After three years of NC, MM has contacted me again.

[Tinroof53]

People have been asking her these questions since like 2008. Go back and read every thread she has ever started. To each their own. I think people want to genuinely help her out of her situation, but her actions show that she wants to stay in this situation.

 

Honestly, if she wants to change something about the situation she would have done it by now. Instead, good advice (hundreds of posts of it) is ignored.

 

I am fully convinced the OP just simply wants people to sympathize with her pain as she goes through years of emotional turmoil. It's her own doing. In a way, by being in denial, she is only hurting herself, and hurting herself for years on end.

 

Oh no! Torturing yourself by your own choices is much more damaging than allowing someone else to accidentally hurt you.

 

The pain and agony is the sole responsibility of the person allowing it to be caused.

 

 

We are a product or sum of our own choices.

[HBIC]

People have been asking her these questions since like 2008. Go back and read every thread she has ever started. To each their own. I think people want to genuinely help her out of her situation, but her actions show that she wants to stay in this situation.

 

Honestly, if she wants to change something about the situation she would have done it by now. Instead, good advice (hundreds of posts of it) is ignored.

 

I am fully convinced the OP just simply wants people to sympathize with her pain as she goes through years of emotional turmoil. It's her own doing. In a way, by being in denial, she is only hurting herself, and hurting herself for years on end.

 

 

I haven't read all of Kismet's threads, but she hasn't been in contact with her exMM in a long time. Let's hope her perspective on her exMM has changed in that time, and she can recognize his bulls*** for what it is. This crapola about how he never talked about divorce before, but now he is considering it, is obviously total garbage to dangle an emotional hook in front of her.

 

If he wants to talk divorce, let him show you papers with the ink dry, honey!

 

Kismet, this guy is not leaving. He is a spineless, serial cheating twerp. Enjoy the ego kibble of his flattery and leave it at that. It is critically important as you engage in conversation with him that you differentiate what is truthful from what is garbage. If there is any doubt within yourself about your ability to differentiate and/or emotionally disconnect, do not engage.

 

That's the best advice I can give.

[whichwayisup]

At the risk of being blasted by folks on here, who tend to be hard-liners, I think chatting with the guy or even (oh, Jesus!) meeting him for coffee is harmless as long as you don't let your heart fall into the trap of restarting an A, pining for him, or putting any part of your life on hold for him.

 

It does open the door more. Already those feelings have come back. It's asking for trouble, no good can come out of it. she knows herself and I can see through her posts already he's back in her mind way too much, consuming her, making her think...That's real dangerous and her exMM knows how to manipulate and push buttons. Meeting for coffee IS harmful!

[HBIC]

It does open the door more. Already those feelings have come back. It's asking for trouble, no good can come out of it. she knows herself and I can see through her posts already he's back in her mind way too much, consuming her, making her think...That's real dangerous and her exMM knows how to manipulate and push buttons. Meeting for coffee IS harmful!

 

Yeah. I went back and re-read some of Kismet's posts in this thread and she definitely seems to be falling for the garbage, hook, line, and sinker. Coffee is only safe if you've moved on and can see clearly. I don't think she has.

 

There's a certain item at the grocery store that I can't purchase. I try to convince myself each time I buy it that "this time" I won't eat all of it in one frenzied serving. And each time, I gobble it down like it's my last meal. So I don't buy it anymore. Because I KNOW I can't control myself around it, as much as I'd like to think I can. It sucks to treat yourself like there's a little kid living inside of you that has to be parented, but since wearing my skinny jeans is more important to me than gobbling the aforementioned item, I don't put myself in harm's way by buying it.

 

Know thyself.

[bathtub-row]

Kismet,

I've been following along on this thread with quite a bit of interest because I too deal with interacting with my exMM. Like you, I enjoy exMM's flattery. It's the same sort of deal where, for some odd reason, one second of hearing exMM's voice is electrifying. Do I want to go back to being a mistress? Hell no. Do I want to try to force myself to think of the world as a place where people are split into being only "good" or "bad"? Hell no to that too.

 

In my posts, I have called my exMM a lot of nasty things. Why? It helped me create emotional distance. It has been a useful tool to steer my mind to a healthier place. You are getting a lot of advice about how your exMM is this or that bad thing. The reality is that he, like you, like everyone on this planet, is a complex human being with ever-evolving thoughts, feelings, and motivations. He reached out to you. You responded. You two are now chatting. Despite your obvious trepidation around the guy, I'm sure it feels damn good.

