Struggling to accept it... how did you?

[kenmore]

OTW, is there any way you can skip organizing those things for now, pack them up and mail him his stuff next year? Or let him organize and send you your stuff when he deals with it?

 

One thing you will have once you fly back across the world is distance. Not that it helps emotionally, but at least it severs the "what if's" and hope of "getting back together." That's the opposite of what I may end up with described here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/second-chances/508279-live-separate-houses

 

Which, BTW, answers your question about how I feel about the perpetual dating. That's what the thread is about...funny you asked.

 

How is divorce handled there? Is it like here with a mandatory 6 mo wait, community property and no-fault?

[Downtown]

I was always labelled the mentally unstable one because I have a history of depression, and, well, he's never been diagnosed with any anything... Not that he's been checked for it either so who knows?

OTW, I agree with Satu and Lonewalker that your STBX may be exhibiting strong traits of a mental disorder. Significantly, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., emotional instability, verbal abuse, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you), and repeated cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back -- are some of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would also suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Satu and Lonewalker in discussing them with you. Take care, OTW.

[LivingWaterPlease]

OTW, I agree with Satu and Lonewalker that your STBX may be exhibiting strong traits of a mental disorder. Significantly, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., emotional instability, verbal abuse, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you), and repeated cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back -- are some of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would also suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Satu and Lonewalker in discussing them with you. Take care, OTW.

 

Downtown, not to t/j but there's someone in my life with BPD and I need to know how to deal with the person. Have you ever written suggestions or do you recommend a particular book? Could you tell me where to get help living with it, without going to IC? Thanks.

[Downtown]

Downtown, not to t/j but there's someone in my life with BPD and I need to know how to deal with the person. Have you ever written suggestions or do you recommend a particular book? Could you tell me where to get help living with it, without going to IC? Thanks.

LWP, I provide some links pointing to good online resources at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/497493-so-many-questions-over-should-i-end-2.html#post5952450. If you have time to read it, that discussion with Junior actually begins at post #7 in that thread. The two best selling books (targeted to the abused family members) are Stop Walking on Eggshells and I Hate You: Don't Leave Me. If you would like to start your own thread on this subject, I would be glad to join the discussion if you PM me so I know where to look.

[LivingWaterPlease]

LWP, I provide some links pointing to good online resources at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/497493-so-many-questions-over-should-i-end-2.html#post5952450. If you have time to read it, that discussion with Junior actually begins at post #7 in that thread. The two best selling books (targeted to the abused family members) are Stop Walking on Eggshells and I Hate You: Don't Leave Me. If you would like to start your own thread on this subject, I would be glad to join the discussion if you PM me so I know where to look.

 

Thanks so much, Downtown.

[outthewindow]

Ken,

 

I really don't know if that's a great idea for you... It's your choice of course but it seems like she wants to cake eat to paraphrase some others on here.

 

Think about what you want. Is that the kind of relationship you would be happy with? I had to make this choice too, and it was damn hard! But I decided I deserve better. So much better, and I think you do too but it's your relationship and only you can be the judge of that.

 

Sending you hugs,

OTW

[outthewindow]

Oh I forgot to answer the divorce question...

 

If both parties agree, as soon as the paperwork is done and submitted to court the court gives you their first available date and then it's just a rubber stamp type procedure. 15mins and it's done. And it usually takes about 2-3 months for an available date. Very business like... :/

[outthewindow]

Downtown,

It's possible, of course, that he has BPD but reading that list it could describe me too... Am I BPD? I really don't know.

 

I think there's something going on with him, but what it is I have no idea. He's not a terrible person. He and I just don't seem to work together. The way he has behaved towards me is crap, but everything he has done to me, I've allowed to happen so I need to take equal responsibility for it.

 

And to be honest, it doesn't much matter anymore. I'm done and now it's time for me to focus on myself.

 

I'm sorry. I guess that's not really helpful but after almost a decade of this rubbish I need to try and put it behind me and move on.

[kenmore]

Ken,

 

I really don't know if that's a great idea for you... It's your choice of course but it seems like she wants to cake eat to paraphrase some others on here.

 

Think about what you want. Is that the kind of relationship you would be happy with? I had to make this choice too, and it was damn hard! But I decided I deserve better. So much better, and I think you do too but it's your relationship and only you can be the judge of that.

 

Sending you hugs,

OTW

 

Thanks for your opinion OTW. Yeah, I know. I am trying to understand if that would make me happier or just perpetually frustrated. Some of it may just be the longing to be with her and trying to find a way. In the long run, I'm sure you're right.

