Any Muslims here?

[umirano]

God doesn't command "behead people do who do not believe this nonsense".

 

How do you know what god does and does not command?

[xxoo]

the meaning of Allah:

 

Allah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[CaliGuy]

You nailed your true intentions here.

[/b]

 

LOL! He's an atheist so, I don't follow him other than his whole skit about Star Wars which is hilariously funny (Jeff Vader!). Other than that, I see him for what he is. A really weird comedian but nothing more.

 

We are ALL both 'man' and God...if we are not, then Jesus would have been saying an untruth when he said, "All that I do you can do...and even more." How could we possibly do all and more than he did, if we are not exactly like him in that, once cultivated/trained, we could learn to do exactly the same things? Now, either Jesus was a liar or he was not. We can't have it both ways, on this...if we accept word-for-word the bible as gospel truth, then that's what Jesus said. What else could he have meant if not that we are all both 'man' and God?

 

Huge difference here. Jesus was the Son of God and ALSO God. We are not God also, but sons of God. We do not have the same abilities that God has. If it were true, we would have the power of resurrection -- which we do not. You're looking at Jesus' words as literal when that is not the intention. Do you feel when he said "If you believe you can move that mountain from here to there..." that he meant literally picking the mountain up with your mind and moving a mountain? Of course not. Jesus often used analogies to help mankind understand "God is with you" in all that you do. "All that I do, you can do" is meant to love one another in the literal sense, not that you have God's power to control the universe. Only God can do that.

 

There is as much logic in any line of thinking that posits "Allah is responsible for the atrocities wreaked by man against man", as there is in saying, "God is responsible" for same.

 

Additionally, Christianity is also based on a God who is wrathful, vengeful, demanding (that is, brutal, sadistic...satanic if you will) -- even one who would ask and expect one of his 'children' to sacrifice his son on an altar, and another of his children to submit to crucifixion -- what kind of a "peaceful" religion is that?

 

Before Jesus, yes. That is because mankind simply cannot overcome sin alone. They needed a Counselor before God, someone to no longer cover our sins but to wash us clean. Prior to Jesus, God was wrathful because time after time, mankind turned away from God.

 

God tested Abraham to see if he actually would sacrifice Issac. You are forgetting God told Abraham to STOP!

 

Jesus' death on the cross was to wash man clean of sin and to have an advocate before God.

 

In both instances neither were satanic. Jesus knew what His mission for mankind was.

 

I suggest you re-read the story of Moses, the man committed atrocities that would have him declared a war criminal if he was alive today.

 

Everything you listed and more was done by Christians during the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and more wars and genocides than I care to list. What about the platform of non involvement during the holocaust or the support of slavery? Was that behaviour acceptable or representative of Christianity as a whole?

 

I realise you're not looking for a debate but for a platform from which to spout your hate, with that in mind I'll bow of this discussion.

 

No hate here. Logically speaking, of course. If you look at the OT and NT it was "man before Christ" and "man after Christ". Jesus came for a reason which I explained above.

 

Jesus brought peace to mankind. What Islam brings is beheadings, rape, destruction and utter barbarism. When you behead a child, is that a peaceful religion to you? It's not hate my friend, it's fact.

 

How do you know what god does and does not command?

 

Read His word, as I have many times, and you shall see.

 

And Christianity came that many years, or more, after the traditions of Judaism were founded. It doesn't make Christianity "lesser than" Judaism, nor Islam "lesser than" Christianity. As well, the Jesus-based movement that became Christianity started-up well after Paganism was firmly established. If the logic or "fact" is that the later-established tradition is somehow false just because of its era of being established...then Paganism would be somehow "purer" and/or "truer" than Christianity...and, for the matter, Islam, Greek Orthodox, Zoroastrian, etc., etc., etc...yes?

 

Paganism flourished during the time of Abraham. Even Jacob's father in law practiced paganism. Paganism had many false idols (gods) as well. Paganism flourished AFTER Christ because some people will go to the grave refusing God.

 

Having had my own Near Death Experience, I can assure you that from my perspective -- there is only one God. The God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David, Jesus, etc. I know many disagree with me and that is fine. However, what I saw can never be erased from my mind (and yes, I know some people say if you have an NDE you're not really dead -- ok, I get that, my heart stopped for 3 minutes).

 

I wanted to start this debate because I have yet to meet a Muslim that can explain why there are ZERO references to allah or muhammad in the Bible but muhammad refers to Jews and Christians (actually to the point of saying "Convert them or kill them").

 

This whole web site (written by former Muslims) is a great read if you want to know why Islam is a false religion and muhammad was NOT a prophet.

 

Welcome to Islam-Watch

[xxoo]

I wanted to start this debate because I have yet to meet a Muslim that can explain why there are ZERO references to allah

 

You continue to argue that there is no reference to Allah in the Bible. Have you researched the words used to for God in the original texts?

