Called him out for not paying for dinner on first date

September 8, 2014

Okay folks so I posted a thread a bit ago about a guy I met up with at the Starbucks who I met online who didn't open my door or pay for my 3 dollar coffee! Now this gentlemen decided to ask me out again and I agreed just to see how he would treat me during an actual date. I made a pact with myself that if he wasn't chivalrous enough and didn't treat me as though I felt I needed to be treated I was not going to see him again.

Now the date actually went really well in the beginning, we walked around downtown and he showed me his local downtown. Now I drove 30 minutes out of my way to go see him at his town for our date. We ended up eating at this restaurant and had good, light conversation and had a few things in common. When the waitress dropped the check I asked him if he would like me to help with the bill (just to be nice, not expecting he would say yes) and what do you know...he says "oh sure" GRR

To say I was turned off is an understatement. Now I am in no way a gold digger and was fully prepared to help pay for dinner, but it's the mere fact that this guy is trying to court me and take me out and he is not trying whatsoever to impress me when it came to this. So fast forward a few hours later I was at home and he texted me saying he had a great time with me and wanted to take me out again. I decided I was going to call him out on our date. This is what I said to him:

Hey! I had a great time with you as well! I have to be honest with you though, it took me by surprise that you actually let me help pay for dinner. I'm all for helping out and being courteous but it was really disappointing that you didn't feel as though you needed to be chivalrous enough to take care of it on our first date. I really enjoy talking to you and had a great time, but it's something I need you to be aware of.

Much to my surprise he actually sent back a really long message apologizing and saying he really is a man of respect and chivalrousness. He said he would definitely be paying for the next dinner and basically said from the bottom of his heart he is truly sorry. He said he didn't know if it was considered a date in terms of terminology. Which seems bogus cause we met on a dating sight?!

The question is should I see this guy again? He wants to take me out on Saturday but if it's starting out like this I have a bad feeling about it.

September 8, 2014

You have a bad feeling...

Stick with the gut reaction and don't move forward.

September 8, 2014

naa dont see this guy again.

With his long drawn out apology, he proved he was a wuss.

- He should have stuck to his guns

September 8, 2014

Hey! I had a great time with you as well! I have to be honest with you though, it took me by surprise that you actually let me help pay for dinner. I'm all for helping out and being courteous but it was really disappointing that you didn't feel as though you needed to be chivalrous enough to take care of it on our first date. I really enjoy talking to you and had a great time, but it's something I need you to be aware of.

If you sent me that message I would not go out with you again.

When the waitress dropped the check I asked him if he would like me to help with the bill (just to be nice, not expecting he would say yes) and what do you know...he says "oh sure" GRR

That's really lame. You asked to chip in, and he saw it as "cool, she wants to go dutch, I'm game". You didn't let it naturally play out. For all you know he would have paid.

This really bugs me. Because it just goes to show you that some women expect to be paid for. That the reach is fake, that them asking to help is fake.

It's not about the connection; it's about how special you think you are. This is over money. It's so petty.

September 8, 2014

If you sent me that message I would not go out with you again.

That's really lame. You asked to chip in, and he saw it as "cool, she wants to go dutch, I'm game". You didn't let it naturally play out. For all you know he would have paid.

This really bugs me. Because it just goes to show you that some women expect to be paid for. That the reach is fake, that them asking to help is fake.
It's not about the connection; it's about how special you think you are. This is over money. It's so petty.

When a girl goes out on a first date with a guy we are not expecting to pay for ourselves. I think I speak for most women on this issue. This is not saying that we are gold diggers or just looking for a free meal, but it's the fact that when a guy asks US out on a date, we are not going to be the ones paying! If the roles were reversed and I was to ask him out then you can bet I would expect myself to pay for us. But in the normal dating scene it's the guys that ask the girls, therefore it's only common courtesy. IMO

September 8, 2014

I must say I disagree. Everyone doesn't see things the same, after all you did offer. I like the fact that his response was respectful and apologetic. I say continue to see him and see where it goes, see if he truly is the guy he says he is. You did well by speaking up for yourself and showing you have self value.

Good luck to you.

September 8, 2014

I think any man who would allow you to pitch in on the first date, isn't exactly what you are looking for. Be smart enough to cut ties kindly and move on. I do disagree with calling him out on it. You have the information you need to move on. I don't know how old you are or if it really matters but a man who's not interested in treating you or impressing you probably isn't what you are looking for. I would hope you'd have the grace to move on without a scene.

