After three years of NC, MM has contacted me again.

[Decisiontomake]

Oh OP I've just seen this guy's wife is pregnant. How painful for you - I can't imagine seeing that of my "just ex AP". Would kill me. I can get where you are with feeling good with him being back in contact etc but you seem to have done so well for such a long time. I hope you find the strength to keep him out of your life honey - nothing has changed for him but for you you've had three years of no angst, getting on with your life and not needing him. Remember that, and use it now when you need it most x

[Poppy47]

You know Kismet, everybody here advised to NOT to get involved again.

 

Here you are sitting in the rain, being miserable because you did.

[bathtub-row]

:-) i thought it was a bit funny as well, no worries

 

Not for nothing but it was some of the best sex I ever had. There is something to be said for a good passionate connection.

 

The stuff after that? No thanks....as I said, I told him I'm in no way interested in falling back into patterns of "will he or won't he show up" followed by passionate love making, only to have him look at the time and realise that if he's not home in 20 minutes questions will be asked. F**k that. I do not wish for that ever again.

 

I'm totally with you on this one. Great lovemaking isn't a good enough reason when it's followed by such hurtful feelings. I know this one well.

[bathtub-row]

Well, she's trying to monitor him. I suppose she can't see what he does 24 hours a day, but she's suspicious of nearly everything these days.

 

Yes I think it was helpful to see his face while I talk to him. I'll lie if I say there's no attraction anymore. We're both ten years older than when we met but I'd say there's still an attraction both ways. But he's not going to like, pounce on me and make out with me in a coffee shop.

 

He basically kept asking if we can stay in touch when I leave because he doesnt want to lose me from his life again, which is odd because as long as he is married I don't know how we could even be real friends. If she so much as heard my name again she'd flip out, nevermind allowing him to hang out at the same events as me or be friendly with me in ANY way.

 

Not sure what his agenda is. Seems just potential emotional masochism for both with it not going anywhere.

 

My xMM once joked about his wife and how suspicious she was of him. He said, "I don't know why she doesn't trust me!" We were smack in the middle of our long-term affair and it was one of the few times he joked about our situation.

 

Unlike the majority here, I'm glad you saw your xMM. Our situations seem to be very similar in that it's been 10 yrs for me and xMM, also. I won't give up his friendship unless he does it first. It took me awhile to figure that part out but that's where I'm at with it. I don't know if your xMM has an agenda or not but it may be as simple as him not wanting to lose that tie with you. You have to decide if it's healthy for you or not. For me, I know that wild horses couldn't drag me back into that situation ever again but I enjoy seeing xMM 2 or 3 times a year and looking at him from across a restaurant table. I like the occasional texts he sends and whatever else happens. I don't take any of it seriously and it doesn't consume my mind, heart, or time like it used to. The reason? Because I lost hope. And when hope died, it all fell away. Still, I love him and he will always be a significant person in my life. It may be the same for you in your situation.

[bathtub-row]

I sat outside in the rain tonight, no umbrella. Just sat letting the cold water go over my face. Stared blankly ahead for i don't know how long. Probably looked like a crazy person just sitting there. I hate how he has this effect on me. I hate that I ever fell in love with him. I hate him for being a selfish ass**le. I hate him for staying married if he's so unhappy instead of divorcing years ago. I hate him for finding me again for no good effing reason. I dont know what to say or think anymore. I just feel sad right now.

 

Aw, man, I didn't read this before I wrote my other post. I'm really sorry. I hate those horrible, helpless feelings being resurrected. Hugs.

[KismetGirl]

Aw, man, I didn't read this before I wrote my other post. I'm really sorry. I hate those horrible, helpless feelings being resurrected. Hugs.

 

It's ok, I'm glad to get support in all manners, to all parts of my story.

 

I think somewhere deep deep DEEP in the back of my mind I have always wondered if maybe, just maybe, if he finally left her one day if he and I might end up together. It never seemed realistic, but as they say, crazier things can happen.

 

When he told me his wife is pregnant again it just seemed like such a shock. Like another nail in the already long-closed coffin of any chance that he and I would ever have a chance at a "normal" relationship.

 

When he told me yesterday and I flipped out on the phone, he texted me this morning to say he barely slept and was up all night thinking about me. How he hadn't wanted to upset me, how he wished it was different, how he cared about me and can't imagine not ever speaking to me again. I don't think he thinks about it enough. He compartamentalizes his life into these separate parts without thinking how they will all fit together.

