Make me see thru the fog...does she just want a free dinner?

[FitChick]

She doesn't like you but since you keep asking her out, she has nothing better to do so opts for a free dinner.

 

Unless the woman has a gun to your head, no one forces a man to pay for anything, so stop whining.

 

P.S. I don't own a TV.

[Hungup123]

Just to clear things up about the tv, I made the date when I was in the process of moving out of my last place. So I think that was unknown to her since we were meeting places and I was picking her up. So she was probably under the impression that she was coming to mine, whereas I was speaking in terms of going to hers. I think that eliminates potential weirdness from her end.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

What kind of "expensive imported beers" are we talking about? And where do you live? If you're in the United States, there's no excuse for not buying her a good craft brew.

 

(Seriously though, it sounds like you're reading way too much into things.)

[HappyLove]

Why have to spend time with someone who he does not even find attractive at all? Acute attraction is actually an important part of things to many individuals. What does that have to do with this specific situation? He is thinking that the woman now may be using him. Came here looking for actual advice and you try to tell him what he deserves. Call him out then for being completely stupid. Shame on you for being so condescending.

 

He is planning on dating the other one. He just likes this one because she's hotter which IS stupid. They don't even have chemistry kissing and he's wondering if he's being used. The other girls kiss was passionate and she was considerate...that's the keeper!

[thekid36]

He is planning on dating the other one. He just likes this one because she's hotter which IS stupid. They don't even have chemistry kissing and he's wondering if he's being used. The other girls kiss was passionate and she was considerate...that's the keeper!

 

 

No, the keeper would be a woman who a man is actually attracted to. You are assuming and generalizing saying that he only likes the new woman because she is hotter. Chemistry with kissing can be changed. It has only been a couple of them to this point. Cannot always have fireworks right away. Looks are something which stay the same. Just because a woman is passionate and considerate does not by itself make her a keeper. Perhaps, neither one of these women is.

[BluEyeL]

I personally have a quite clear opinion that the OP is not into this "hot" woman, but just wants to have sex with this her, and is upset that she was backpedaling on a "private" date and wants to go in public where no sex is going to happen and he is likely to pay for dinner on top of that.

 

Usually, I'm right.

[thekid36]

I personally have a quite clear opinion that the OP is not into this "hot" woman, but just wants to have sex with this her, and is upset that she was backpedaling on a "private" date and wants to go in public where no sex is going to happen and he is likely to pay for dinner on top of that.

 

Usually, I'm right.

 

There is nothing at all in his post which suggests he only wants sex with this woman. He seems to be open in relation to seeing what develops. Also, he may try to be protective of his own self by not rushing into something so quickly. His main concern seem to be that he wants to make sure she likes him and not simply the money or opportunity. Came here for some sort of advice. Yet again, some have turned this around on him so to make him the one with a problem. It is great that you have such a high opinion of yourself. Seem to be many others on here who happen to agree with you. Still, does not mean that the majority on an internet site is necessarily right.

[azureorb]

Just to clear things up about the tv, I made the date when I was in the process of moving out of my last place. So I think that was unknown to her since we were meeting places and I was picking her up. So she was probably under the impression that she was coming to mine, whereas I was speaking in terms of going to hers. I think that eliminates potential weirdness from her end.

 

That doesn't clear things up about the TV. She has no TV? Now, if she's dirt poor -- then I understand. But with that said, you shouldn't have splurged so much from the out-set thinking you'd have an in-house date for your 3rd while you're getting set to move out, right?

 

Bad play calling on your part. She doesn't seem like a gold-digger, if she's too poor to have a TV and has a small kitchen. But that also sounds like a bit of an excuse. Too small a kitchen to Cook? Who said anything about a cooking show episode?

 

I would say this:

Go out to some place kinda quaint and non-expensive. Like a Fizzolis or something. The sort of half-fast/half-restaurant place. If she's a poor college student to the high degree, then there should be no problem with that, and it's not going to bust your wallet.

 

With that though, Also have plans to go back to her place and watch a movie from online from your laptop, and get some beers to go from a convenience store. If she has no internet on top of no TV and too-small-a-kitchen-to-cook-something -- then she's lying about something. She just doesn't want you coming over there...