 

From the link in my last post:

 

Allah (English pronunciation: /ˈælə/ or /ˈɑːlə/; Arabic: الله‎ Allāh, IPA: [ʔalˤˈlˤɑːh] ( )) is the Arabic word for God (al ilāh, iliterally "the God").[1][2][3] The word has cognates in other Semitic languages, including Alah in Aramaic, ʾĒl in Canaanite and Elohim in Hebrew.[4][5]

 

Here's some original text from Genesis:

 

Genesis 1:1 is the first verse of the first chapter in the Book of Genesis, and the opening of the Genesis creation narrative. In Hebrew script it reads: בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָֽרֶץ (English transliteration: Bereisheet bara Elohim et hashamayim ve'et ha'aretz). I

 

Elohim = Allah = God

[CaliGuy]

You continue to argue that there is no reference to Allah in the Bible. Have you researched the words used to for God in the original texts?

 

From the link in my last post:

 

Allah (English pronunciation: /ˈælə/ or /ˈɑːlə/; Arabic: الله‎ Allāh, IPA: [ʔalˤˈlˤɑːh] ( )) is the Arabic word for God (al ilāh, iliterally "the God").[1][2][3] The word has cognates in other Semitic languages, including Alah in Aramaic, ʾĒl in Canaanite and Elohim in Hebrew.[4][5]

 

Here's some original text from Genesis:

 

Genesis 1:1 is the first verse of the first chapter in the Book of Genesis, and the opening of the Genesis creation narrative. In Hebrew script it reads: בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָֽרֶץ (English transliteration: Bereisheet bara Elohim et hashamayim ve'et ha'aretz). I

 

Elohim = Allah = God

 

You don't seem to understand and have gone to great lengths while missing my entire point.

 

The "false" god that islam prays to is allah. False religion, false god.

 

The God of this world, Elohim/Yaweh -- is what I am talking about. I do not refer to Yaweh as "allah" because it infers to what islam calls their god. No caps btw.

 

You and others are trying to point out what I already know. I am simply trying to get you to understand that I refuse to call God "allah". Ever.

[Snaggletooth]

 

Jesus' death on the cross was to wash man clean of sin and to have an advocate before God.

 

No hate here. Logically speaking, of course. If you look at the OT and NT it was "man before Christ" and "man after Christ". Jesus came for a reason which I explained above.

 

Jesus brought peace to mankind. What Islam brings is beheadings, rape, destruction and utter barbarism. When you behead a child, is that a peaceful religion to you? It's not hate my friend, it's fact.

 

 

I'm not religious and have no bias towards one or t'other but it amazes me how people cannot see the difference in the roots of Christianity and Islam. As you say, Jesus came to bring peace whereas Mohammed incorporated learnings from other religions to end inter tribal warfare, unite the Arab tribes and seize power and control. He was a tribal warrior. His life story is a bloodbath, especially after he gained power. War and barbarity was the way of Arabia back then. It was a backward society even for the time. The peace and justice he preached was for the united tribe. The war and violence he preached was for those not willing to join his tribe. It's why the Quran can seem so contradictory to those who do not recognise the climate it was conceived.

 

 

Over the centuries Islam has moderated into something much more peaceful and the majority of Muslims are peaceful, but it was initially spread by the sword. The problem is that Islamic writings contain that ancient tribal warrior code of pre Islamic Arabia and it is dictated as a religious duty. Therefore wherever Islam has gone it has carried that less than peaceful side with it. Most ignore it, some don't.

 

If you look at ISIS you are seeing what Islam looked like at the very beginning. These guys are butchers but if you abide by the law they treat you very well, maybe better than many have been treated anywhere else. You will be loved, cared for, looked after, protected and trained to be a warrior. You become one of the tribe, part of the family. They have broken down borders and united races, nationalities and colours under one belief. Woe betide you if you choose not to live your life by that law, though. Just as life was like under Mohammed.

 

People talk about the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition but without the Muslim invasions neither would have happened (the torture of the Inquisition has also been proven highly exaggerated). People back then were fighting what we are seeing now in Iraq. Yes, atrocities were committed, but there was a reason why Christian soldiers went to war. Same reason we now have a coalition bombing ISIS.

 

 

The other difference between the religions is if a Christian is being naughty then one can point at Jesus and say "would Jesus do this?". You can use him as an example for good behavior. You cant do the same with Mohammed. You can't sit down a Jihadist and tell them their actions go against Mohammed and his word. He's following the word and the example Mohammed set.

 

One of the reasons I think so many of the atrocities of Islam through the ages have been erased from modern history books, is to reconstruct Mohammed and his followers as peaceful men in the hope that modern Muslims will follow that new rewritten example. Problem is, the truth still lies within Islamic writings and many of those raised outside the moderating influence of the west treat those writings as law and duty.