 

he wants me as his friend forever, and yet really how is that even possible? Friends can be friends in open. As long as he is married we can't even really be friends. his wife would, with good reason, forbid it. I am curious to know what she would do if she knew he had reached out to me again, considering she is under the impression that they are "working" on their marriage what with the counseling and , apparently, a new baby on the way.

 

I have to say that in all these ten years I never thought to tell her anything (in fact i often went out of my way to help him hide the affair when he was too stupid to do it properly himself and always got caught).

 

The last 24 hours I am so tempted to let her know. I can't tell if its out of genuine concern that she keeps wasting her life on someone that doesnt really want to be with her, or out of spite, or more likely a bit of both.

 

In some ways I dont think she'd go anywhere anyway-- she doesnt really work, they are about to have FOUR effing children together, and he's definitely not financially well off enough to giver their family the lifestyle they are accostumed to if he is paying for two households.

 

but sometimes I wonder if she wouldnt be better off knowing that no amount of marital counseling, babies, or time is going to save that marriage. I suspect that eventually, maybe in 10-15 years when the kids are more grown, it will fall apart. I can't imagine how they can live a happly-ever-after if there has been such disrest from nearly the first year of the marriage. He was unhappy from the time I met him, which was only a couple years into his marriage. This doesnt bode well for a long, happy future together.

 

Maybe it's none of my business, but sometimes I wonder if she would want to know that after all this effort, all these years of therapy and counseling, that he has progressed not even a little bit into wanting to make it work. The only thing he's done is become more jaded, feels LESS guilty about what he's doing than in the beginning, and resents her more as time goes. She's about 41 years old I think. Not young but still young enough to find a man that actually WANTS to be with her, no?

[bathtub-row]

Well, given what we know about this situation (and I admit it's probably limited), I think she's an idiot to have another child, given the state of their relationship. There are a lot of women out there who aren't dumb enough to think that a child will save a relationship, but they are cunning enough to keep having kids in order to fully trap a man. It happens all the time and it seems that they're not overly concerned that their husbands are with them out of necessity instead of wanting to be. Personally, I would want no part of that, but I see it ALL THE TIME. You've gotta hand it to them, though, if all you want to do is keep someone around -- even if it's through control -- then they definitely accomplish that goal. And just in case someone misinterprets what I'm saying, I'll clarify. I'm not saying it's dumb for a woman to have children with her husband. I'm saying it's dumb to trap him deeper into a marriage that is falling apart in all other ways. This is exactly how children get caught in the middle of these messes.

 

I think it's possible that the reason you want to tell her is to shake things up as much as they can be shaken up. You would only upset a pregnant woman and make your xMM start acting out of guilt. Very rarely does anything positive come from that. Personally, I wouldn't want to be responsible for anything she might feel once that information was out. Do you really want to be responsible for hurting someone to that degree? I personally couldn't do it.

 

Your xMM helped create this situation and now the decision has basically been made. It's a sealed deal, unless something out of the ordinary happens. I know that my xMM is in a disconnected marriage but, the truth is, I stopped feeling sorry for him a long time ago and I stopped trying to figure out why he does what he does. Trying to figure out how or why other people think and act the way they do is completely futile. It was his choice to stay in his marriage and he's the one who gets to live with that choice. I'm sure that, for the most part, he's glad he stayed. He's glad he didn't go through a divorce and risk getting involved with me. Yet, he still enjoys whatever it is that we have. So, no matter how timeless it seems for us, or how intense, there is another entity of his life that has nothing to do with me and it trumps me...every time. That's why his advances toward me mean nothing and why I have no interest in giving in to him, because I know that everything he does is meaningless in terms of what I want from a man. That's really all I need to know. The rest is just noise.

 

As far as the friends thing, it is possible but not easy. The friendship between the two of you has to be very real in order for it to last. xMM and I have a very deep friendship and it's the thing that has held things together after all this time. That friendship is also what brought us back together after many break-ups, some of which I thought we'd never recover from. Friendship can be defined as many things so just because you think they should all fit into a certain category or way of being, it's not always like that. I'm not saying that what I do with xMM is the most healthy thing to do or that you should even do it, but the alternative doesn't work for me. I care too much about him and my life really is somewhat of a mess, somewhat empty, without him being at least somewhere in the background, somewhere within reach. In my case, it's just much better for me not to be on bad terms with my ex and know that I can talk to him or joke around if I feel inclined. The door stays open for communicating and I'm at peace with that.