 

.... and if that's the case, I'd call her out in a friendly way with a smile, "You know, if you don't want me going over there, I understand, you can just say so. Horrible roommates? ;)"

 

But always expect that if you're living with the parent(s) and she's living in what seems to be a shack outside a parking lot -- you HAVE to expect that you'll be going Out somewhere. Just choose inexpensive places & situations... and Cap It Off at her place with a 6 pack. If she doesn't like that, she's not that into you.

[Supernatural]

This thread is funny. When the guy worries about money... Everything goes to complete HELL. You're more focused on money than enjoying yourself and making sure she feels good.

 

Yea I'd like to hope its not me doing the awkward kissing, but with others its much more..uhh..dynamic & natural. With her it seems as though we are just pressing our heads together with our lips as the first point of contact.

This should be enough reason to just move on. Kissing always shows so much. I would probably pursue the other girl even if she wasn't as attractive. The words you used to described seemed like you find her more engaging. You're just more influenced by a hotter woman. That eventually gets old.

 

As others have said, most of the women that I've gone on multiple dates with and actually had something going on with, have been willing to chip in or offer to cook dinner, or otherwise keep it on an even ratio. Its really not a huge deal about the money ("expensive imported beers" being $7.50 a pop ), but more as an indication of where their interest level stands.

 

I admit that I would feel somewhat out of place actually telling them its their turn to pay, so I usually just wait for them to offer as more of my own test. I don't think this girl is "old fashioned" as she is one of the younger people I've dated recently.

It's more your place to be passive aggressive.

 

When she ordered the expensive drink the 2nd time, you should have told the waitress that your girl didn't like it, and to re-make it. Not let her sit there hating her drink. Your job is to make sure she enjoys the date. Take charge.

 

I'm 27 and I've always payed for my women. Just how I was raised. While I understand that "new" social norms are evolving, and I definitely understand them, I haven't felt the need to exercise them. That, and I just love feeling like a provider. Like a man. A man who gets things. It feels right.

 

With that said, I am not a fool. I make sure the women I date put forth effort in their own way.

 

The women I dated often would cook for me, clean for me (although I always do this myself and my apartment is quite clean, women still do this), and hell, my current GF is even offering to wash my clothes for me when we move together.

 

I pay for the meals, the trips, the excursions, events, concerts, etc. I like to go out on dates and treat people, but all of them would treat me nicely in their own way. In their own means. And that's perfect for me. People who care about you will find a to reciprocate and show appreciation for your efforts.

 

So far, this girl has not shown you that. I am skeptical of her. If your girl invited me over but then said we should go out to eat instead, I would be wary. Why can't she just cook you the meal? I think that would have been a perfect way to show you she cares. DOes she care? That's my question.

 

(And who the hell doesn't have a TV? This is a bit absurd. I am shaking my head just because of that).

 

In the end, if you do go, there is a good chance you'll get to play dirty. And if that's what you want, cool. Go for it. But from what you've told us so far, I wouldn't consider her a serious dating prospect.

 

That other girl on the other hand... .

This.

 

 

-----

 

I don't think this hot chick is in it for free dinner... I think you're just wrapped up in not wanting to be used and sweating some quite small stuff. Let go of who's spending money on the first three dates.. It should usually be the guy. How emasculating to let the woman pay; even if she makes the same amount as you...

 

It sounds like you're trying to present yourself as someone with a champagne budget. When really you can only buy local beers. Then you resent her for taking you up on that expensive taste she thought she could indulge in.

And, I'm guessing drinks and all that was your idea. You can't resent a chick for taking you up on YOUR invitation and expecting you to pay. Don't want to pay and still see if there is chemistry? Go for a walk. A coffee. etc.

 

Rules for anyone dating

Don't whine about money if you're going on dates/out for the night. It's the biggest turn-off for anyone. male or female.

Dating and a outgoing social life, obviously costs money. OBVIOUSLY.

 

I want to save as much money as I can right now, and improve my wardrobe with a nice new watch, new boots, newer clothes. Why the on earth would I go on a date right now with anyone? And why would I eat at restaurants?

 

 

My rule. Don't ever expect someone is going to scratch your back in life. You have to worry about that itch yourself.

 

If I have a girl.. I assume I will have to pay. For everything.

If I want to change my body... I have to put in ALL the work.

