Author VeryBrokenMan Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 a post nuptial agreement can only protect some of your assets, but in my opinion not the most important, if you get my meaning. I'm not sure I do? Are you talking about protecting my heart? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I still have love for her. Think about what you've written. You didn't say "I'm in love with her" or "We're in love" or "she loves me", all of which would imply some reciprocated feeling and action. You probably still do have love for her. I'd hope you'd soon ask yourself how long you'll live with such a one-sided situation... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 This: It's obviously very confusing to me and I want to believe her. ... goes a long way towards helping her accomplish this: And I'm starting to feel like she is manipulating me but she is an amazing actress if that is the case. Link to post Share on other sites
mikethemechanic Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) My wife had multiple affairs on me and every time she was caught she expressed profound guilt and apologized and admitted to cheating and said that now she knows why she cheated. WS went from deleting every male friend on FB to even female friends who were suspected of cheating on their husbands but in the end she went back to cheating because that is who she is, that is her nature a cheater. Imagine having a convicted pedophile watching your kids are somebody else's nobody even someone espoused nurturing would never let a convicted pedophile babysit their children at night. What needs to be done is to determine how your wife's affair started so that you can best predict how the next one will start,an example in my case my wife was going out to the bar with her girlfriends and one of her male friends happen to show up at the same watering hole and the two of them just kept getting closer and closer physically and then romantically and when the affair came to ahead it was always my fault! I didn't listen to her we didn't communicate enough, more importantly she played the martyr. we went to counseling, took trips TOLD me she was in love with me but then behind my back she was having an affair one can only imagine what was being said to the om. Read the book TOO CLOSE TOO SOON. Sometimes there's too much analogy; the idea that we can predict someone's behavior by pulling up all these facts and drawing upon them to give the best possible outcome isn't realible. The gunman and the sheriff are not morally equivalent the difference is one will have to pull the trigger first in a gunfight. meaning that at some point you're going to have to leave your wife even if it's a moral issue. Edited January 15, 2015 by mikethemechanic Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 We had a very long talk last night, about 7 hours and it was really tough but we got through it. I basically just was honest and started out by telling her what I had talked about with my IC. I told her I've been considering divorce and was going to be making a decision. I had some moments of clarity after reading a lot of things here and with my IC yesterday and was able to see the relationship for what it was. I told her she has been very self centered and entitled throughout our marriage. Basically the relationship has been all about her and what she wants. Any problems in the relationship over the years she blamed me for and did not take responsibility for her part. She admitted that she had done that and it was wrong. I was able to go through these points one by one last night and clearly show her where the relationship was so one-sided. There was a lot of personal growth on her part the last couple of weeks. She agreed with a lot of what I've been saying and seemed to really get and was truly remorseful. Her responses were not what the've been in the past but truly candid and believable. I also asked about some details about the affair and some sexual details that she willing provided also all believable. Overall I feel pretty good about last night. Time will tell if this new attitude holds and we move forward. I'm not convinced even given all this I can stay but it's a good step in the right direction. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Selfish Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 We had a very long talk last night, about 7 hours and it was really tough but we got through it. I basically just was honest and started out by telling her what I had talked about with my IC. I told her I've been considering divorce and was going to be making a decision. I had some moments of clarity after reading a lot of things here and with my IC yesterday and was able to see the relationship for what it was. I told her she has been very self centered and entitled throughout our marriage. Basically the relationship has been all about her and what she wants. Any problems in the relationship over the years she blamed me for and did not take responsibility for her part. She admitted that she had done that and it was wrong. I was able to go through these points one by one last night and clearly show her where the relationship was so one-sided. There was a lot of personal growth on her part the last couple of weeks. She agreed with a lot of what I've been saying and seemed to really get and was truly remorseful. Her responses were not what the've been in the past but truly candid and believable. I also asked about some details about the affair and some sexual details that she willing provided also all believable. Overall I feel pretty good about last night. Time will tell if this new attitude holds and we move forward. I'm not convinced even given all this I can stay but it's a good step in the right direction. Good job. Communication is a wonderful thing if both people participate. But it is still just talk. You are right though, whatever path you end up choosing it was a step in the right direction. Now it is time to see if her words match up to her actions. It is easy to say you need to work on issues and are x,y,z. Actually doing those is where the proof lies. Link to post Share on other sites