Edited November 19, 2014 by bathtub-row

[Baby123]

Kismet girl, sorry

To say this but your the one that needs a reality check.

 

Your just as foolish as she is- you broke 3 years NC, went against all advice and met this man, only to be told he's got her pregnant again and is 'stuck' for another 18 years. Think about your own foolishness and where your going wrong by trying to keep a hold of this man despite the fact he is not available and has no plans to be- his story doesn't add up... I thought they were just roommates? But now they're roommates that have sex. That's quite intimate.

 

Also you think when the kids are old he'll leave, kismet by the time this kid is 18- she'll be 59, do you really think many men leave there wives at 60, when they didn't have the courage in there 30s or 40s. Men usually settle down and companionship and help in old age become more important than sex. There bond will only get stronger.

[KismetGirl]

Kismet girl, sorry

To say this but your the one that needs a reality check.

 

Your just as foolish as she is- you broke 3 years NC, went against all advice and met this man, only to be told he's got her pregnant again and is 'stuck' for another 18 years. Think about your own foolishness and where your going wrong by trying to keep a hold of this man despite the fact he is not available and has no plans to be- his story doesn't add up... I thought they were just roommates? But now they're roommates that have sex. That's quite intimate.

 

Also you think when the kids are old he'll leave, kismet by the time this kid is 18- she'll be 59, do you really think many men leave there wives at 60, when they didn't have the courage in there 30s or 40s. Men usually settle down and companionship and help in old age become more important than sex. There bond will only get stronger.

 

You're right. I am foolish. But at least she has a family. And despite all he does, her husband goes to her every night.

 

Ive been alone my whole life. Full of relationships in which I was told how wonderful I was, how smart, funny, pretty, sexy and such a good person, but at the end of the day, no one ever wants to be with me. I'm always the one who sleeps alone at the end of the day. Maybe I'm not marriage material. I don't know what it is about me that no one ever wants to stay with long term.

 

Maybe the scraps a married man throws me over the last ten years are the best I can get. He's pretty much the only person that's "stuck around" this long and told me without fail how he wishes he could spend his life with me. But maybe it's easy for him to say because he doesn't have to follow through.

 

All my exes are married these days. The last guy I dated long term dumped me because he said he couldnt handle long term relationships, and is now dating a girl 8 years younger than me. I could barely get him to go out to bars with me and my friends, but he;s been on 4 vacations with this 20-something year old child-girlfriend of his (he's almost 40) in the last 6 months they've been together. He used to tell me I'm brilliant and sexy and everything someone could want but he, too, broke up with me and found someone else.

 

Every relationship I've ever had has ended. Usually on good terms-- no one ever hates me or anything. They always say wonderful, fabulous things about me. But no one ever wants to really be with me long term.

 

Mostly I feel like I'm not good enough. I just give up a bit. This is pretty much the best I can get so I may as well enjoy what little moments I get. I think I'm the only single person in my entire group of friends. Everyone I know is either married, with kids, or at least has a boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

I work a lot. If I didn't have that I'd probably sit at home and cry all day. I have great family and great friends, but I'll probably be alone the rest of my life romantically.

 

Maybe some people are meant to die alone.

[Baby123]

My best friend was like you KG,she is absolutely model material and has a great heart and is loads of fun but she was the one in our friends who men only wanted for a little while. My mum gave her some great advice, she told her that 'you only have to get it right one time, so don't give up hope' and I think that was reassuring that one day she will get it right, and that mr perfect is out there. Now she has a great man and I expect they will get engaged very soon.

 

Kismet maybe go back to IC and see if your picking the right men- I suspect your man picker is off. And that you just are too kind and accept too much bad behaviour.

 

Don't be jealous of a woman whose man cheats on her and talks to other women when she's pregnant- one day you'll have your own man, that is all yours.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Baby123

[bathtub-row]

Kismet, one thing I have learned is to not get involved with a man too quickly. I also have a string of failed relationships and it does make a person question themselves after awhile. I doubt that there's anything wrong with you except you may have done what a lot of people do and didn't really spend enough time getting to know someone before giving them the gift of your heart. I have changed my expectations of men, I've stopped accepting things that are unacceptable. When you do that, something shifts inside and so do things around you.