If I want a pay increase at my job... I have to ask for it and work my ass off.

If I want anything... It comes always down to me.

 

Because in the end... If I want anything in life... It matters what I do. Not anyone else. And if they pitch in.. Great thanks. But I don't expect or need anyone to do anything for me. Unless it's business and on a contract.

 

You want an ideal result in your dating life. But you're waiting for someone else to change that for you.

 

Sure, we live in an age where women have jobs and can support themselves... But they still want to feel like women.

 

We now live in a day in age where there are few MEN left. It's just a bunch of metro men in scarves with manicured eyebrows who want equality when the check comes.

A man is a provider and looks out for his wolf pack and woman. And doesn't expect anything in return. Because doing something and expecting a return to come from that action is just sad.

[Supernatural]

I should add...

 

If the woman doesn't say thank you or express gratitude for me spending my money on her... Then there is a problem.

 

Bad manners is a terrible quality.

[sid3]

A little background:

 

Went out on a first date to grab a few drinks, had a good time, a lot of touching, night ended with an awkward kiss. Paid for everything, expensive imported beers.

 

Second date was not bad, had a good time again, but paid for drinks again, one of which was some weird mixed drink that she took one sip of and said she didn't like and didn't drink any more of it. Kind of annoying. Night ended with a weird kiss/make out.

 

So now we are on to tonight which was supposed to be dinner at her place and watching football. I ask her what I should bring over, and she then tells me she doesn't have a tv and her kitchen is too small to be cooking anything...

 

I'd invite her over to mine, but I have about a month intermission that I'm staying with pops while I wait on a nice apartment to be ready, so that's pretty much out.

 

Her suggestion would be that we should just go out and get dinner, to which no doubt I would be paying. So my question to everyone is, what I should text back to somewhat test the waters and/or and see how much she really wants to see me without being too brash. She is definitely attractive, and her aloofness is keeping me interested, but I'd like to see through the fog and make sure I'm not wasting my time. I'm trying to prevent myself from getting too emotionally involved as I'd be fine turning this into something strictly casual.

 

I recently went out with another girl who paid for a majority of the drinks and out end of the night kiss definitely had a lot more passion behind it. A lot more enjoyable, but alas, she is not as attractive or really my type.

 

While I see your point to a certain degree I also question if you are looking to get the most bang for your buck.

[BluEyeL]

There is nothing at all in his post which suggests he only wants sex with this woman. He seems to be open in relation to seeing what develops. Also, he may try to be protective of his own self by not rushing into something so quickly. His main concern seem to be that he wants to make sure she likes him and not simply the money or opportunity. Came here for some sort of advice. Yet again, some have turned this around on him so to make him the one with a problem. It is great that you have such a high opinion of yourself. Seem to be many others on here who happen to agree with you. Still, does not mean that the majority on an internet site is necessarily right.

We can agree to disagree. My reasons for thinking he's interested more in sex than in a relationship are:

 

1. He said he "wouldn't mind this turning into something casual"

2. He suggested to meet in private (not her) at the third date (why if not to get dirty) and when she asked for a public date he got upset and accused her of wanting free dinners when he never even took her to dinner.

3. A man interested in a relationship with a woman and treating her like a gentleman NEVER worries about paying for dinner ONCE.

 

 

IMO He got butthurt because he thought he's gonna have sex at the 3rd date and now it appears he's not going to, and in addition to the EXPENSIVE beer, he'd need to pay for ...gasp..dinner! And no sex in exchange? WTF?? Really? Maybe she wants free dinners and she's not going to eff me! That's how it sounds to me and it ain't pretty. Another "blah" thing for me is the way he criticized her kissing/making out. Classy!

 

I have a very high opinion of myself, yes. Sometimes I'm wrong, but most of the times I'm right.

[WhatIsLove2014]

Sure, we live in an age where women have jobs and can support themselves... But they still want to feel like women.

 

We now live in a day in age where there are few MEN left. It's just a bunch of metro men in scarves with manicured eyebrows who want equality when the check comes.

A man is a provider and looks out for his wolf pack and woman. And doesn't expect anything in return. Because doing something and expecting a return to come from that action is just sad.

 

This!!! Exactly this!!!