 

I really appreciate your input. You have been trying to reach out to me and understand / help me with this idea. I guess nobody else has an opinion, or they see it as so damned ridiculous that it doesn't even deserve comment and I can respect that. And as you say, it's ultimately my decision assuming the possibility even exists, which it probably won't, so I guess it doesn't matter anyway.

[DSP]

Downtown,

It's possible, of course, that he has BPD but reading that list it could describe me too... Am I BPD? I really don't know.

 

I think there's something going on with him, but what it is I have no idea. He's not a terrible person. He and I just don't seem to work together. The way he has behaved towards me is crap, but everything he has done to me, I've allowed to happen so I need to take equal responsibility for it.

 

And to be honest, it doesn't much matter anymore. I'm done and now it's time for me to focus on myself.

 

I'm sorry. I guess that's not really helpful but after almost a decade of this rubbish I need to try and put it behind me and move on.

 

Are you BPD?

 

That is the classic response to someone who has lived with a BPD person as well.

 

Read up on BPD you will be surprised. GirlStillStrong was alluding to this in the beginning I do believe.

 

Might want to follow up your formal education of BPD with what Co Dependency is.

 

If you do this now you will have a deeper understanding of these types of mental illnesses and will see the warning signs quickly in the next soul you cross paths with. It will give you general understanding of what you just went through, why and how to heal from it.

[Stuck75]

OTW- It sounds like you are on your way to moving on with your life in a positive way! I know that it's not easy and I'm sure you will have good days and bad. I just wanted to say that I think it is wonderful that you seem to have come such a long way in accepting and moving on. I think you will be just fine- in fact probably so much better off in the future!

 

Regarding the personality disorder- even though you don't need to understand it for him, it's probably a good idea to understand it for you (as someone else mentioned) so you can recognize the signs in the future. I've wondered about this with my husband as well - except with PAPD (passive-aggressive PD). Unfortunately, I believe it's easier to deal with a bonafide mental illness (schizophenia or Bipolar Disorder) rather than a personality disorder.

 

Sending hugs and support! Good luck to you!

[kenmore]

I think unless someone has actually diagnosed someone personally and has a degree in psychology , it's not a good idea to go putting labels on people. I know I defended someone who did this last week and maybe that makes me bi..something. It's OK to have an opinion, but don't kick someone who is down. I did end up apologizing and admitting I had over-reacted.

 

OTW is hurt. I think that's understandable considering the circumstances and there's no need to go putting labels on her now! In fact, she has seemed to me to be one of the most consistent people I have seen here.

 

Anyone who is in a difficult relationship (and that includes me) which is on and off or mixed signals will naturally not know how to feel. How can anyone wonder why someone changes their response when the spouse or SO changes what they put out? As far as I know, my wife is the only person who has remained fixed in her stance regardless of anything, but even she has wavered and she's the most pig-headed person I know by a long shot!

 

I know you mean well, but please let the psychologists do the diagnosing, and let us do the advising and comforting and gut pouring. That's our place IMO.

[Stuck75]

Kenmore- I'm not sure who your post is directed toward, but I think there may be some confusion. I did not imply that OTW has a personality disorder and I agree 100% that it's not our place to diagnose people. I was implying that if she suspects her exH to have one, it may be a good idea to understand it and learn to look for the signs so she does not end up with a similar type of personality. Actually, it's probably wise for most of us to seek counseling to understand the dynamics of these R so as not to repeat the cycle. Good luck to you in your situation!

[Downtown]

...please let the psychologists do the diagnosing.

Ken, nobody on this thread has attempted to diagnose anyone. You are confusing "spotting warning signs" for "making a diagnosis." There is a world of difference between those two actions. For example, although most adult women know how to identify the warning signs for breast cancer, they don't have sufficient training to be able to diagnose it. Similarly, most adults are capable of spotting the warning signs for BPD if they take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list.

 

Before you graduated high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur.

 

Importantly, spotting BPD traits does not imply a person "has BPD." Indeed, BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that one "has" or "doesn't have." Rather, it is simply a group of basic human behaviors that everyone has to some degree. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder." At issue, then, is not whether OTW's H is exhibiting BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether he is exhibiting them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., whether he is on the upper half of the BPD spectrum). OTW's response seems to suggest he is not and, in any event, she no longer cares because "it no longer matters" and she is "done" with him.

 

It's not a good idea to go putting labels on people.