 

At the risk of being blasted by folks on here, who tend to be hard-liners, I think chatting with the guy or even (oh, Jesus!) meeting him for coffee is harmless as long as you don't let your heart fall into the trap of restarting an A, pining for him, or putting any part of your life on hold for him. My exMM and I have seen each other in person post-A. The A didn't restart. The earth didn't shatter. Cats and dogs didn't start raining down from the sky in some sort of apocalypse. It was good to see him, we healed some wounds, and we are carrying on with our respective lives.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I agree with this. I still talk to and see xMM. As far as I'm concerned, he will always be a friend. No matter how pissed off I've gotten in the past, the truth is he has never thrown me under the bus, and very few people like him come along. I have no intentions of ending all contact with him. We don't talk very often nor do we see one another in person very much, either, but he's still a friend.

Edited November 9, 2014 by bathtub-row

[HBIC]

I agree with this. I still talk to and see xMM. As far as I'm concerned, he will always be a friend. No matter how pissed off I've gotten in the past, the truth is he has never thrown me under the bus, and very few people like him come along. I have no intentions of ending all contact with him. We don't talk very often nor do we see one another in person very much, either, but he's still a friend.

 

We are not pining for our exMMs.

 

If her heart is ensnared (and it sounds like it is), unfortunately friendship is not possible and contact will only result in more pain.

[Poppy47]

Yes. I said in a recent post that she is talking herself into seeing him again by saying she wants to understand it all.

 

MY goodness, why would she want to after the treatment she's had?

 

She said she is interested in the way he seems to be more open now. To what end exactly???

 

Just saying....

Poppy

[KismetGirl]

I cant respond individually to everyone , it'll take forever (sorry) but I agree with a lot of what's been said.

 

I mean, to be fair, if this was 4-5 years ago I wouldn't have hesitated and would have been meeting him from the first day he called me up again, but I haven't this time. I'm not sure I'm getting any credit for that , lol, but ok. That's fine.

 

I can't help but be curious about him since our abrupt ending three years ago. I can't help but wonder about a lot of things. I didn't think about him too much over the last three years, I was doing my own thing, but I did think about him now and again and wonder what he's up to and if I'd ever chat with him again. If you take aside all the sex/affair/whatever stuff, at the root of it all we were friends first for a reason....we got along very well. It was always supinely easy to just talk, about anything, and that hasn't seemed to change.

 

Yes, he's selfish. Yes, if he's unhappy he should leave. He's deluding himself into thinking his best option is to relegate to a happy family life with the occasional sneaking around-- and I know no one here will believe it anyway, but he said that there have been only two women since me, and one was a one-time thing that he regretted immensely, and the other one was more of an emotional affair (they never got physical, just spent a lot of time talking to each other....she was also married and unhappy and I guess they had things to talk about in common in that regard). I don't see this as the actions of a serial cheater who is an insufferable human being....just an unhappy one who is a bit selfish in how he feels is the path of least resistance right now. He's an attractive, charming guy, and trust me when I say if he wanted to have lots of women over the last ten years he could have. But I really believe he didn't. Call me an idiot for believing that, sure, there's no way for me to convince you of why you should believe that. But I know him, I know his face, and I know when he lies.

 

Anyway I havent met him and Im still trying to keep the strength not to. LDR guy has been distant lately which has upset me and obviously driven me more into wanting to talk to MM, however, I havent met him and I dont plan to right now. I couldnt tell you exactly what I get out of talking to him but it does provide some weird sense of happiness. I can't explain it.

 

Again...Im leaving again soon. It's fairly impossible for me to fall back into an A again.

 

And I do read my old posts and remember how sad I was back then , how hurt. Please believe I do not want to be in that position ever again.

[FusionCutter]

I cant respond individually to everyone , it'll take forever (sorry) but I agree with a lot of what's been said.

 

I mean, to be fair, if this was 4-5 years ago I wouldn't have hesitated and would have been meeting him from the first day he called me up again, but I haven't this time. I'm not sure I'm getting any credit for that , lol, but ok. That's fine.

 

I can't help but be curious about him since our abrupt ending three years ago. I can't help but wonder about a lot of things. I didn't think about him too much over the last three years, I was doing my own thing, but I did think about him now and again and wonder what he's up to and if I'd ever chat with him again. If you take aside all the sex/affair/whatever stuff, at the root of it all we were friends first for a reason....we got along very well. It was always supinely easy to just talk, about anything, and that hasn't seemed to change.