[HappyLove]

No, the keeper would be a woman who a man is actually attracted to. You are assuming and generalizing saying that he only likes the new woman because she is hotter. Chemistry with kissing can be changed. It has only been a couple of them to this point. Cannot always have fireworks right away. Looks are something which stay the same. Just because a woman is passionate and considerate does not by itself make her a keeper. Perhaps, neither one of these women is.

 

 

WRONG! This is EXACTLY why the other girl is the keeper. Looks absolutely DO NOT stay the same but a good heart, being considerate, and a passionate person is something that does stay the same if you treat her right.

 

 

"Chemistry with kissing can be changed." NOPE!

[azureorb]

1. He said he "wouldn't mind this turning into something casual"

That's not a red flag for just wanting sex. Something causal doesn't mean that, as, you can just be like "They're not a great match, as I can't afford to take her out -- so something casual would feel more comfortable."

 

2. He suggested to meet in private (not her) at the third date (why if not to get dirty) and when she asked for a public date he got upset and accused her of wanting free dinners when he never even took her to dinner.

He didn't accuse her of it to her. He inquired about it elsewhere. Because after all, it does have shades of BS that she doesn't have a TV and has too small a kitchen to cook something in (really?). Combine that with her being awkward about kissing -- yeah, he's scratching his head -- but yes, would be jumping to conclusions to be definitive on it.

 

He's living at his parents (temporarily) and doesn't have a ton of money. People in college definitely hang out at each other's places more quick than always "going out" because of that. It's way cheaper.

 

3. A man interested in a relationship with a woman and treating her like a gentleman NEVER worries about paying for dinner ONCE.

Actually a good player will pay for a lady without question. In essence, paying for just sex to charm her. A poor kid who already spent a bit too much money from the get go, "calling the wrong plays" so to speak, is going to complain.

 

This thread is funny. When the guy worries about money... Everything goes to complete HELL. You're more focused on money than enjoying yourself and making sure she feels good.

 

Yes, and when the GIRL complains about the guy not taking her out anywhere special -- or even merely has more interest in guys who bring them out places more nice & cool (thus more costly) -- that is where things go to Hell, too.

 

A girl's not a pet, tho. She should make him feel comfortable/good just as much.

 

You're just more influenced by a hotter woman. That eventually gets old.

I dunno if this girl is hotter, though. Just more awkward in physical interaction, where the other one meshes very well. If one is to assume the other one is hotter, that's just as quick as to assume she's just wanting free dinners. Both would be jumping the gun...

 

When she ordered the expensive drink the 2nd time, you should have told the waitress that your girl didn't like it, and to re-make it. Not let her sit there hating her drink. Your job is to make sure she enjoys the date. Take charge.

I agree, he should have done that. But by the same token, she's not a child or pet. As a Guy, he should have had his foot stepping forward in situations like that, yes.

 

Let go of who's spending money on the first three dates.. It should usually be the guy. How emasculating to let the woman pay; even if she makes the same amount as you...

That's quite sad though. If a gal offers to pay, let her pay (some). It's not the 50s. But yes, if you want to get in her panties, don't ask, just do.

 

Better advice would be to say that as a guy, check your budget. Don't stress it and bank on Not going out on a 3rd or 4th date, especially when moving in with your 'rents for awhile. There are cheaper dates, and if she's a poor gal not BSing about not having a TV or a kitchen -- then she shouldn't have issue with low-key/inexpensive places... but yeah, be ready to pay. Solution? Cheap places where you get to sit & talk, etc. And if you're in a college environment, there'll be places to take advantage of.

 

It sounds like you're trying to present yourself as someone with a champagne budget. When really you can only buy local beers.

Actually, local beers (micro-brews) are pretty expensive. More expensive than cheap champagne or Bud Light. Edited September 16, 2014 by azureorb

[Diezel]

You should pay for everything because of being the male. Not because of it being expected.

 

The 1950's called, they want you back in that time period.

[BluEyeL]

A player will pay, but would also show other signs of being a player. Also not only the player will not make such a fuss about paying, but also a good guy who is a gentleman. Also, a gentleman doesn't suggest a nonpublic date at date 3 and makes a fuss about dinner out when that doesn't happen. If he was just poor, he should have suggested a walk in the parc or a picnic, not invite himself at hers like he did. She didn't invite him, he invited himself and then OMG she's not gonna have sex, and I paid for beer. Give me a break.