September 8, 2014

I must say I disagree. Everyone doesn't see things the same, after all you did offer. I like the fact that his response was respectful and apologetic. I say continue to see him and see where it goes, see if he truly is the guy he says he is. You did well by speaking up for yourself and showing you have self value.

Good luck to you.

Thank you for your response. I agree everyone doesn't see things the same, but this just really bothers me. Being chivalrous is something that I find so attractive and so it's just disappointing with him. I would love more input on this because I don't think i'm being too extreme by my expectations of the first date!

September 8, 2014

When a girl goes out on a first date with a guy we are not expecting to pay for ourselves. I think I speak for most women on this issue. This is not saying that we are gold diggers or just looking for a free meal, but it's the fact that when a guy asks US out on a date, we are not going to be the ones paying! If the roles were reversed and I was to ask him out then you can bet I would expect myself to pay for us. But in the normal dating scene it's the guys that ask the girls, therefore it's only common courtesy. IMO

Don't get me wrong. I always pay for the first couple of dates. Then I think after the 3rd or 4th it should transition to taking turns. If I like her. I think dates 1-2 should always be cheap dates.

Even if you get asked out... You're still expecting he is going to pay which is silly. Always come prepared you will pay and see how the date goes. If I wasn't interested in the woman and there would be no second date; why would I pay? To make you feel good about the end of the date?

I hate how women can see 3 different guys in 1 week and get all dates paid for, then choose. Dating is so much simpler for a woman. Then 1 of 3 doesn't pay and it is like "OHMYGODYOUKIDDING!!?"

It's a date. Should be worrying about bigger things.

Do we connect?

Do we see the same future?

Value the same things?

Have same morals?

Now it's all about... "Should the man pay?"

Keep reading AskWomen.com

I swear it's a bunch of women who have successful meaningful relationships writing those articles. Not a bunch of 30-some singles...

September 8, 2014

I think any man who would allow you to pitch in on the first date, isn't exactly what you are looking for. Be smart enough to cut ties kindly and move on. I do disagree with calling him out on it. You have the information you need to move on. I don't know how old you are or if it really matters but a man who's not interested in treating you or impressing you probably isn't what you are looking for. I would hope you'd have the grace to move on without a scene.

Hi thank you for your response! I definitely don't want to cause any drama in this and I think your absolutely right! I didn't want my message to come across as mean and I tried not to phrase it as a mean comment, more so as "this is how I expect to be treated" comment. I will definitely take in your advice. I'm 23 as well

September 8, 2014

I find this procedure really fake (women pretending to want to help with the bill, men insisting that, no, they can surely take care of it - like it's something really hard to do like solve a puzzle or something, women feeling flattered by all this fakeness, men expecting to get into the woman's pants just cause they paid the bill). I pay for my half all the time, I never had a man pay for me, I'm not a call girl nor a homeless, if I have no money I just stay at home, I don't need a man paying my meals, I'm capable of doing it myself and demand respect from men for doing so. I'm giving you my points of view so you see that not all women think the same.

September 8, 2014

Go with your gut, and don't play games.

September 8, 2014

I think any man who would allow you to pitch in on the first date, isn't exactly what you are looking for. Be smart enough to cut ties kindly and move on. I do disagree with calling him out on it. You have the information you need to move on. I don't know how old you are or if it really matters but a man who's not interested in treating you or impressing you probably isn't what you are looking for. I would hope you'd have the grace to move on without a scene.

I find this procedure really fake (women pretending to want to help with the bill, men insisting that, no, they can surely take care of it - like it's something really hard to do like solve a puzzle or something, women feeling flattered by all this fakeness, men expecting to get into the woman's pants just cause they paid the bill). I pay for my half all the time, I never had a man pay for me, I'm not a call girl nor a homeless, if I have no money I just stay at home, I don't need a man paying my meals, I'm capable of doing it myself and demand respect from men for doing so. I'm giving you my points of view so you see that not all women think the same.

I appreciate your point of view on this topic! I understand that everyone expects different things when dating and no one way is right. It really comes down to whether or not it works for you I guess!

September 8, 2014

I agree with supernatural somewhat,

If the fact that he didn't pay for the dates was the only issue and you connected otherwise in different aspects see where it goes. Relationships aren't black and white. He may have a financial problem right now but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve too date because of that. I'd hate if you missed out on a great guy because of something,imo, so small.

He's young he may be inexperienced.

September 8, 2014

Being chivalrous is one thing. Paying for your date is another thing entirely.

The fact that you expect him to pay for you and are insulted that he didn't says a lot more about you than it does about him. You are not a child nor an escort. Him paying to feed your or keep you refreshed is neither an obligation on his part nor a right on yours.