We are not trying to label any "people" but, rather, the behaviors described by OTW. She asked for help in understanding certain behaviors. She asked, for example, "Why is he acting this way if he wants to divorce me?" and "Why cant he be clear on what he wants?" To understand a person's behavior, it is essential to look beyond the individual behavioral traits and spot the patterns of behavior. Significantly, those patterns have names, i.e., "labels." With that label, you can unlock a world of online information using Google. (Incidentally, Ken, I am so jealous: San Diego is my favorite city in the world.)

[anika99]

Has he always been this emotionally unstable? If not when did this behaviour start? Where is he staying now and where did he stay when he used to leave for just a day or two at a time?

 

 

If this is relatively new behaviour for him have you considered the possibility that he is in an affair? Often times spouses will describe their cheating wives/husbands as someone they don't recognize, they are angry then loving, attentive then withdrawn, they say they want to leave and then they want to stay. They are unpredictable, confused, and the things they say don't make sense.

 

 

If this is an affair it would explain a lot of his push/pull flip flopping behaviour but if it's not an affair he definitely has some mental illness or personality disorder.

[kenmore]

Again I find myself apologizing. I misread some of the posts and thought people were suggesting OTW was BPD.

 

I can't stand to see anyone victimized so stepped in. After re-reading the posts, I see the error was on my part.

 

I guess it's the hotheaded Italian in me. I know I need to think more before reacting, I just don't always know when...

 

Sorry.

 

Ken

 

PS, Downtown, no offense but you should love SD, it's friggin' awesome here! I hope you can visit sometime soon and let me know, we can get together!

[dreamingoftigers]

Hi Out the window.

 

I am in a very similar circumstance to you.

 

I have been with my husband 9.5 years, married 8.5. For the last six years he has dumped and undumped me repeatedly. He will disappear for days or weeks at a time then calsome back full on and say he will

 

 

Thank you, all of you! Really, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

 

Today is his birthday, so being the idiot that I am I called to wish him a happy birthday. Throughout the day he has called me 4 times wanting to come over, not wanting to come over. Telling me how alone and lonely he feels, and how this is the worst time of his life.

 

I know that I enable him. I know it, I just can't figure out how to stop myself.

 

In the end I told him this wasn't ok, that I'm not his friend, he can't expect me to be there to support him when he doesn't do the same for me. I told him I didn't want to speak to him any more... Then he asked if we could get together after Christmas to exchange gifts. What? Why?

 

I said no, I really didn't want to speak to him anymore so he tells me that he'll just text then.

 

He told me again that he doesn't want to work on us, so why is he doing this? Why can't he just let me go and stop torturing me?

 

I'm sitting here typing this through my tears. I'm devastated, just devastated. I know I deserve better than this. Yet I can't help feeling that I'm losing everything. I guess in a way I am. I'm the one that must pack up my life here and fly to the other side of the world. I'm the one who has to say goodbye to my friends here... Leave my cats behind... Leave my home behind and start again from nothing.

 

I'm so lost and alone here. And I can't get my head around the fact the this is the same guy I married. The one that used to make me feel like I could do anything, and now makes me feel like absolute rubbish. How did I become so disposable? How did I become do less than? And how do I get myself back?

 

I don't know if I'm going to make it. I just can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. My life has collapsed around me and I'm stuck in this horrid abyss.

[outthewindow]

Ken,

I'm not sure how much contact there is between you and your ex, but limiting it will give you some space to think clearer about the relationship and about what you want... I hope you work things out in a way that makes it ok for you. At the end of the day, no matter how much you love her, you need to be ok first.

 

DSP,

I know I'm at least a little co-dependant. And I know he is at least a little BPD. As a combination we bounce off each other and things seem to just get worse...

As with most people, with a little distance I can see that but while I was in the midst of it it wasn't so clear to me. I'm trying to work through my issues, at the end of the day I can only control what I do.

[outthewindow]

Stuck,

As I mentioned in my post above, with a little distance things have become a lot clearer. As always, when I'm in the middle of it all I can't see the woods for the trees.

 

I'm spending a lot of time on myself at the moment. Reading, journaling, having long hot baths and going for a lot of walks... It's helping. I also have some amazing people around me that prop me up when I'm down.

 

I think dealing with a PD or a mental illness is just as hard as each other. If your partner can see it in themselves and want to get help and actually do something about it then I think it's possible to forge ahead with your relationship. If they won't, well, you're just fooling yourself on a daily basis until it all becomes too much for you and the only way is out. Either way, it kills not only your relationship but your self esteem and your mental health too.