[Supernatural]

Actually, local beers (micro-brews) are pretty expensive. More expensive than cheap champagne or Bud Light.

You know what I meant. Haha.. Jesus

[BeholdtheMan]

night ended with an awkward kiss.

 

Night ended with a weird kiss/make out

 

Two awkward kisses/make-outs. These are important indicators you're ignoring. If it's awkward twice in row, either you two lack "chemistry" or she's not that into you (thus making the kiss awkward)

 

So now we are on to tonight which was supposed to be dinner at her place and watching football. I ask her what I should bring over, and she then tells me she doesn't have a tv and her kitchen is too small to be cooking anything...

 

Dinner at her place and watching football...now she has no TV and her kitchen is too small?

 

If it looks like BS, smells like BS...do you really have to taste it? She's not interested in you. Next her before she nexts you

 

2 dates. Nothing you can possibly read into yet.

 

Foolish...there's plenty you can read if you're perceptive enough. OP don't be oblivious

[Versacehottie]

This thread is funny. When the guy worries about money... Everything goes to complete HELL. You're more focused on money than enjoying yourself and making sure she feels good.

 

 

Sure, we live in an age where women have jobs and can support themselves... But they still want to feel like women.

 

 

So on the money, both of these quotes. When anyone gets winge-y about money, it's a huge turn off. Stop seeing it as a direct investment but more as an indirect one to having fun. Not "I spent xyz on her and am getting this". Even if not a word is said about it, you can feel it in the room if someone feels that way. It just comes off as stingy. And I don't know if that is OP's real vibe, I do think he may be tryn to gauge her interest but going about it wrongly. Give freely, and see what a person does in return. Voila.

 

Frankly, her switching up the tv date is a better gauge of where things stand than her not offering to pay yet. I agree with both the person who said she may have not wanted to be in a private place with you yet. Or who knows her home situation. Though I also know a few people without a TV by choice not lack of money. I also agree with the person who said take her to do something where little to no money is involved and see how she is. Though if I were in your shoes, the uptight way/ungrateful way she was about her drink and bad kissing are reasons I would be over her already.

 

I guess you could try the 3rd date and another kissing session but then I'd move on. I don't necessarily think she's trying to use you. I'd hardly call 2 imported beers "using" territory. She just sounds kind of boring and perhaps entitled--I'm speaking about effort not money.

 

I think all of us who believe in a guy paying at the beginning like it because it makes us feel feminine and guy guys typically feel good doing nice things like paying and making stuff happen and taking care of us. It's impressive. A grateful girl will let him know and show him that she appreciates it--not act like she doesn't.

[doeblin]

So is this going to be another one of those threads about who should pay for what with some guys beating their chest pretending they live in the world of Mad Men?

 

Just so you know Mad Men is about the fragility of this macho facade... among other things.

 

And I love the sleight of hand when someone equates "You have to make the effort to get things in life" with "A man provides for his women".

 

 

Anyway, here's the other thread:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/492937-called-him-out-not-paying-dinner-first-date

[thekid36]

This thread is funny. When the guy worries about money... Everything goes to complete HELL. You're more focused on money than enjoying yourself and making sure she feels good.

 

 

This should be enough reason to just move on. Kissing always shows so much. I would probably pursue the other girl even if she wasn't as attractive. The words you used to described seemed like you find her more engaging. You're just more influenced by a hotter woman. That eventually gets old.

 

 

It's more your place to be passive aggressive.

 

When she ordered the expensive drink the 2nd time, you should have told the waitress that your girl didn't like it, and to re-make it. Not let her sit there hating her drink. Your job is to make sure she enjoys the date. Take charge.

 

 

This.

 

 

-----

 

I don't think this hot chick is in it for free dinner... I think you're just wrapped up in not wanting to be used and sweating some quite small stuff. Let go of who's spending money on the first three dates.. It should usually be the guy. How emasculating to let the woman pay; even if she makes the same amount as you...

 

It sounds like you're trying to present yourself as someone with a champagne budget. When really you can only buy local beers. Then you resent her for taking you up on that expensive taste she thought she could indulge in.

And, I'm guessing drinks and all that was your idea. You can't resent a chick for taking you up on YOUR invitation and expecting you to pay. Don't want to pay and still see if there is chemistry? Go for a walk. A coffee. etc.

