Over 6 months on ...how we look now

[merrmeade]

But I don't agree they can't be fixed. It's like AA. They have to admit they're addicts and get experienced professional help for their kind of addiction.

Edited September 22, 2014 by merrmeade

[DasPope]

If you think I'm not going to point out that nobody seems to have grasped the fact that I'm not accepting of anything but a traditional monogamous marriage despite me stating it many times and furthermore If you think I'm slinging mud and calling names by objecting to my wife being compared to a prostitute and a porn star your delusional.

It is patently offensive and disrespectful in anyone's language and I will not allow such patently self diagnosed inaccuracies and innuendo to remain unchecked.

[2sunny]

You're so defensive that you don't take suggestions that are designed to help you learn more about what your wife was doing - mentally and physically.

 

 

Dig deep. You aren't willing to look beyond the surface of her attitude and what she was capable of doing.

 

Let your guard down and stop defending her - then you may be able to be a person here who accepts help.

 

 

You're really not looking at the bigger (or whole) picture.

 

You've been willing to forgive right from the start even BEFORE she started getting counseling and proof that she COULD BE trusted.

 

Something inside her is broken. You think it's fixed but I can assure you it isn't possible to fix someone like that within a short period of time. Years and years can provide behavioral cognitive change. But remember it's a process that's designed to change a person's thought processes and impulse control. That doesn't come overnight.

 

 

You're so anxious to think everything is all great that you don't realize it's a LONG journey to determine if the outcome is positive.

 

I know you wish to believe it's all good so badly that you can't see the reality of this big issue.

 

Good luck. Open your mind to people here trying to help you. You're so quick to defend that you're missing key points from skilled posters here.

[oldshirt]

I speak harshly, bluntly and from the gut because I wished people had told me the cold, harsh truths of the world as I was coming up through the ranks instead of trying to only speak of roses and sunshine and sugar-coating everything.

 

I may have sounded disrespectful to towards your wife but that is because she has behaved and acted in a manner that that is disrespectful and offensive towards you and other decent married people who act in good faith and take accountability when they screw up.

 

If in 15 years she has a completely spotless record and has been a model wife, mother and citizen, I will give her the respect and credit due.

 

Given her lifetime behavior, 6 months is nothing. Annie Sprinkle probably had some 6 dry spells. And at least Annie Sprinkle has always been upfront and honest about who and what she is. She's never tried to portray herself as anything else.

 

Respect has to be earned. It doesn't matter one bit if your wife ever earns any of our respect or not. What matters to us is that you don't continue to fall for her BS and that require her to earn yours.

[Try]

If you think I'm not going to point out that nobody seems to have grasped the fact that I'm not accepting of anything but a traditional monogamous marriage despite me stating it many times

You do not seem to grasp the fact that talk is cheap, and that action speaks louder than words. You say that you will not accept anything but a "traditional monogamous marriage", but until your wife stops cheating behind your back and acknowledges that cheating is a big deal, you are in fact sticking your head in the sand and accepting a non-monogamous marriage. Before you get mad at me for saying this truth, look yourself in the mirror and try to honestly tell yourself that it is unlikely that your wife will ever cheat on you again.; can't do it can you. Edited October 2, 2014 by Try

[DasPope]

This is a great example of people not even reading my posts before they post replies ...

 

but until your wife stops cheating behind your back

 

She has ... was their any point where I said it was still ongoing ?

 

and acknowledges that cheating is a big deal

 

She has ... did I not explicitly say she had taken that onboard ?

 

 

you are in fact sticking your head in the sand and accepting a non-monogamous marriage

 

How is it even remotely possible for anyone to draw that conclusion without resorting to complete fiction is beyond my comprehension. Have I not clearly stated the exact opposite ?

 

Before you get mad at me for saying this truth, look yourself in the mirror and try to honestly tell yourself that it is unlikely that your wife will ever cheat on you again.; can't do it can you

 

I most certainly can say that.

 

And with absolute conviction.

[2sunny]

This is a great example of people not even reading my posts before they post replies ...

 

 

 

She has ... was their any point where I said it was still ongoing ?

 

 

 

She has ... did I not explicitly say she had taken that onboard ?

 

 

 

 

How is it even remotely possible for anyone to draw that conclusion without resorting to complete fiction is beyond my comprehension. Have I not clearly stated the exact opposite ?

 

 

 

I most certainly can say that.

 

And with absolute conviction.

 

Keep posting. Let's see how she performs over a period of 5 to 10 years.

 

A short time period isn't enough to give evidence that someone has authentically changed the true nature of themselves.

[Trr]

Hi DasPope,

 

There has been an amazing amount of bile thrown at you in your threads and you have handled it with very impressive equanimity. Some of these people who are trying to stoke your rage have made thousands of posts and still appear to be no closer to healing from their traumas. Perhaps it is you who has something to teach us.

 

What is it about your psyche that keeps you immune from the awful and intense emotions betrayed husbands usually feel? Is it safe to say that you draw a sharp distinction between love and sex?

[HermioneG]

This is a great example of people not even reading my posts before they post replies ...

 

 

 

She has ... was their any point where I said it was still ongoing ?

 

 

 

She has ... did I not explicitly say she had taken that onboard ?

 

 

 

 

How is it even remotely possible for anyone to draw that conclusion without resorting to complete fiction is beyond my comprehension. Have I not clearly stated the exact opposite ?