 

I'm sending you hugs and strength to face what you need to, which ever way you decide to go. The only advice I can give you is to try and get some distance, even if it's for a couple of weeks, to clear your head and build your strength up for the next round.

[dreamingoftigers]

Sorry I guess I made an incomplete post there.

 

I have been with my husband for 9.5 years.

 

He comes and goes and wants a divorce then wants his family. He seems to put the responsibility for his anger and sobriety on me and then claims he doesn't.

 

I have lost my temper a lot as well.

I think I may be verbally abusive (at least critical) but he most definitely is.

 

He has been gone at this point for three days.

 

Granted we had an altercation. I think he just gets very hostile with me to be able to justify disappearing.

 

He usually takes most if not all of the money with him too. He withholds sex.

 

My self-esteem is in the toilet from dealing with this cycle for so long.

 

holy crap he just contacted me.

 

This is so messed up.

I feel so kicked in the head all of the time.

[outthewindow]

Anika,

He has always been like this. Well, for our entire marriage anyway. It's gotten worse with time. The more problems we had, either with each other or from outside 'forces' the worse he got.

 

He may well be having an affair, but I don't think his behavior is because of that.

 

TBH, I think he's just really emotionally immature. He has always had a hard time dealing with things and being supportive during a crisis but when everything is fine he's great. And I don't mean when we are fighting, but for instance when my father got sick and died, he just shut down and couldn't be there for me. He tends to bottle things up and eventually he explodes. Usually by telling me he wants a divorce. And I honestly think it's because he is unable to process and discuss negative things.

 

Maybe that makes him BPD, maybe not.

 

But it does make him someone I can't count on to be there for me when I need him. And regardless of a possible affair or not, that means I can't stay with him. Because I want that in a partner.

[outthewindow]

Tigers,

Mine didn't disappear. He would explode and pack and storm out but he would go overnight and text and call the entire time he was gone. If he went for longer it's because I wanted him to, and again he would constantly text and call and want to come back.

Even now, it's been two weeks since the last (and final) time he told me he wanted a divorce when I kicked him out and took his keys and this time he is adamant that he doesn't want to work on our marriage but he still calls and texts constantly and wants to see me.

 

It's taken me MANY years of this poo to finally decide that I deserved better, and so do you! It also took me a long time to realize that everything he did, I allowed him to do. I enabled his behavior by letting him come back with no consequences each time and because of that things would always stay the same.

 

Someone said that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result... Two weeks ago I decided not to be insane anymore.

 

As I said it took me many years to get to this point. For some people, getting there is quicker, for some it's longer. But almost all of us get to breaking point eventually.

 

When you get to breaking point, you'll know. You'll know because the thought of losing him won't be anywhere near as scary or painful as the thought of staying with him. And then it will be your time to stop the insanity.

 

Sending you hugs and strength.

Edited January 2, 2015 by outthewindow

[dreamingoftigers]

Btw Downtown,

 

I thought years ago that he had BPD.

 

We have very much in common and he seemed to mirror many of the traits I had when I was younger.

 

I asked my .MC about it and she said no.

 

But then she went on to say that he didn't have the addictions that he later was caught having.

 

Plus she told us about a time that she "talked to her VCR to fix it."

 

We stopped seeing her after an ethical breach as well.

 

I hadn't revisited it since.

Until I looked at the list again.

 

All traits except one.

[Downtown]

He would explode and pack and storm out but he would go overnight and text and call the entire time he was gone.

If he has strong BPD traits, OTW, that is the behavior you would expect. Because a BPDer has a weak self image, he will hate being alone because he needs a woman with a strong personality to help ground him and center him -- providing a sense of purpose, identity, and direction. And, when he gets exactly that, he will resent her for being so "controlling," a powerful feeling he has even though it is not grounded in reality. Hence, with a BPDer, you are always in a lose/lose situation, being damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

Moreover, BPDers have a weak self image and -- to the extent they have any persistent self image at all -- it is of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." This means that, in order to validate that false self image, they must frequently blame their partners for every misfortune that befalls them -- and take responsibility for NONE of their own mistakes. This is why the second-best selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called I Hate You, Don't Leave Me.

[outthewindow]

Ok, I'm struggling today.

 

I don't know why but suddenly I miss him.

 

I know it's stupid, and that our relationship was bad enough for me to want a divorce, and I still do, but God I miss him today...

 

Does that stop? Will I ever stop missing him?