mikethemechanic Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Has the question ever occurred to you how will you know if the affair ended? So what would be the equivalent action if your wife has an affair again does your threat-make it unthinkable for your wife to even want to have another affair for fear of the equivalent re-action. It's obvious that you see your wife as a logical rational human being where her actions are prodictable.however you cannot ascertain that you know what she's currently thinking. It would be better to cast Dice them to predict her future behavior.The reality is you are just going along with the cheating you are the martyr not her and every time she fails you'll be back on here forgiving her, while giving her another chance telling us that you can't leave her because it's immoral when in reality-you are infatuated with your wife. Link to post Share on other sites
Pinklotus Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't think she really loves him. I think she really loves you, and she is in the fog, as so many others have stated. If she keeps working to keep you, you will know for sure. Counseling yet? Speaking as a former wayward spouse (EA) and as a woman....the affair fog does make you slightly crazy. When it lifts, you see the light. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
atreides Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'm not sure I do? Are you talking about protecting my heart? Yes but with your relationship, what matters in a marriage, what makes a "marriage" a marriage vs a roommate. What likely hurts you the most from her betrayal. Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Has the question ever occurred to you how will you know if the affair ended? So what would be the equivalent action if your wife has an affair again does your threat-make it unthinkable for your wife to even want to have another affair for fear of the equivalent re-action. It's obvious that you see your wife as a logical rational human being where her actions are prodictable.however you cannot ascertain that you know what she's currently thinking. It would be better to cast Dice them to predict her future behavior.The reality is you are just going along with the cheating you are the martyr not her and every time she fails you'll be back on here forgiving her, while giving her another chance telling us that you can't leave her because it's immoral when in reality-you are infatuated with your wife. I hope your wrong but what your saying is possible. But I plan to have my eyes and ears wide open as we go forward. She knows any further affairs or even the hint of one and we are done. She has opened up everything, all her FB/email accounts, phone, accounts for where she is every minute and does not complain. She is being an open book and I know the affair is over. My PI told me he was done a month ago, he can't find any traces. I fully admit that I'm both in love and in lust with my wife. She is an incredibly beautiful, sexy and intelligent woman that could have any man she wants yet she says she wants to stay with me. And after last night I believe her. Other than cheating I can live with all her other flaws. Not sure I can get past the cheating yet but I'm going to try if we stay on this path. Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't think she really loves him. I think she really loves you, and she is in the fog, as so many others have stated. If she keeps working to keep you, you will know for sure. Counseling yet? Speaking as a former wayward spouse (EA) and as a woman....the affair fog does make you slightly crazy. When it lifts, you see the light. I think the fog has been lifting pretty quickly in the past couple of weeks and it cleared completely last night. She really is getting the damage she has caused and the consequences of what she has done have set in. I think she realized last night that I'm deadly serious about divorce. Not sure she thought I had it in me before last night. The papers were ready when I confronted her with the ultimatum as I expected her to want to end it. But she told me that day she wanted to stay together(and I was shocked) so everything has been on hold. We've both been seeing an IC since it broke, so 3 months now. Thanks for your input! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