[cocorico]

Kismet, one thing I have learned is to not get involved with a man too quickly. I also have a string of failed relationships and it does make a person question themselves after awhile. I doubt that there's anything wrong with you except you may have done what a lot of people do and didn't really spend enough time getting to know someone before giving them the gift of your heart. I have changed my expectations of men, I've stopped accepting things that are unacceptable. When you do that, something shifts inside and so do things around you.

 

why is a R considered "failed" if it doesn't last for the rest of your life? When you replace a pair of jeans you don't consider the old one "failed" just because it wore out or no longer fits as you'd like or hasn't kept pace with changing fashions - it served its purpose at the time, but that time has gone and now you need a new one. Or something else entirely. Why does every R have to be "the one"?

[KismetGirl]

Kismet, one thing I have learned is to not get involved with a man too quickly. I also have a string of failed relationships and it does make a person question themselves after awhile. I doubt that there's anything wrong with you except you may have done what a lot of people do and didn't really spend enough time getting to know someone before giving them the gift of your heart. I have changed my expectations of men, I've stopped accepting things that are unacceptable. When you do that, something shifts inside and so do things around you.

 

I think what bugs me is that all my R's tend to end with them saying the same song and dance of "you're wonderful, smart, sexy , gorgeous, amazing, so much fun, such a good catch" and then giving some lame excuse about how they are just not ready for a long term committment...and then lo and behold the next person they date after me, they get married.

 

I'm like the female version of "Good Luck Chuck", i swear. Makes me start to doubt myself and wonder what the hell it is about me that makes it happen. Am I just so wonderfully perfect they're scared off by my perfection??? LOL

Surely I have a job that many men find intimidating and is time consuming but come on now, surely some of them aren't complete pu**ies.

 

Makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time.

[whichwayisup]

I honestly dont think he wanted another baby right now-- he said the last two years of their marriage has been by and far the worst. A mix of fighting and marital counseling. But its his fault. he said they took "precautions" , whatever that means. It obviously didnt work. Maybe she thought another child would strengthen their relationship. I dont know what to think. Doesnt matter I suppose. He's been calling me all day apologising over and over again. I dont even know why he's apologising. As if I'm supposed to say, hey, congrats, no worries. I dont get him sometimes. Calling me telling me he cares about me and just wants to talk to me and he's so sorry -- sorry for what, impregnating his wife again? i dont know

 

But you haven't been in his life for the past 3 years, NC..So assuming or thinking you know about their life since your A ended is pointless. Obviously their marriage wasn't half as bad since they were having sex. I wish you'd not believe every word he tells you. Just because he says stuff doesn't mean it's true or fact. Don't put all the blame on her, that she was trying to trap him by getting pregnant.

 

He's apologizing because he knows he f'ed up with you and now he's gonna try to manipulate you more into staying in contact with him. I hope you tell him to shove it up his ass!!

 

What matters IMO is that he knew she was pregnant when he reached out to KG, but chose to say nothing about it until he'd met up with her and had her securely on his hook again. That is not the action of a friend, or anyone who cares about you. That is the action of someone who is at best conflict-avoidant, and likely highly manipulative.

 

Cocorico is right, this man is NOT a friend.

[Ruffian1]

why is a R considered "failed" if it doesn't last for the rest of your life? When you replace a pair of jeans you don't consider the old one "failed" just because it wore out or no longer fits as you'd like or hasn't kept pace with changing fashions - it served its purpose at the time, but that time has gone and now you need a new one. Or something else entirely. Why does every R have to be "the one"?

 

 

Wow, that is some stone cold-hearted philosophy . . .on so many levels. People are not in any way closely similar to a pair of jeans. People "use" jeans. Jeans don't have feeling, a heart / soul. Jeans don't feel pain and have children. Jeans don't get married and take vows.

 

 

Relationships "effect" the people involved in them. It effects their life. We only have one life.

 

 

People invest time, money, sacrifice, make promises and plans and it affect every aspect of each persons life and a whole lot more.

[Leda]

But you haven't been in his life for the past 3 years, NC..So assuming or thinking you know about their life since your A ended is pointless. Obviously their marriage wasn't half as bad since they were having sex. I wish you'd not believe every word he tells you. Just because he says stuff doesn't mean it's true or fact. Don't put all the blame on her, that she was trying to trap him by getting pregnant.

 

He's apologizing because he knows he f'ed up with you and now he's gonna try to manipulate you more into staying in contact with him. I hope you tell him to shove it up his ass!!