 

Like yourself, I say the above with no hate and I have nothing against Muslims. I do have a problem with some of the things written into Islamic writings, though. There's a book out there that calls for my death, your death, most people's death, and enough people follow that book and consider it a religious duty for it to be a concern to world peace. I'm a tolerant fella, I'm not calling for people to be killed for something that was written, or drawn. Nor calling for people to be killed for their belief, or lack of it. A minimum of tens of thousands are, though, and that comes from within Islamic writings and the example set by the preacher, the prophet, the self proclaimed last prophet.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Snaggletooth

[xxoo]

You don't seem to understand and have gone to great lengths while missing my entire point.

 

The "false" god that islam prays to is allah. False religion, false god.

 

The God of this world, Elohim/Yaweh -- is what I am talking about. I do not refer to Yaweh as "allah" because it infers to what islam calls their god. No caps btw.

 

You and others are trying to point out what I already know. I am simply trying to get you to understand that I refuse to call God "allah". Ever.

 

So basically your are talking about your beliefs regarding the Islamic faith as a Christian, and not as an intellectual or academic.

 

Understanding that, I bow out.

[umirano]

One of the reasons why I chose to post, and continue to post on this particular forum instead of a forum in my own language or in my home country, is because of the american spirit, the openness to ideas (in general). Unfortunately this tolerance and curiosity very often ends when it comes to religion, world view in general. It seems there are very narrow and limited paths open only :/. Even guys who essentially make up the value of this forum with their posts (related to relationships) really ruin the whole fun when it comes to a truly holistic world view.

 

Caliguy, OP, you really cannot be serious about one crazy tale being the one and only truth about the whole universe, our existence and humanity as such. Don't you see how crazy the claims are? Why are you ignoring the calls for heartless violence, not only in the religion of your choice, but in pretty much all religions?

 

Jesus said, he's bringing the sword, not peace, intending to drive apart daughter and mother, mother in law and daughter in law. How do you even think a shred of this religion benefits a modern humanity the slightest?

 

This forum, and most of its participants fiercely try to weed out craziness when it comes to relationships. We try to teach people and show them the true signs that they're overlooking in their love-craziness. Yet, when it comes to a world view that is a) accurate and b) useful in people's daily lives this forum overflows with ridiculous claims of the truth of particular religions, and the arguments presented are exclusively circular, authoritarian or gnostic.

 

I had hoped for more clearness and cleverness. In pretty much all other areas humanity's advances are based on the american sense of pioneers, bravery and fight for human rights.

 

If not the americans become irreligious, who will? The europeans are largely, but they have not the cultural influence of the US by a long shot.

 

Help us out, fellow irreligious americans!

[jay1983]

How do you know what god does and does not command?

 

God speaks to me. I prayed and god came into my life. The spirt of the holy ghost........

 

Nah I'm fu*kin with you. lol

[umirano]

God speaks to me.

 

That's really how most religious people argue. They do not understand that this is an internal source of knowlege to them and only them. I could have talked to Mickey Mouse (or he to me), yet not in a million years I'd be able to prove it to any participant of this forum.

 

What we need, and in fact the only thing we can base our conversation on, are factoids that can be verified externally, meaning outside of our own mind.

 

If this simple collection of facts could be understood and agreed upon by current day theists we'd be a lot better off as a species in the very near future.

[umirano]

Jesus did not teach to "behead unbelievers" as the false prophet muhammad and his false god allah says.

 

Actually jesus did not only teach, but order so: Matthew 11:23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

 

(He ordered a whole city to "go down to hell" for not following / believing in his teachings, technically not to behead them, I'll concede that)

[jay1983]

That's really how most religious people argue. They do not understand that this is an internal source of knowlege to them and only them. I could have talked to Mickey Mouse (or he to me), yet not in a million years I'd be able to prove it to any participant of this forum.

 

What we need, and in fact the only thing we can base our conversation on, are factoids that can be verified externally, meaning outside of our own mind.

 

If this simple collection of facts could be understood and agreed upon by current day theists we'd be a lot better off as a species in the very near future.

 

Only problem I have with atheists is they attack religion just like this guy's doing. How much of the bible was adopted from paganism, what's real, what's not. I really don't worry about that stuff. Just let people do what they want, who cares, it's not that big a deal.

[Allumere]

Actually jesus did not only teach, but order so: Matthew 11:23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

 

(He ordered a whole city to "go down to hell" for not following / believing in his teachings, technically not to behead them, I'll concede that)

 

Kinda sorta not really...Ok, non-God folk, tune out for a moment.

 

I would say this verse at it's simplest is example of the only unforgivable sin. Folks in Capernum experienced Jesus but chose not to listen/act/repent...the game plan/easy button handed to them but they dismissed/knew better. Sodom folk didn't have the benefit of Jesus and he felt if they had been given opportunity to know him they would have repented, accepted God's gift(s).

 

More Bible knowledgeable folks can better explain.