insert_name Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I have a hard time believing that someone who was incapable (to a scary extent) of having any empathy for you a month ago and saw things only from her own persoective and how hard done by she was in the marriage now suddenly understands that she is the one at fault for a lot of it and that she is readily accepting that blame. It seems a little too convenient and sounds like while you are reeling off your list of issues she is just blindly saying "yes" to everything because her goal is to tell you what you want to hear so it can all be brushed under the carpet ASAP. Of course I do not know her and cannot see her actions so my theorising is probably worthless based on that. Dont forget you do have one last absolutely golden trick still left up your sleeve to make sure your wife is staying honest, as a poster earlier suggested, leave it a couple more months and then hit her with a surprise polygraph test. Her reaction alone to the mere suggestion will show you wehter she is playing you for a fool or whether she has nothing left to hide. Good luck. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Dlucio1 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'm so sorry for u Very Brokenman. Many spouses find out about their WS affairs, but when it involves finding horrific love messages between them and the AP can just kill ur heart. The pain is Unbareable. I'm in the same boat as u are. Mine happened more than 2 years ago. I still have all the FB messages, and copies of text msgs that the AP sent me via email. When it's an EA, I think it is so much worst. My husband gave his heart to his woman who he knew from the past. I've never been the same. I regret forgiving him. The marriage will never b the same anymore if u decide to stay with her. Even if she is doing her part in helping to heal u and the marriage, u will still look at her with discust. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Josmatjes Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 31 years is a very long time. You don't mention if you have kids. Affairs are awful but maybe you can both learn from this and move forward. I had an affair after 18 yrs of marriage.id never cheated before...on anyone for that matter.all I know is that I was feeling lost and made bad choices. My affair was about me! Not my husband or my marriage. I still love him and believe me my affair was super intense with many tears shed in the end...but we are trying to work through the pain together. I hope you can really talk to her about your true feelings and go to counciling... Good luck 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Steez Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I hope your wrong but what your saying is possible. But I plan to have my eyes and ears wide open as we go forward. She knows any further affairs or even the hint of one and we are done. She has opened up everything, all her FB/email accounts, phone, accounts for where she is every minute and does not complain. She is being an open book and I know the affair is over. My PI told me he was done a month ago, he can't find any traces. I fully admit that I'm both in love and in lust with my wife. She is an incredibly beautiful, sexy and intelligent woman that could have any man she wants yet she says she wants to stay with me. And after last night I believe her. Other than cheating I can live with all her other flaws. Not sure I can get past the cheating yet but I'm going to try if we stay on this path. You wonder why the relationship is one sided, look at the bolded and underlined sentence you wrote. It's one sided because you put her on a pedestal. You are not a consolation prize. She should be the one lucky to be with you. You have to be ready to take her off that pedestal and treat her like your wife and a fellow human being, not a goddess. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Confused48 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Think about what Darren said. To build on that, some other wise people here have said things like, my WS is no longer the great wonderful person I thought they were. I no longer think how lucky I am to be with this person. Not such a great option as I thought. The WS is torn down from the pedestal, came down and wallowed in the gutter. Not that you then despise them. But certainly you can see they are not the great prize you thought you had won. You are not the luckiest man on earth anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
Buckeye2 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I agree, she is not the same girl I married and that's getting more clear day by day. And I'm starting to feel like she is manipulating me but she is an amazing actress if that is the case. She’s not acting at all. Let’s say they you robbed banks. It was an exciting time while it lasted and you resented being caught. It’s was so unfair. Now the dust has settled and your trial is over. You’re facing 20 years in jail. Of course you’re remorseful. You wish to God that you never began robbing banks. You sincerely feel like an idiot. Now you’re on your best behavior doing anything you can think of to reduce your 20 year sentence. If you were never caught or faced jail timeyou would be very pleased with yourself for robbing banks. She is saying and doing all the right things at the moment. It's obviously very confusing to me and I want to believe her. She is still a beautiful and sexy woman regardless of what she has done and I still have love for her. You’re giving her credit for looking out for her own self interests. Don’t let her break your heart again. Think of it as a business deal. You give her a good lifestyle and you have an anattractive woman taking care of your needs. When she's under the gun she will tell you what you want to hear and give you sex. It's a good deal for both of you. Edited January 18, 2015 by Buckeye2 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I also asked about some details about the affair and some sexual details that she willing provided also all believable. Overall I feel pretty good about last night. Time will tell if this new attitude holds and we move forward. I'm not convinced even given all this I can stay but it's a good step in the right direction. Let me guess at what she told you about the sexual details: - they didn't have sex very often - no orgasms for