 

Cocorico is right, this man is NOT a friend.

 

I've been reading a few of your old posts, and it sounds like this guy isn't honest about his marriage. It sounds like he's immature, and had problems--probably stemming from childhood dynamics---being honest to his wife or other people close to him. He seeks comfort and validation--not just sexual, but emotional--from outside his primary romantic relationship, because he can keep other women (you, or the colleague he had a one night stand with at work) at a careful distance, controlling how and when he sees them, how and when he uses them, and how and when he opens up to them.

 

 

I bet what he told you about his marriage is true--the failed counseling, her jealousy and frustration--but also a lie. Also, they're friends who have a great and regular sex life and have been choosing to make babies together throughout your on-again/off-again thing with him. As a poster said earlier in this thread, he loves to go home to his family. Which includes his wife.

 

"But it doesnt matter. It happened just like i told everyone. He ended it. He said it was for real this time, that he loves his wife and his family and doesn't envision himself in any other "situation" than theirs. That he can't think that anything was missing in particular, but that he was just being a selfish pr**k for four years."

 

He said this years ago, according to your own thread. I think it was the truth.

[KismetGirl]

 

"But it doesnt matter. It happened just like i told everyone. He ended it. He said it was for real this time, that he loves his wife and his family and doesn't envision himself in any other "situation" than theirs. That he can't think that anything was missing in particular, but that he was just being a selfish pr**k for four years."

 

He said this years ago, according to your own thread. I think it was the truth.

 

I think he tried to convince himself it was the truth. He doesn't try to say these things anymore.

 

He still says he loves to go home to his children, but he's stopped trying to convince me or himself that he's in love with his wife.

 

He DOES care for her. He DOES love her-- she's the mother of his children and he's lived with her for 15+ years....of course he loves her. I don't doubt that. Men don't need to be IN love with someone to have sex with them, either. They don't even need to really enjoy sex fully to have it, if that's what's available. Men will easily take mediocre sex instead of no sex at all. His sex life with his wife is present and available, but disatisfying.

 

Regardless the quality of his sex at home isn't the issue. Never has been, really.

 

I think he used to try to convince himself that what he wanted was his life with his wife. These days he doesn't bother trying to believe that anymore. He's happy in some ways-- he's admitted this. His words were something along the lines of "we've had our ups and more recently big downs in our marriage. I've become jaded. I've learned a lot about myself, what I truly wanted out of a relationship, and the fact that *insert wife's name* and I were never romatnically compatible because she and I see the world and relationships differently. We have no passion. I love her but I'm not in love with her. I've resigned myself to a life with her that will likely not change-- one in which some things, like our role as parents, will be awesome, and others, like our relationship as husband and wife, will be less than ideal. But I guess that's where I am."

 

I don't think he'll ever leave her, or at least not anytime while the kids are kids, but he seems to have reached a level of complacency. He used to express extreme guilt over his infidelity when the A started very often (and in fact his guilt was a frequent reason he would break up with me in the past)...he doesn't express this anymore. He's changed in that sense in the time we've been apart. He has sex with his wife because it's available, not because it's something he craves over sex with other people. She is familiar and available, and she is his wife, so he has sex with her, because the alternative is to have no sex at all. He does need SOME kind of connection to have sex (and Im sure he has a connection with his wife, just not the kind he ideally wants romantically). He tried to have sex with one of his co-workers in my absence and said that he never did it again because he had no connection with her on a personal level. To some degree, he craves a connection and sex, not just a hole to put it in. Men do not view sex the same as women. If it's there, even if its not something they prefer, they'll take it assuming it meets their needs at least a little. His wife's sexual relationship is not his ideal but he has a connection with her personally so it's better than nothing or trying to sleep with someone he doesn't care for at all. With me he has a physical connection that he prefers and we also have an emotional connection, which I suspect is why after ten years he keeps coming back to me when it would have been easier to just have meaningless flings with the plethora of other women that have offered it to him (and trust me when I say he would have NO problem getting laid if that's all he was after. None.). I'm not using that as an excuse-- it's just a fact of life.

 

Anyway none of it matters in the end. The logistics of the matter are wife + three kids + pregnancy + 15 years of mutual friends/family + mortgage = he's not going anywhere, no matter how much he feels he is "missing" something.

[Poppy47]

Amen to that Kismet. That's really the way it is and it's very hard to change without destroying a family.