 

Yes, he's selfish. Yes, if he's unhappy he should leave. He's deluding himself into thinking his best option is to relegate to a happy family life with the occasional sneaking around-- and I know no one here will believe it anyway, but he said that there have been only two women since me, and one was a one-time thing that he regretted immensely, and the other one was more of an emotional affair (they never got physical, just spent a lot of time talking to each other....she was also married and unhappy and I guess they had things to talk about in common in that regard). I don't see this as the actions of a serial cheater who is an insufferable human being....just an unhappy one who is a bit selfish in how he feels is the path of least resistance right now. He's an attractive, charming guy, and trust me when I say if he wanted to have lots of women over the last ten years he could have. But I really believe he didn't. Call me an idiot for believing that, sure, there's no way for me to convince you of why you should believe that. But I know him, I know his face, and I know when he lies.

 

He can deceive the woman he married and his life partner, the woman that sees him every single day?

 

If you add up all the time you have ever spent with MM and compared it with what he has spent w/ his wife and family, I bet you it isn't even 1%. His wife knows him better than you for sure, yet is fooled. What makes you more intelligent than his wife?

[bathtub-row]

We are not pining for our exMMs.

 

If her heart is ensnared (and it sounds like it is), unfortunately friendship is not possible and contact will only result in more pain.

 

It actually is possible. Not easy, but possible. Even 10 yrs later, I still have strong feelings for xMM when I'm around him. It's just a matter of not giving in to those feelings. Once a person gets really, really serious about staying out of an affair situation, they won't give in. There's nothing that xMM could do now to draw me back into that. There's no amount of drama, ILYs, my life falling apart, or weak moments in general that could pull me back in. So, my feelings for him aren't really relevant. If Kismet plans to stay in touch with her xMM, she'll need to get clear on whether it's worth it to go down that path again or not. For me, I hated being the OW, I hated the whole situation and I know how it will make me feel afterward if I sleep with him. It's just not worth it to me. That's what it eventually comes down to -- restraint and clarity.

Edited November 10, 2014 by bathtub-row

[cocorico]

I cant respond individually to everyone , it'll take forever (sorry) but I agree with a lot of what's been said.

 

I mean, to be fair, if this was 4-5 years ago I wouldn't have hesitated and would have been meeting him from the first day he called me up again, but I haven't this time. I'm not sure I'm getting any credit for that , lol, but ok. That's fine.

 

I can't help but be curious about him since our abrupt ending three years ago. I can't help but wonder about a lot of things. I didn't think about him too much over the last three years, I was doing my own thing, but I did think about him now and again and wonder what he's up to and if I'd ever chat with him again. If you take aside all the sex/affair/whatever stuff, at the root of it all we were friends first for a reason....we got along very well. It was always supinely easy to just talk, about anything, and that hasn't seemed to change.

 

Yes, he's selfish. Yes, if he's unhappy he should leave. He's deluding himself into thinking his best option is to relegate to a happy family life with the occasional sneaking around-- and I know no one here will believe it anyway, but he said that there have been only two women since me, and one was a one-time thing that he regretted immensely, and the other one was more of an emotional affair (they never got physical, just spent a lot of time talking to each other....she was also married and unhappy and I guess they had things to talk about in common in that regard). I don't see this as the actions of a serial cheater who is an insufferable human being....just an unhappy one who is a bit selfish in how he feels is the path of least resistance right now. He's an attractive, charming guy, and trust me when I say if he wanted to have lots of women over the last ten years he could have. But I really believe he didn't. Call me an idiot for believing that, sure, there's no way for me to convince you of why you should believe that. But I know him, I know his face, and I know when he lies.

 

Anyway I havent met him and Im still trying to keep the strength not to. LDR guy has been distant lately which has upset me and obviously driven me more into wanting to talk to MM, however, I havent met him and I dont plan to right now. I couldnt tell you exactly what I get out of talking to him but it does provide some weird sense of happiness. I can't explain it.

 

Again...Im leaving again soon. It's fairly impossible for me to fall back into an A again.

 

And I do read my old posts and remember how sad I was back then , how hurt. Please believe I do not want to be in that position ever again.

 

Hmm... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sensing a movement over a couple of posts from "I don't intend to engage with him" to "I won't meet up with him, but talking's OK" to "well, I don't have any immediate plans to meet up with him, but you never know..." KG, if you're going to do it, at least make it worth your while and have the best sex you've ever had in your life, so that the pain that will assuredly follow is not too high a price to pay.