her, in fact very little enjoyment - only became sexual because he wanted to - he was aggressor / pursuer - whatever your favorite act/position, didn't do it - sex continued to keep him interested - it was only sex, no real feelings involved Am I close ??? Mr. Lucky 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Pinklotus Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I think the fog has been lifting pretty quickly in the past couple of weeks and it cleared completely last night. She really is getting the damage she has caused and the consequences of what she has done have set in. I think she realized last night that I'm deadly serious about divorce. Not sure she thought I had it in me before last night. The papers were ready when I confronted her with the ultimatum as I expected her to want to end it. But she told me that day she wanted to stay together(and I was shocked) so everything has been on hold. We've both been seeing an IC since it broke, so 3 months now. Thanks for your input! I'm glad. Are you going to to MC together? I still can't explain what compelled me to engage in an EA after so many years of being a totally faithful spouse. It was uncharacteristic of me. Even as a single woman, I would never flirt or date others once a commitment was made. I can only say that my IC and MC made me a better person and our marriage a stronger marriage. We were rug sweeping some issues and resentments and over the years, that builds up. Not an excuse by any means. I can also tell you that when I was in the fog, it was almost like I was under a spell. I still felt love for my husband and I knew that rationally he was much better for me and that I should not jeopardize our marriage. Yet I became obsessed with the OM and all rational thought flew out the window. Once I finally had the courage to go NC, my fog rapidly lifted. I realized how crazy the whole thing was. I realized how fortunate I was to have the love of my husband. Even after NC and marriage counseling made our marriage so much better, I felt such guilt that I confessed. A difficult thing to do, made slightly easier by the fact that there had been no PA. Hardest weekend of my life, but it also made our marriage stronger. The counseling has shown me that affairs are usually more about unmet needs, addictive behavior, and unresolved childhood conflicts and trauma than true love. It might feel like love, she might act like it's love, but in reality, it's more likely one of the above. That doesn't make it easier for the BS when you are hearing these phone calls and conversations about their feelings. But their feelings aren't real, not the way her feelings are for you. Is her OM the one who helps pay the bills? Helps the kids with their homework? Runs to the store when she's sick to buy meds or ginger ale? Helps with the house, cooking, shopping, etc? Loves her when she's got the flu? In short, is there all the time for her? Of course not. It's all a fake thing. The feelings seems real, but it's all an escape. A fantasy. A way to run from responsibility or conflict. In our case, we realized that we were not spending enough time alone. We needed more special couple time. I realized that I needed to speak up and tell my husband what I needed and not be afraid of hurting his feelings so much if there was something going on I didn't like. He realized he needed to listen more. In short, all those cliches that you read about that are supposed to rejuvenate your marriage, were true for us, and really did help. Do I still think about the OM? Yes. He was like an addiction, I was wildly attracted to him both physically and emotionally, and he has some qualities that my husband doesn't. Some of those qualities were irresistible, others made me realize what a terrible long term partner the OM would be. The difference now is that I realize that addictive love and feelings are not real or a recipe for happiness, and I also realize that I can never, ever, do anything that would betray my husband. I invest in him and our marriage and think like a grown up. In other words....I'm married, so I act like it. It is possible to recover, and I wish you and your wife the best. I can't recall if you said you read Not Just Friends? Highly rec! Edited January 19, 2015 by Pinklotus Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I think the fog has been lifting pretty quickly in the past couple of weeks and it cleared completely last night. She really is getting the damage she has caused and the consequences of what she has done have set in. I think she realized last night that I'm deadly serious about divorce. Not sure she thought I had it in me before last night. The papers were ready when I confronted her with the ultimatum as I expected her to want to end it. But she told me that day she wanted to stay together(and I was shocked) so everything has been on hold. We've both been seeing an IC since it broke, so 3 months now. Thanks for your input! Based n her phone conversation with her OM - I don't think she's sorry she cheated - she's sorry you caught her. Is she working? Does she pay her own way? Can she support herself? She may be wanting to stay because she enjoys not working - and you paying her way. Why not have her move out for a good year - and see how much work she does with a counselor to change the cheater she's become? See if she makes effort to change her character. Why go back when she's still broken and unfaithful? It looks like settling... Let her struggle and be uncomfortable enough to change who she is. Link to post Share on other sites