 

Rules for anyone dating

Don't whine about money if you're going on dates/out for the night. It's the biggest turn-off for anyone. male or female.

Dating and a outgoing social life, obviously costs money. OBVIOUSLY.

 

I want to save as much money as I can right now, and improve my wardrobe with a nice new watch, new boots, newer clothes. Why the on earth would I go on a date right now with anyone? And why would I eat at restaurants?

 

 

My rule. Don't ever expect someone is going to scratch your back in life. You have to worry about that itch yourself.

 

If I have a girl.. I assume I will have to pay. For everything.

If I want to change my body... I have to put in ALL the work.

If I want a pay increase at my job... I have to ask for it and work my ass off.

If I want anything... It comes always down to me.

 

Because in the end... If I want anything in life... It matters what I do. Not anyone else. And if they pitch in.. Great thanks. But I don't expect or need anyone to do anything for me. Unless it's business and on a contract.

 

You want an ideal result in your dating life. But you're waiting for someone else to change that for you.

 

Sure, we live in an age where women have jobs and can support themselves... But they still want to feel like women.

 

We now live in a day in age where there are few MEN left. It's just a bunch of metro men in scarves with manicured eyebrows who want equality when the check comes.

A man is a provider and looks out for his wolf pack and woman. And doesn't expect anything in return. Because doing something and expecting a return to come from that action is just sad.

 

 

I think he wants to make sure he is not being completely used. Which is not necessarily a negative thing. Yes, the man should offer to pay for everything. Sure, there should be no specific expectation which comes along with that. However, you still should want to make sure a date enjoys you and not just your money or an opportunity. It is called looking out for your own self. Sad that this is considered such a turn-off to so many.

 

 

It amazes me that some continue to suggest he go for a woman he's not even really attracted to. Whether the new woman is right or not. Does not mean the other one is necessarily the best bet either. Kissing is not the only option when it comes to initial success. You really can develop more of a kiss as time passes. No one should have to sell himself/herself short.

[thekid36]

We can agree to disagree. My reasons for thinking he's interested more in sex than in a relationship are:

 

1. He said he "wouldn't mind this turning into something casual"

2. He suggested to meet in private (not her) at the third date (why if not to get dirty) and when she asked for a public date he got upset and accused her of wanting free dinners when he never even took her to dinner.

3. A man interested in a relationship with a woman and treating her like a gentleman NEVER worries about paying for dinner ONCE.

 

 

IMO He got butthurt because he thought he's gonna have sex at the 3rd date and now it appears he's not going to, and in addition to the EXPENSIVE beer, he'd need to pay for ...gasp..dinner! And no sex in exchange? WTF?? Really? Maybe she wants free dinners and she's not going to eff me! That's how it sounds to me and it ain't pretty. Another "blah" thing for me is the way he criticized her kissing/making out. Classy!

 

I have a very high opinion of myself, yes. Sometimes I'm wrong, but most of the times I'm right.

 

 

Saying that he would really not mind something casual is his way of being open to what may develop. It does not mean that is his main motive. Wanting to meet in private does not necessarily mean he was expecting sex. Means that he wants to make sure she actually enjoys his company. Without there needing to be something expensive bought. Nothing wrong with not having an amazing kiss. There is the chance the next one may be better. Some are reading into things too much. Trying to find fault with each original poster at every turn. It is again great that you have such a high opinion of yourself. That is totally classy as well.

[thekid36]

WRONG! This is EXACTLY why the other girl is the keeper. Looks absolutely DO NOT stay the same but a good heart, being considerate, and a passionate person is something that does stay the same if you treat her right.

 

 

"Chemistry with kissing can be changed." NOPE!

 

If you are not physically attracted to a woman, that will not just change in time. A first kiss not being the best should not mean that the possible relationship should be doomed. Why not shoot for the stars and try to find a considerate and passionate person one is also attracted to as well?

[thekid36]

The 1950's called, they want you back in that time period.

 

I honestly have always thought that another time period would have suited me much better. Ways of this world now tend to confuse me. Not saying that a woman should have to stay in the kitchen and at home, though. Just that it should be the pleasure of a man to take care of his woman. Not necessarily only in a financial way.