 

Extremes are examples of self-asigned righteousness, it doesn't matter what belief is the catalyst. We have numerous examples in history of what happens when the extremes try to take the helm....ultimately they always fail.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Allumere

[umirano]

Only problem I have with atheists is they attack religion just like this guy's doing. How much of the bible was adopted from paganism, what's real, what's not. I really don't worry about that stuff. Just let people do what they want, who cares, it's not that big a deal.

 

Well, this kind of thinking (making an internal experience the only relevant argument in a debate) is unacceptable in any other field in our lives. Why does religion have this cop out? No court would accept it, no school I know of.

 

And it is kind of a big deal when religion forcefully divides humanity, like in pretty much any year of recorded history? Or when religion is shoved down our throats in order to reach political goals? If religions were treated like drugs (above 18 and within your own four walls) religious folks probably wouldn't have to defend their ideology all the time. If you take it out there and expect others to submit to these - really questionable - ideas, then obviously you will be met with resistance.

[umirano]

Kinda sorta not really...Ok, non-God folk, tune out for a moment.

 

I would say this verse at it's simplest is example of the only unforgivable sin. Folks in Capernum experienced Jesus but chose not to listen/act/repent...the game plan/easy button handed to them but they dismissed/knew better.

 

... and were sent to hell for that The difference to ordering to behead non-believers is rather technical IMO.

[Allumere]

IMHO the difference is the judgement is ultimately at the hand of God. not by my fellow man. Whether it is something I understand completely, agree with etc. is not relative.

[CaliGuy]

Kinda sorta not really...Ok, non-God folk, tune out for a moment.

 

I would say this verse at it's simplest is example of the only unforgivable sin. Folks in Capernum experienced Jesus but chose not to listen/act/repent...the game plan/easy button handed to them but they dismissed/knew better. Sodom folk didn't have the benefit of Jesus and he felt if they had been given opportunity to know him they would have repented, accepted God's gift(s).

 

More Bible knowledgeable folks can better explain.

 

Extremes are examples of self-asigned righteousness, it doesn't matter what belief is the catalyst. We have numerous examples in history of what happens when the extremes try to take the helm....ultimately they always fail.

 

The only sin that is truly "unforgivable" is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. That's it. Saying people are going to go to Hell, even an entire City, is quite possible if everyone is denying the Holy Spirit.

 

But -- nowhere near beheading...not even close.

[CaliGuy]

Well, this kind of thinking (making an internal experience the only relevant argument in a debate) is unacceptable in any other field in our lives. Why does religion have this cop out? No court would accept it, no school I know of.

 

And it is kind of a big deal when religion forcefully divides humanity, like in pretty much any year of recorded history? Or when religion is shoved down our throats in order to reach political goals? If religions were treated like drugs (above 18 and within your own four walls) religious folks probably wouldn't have to defend their ideology all the time. If you take it out there and expect others to submit to these - really questionable - ideas, then obviously you will be met with resistance.

 

But yet in today's society, atheist and liberals feel that just about "anything" should be and is acceptable in this country. I beg to differ. I do agree with how this country was formed and the separation of Church and State. I just think where our Money, where our Pledge says "In God we Trust" and "So help me God" should be acceptable. Tossing God out of our lives also tosses out a lot of our morals and ethics...

 

... and were sent to hell for that The difference to ordering to behead non-believers is rather technical IMO.

 

Not even close. God doesn't behead people. Men do....

 

IMHO the difference is the judgement is ultimately at the hand of God. not by my fellow man.

 

Exactly. In Islam, their believers feel they are God, Judge and Executioner. Not so in Christianity.

 

And earlier someone talked about the Crusades, etc. It is true, in the OT when the Jews were trying to take the land God gave to them, they had to force the people living their out. To God they were heretics, non-believers. And even I do not agree with his this was done, but I am the last person to tell God how to run His show.

 

But when Christ came, that all changed. God stopped being an angry God because he could not change the hearts of man kind. We needed a savior, a counselor. Someone to speak to God on our behalf.

 

I find no such atrocities in the NT. I see a change of heart, with Jesus' examples, of how man should truly live.

 

Neither align exactly with Judaism or Islam.

[CaliGuy]

I'm not religious and have no bias towards one or t'other but it amazes me how people cannot see the difference in the roots of Christianity and Islam.......The war and violence he preached was for those not willing to join his tribe.

 

That is where radical Islam thrives. "Think like we think or we KILL you..."

 

Over the centuries Islam has moderated into something much more peaceful and the majority of Muslims are peaceful, but it was initially spread by the sword. The problem is that Islamic writings contain that ancient tribal warrior code of pre Islamic Arabia and it is dictated as a religious duty. Therefore wherever Islam has gone it has carried that less than peaceful side with it. Most ignore it, some don't.

 

1.2 billion Muslims, 350 million of them RADICAL Islamist. Again, there will never be peace on Earth until Islam itself (and it's Qu'ran) are gone.