[whichwayisup]

Hmm... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sensing a movement over a couple of posts from "I don't intend to engage with him" to "I won't meet up with him, but talking's OK" to "well, I don't have any immediate plans to meet up with him, but you never know..." KG, if you're going to do it, at least make it worth your while and have the best sex you've ever had in your life, so that the pain that will assuredly follow is not too high a price to pay.

 

Her heart is in it, she's in love with the guy still, this recent bit of contact has made those feelings come flooding back. Having sex with him would be a HUGE mistake. This guy has enough power over her to make her change her mind about moving away, to manipulate her into staying. She's wavering here and I can't encourage her to "go for it." The damage it'll cause basically wipes out the past 3 years and she'll end up where she once was before. In pain, the OW and waiting.

[KismetGirl]

He can deceive the woman he married and his life partner, the woman that sees him every single day?

 

If you add up all the time you have ever spent with MM and compared it with what he has spent w/ his wife and family, I bet you it isn't even 1%. His wife knows him better than you for sure, yet is fooled. What makes you more intelligent than his wife?

 

His wife is not fooled. She knows everything. She has caught him in lies a million times. The only thing she is guilty of is wanting to ignore what's in front of her. I understand why she does it, of course, and no faulting her, but he is in no way some mastermind that has her thinking that all is well in their married world.

 

I assure you, she is in no way fooled. He is not the best liar in the world.

[KismetGirl]

Her heart is in it, she's in love with the guy still, this recent bit of contact has made those feelings come flooding back. Having sex with him would be a HUGE mistake. This guy has enough power over her to make her change her mind about moving away, to manipulate her into staying. She's wavering here and I can't encourage her to "go for it." The damage it'll cause basically wipes out the past 3 years and she'll end up where she once was before. In pain, the OW and waiting.

 

Im emotionally invested but I'm not totally insane-- I'm leaving in less than two months no matter what happens, trust me. It's impossible for me to stay, I have responsibilities where I came from lol. I'm not giving all that up to fall back into an affair, trust me....so that's not a worry.

 

Emotionally I suppose the worry of being ensnared is always possible. But i do have some minor iota of sanity.

[bathtub-row]

KG, if you're going to do it, at least make it worth your while and have the best sex you've ever had in your life, so that the pain that will assuredly follow is not too high a price to pay.

 

Not laughing at you, Kismet, but just laughing at this in general. Very funny! :laugh:

[KismetGirl]

Not laughing at you, Kismet, but just laughing at this in general. Very funny! :laugh:

 

:-) i thought it was a bit funny as well, no worries

 

Not for nothing but it was some of the best sex I ever had. There is something to be said for a good passionate connection.

 

The stuff after that? No thanks....as I said, I told him I'm in no way interested in falling back into patterns of "will he or won't he show up" followed by passionate love making, only to have him look at the time and realise that if he's not home in 20 minutes questions will be asked. F**k that. I do not wish for that ever again.

[whichwayisup]

His wife is not fooled. She knows everything. She has caught him in lies a million times. The only thing she is guilty of is wanting to ignore what's in front of her. I understand why she does it, of course, and no faulting her, but he is in no way some mastermind that has her thinking that all is well in their married world.

 

I assure you, she is in no way fooled. He is not the best liar in the world.

And you shouldn't be fooled either, don't believe all what he's told you so far. Or ignore what's in front of you. He doesn't deserve that benefit of doubt from you.

 

Im emotionally invested but I'm not totally insane-- I'm leaving in less than two months no matter what happens, trust me. It's impossible for me to stay, I have responsibilities where I came from lol. I'm not giving all that up to fall back into an affair, trust me....so that's not a worry.

 

Emotionally I suppose the worry of being ensnared is always possible. But i do have some minor iota of sanity.

 

Good to hear.

Though I wish you weren't emotionally invested again so quickly. it took no effort to slip backwards.

[HBIC]

The stuff after that? No thanks....as I said, I told him I'm in no way interested in falling back into patterns of "will he or won't he show up" followed by passionate love making, only to have him look at the time and realise that if he's not home in 20 minutes questions will be asked. F**k that. I do not wish for that ever again.

 

Agreed. I used to call this situation the "six o'clock, cold, dead eyes." Ugh. So with you on F**k that. Never again.

