you regardless.

 

You do think quite highly of yourself, don't you? You have it all figured out.

 

It's called self awareness, which of course is completely different from delusion where someone thinks the world owes them / they are entitled to something because of their gender

Edited December 28, 2014 by Tayken

[littleblackheart]

Too many people are anxious to take the gloves off..Not everyone is out to get the other person

 

 

That ^^^ exactly. It's hard to let go of the hurt of the breakup and the overwhelming sense of failure it brings but patience, the best intentions, respect for the other parent and letting go of the bad stuff go a long way for everyone's sake (the wellbeing of their parents is immensely important for children to feel safe).

[MuddyFootprints]

We married to build a family. A family that I tried to destroy. Thankfully, we have come together again.

 

In our case, neither of us can parent adequately on our own; even with 'adult' kids, it's still a full-time effort on more than overtime wages.

 

We have become so very grateful to realize that we have each other to lean on and to count on when trying to deal with the everyday crises, whether they are major or minor.

 

We are a team and it's together that we manage to get through each day.