 

If you look at ISIS you are seeing what Islam looked like at the very beginning. These guys are butchers but if you abide by the law they treat you very well, maybe better than many have been treated anywhere else. You will be loved, cared for, looked after, protected and trained to be a warrior. You become one of the tribe, part of the family. They have broken down borders and united races, nationalities and colours under one belief. Woe betide you if you choose not to live your life by that law, though. Just as life was like under Mohammed.

 

I disagree. If you do not DO what ISIS tells you to do, you will be treated as an infidel. Their rules are extremely strict. It's like living in prison. Not the way God intended us to live. Trust me, there are thousands if not millions who claim to be Islamist but in their heart they want OUT. They cannot for fear of being killed. Islam is "Faith by Intimidation", not a relationship with God.

 

People talk about the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition but without the Muslim invasions neither would have happened (the torture of the Inquisition has also been proven highly exaggerated). People back then were fighting what we are seeing now in Iraq. Yes, atrocities were committed, but there was a reason why Christian soldiers went to war. Same reason we now have a coalition bombing ISIS.

 

The difference being JESUS. He walked this earth to show people that it was not the way God wanted us to live. He showed us to "Turn the other cheek" and to "Love one another, be it Jew or Non-Jew". He did not lead people by intimidation or threats or beheadings. It was a new way of forgiveness. Something Islam does not believe in.

 

The other difference between the religions is if a Christian is being naughty then one can point at Jesus and say "would Jesus do this?". You can use him as an example for good behavior. You cant do the same with Mohammed. You can't sit down a Jihadist and tell them their actions go against Mohammed and his word. He's following the word and the example Mohammed set.

 

See above. That is exactly what I was inferring to. God knows man is fallible. To a believer in the false religion of Islam, they'll just kill you. Mohammad wasn't a prophet. He was simply a thug, murderer and pedophile.

 

One of the reasons I think so many of the atrocities of Islam through the ages have been erased from modern history books, is to reconstruct Mohammed and his followers as peaceful men in the hope that modern Muslims will follow that new rewritten example. Problem is, the truth still lies within Islamic writings and many of those raised outside the moderating influence of the west treat those writings as law and duty.

 

You cannot take a thug, murderer and false prophet and raise him to the level of Jesus. Islam can't get their religion straight and those who follow modern Islam are afraid of the extremist. Again, NO PEACE WITH ISLAM.

 

Like yourself, I say the above with no hate and I have nothing against Muslims. I do have a problem with some of the things written into Islamic writings, though. There's a book out there that calls for my death, your death, most people's death, and enough people follow that book and consider it a religious duty for it to be a concern to world peace. I'm a tolerant fella, I'm not calling for people to be killed for something that was written, or drawn. Nor calling for people to be killed for their belief, or lack of it. A minimum of tens of thousands are, though, and that comes from within Islamic writings and the example set by the preacher, the prophet, the self proclaimed last prophet.

 

The last true Prophet was Jesus. The Son of God. Again, I speak about Islam to people who follow this religion that they are being brainwashed by this false religion. That there will never be peace. That this religion was created long after the Son of God came to earth to save us from ourselves.

 

Those who continue to believe in a religion like Islam, which cannot even get it's own faith straight, well, you can expect more brutality, more bombings and suicides and forget peace on this planet.

 

So basically your are talking about your beliefs regarding the Islamic faith as a Christian, and not as an intellectual or academic.

 

Understanding that, I bow out.

 

Having read the OT, NT and the Qu'ran and studied the historical evidence of all three, I come from a very educated, intellectual and academic background to speak on all three religions.

 

It does happen to be that I follow Christ so yes, I may appear biased. Not going to excuse myself for that.

 

Caliguy, OP, you really cannot be serious about one crazy tale being the one and only truth about the whole universe, our existence and humanity as such. Don't you see how crazy the claims are? Why are you ignoring the calls for heartless violence, not only in the religion of your choice, but in pretty much all religions?

 

I have never said I agree with violence in religion. In fact, I said above that Christianity is the only religion that does not promote violence and brutality (Judaism and Islam both do, for different reasons). The fact is I believe that Jesus is who He said He was. And to me, that is END OF STORY.

 

Jesus said, he's bringing the sword, not peace, intending to drive apart daughter and mother, mother in law and daughter in law. How do you even think a shred of this religion benefits a modern humanity the slightest?

 

Drive, NOT kill. Do you understand? Jesus spoke in parables -- ALL THE TIME. This was to make it easier for people to understand what He was trying to teach them. Jesus NEVER spoke of killing people, ever. He NEVER forced anyone to believe in him. In fact he said "If you come to a home and give the word and they will not listen to you, knock the dust off your shoes as you leave..." He does't say kill a non-believer, but basically wipe your hands and leave.