When you take the stand that the man is obligated to pay for you, you are essentially saying you think going on a date with you, or even just being in your mere presence is a privilege for which he must pay to enjoy. If you were an 18th century courtesan maybe you'd be right, but you're a modern women in 2014. There's no need for him to pay for you. The purpose of a date is hopefully to ascertain whether the other party is a suitable candidate to date in the long term, right? So, if that's the case, a date should be a mutually enjoyable, mutually beneficial experience and... in my opinion at least - a mutually shared burden if it comes to that.

Why should he have to pay for you if the end game is that you two will be dating one another? A thing that would benefit you both. It's like you want to pay for your time...

The real issue I'd have here is the not opening doors thing. I'm fine splitting the bill but jesus, common decency dictates you still open the doors for a lady. I don't care what century we're in .

September 8, 2014

There is absolutely nothing in the code of chivalry that says men need to buy women dinner. Chivalry is just a code of knighthood, not a manual on how to date women.

What disturbs me the most about this situation is the fact that you were playing games offering to pay, even though you had no intentions of doing so.

You set this guy up for failure. If you don't want to help pay, then don't offer. It's insincere and dishonest.

In my years of dating I have always offered to help pay on the first date. I don't want to be that girl that just sits there when the check comes and is just expecting him to pay for me. So of course i'm going to offer to help. It's just common courtesy. But when i'm going out on a date with a guy, especially the first date, I would be lying if I didn't have certain expectations of how it will go. If he doesn't open my door or be a gentleman then it obviously affects the way I see him. It just goes back to how I was raised and my father setting the bar pretty high. I've been in a a couple long term relationships and after a while it's more of an even keel thing, but in the beginning when a guy is courting me, I expect to be treated of high value

September 8, 2014

Being chivalrous is one thing. Paying for your date is another thing entirely.

The fact that you expect him to pay for you and are insulted that he didn't says a lot more about you than it does about him. You are not a child nor an escort. Him paying to feed your or keep you refreshed is neither an obligation on his part nor a right on yours.

When you take the stand that the man is obligated to pay for you, you are essentially saying you think going on a date with you, or even just being in your mere presence is a privilege for which he must pay to enjoy. If you were an 18th century courtesan maybe you'd be right, but you're a modern women in 2014. There's no need for him to pay for you. The purpose of a date is hopefully to ascertain whether the other party is a suitable candidate to date in the long term, right? So, if that's the case, a date should be a mutually enjoyable, mutually beneficial experience and... in my opinion at least - a mutually shared burden if it comes to that.

Why should he have to pay for you if the end game is that you two will be dating one another? A thing that would benefit you both. It's like you want to pay for your time...

The real issue I'd have here is the not opening doors thing. I'm fine splitting the bill but jesus, common decency dictates you still open the doors for a lady. I don't care what century we're in .

I agree with you on some aspects of this, and i'm not trying to have him pay for my time. I guess my only problem here is when did courting a woman become so lazy? Is it us women who just have no expectations anymore? And in no way am I trying to bash the opposite sex at all, just want to put that out there. I love the opposite sex and very much respect men, but I just feel as though dating these days is way more complicated then what it should be. *sigh*

Am I really expecting too much?

September 8, 2014

I think you might just have to accept that you two have fundamentally different perspectives on paying/money/dating. The thing is perhaps it is really the $3 coffee that is bothersome? I mean----

I 100% agree that it is off-putting. There is someone out there for him who holds his same view that it's ok but you probably aren't it. It's a guarantee that with differing views you would probably continue to have issues while dating. It's a generosity/courting thing. My belief is same as yours but it doesn't mean your guy is totally wrong--just that you are likely wrong for each other. That said, when I've seen guys do things such as this the stingy attitude usually extends into many areas and as you said knocks down how you view him.

I do think that it probably would have been better to not have muddied the waters by offering to pay for dinner when you really didn't mean it 100%. Who knows he could have been willing to pay and you would know his position on this or if he balked then you would have strong information on his position. Many guys do not believe in paying for internet 1st coffee date. Stupid, because it makes them look cheap but their point is that they are going on many with most girls they will never even see again. Again, silly because it's $3 or $5 but still there are many who take this position.

Also if he was so apologetic that he is willing to pay why didn't he just do that in the moment? That's what i find about a lot of cheap people, they will "save" money where they can get away with it. Really not a nice trait that extends to other areas of life.