 

Some people go along all their lives not being altogether content with what they have. It's what they signed on that marriage certificate to do and they do it. "Till death do us part" no matter what.

 

Find you destiny somewhere else.

 

Cheers,

Poppy

[MuddyRock]

Truth is you don't know what he is like to her or how happy or unhappy he is. You know what he says to you on the phone and when with you. Manipulating two women.

It's not her responsibility to make him happy. Happiness comes from within ones SELF.

[LifesontheUp]

Actually happiness is not dependant on someone else or something outside of us. Life is as they say what YOU make of it.

 

This MM clearly isn't that unhappy or he would leave his wife. Yeah yeah, I hear you shouting thats not right, some stay for the kids. Then you only have to look at the divorce stats and they show there are high percentage of people not staying for the kids. You've only got to look in a class room of kids these days and see that there are many that aren't living with their birth parents - some parents are divorced, some split, some in one parent homes, some in foster care, some adopted etc etc.

[Poppy47]

Not everyone who is unhappy makes the choice to leave either. Sometimes I think it can have much to do with the financial situation.

 

The consequences of a divorce can leave both parties and the children struggling to make ends meet... especially when there are 4 children involved.

 

Poppy.

[Hope Shimmers]

I think that getting pregnant again, whether purposefully or "accidentally" (and there is really no such thing....the chances of accidental pregnancy when you are correctly using birth control is incredibly low....not impossble, but INCREDIBLY low) was stupid.

 

The fact is, you have no idea if they used birth control or not. You just know what he told you. For all you know, they could have gone to a fertility clinic to get pregnant.

 

I dont think she's in denial anymore so much as she is in placid acceptance.

 

Some women (and men I'm sure) are like this. My ex-MM's wife accepted his affair. She even said (told me this) that she would raise his child if he ever had one with another woman. (Little does she know that I had his daughter).

 

In many of your posts you talk about how he tells you he "loves her but is not in love with her" and how they are good parents together but "not romantically compatible" and he's "not happy" and "needs more". The thing I'm not sure you are grasping is that many (maybe most) people feel this way after being married a number of years. If he were to divorce his wife and marry you, soon he would be saying the same things about you. It's not that she is the wrong person for him and you are the right person; it's just the fact of long-term marriage. It loses its sexual excitement and he is seeking that elsewhere. Some men (and women) deal with that in ways within their marriage (ie, without cheating) but some choose to cheat.

 

So, while I believe he feels more or less the way he says, it does not mean he is unhappy with her or doesn't love her. In fact, if push ever comes to shove (which it has, several times, with you and her), he stays with her. Because he loves her and their family. It's not as emotionally and sexually stimulating as a new woman (you), but he knows at some level that if he were to leave and start over with you or someone else, he would be dealing with the same issues in a few years and have lost his family and kids to boot. So, he's trying to keep both.

 

I am confused by why you became angry when he told you she was pregnant. Didn't you two just get together for coffee, to catch up? If that was the case, why would his wife's being pregnant be an issue at all? (Rhetorical question - it was an issue because you were back in the affair mindset with him, as evidenced by your reaction).

 

Why do you suppose he told you his wife was pregnant? As someone else pointed out, it's not like you're going to run into her stomach in the next 2 months. My guess would be that he did it in order to be clear to you that he is not leaving and to make sure that you do not get that impression. For that matter, she might not even be pregnant at all - maybe he made it up just for that purpose. You have no way of knowing.

 

You may not think I know what I'm talking about, but I was with the same MM for many, many years too and knew him better than I knew anyone in life, ever. That's how I know now that he was capable of lying to me (just as he did to her) to manipulate both of us to get what he wanted. He even managed to justify it to himself.

 

Bottom line - what this MM is saying to you is standard lines that most if not all MM say to their OW. The reason they don't leave is because they aren't as unhappy as they make it sound - or at least, because they love their wives and family.

[Leda]

Another thought re: his unhappiness. A guy like this--who is too immature and screwed up to be honest with his partner/the mother of his children--might be "unhappy" single, unhappy married, unhappy with children, unhappy childless, unhappy having sex each night with a different worshipful supermodel. Instead of integrating his life and being open, upfront, and transparent, he's the kind of guy who cheats. Instead of working on himself, he gets emotional/sexual release outside of his real relationship, with someone (KismetGirl) he never has to be answerable to, someone he can cut out of his life at will. It's kind of like turning to an addiction (alcohol, porn, gambling, food) for comfort instead of really being truthful and present with yourself. MC can help some people, I think, but not someone like him, who sabotages it by lying to his real partner and cheating on her.