 

This forum, and most of its participants fiercely try to weed out craziness when it comes to relationships. We try to teach people and show them the true signs that they're overlooking in their love-craziness. Yet, when it comes to a world view that is a) accurate and b) useful in people's daily lives this forum overflows with ridiculous claims of the truth of particular religions, and the arguments presented are exclusively circular, authoritarian or gnostic.

 

I had hoped for more clearness and cleverness. In pretty much all other areas humanity's advances are based on the american sense of pioneers, bravery and fight for human rights.

 

If not the americans become irreligious, who will? The europeans are largely, but they have not the cultural influence of the US by a long shot.

 

Help us out, fellow irreligious americans!

 

If you are looking for America to be a leader in something, unfortunately that is not going to happen. In fact this country is REGRESSING as we allow more and more liberals to lower the bar nearly down to the floor on what is ethical and moral.

 

Much the same way that America allows Islam in this country only to have muslims smash the WTC, blow up people at the Boston Marathon, etc. Again, Islam is NOT a religion of Peace. The Jews have been trying to live in peace in Israel but the Muslims will NOT allow it.

 

This thread can go on forever, but I will simply say it again that until Islam is wiped off this planet, we'll be looking at NO PEACE and Holy Wars until God decides to intervene. And if He does, it won't be pretty.

[CaliGuy]

So let's say we want peace, and we have to "wipe off Islam" - how do you propose we go about wiping off 1 billion + people? (Just can't help but recall Ahmadinejad talking about zionism - "needs to be wiped off the map")

 

Is God going to come around with the magic wand and just zippity zap; all Muslims are gone?

So we have three things to look at:

 

1. Judaism (before Christ, before we had a mediator before us and God).

2. Christ (Ultimate forgiveness and peace)

3. Islam (Barbarism/Stone ages, 600 years after Christ)

 

Is God going to come down with a magic wand and destroy Islam? I don't think He will. I think Islam will kill itself. The more radical Islam presents itself to the world, the more God-fearing people will either destroy it or it will destroy itself. You can only deal with barbarians for so long before you decide "It's either me or them".

 

If we do not do something about radical Islam, it will destroy us and society in general. Are you a bleeding heart liberal who believes that beheading people and forcing them to convert to a false religion is the way this world needs to go?

 

Or are you a God-fearing person who understands the difference between right and wrong and can see Satan for who he is? Islam.

 

I ask you that simply because anyone with a lick of common sense can see where Islam is going to take this world. Back to the stone ages.

 

Ask women who are under Shariah law how they feel about being downgraded to a 3rd class citizen and see how they feel.

 

If you feel I have added anything positive to relationships, then you must understand my stance on Islam and their entire faith. It's similar to saying "How long are you going to stay with a boyfriend that beats you silly before you say 'Meh, I think I am in a really bad relationship!'". (Duh!)

 

Do you get my drift? Radical Islam brings nothing positive to this earth or society in general other than "You better convert to our false religion or we'll just kill you".

 

If your family was facing this demand, what would you do? Sit there idly by and let it happen? Or would you man up, face this tyranny (satan) and fight back?

 

You can sit by and watch the world implode. I myself -- will not....

 

That, or you think killing innocent civilians, beheading women and children and hiding behind women and children while you lob bombs into Israel is a "noble and just cause".

 

Give me a fikken break.

 

That or you're saying my opinion on the state of this world is unfounded. In which case, I'd ask you to study Islam and the Qu'ran further....

Edited October 21, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Dontfindme]

 

If we do not do something about radical Islam, it will destroy us and society in general. Are you a bleeding heart liberal who believes that beheading people and forcing them to convert to a false religion is the way this world needs to go?

 

Radical Islam is not representative of all of Islam- if you mean to say that beheadings should stop, then yes it should, obviously. Frankly, it should have never started, but it did. And now that’s it’s happening, it needs to stop. But to claim that all beheadings are performed by Muslims, and that a select group of extremists represent the rest, it’s unacceptable. I don’t understand how you can make such broad generalizations.

 

It’s hard to envision a million people, and here you are talking about more than a billion. How does one even wrap their mind around that?

 

 

 

If you feel I have added anything positive to relationships, then you must understand my stance on Islam and their entire faith. It's similar to saying "How long are you going to stay with a boyfriend that beats you silly before you say 'Meh, I think I am in a really bad relationship!'". (Duh!)

 

This analogy doesn't really apply to religion. Unless you happen to have a billion boyfriends; and of the billion, some of them beat you up - so you decide to leave them, as you definitely should. But then, you also have boyfriends who respect, appreciate, and care for you. Now if someone decided to leave these boyfriends who are doing everything right, we would empathize with the boyfriends, and tell the dumper that THEY need to work out their own issues, because they're carrying around a lot of baggage, and dumping it on those who do NOT deserve it.

 

 

I hope that made sense.