So here's what I suggest: since he sent that sweet apology message and if you don't want any doubts, and are not so turned off that you can't spare another couple of hours, then it doesn't really hurt to go again to "know". If you feel like deep down he's cheap or stingy, then by all means don't go. Not a compatible situation for you. Good luck!

September 8, 2014

When a girl goes out on a first date with a guy we are not expecting to pay for ourselves. I think I speak for most women on this issue. This is not saying that we are gold diggers or just looking for a free meal, but it's the fact that when a guy asks US out on a date, we are not going to be the ones paying! If the roles were reversed and I was to ask him out then you can bet I would expect myself to pay for us. But in the normal dating scene it's the guys that ask the girls, therefore it's only common courtesy. IMO

No, you don't speak for most women. Most definitely not me, that's for sure.

I think you behaved in a very rude and entitled manner. If I was that guy you were seeing and you sent me the message you did, I would not want to see you ever again. You keep saying how you're not a gold digger and that you're not in this for a free dinner but I think you are.

My first date with my bf was me paying for our coffees, and then at my suggestion, splitting the bill for lunch (I couldn't pay for both of us- I'm a broke student). My bf was the one who had asked me out. I wanted to show him that I'm not on a date with him because I'm expecting to get free food from him. The point is, it's not a man's "job" to pay for you. He can if he wants to, but he doesn't have to, and that doesn't make him a bad person.

A guy who just met you, why would he want to spend a bunch of money on you anyway? Many girls get free dinner then disappear. Spending money on a person who is practically a stranger is stupid.

Focus on what is more important. Does he treat you well? Do you have good chemistry? Does he have a good job? Any baggage? Are there any red flags? Don't simply toss a person away because they didn't pay for your dinner, especially since you had offered. If you didn't want to pay for your share, why did you offer anyway?

September 8, 2014

It never has quite sit right with me, the passive-aggressive dance of "do you want me to help pay?"

If you do not want to help pay, do not offer. If you think there is something wrong with you having to pitch in, do not offer. Do I find it a turn off if a man will not pay for the first meal? Yes but I am also not going to pussyfoot around and pretend otherwise.

I am sure this gentleman would find that to be an equally big turn-off.

September 8, 2014

It's nice when a guy offers to pay on a first date. I understand why you find that appealing.

But I think it's unfair of you to get upset about him letting you help pay when you actually offered to do so. It's not fair to offer things that you aren't sincere about.

September 8, 2014

When a girl goes out on a first date with a guy we are not expecting to pay for ourselves. I think I speak for most women on this issue.

Huh? I'm a woman and from a culture where the man tends to pay 99% of the time... and no, this isn't true or right. You don't go out with someone 'expecting' anything.

Now, if it bothers you that he didn't pay, then you have every right to choose to not continue to date him. We're all entitled to our own preferences. But what you said to him was incredibly rude, and your post in general just makes me cringe.

September 8, 2014

There is nothing courteous about it if you aren't sincere about your offer.

What about men? Are we not to be treated of high value? You are so special that you deserve our money just because we get to spend time with you?

You know what, it's fine that you expect a free dinner. A lot of women do. I don't even mind paying for dinners and dates. The problem here is that you offered to pay, then got upset when someone actually took you up on it.

This is contradictory to everything else you say in this thread. You are absolutely trying to have him pay for your time. "I expect to be treated of high value"

Obviously men are to be treated of high value as well. I think everyone should think of themselves as high value and expect to be treated a certain way. I know my self worth and maybe my expectations are a little too high, but I won't settle for someone who doesn't meet my expectations. I'm not a serial dater and he is the only guy I have met up with through online dating. I deleted my account after about a week because it felt too weird talking to so many guys at once. I know how much I can bring to a relationship and how much love I have to give to a man that is deserving of it. If me expecting a guy to pay on a first date is too much for someone to handle then obviously it's not a right match. I really appreciate everyones input and opinions though!

September 8, 2014

By the way - a man who offers you his commitment, fidelity, and time truly is treating you of high value.

Not saying there is anything wrong with a man paying for things or buying gifts, etc. There isn't and of course a man with no ambition is a straight up vagina sealant but money can never outdo the kind of value I am talking about, so do not get the two confused and think somehow that a man who throws a lot of money at you but isn't there when you need him is somehow valuing you (not saying that is the case but boy do I see it all too often).

September 8, 2014

Wow what a chump. Not for letting you pay, but for sending you that apology message. You're not entitled to anything. You want chivalry, earn it. Why don't you step up your game and show him you're not looking for free meals. Better yet don't date him, move on to the next because he didn't treat you.

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Called him out for not paying for dinner on first date

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