 

I agree with posters who have said staying in a terrible relationship "for the children" isn't necessarily best for the children. But I think being honest with your partner rather than lying to him/her and cheating on him/her is ALWAYS best "for the children." This guy is not thinking of his children, he's just thinking of himself.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Happiness is subjective.

 

I still don't understand why so many AP get hung up....on the WS is sooo unhappy. I am their true happiness.

 

People get joy from lots of things....their children, their dog, their favourite chair, their job, their garden. Remove any of those and they would be to some degree unhappy.

 

Remove it all...and they will be miserable.

 

For many WS whatever benefits that the AP brings to the table...when they tally up the whole of their life...the affair isn't worth losing everything else. And yes, often times.. Just losing their spouse isn't worth it.

 

There are BS who bring lots to the table as well....good parent, loyal, caring, an income, good character traits...etc. For many WS, they know that they have no legitimate complaints about their spouse...they just want something on the side to supplement...because it is easier than working on figuring out what is lacking inside of them. Or, they never learned how to self-soothe, and use other people to make themselves feel better with ego boosts.

 

I also don't understand the need that some AP have...to insist that the WS will spend their life pining away for them....forever moping through their life, never a smile or laugh to cross their lips.

 

Is that how life works? Really?

 

Do people spend their lives unfulfilled and miserable because this one relationship didn't work out?

 

Or does time move on. Needs change. Views change. Life changes.

 

Are we all not becoming someone new, slowly, day by day?

[KismetGirl]

Actually happiness is not dependant on someone else or something outside of us. Life is as they say what YOU make of it.

 

This MM clearly isn't that unhappy or he would leave his wife. Yeah yeah, I hear you shouting thats not right, some stay for the kids. Then you only have to look at the divorce stats and they show there are high percentage of people not staying for the kids. You've only got to look in a class room of kids these days and see that there are many that aren't living with their birth parents - some parents are divorced, some split, some in one parent homes, some in foster care, some adopted etc etc.

 

This is completely incorrect. Only in some fantasy world do people just get up and leave marriages just because they are not fully happy. People stay in unhappy marriages VERY often-- especially when there are children involved. This guy has three kids and one on the way. I do not believe he wanted another child right now but obviously they did not take precautions like they should have. They have been trying to work on their marriage for the sake of their children and to not throw away 15 years of being together but it's not working. She happened to get pregnant again and no more than ever it is harder to leave. He is not financially well off-- they make do right now, but there is no way he could financially support two households (eg- paying his mortgage and living somewhere else on his own).

 

For you to say that he is not unhappy because he stays married is completely a fallacy and very naive. People stay in mediocre marraiges very often.

 

He doesn't hate his wife, he just doesnt want to be married to her. If he could have a life where he maintained a parental union with her and their children but was able to be with another woman who met his personal, emotional, physical needs better he would do it in a heartbeat, but he can't. His children mean more to him than his personal happiness so he stays, but that doesn't mean he is happy.

 

I know him more than any of you on this board. I know him a very long time. I have no doubt his wife knows he is unhappy, but as I've said before, they are not compatible people. They are good parents together, they have a fondness for one another, but they are not in love. They don't have a personal understanding of one another. They see the world differently. Trust me when I say I understand perfectly how unhappy he is on a personal level, but that his relationship with his children and his ability to be a full=time father is what is most important to him. He is not willing to find personal happiness for himself in a relationship with another woman if it means losing his children from full-time status. It is not easy being a "part time father". No matter how many people are divorced in the world, your statistics are meaningless. Yes, people get used to divorced, but that doesnt make it easy to pull the trigger, especially not now that his wife is pregnant again. It's just not that simple. It's not that black and white. And before you tell me "if he was so unhappy he wouldnt get her pregnant again" then stop and think-- pregnancy and sex do not require that the two people involved be in love, or happy together. It requires only that they decided to have sex, which people often do in an attempt to try and save their relationship.

 

If he was so happy he wouldnt keep risking his life by talking to me. He wouldnt track me down halfway around the world when he didn't even know that I'm in the country. I understand why he stays. I understand why he has sex with his wife on occasion. None of these things are confusing to me.

 

But for anyone to say that people are in love and happy just because they don't get divorced or they occasionally have sex is delusional.