 

Honestly, I suck at debating others. I’m not enlightened on topics of religion at all. But I live in NYC, and I'm surrounded by different people from various different backgrounds, which has further opened my mind to others. When you interact with so many people on a daily basis, you begin to realize that the core beliefs are essentially the same. Everyone's just trying to make ends meet to get by. Having a black and white attitude towards religion is so unnecessary and unfair. Plus there's no answer. It's like asking why I like chocolate ice cream, and wondering why he likes vanilla.

 

I do appreciate your lengthy response, and your attempts to explain your ideologies, most of which I completely disagree with.

 

I think that you should thoroughly explore that which you are dismissing before writing everyone off. Why not talk to some actual Muslims and see? Why not go to a Mosque, or even an a predominantly Muslim neighborhood (you should have several options, you can pick from Arabic Muslims, to Indonesian Muslims, or Indian Muslims, or Chinese Muslims, etc. lots of options - cause you know...a billion Muslims) and see what they’re all about? How about a hookah bar, if you’re into that stuff?

 

 

I hope you’ll find more truth out in the real world, than what you have seemingly found on Fox news.

[umirano]

Ok, so the "peaceful" christians defend sending people - no, make that cities - to "hell" for not believing.

Beheading is worse than that, in their quirky minds it's measurably less moral. All right.

 

CaliGuy, to claim that atheists don't value anything (are you saying we have no ethics?) is actually offensive. I think you're an idiot for saying that. If your money doesn't reference god, society will fall apart? Do you know how many euro bills reference god? How many societies in europe are falling apart? Are you saying the US society is doing fine? I mean you have the god reference, no?

 

Christianity and pretty much all other religions condone violence for different reasons. The three book religions are mere shades of each other when it comes to justifying violence against people who's social, sexual or philosophical choices you don't agree with. That is actually in direct conflict with human rights. I don't know how you people live with yourselves, christian, muslim or (religious) jew.

 

This thread is disgusting because of the hate and violence promoted. Splinter, neighbor, plank and own eye come to mind.

Edited October 9, 2014 by umirano
Explaining why this thread disgusts me

[CaliGuy]

I hope you’ll find more truth out in the real world, than what you have seemingly found on Fox news.

 

Faux News doesn't teach me the Qu'ran or study theology and religion. Maybe you should read the Bible then read the Qu'ran and tell me where you find the holes in Islam. There are many, btw.

 

CaliGuy, to claim that atheists don't value anything (are you saying we have no ethics?) is actually offensive.

 

Don't care if it's offensive. The question is, where are your morals derived from? What YOU personally feel is right and ethical? That you have some innate knowledge of good and bad that is far greater than God's word on what is both good and acceptable? I have yet to meet an atheist who can properly discern between good and bad when their own moral compass is out of whack.

 

I think you're an idiot for saying that.

 

Thanks for the insult.

 

If your money doesn't reference god, society will fall apart? Do you know how many euro bills reference god? How many societies in europe are falling apart? Are you saying the US society is doing fine? I mean you have the god reference, no?

 

This country is going to crap not because of money or even the love of money (which is the root of all evil), but the simple fact that we've pushed God aside and decided we, humanity, knows what it best for us. Not our Creator.

 

That, my friend, is the beginning of the end of time.

 

Christianity and pretty much all other religions condone violence for different reasons. The three book religions are mere shades of each other when it comes to justifying violence against people who's social, sexual or philosophical choices you don't agree with. That is actually in direct conflict with human rights. I don't know how you people live with yourselves, christian, muslim or (religious) jew.

 

No my friend, Christianity does not. In fact, Jesus says to "turn the other cheek" and to "love your enemy". It's the Old Testament, when God was trying to set a place for Jews, that He had asked them to take over territory. When Jesus came, he was the atonement for our sins. Through Christ we should have had peace. But Islam was born 600 years after Christ and now we'll never have peace. If there is violence in Christian beliefs, it's not from Christ. It's man's spin on God's word.

 

If you want violence, read the Qu'ran. That is a book on "Do as we say or we kill you".... it's the most barbaric religion on the planet.

 

This thread is disgusting because of the hate and violence promoted. Splinter, neighbor, plank and own eye come to mind.

 

Read more of the New Testament. You've apparently skipped over a lot of God's word.

 

Cheers.

[umirano]

The question is, where are your morals derived from?

I don't know. But I have them. And I've seen a lot of very religious people who have a serious lack of integrity and honesty. Claiming a belief makes you moral is laughable. Claiming disbelief makes you immoral is laughable.

 

What YOU personally feel is right and ethical? That you have some innate knowledge of good and bad that is far greater than God's word on what is both good and acceptable?

Yes, I'm more moral than your god a) for the simple reason he doesn't exist. For the same reason I'm also more moral than Mickey Mouse. B) I'm also more moral than the fictional character of god as portrayed in the bible. Most anyone on this planet is in fact. And that's awesome. If we all had god's moral principles it would be mayhem. I think the middle age gave us all a taste of what that'd be like.