BeatsByDirk Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 This is a tough situation! It wouldn't be for me but from what I've gleaned from OP's post he is gonna have a hard time letting go. There are certain aspects of relationships/the male-female dynamic that I like to pick on when people disclose an affair and the motivations behind them. Early in this forum post OP posted: Originally Posted by cif As a woman I can tell you, thinking of another man touching me absolutely disgusts me. But I am in love with my husband. Wow, that is really telling coming from a woman, thanks. I feel the same way about other women and she knows that, she has even said she knows I'd never do this to her. I'm not a pushover, just hopelessly in love with my wife I guess and I like to think I have character." There are going to be plenty of people who disagree with me but I strongly feel that when a man feels that having sex with other women other than their wife makes them feel sick that the woman will eventually cheat if that is within her nature. The reason I feel like that is because his wife said: 01:36:00 He has always been obsessed with me. Always. I believe that this is a huge problem in relationships. I feel often times a husband will work hard and try to make his wife happy because he loves and adores her but eventually the wife comes to resent the effort and devalue him as a sexual partner because he has stopped behaving like a man(no desire to spread seed). Many could interpret my position as saying to cheat or that a woman will automatically cheat because her husband doesn't want sex from other women. I'm trying to point out, As people, we can't override our animal instincts indefinitely and while some people can do it for far longer periods than others and although some relationships endure situations where the male has lost his predatory sex drive, I believe it can be hard for some women who have more animal/chemical sexual reactions to continue to be sexually attracted to their partner and will eventually lead her to not see him as a viable sex partner in response to his lack of sexual credibility. I feel it's in a married man'a best interest to keep his tools sharp(being able, knowing you are able, having your partner know you are able to find another suitable partner if you should so choose) and having standards for your partner that are non-negotiables could quell some of the animal instinct to find a MORE viable and worthy partner when the husband has lost Kingship over his castle. OP seems capable but not confident and that might have been the crack in the window that allowed his wife to believe he was "obsessed with her" to the point where she believes as long as she shows you what you want to see, you would be too weak to leave her... I'm inclined to believe that this is truly the case and that she is right. I wish OP good luck, I hope he can get peace and move forward without feeling like he compromised his self-respect to do so. Staying or going is a hard decision when you are in love and on the inside of the after affair prison. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mikethemechanic Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 @verybrokenman I gonna say this with courage in the hope that you rebuke me calling for an apology and if you do ask for an apology I will issue a public apology. Now after spending much time going over your story I think your WW is an ex dancer. I call you out tell me I'm wrong and I'll apologize. This is the main trait amongst men who date hot women whose creed is that a man is a financial plan. Link to post Share on other sites
Oberfeldwebel Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 First let me say that I think that you have come a long way in a short period of time. Secondly, I think that most relationships can be saved if both parties put in the hard work to fix the problems. Both of you are addressing these issues in counseling and seems promising, so that is a good thing. I think that you also need to remember that though you love her, that it is not good to put her on a pedestal. Marriages work best when it is a relationship of equals. It appears from her comments that she just assumed that you would be there regardless of what she did and felt entitled to indulge her selfish desires. When she realized that there was a high price to pay for this affair, she changed her mind. The farther she gets away from the affair the more you should both be able to heal. Still you need to put boundaries in place, create bonding events and keep your eyes open going forward. Best of luck to you and your family. Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 You wonder why the relationship is one sided, look at the bolded and underlined sentence you wrote. It's one sided because you put her on a pedestal. You are not a consolation prize. She should be the one lucky to be with you. You have to be ready to take her off that pedestal and treat her like your wife and a fellow human being, not a goddess. Guilty as charged. I need to change that thinking for sure. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Let me guess at what she told you about the sexual details: - they didn't have sex very often - no orgasms for her, in fact very little enjoyment - only became sexual because he wanted to - he was aggressor / pursuer - whatever your favorite act/position, didn't do it - sex continued to keep him interested - it was only sex, no real feelings involved Am I close ??? Mr. Lucky That is what she said almost exactly and has stuck by all those items. Are you saying they all say that? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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