 

That said, I had a nice long, friendly chat with exMM recently. I still love him and it is obvious he loves me, but there are boundaries I won't cross with him. He doesn't have magical powers that cause my underwear to fly off against my will. My stance is: if you want all of thissssss, you gotta put a ring on it! No exceptions and no free samples!!!

 

Anyway, Kismet, I am glad you are "not totally insane."

[Miss Clavel]

Well i cant change my email address as its a work one :-) But i suppose i can just not open up any more messages from him

 

It just made me feel really emotional seeing stuff from him i guess

 

got my head in a whirlwind. you know what i mean.

 

im not trying to fall back into an affair, god no. I'll never do that again.

 

 

call his wife. ask her about the divorce. ask her if they lead separate lives.

[cocorico]

call his wife. ask her about the divorce. ask her if they lead separate lives.

 

Why do people always advocate "asking the BW" as if it was some kind of unassailable truth? I know that if I had called my fMM's BW during the A to ask such things, she'd have denied it, even though he was in he process of leaving her - simply because she chose not to admit to herself, even, so why would she admit it to a random stranger? It makes far more sense to ask someone who is less likely to lie out of self-interest, and more likely to know the truth anyway because the MM would be more likely to have confided in them (he's hardly likely to confide in the BS about planning to leave her, is he!) like a trusted friend or family member.

 

But in KG's Mm's case, I don't think he's claiming to be in the process of divorce, so why would KG need to verify that with the BW?

[KismetGirl]

Why do people always advocate "asking the BW" as if it was some kind of unassailable truth? I know that if I had called my fMM's BW during the A to ask such things, she'd have denied it, even though he was in he process of leaving her - simply because she chose not to admit to herself, even, so why would she admit it to a random stranger? It makes far more sense to ask someone who is less likely to lie out of self-interest, and more likely to know the truth anyway because the MM would be more likely to have confided in them (he's hardly likely to confide in the BS about planning to leave her, is he!) like a trusted friend or family member.

 

But in KG's Mm's case, I don't think he's claiming to be in the process of divorce, so why would KG need to verify that with the BW?

 

He's not in the process of a divorce-- he just said that he spoke to her about if maybe they wouldn't be happier divorced, finding partners better suited to each other, and that she was resistant to this idea, is very against divorce in all cases, brought up the children, etc etc.

 

I think they still have sex like once a month or so up until in the recent past in an attempt to see if something can be rekindled but it doesn't seem to be working-- theyve gone to couples counseling for over a year and it's done little more than to make it more obvious how different they are and how different their priorities out of a marriage are-- seems like more of a chore as a duty of marriage than something either of them looks forward to. But who knows, im not in their bedroom. All I can say is that he has seemed unhappy with the romantic aspect of his life for the decade I've known him, and that's all I can go on.

 

I mean it doesnt matter in the end-- if he's not leaving, he's not leaving, and Im not sitting here waiting for him. That doesn't mean I can't feel emotional about him and be tempted to talk to him until I leave I guess.

 

I should mention that to this day she still asks him about me-- weird random questions about if he and I spoke on certain media sites , just random things. She's on high alert and is suspicious of every woman in a 100 foot radius of him at all times. I imagine it isnt easy to live that way. I'd like to say I wouldnt do it, but I dont have three kids and a life built with someone, so what do I know.

Edited November 12, 2014 by KismetGirl

[Baby123]

So have you given in to meeting yet?

[Poppy47]

I hope you don't KG. It will set you back a long way. I know you are leaving the country, but don't you want to be in a good frame of mind when you do? If you meet him you won't be.

Poppy

[LifesontheUp]

He's not in the process of a divorce-- he just said that he spoke to her about if maybe they wouldn't be happier divorced, finding partners better suited to each other, and that she was resistant to this idea, is very against divorce in all cases, brought up the children, etc etc.

 

My xH was a catholic and very against divorce. I still divorced him because I wanted to.

 

He just does not want to KG. With that in mind, why would you ever put yourself back in such a vulnerable position by meeting up with him? All this is doing is putting you back to square one. Do you really want to do that?

[KismetGirl]

Much to everyone's chargin here, I am sure, I met him for a coffee. That's it-- no kisses. He reached for my hand once across the table. Gave me a hug that lasted more than usual. Mostly we just talked. Guess I wanted to see his face when I asked certain questions. I havent made another meeting to see him and havent really talked to him over the weekend at all. I got a text message from him saying he hoped my weekend was going well but I didn't respond.