 

I have yet to meet an atheist who can properly discern between good and bad when their own moral compass is out of whack.

Huh? If someone's "moral compass is out of whack" they can't discern between good and bad, that's exactly what your phrase means. And it doesn't matter whether they believe in a particular god or not.

 

Thanks for the insult.

I'll gladly take it back and ask you for forgiveness if you take back that insulting statement where you imply that for simply not believing in a deity we do not value anything. I value a lot of things. Relationships, people, experiences. And my social circles attest to that. Are you saying that a all those people who I'm close with are lying to me when they express how they like it when I take care of them?

 

This country is going to crap not because of money or even the love of money (which is the root of all evil), but the simple fact that we've pushed God aside and decided we, humanity, knows what it best for us. Not our Creator.

 

Your country, and more so the society and culture provide a very high living standard for millions of people. A higher living standard than any of the characters in any religious book ever had. A higher standard of living that any theocracy ever was able to provide for.

 

That, my friend, is the beginning of the end of time.

This "end time" celebration by christians is really sad. You have absolutely no reason to believe in the concept of "end time". People live longer, have more free time to pursue their interests, have more intellectual and physical freedoms than ever, have a healthier happier life than ever. We're doing fine.

 

No my friend, Christianity does not. In fact, Jesus says to "turn the other cheek" and to "love your enemy". It's the Old Testament, when God was trying to set a place for Jews, that He had asked them to take over territory. When Jesus came, he was the atonement for our sins. Through Christ we should have had peace. But Islam was born 600 years after Christ and now we'll never have peace. If there is violence in Christian beliefs, it's not from Christ. It's man's spin on God's word.

Priests sprinkled cannons and machine guns with holy water. Jesus said he'd come to drive apart mother and daughter. Your religion brings about hate and distrust. You have no evidence for the truth of any of it. Your religion is a tool designed to control the masses and a failed attempt at science.

 

If you want violence, read the Qu'ran. That is a book on "Do as we say or we kill you".... it's the most barbaric religion on the planet.

The quran is barbaric and so is islam. But so is every religion. The very concept of making outrageous claims about our universe (such as the proposed existence of an all powerful being) with exactly zero verifiable proof is a violent act. Mind tricking the masses into subjugation under a highly questionable morale. The idea is to implant into people's mind that there's a higher authority and that they're wrong to think for themselves. That's how you get the masses to march for the most abhorrent of ideas. Religion is useful. That's why it exists. Not because it is true in any sense.

 

I'll say it again. Islam is an embarrassment to humanity. Yes. But so is christianity and any other religion. The killing of millions of american natives, esp. in today's latin america was a product of the sense of "being on a christian mission", taking the land for god's glory. Christianity is a hateful, cruel ideology, designed to get people to march against whoever displeases leaders. You will reply it's not true christianity then, I know. The same thing is said by moderate muslims about islam. Jihad is the inner struggle etc. It's BS. We all know it. Moderate religion is the intellectual home for the more practical extremists. They take the moderates and hide behind them. Moderate believers conveniently overlook the parts of their holy book that they find too cruel or absurd to live by. How many christians avoid shrimps because the bible urges them to?

 

greetings

[gaius]

Ok, so the "peaceful" christians defend sending people - no, make that cities - to "hell" for not believing.

Beheading is worse than that, in their quirky minds it's measurably less moral. All right.

 

CaliGuy, to claim that atheists don't value anything (are you saying we have no ethics?) is actually offensive. I think you're an idiot for saying that. If your money doesn't reference god, society will fall apart? Do you know how many euro bills reference god? How many societies in europe are falling apart? Are you saying the US society is doing fine? I mean you have the god reference, no?

 

Christianity and pretty much all other religions condone violence for different reasons. The three book religions are mere shades of each other when it comes to justifying violence against people who's social, sexual or philosophical choices you don't agree with. That is actually in direct conflict with human rights. I don't know how you people live with yourselves, christian, muslim or (religious) jew.

 

This thread is disgusting because of the hate and violence promoted. Splinter, neighbor, plank and own eye come to mind.

It's kind of hard to argue that religion overall doesn't end up being superior. Whenever a power vacuum is created in the middle east 9 out of 10 times it's the hardcore Islamists that come out on top. A deep, spiritual belief can compel a man to override the urges that make for a weak society. Corruption, lawlessness, etc. It's an incredibly powerful tool. You can say what you want about ISIS but from all accounts they're an island of functional behavior in a sea of dysfunction. And I don't see the golden travel calf that atheists seem to have adopted offering the same benefits. Most of them I know are so corrupt they let their political beliefs and correctness influence their judgement in almost every matter.

 

And in a way Cali is right about there being no peace until Islam goes away. It was born out of a desire by the Arabs to adopt christianity but set themselves apart at the same time. And it serves the same purpose today. As long as people willingly set themselves apart there will always be conflict.