 

 

 

I most certainly can say that.

 

And with absolute conviction.

 

I say this very gently. As someone years and years out from my spouse's infidelity? I cannot say that. I don't control other people, nor do I have the ability to predict the future. Do I think he would? No. But I do not live in his head. I think he won't because I have years of action to back up that belief, but nothing is 100% except my own actions.

 

I can say I have watched him do years of intense work to change his mindset and coping skills, and he worked hard at it, and at restoring us, and in a different situation than what you are describing.

 

The only thing I can say with absolute conviction is that if he ever strayed again, there would be no third chance. That I can answer for, because the only person I cantruly speak for is myself. Do I think it is likely that he would stray? No. But I did not think that originally.

 

I am not trying to argue with you. I just want you to see that things are more complicated and take longer to fix, if they are fixed correctly. The worst thing in the world to a betrayed spouse initially is understanding that all these things take time. There are no shortcuts. No quick fixes. It takes a wayward a long time and a path of bad decisions to get to the infidelity point. And the road back from that is long.

Edited October 13, 2014 by HermioneG

[DasPope]

Hi DasPope,

 

There has been an amazing amount of bile thrown at you in your threads and you have handled it with very impressive equanimity. Some of these people who are trying to stoke your rage have made thousands of posts and still appear to be no closer to healing from their traumas. Perhaps it is you who has something to teach us.

 

What is it about your psyche that keeps you immune from the awful and intense emotions betrayed husbands usually feel? Is it safe to say that you draw a sharp distinction between love and sex?

 

 

It's interesting isn't it ?

 

I can't say for sure but I suspect it relates to both my circumstances and the circumstances of the infidelity.

 

Many people have really long ongoing complicated situations where the BS only finds out things in trickle truth and never gets a sense of total closure and being fully informed. I think this really affects the BS's ability to let the anger they have go. It's understanable WS want to protect both themselves and their WS from pain of full disclosure but it certainly causes more in the long run.

 

Many people have Children to think of, an already dysfunctional marriage, financial issues. All these things breed resentments and anger that can cause BS to put up blockages.

 

I can't tell other people how to feel or think in their circumstances nor would I ever condescend to do so but I do feel that many people tend to throw out the baby with the bath water due to their own feelings about infidelity without exhamining what was good about their relationship.

 

I'm my situation I had none of these other issues. We already had a pre-nupital agreement, There were no financial issues and I had no impediment to a easy divorce. We had no children and we had a basically a really good relationship (still do). Not only do I love my wife but I just really like her too ... we have a loving, humorous relationship thats as passionate as it is normal. So I was was dealing with it as almost a stand alone issue.

 

I think also that because I lost my first wife to cancer that I was more prepared to see the bigger picture then many other people might.

 

I asked myself if I wanted to be with this woman and why? I asked myself what I felt was acceptable to me and why? And the answers were not really any different to most others here.

In the end I was prepared to accept her as she was. Yes she had made mistakes and those mistakes had hurt me and us but putting those aside I was still pretty happy so I resolved to work on those mistakes and get through it.

My attitudes towards sex, love, infidelity are actually the same as most other posters. If she had of been hesitant or unable to commit to a sexually monogamous traditional marriage going forward I would not have been able to reconcile.

I also think that it was the nature of her cheating (which seemed to shock many people into some kind of rage) was in fact easier to deal with then if she had of had a real traditional affair or affairs. It was destructive behavior but not as destructive as a affair would have been so I was able to move past it.

I felt intense emotions, all of the ones that BS spouses feel here but I was moving with purpose forward and I didn't think becoming hysterical would help.

I may have given the impression that this has been easy. It hasn't but we both wanted the same thing and we both were basically happy to start off with so it was perhaps easier then most people find it.

 

It's also true that my wife was prepared to give me total honesty and to really commit to making sure it didn't happen again. She has had to work much harder then me in all this. And watching her do it has only increased my love and admiration for her.

 

You know what sums it up is about 20 mins ago I got home andI walked into the house and she was sitting casually at the kitchen island reading her ipad but all dolled up because we are going out tonight and she just turned and smiled at me to welcome me home in her particularly lovely way and I just thought ... wow !

I wasn't letting that feeling go without a fight.

[Trr]

 

I think also that because I lost my first wife to cancer that I was more prepared to see the bigger picture then many other people might.

 

 

This is very interesting because it is not a common experience. Do you think you bring a different set of needs into your marriage than the typical husband does because of it? In times of psychological stress are you able to soothe yourself by recalling memories and emotions involving your first wife?

[DasPope]

This is very interesting because it is not a common experience. Do you think you bring a different set of needs into your marriage than the typical husband does because of it? In times of psychological stress are you able to soothe yourself by recalling memories and emotions involving your first wife?

 

Not really, I don't think of my first wife as a crutch for any current feelings or any "go to" place to sooth myself. Quite frankly I go fishing

We were happy, had lovely kids ... a very fiery relationship in fact in some respects. My fondest memories and love are with her always but she's gone and I'm not (yet). So I'm living in the present looking forward.

One of my wife's real issues that has come out in counseling was related to her feeling in competition with my first wife's "ghost" which while totally unrelated to her infidelity was still a very real issue for her to overcome.

As for needs I think I didn't look for but certainly found a different kind of partner (subconsciously) this time around. I was never really intending on being seriously involved with anyone every again after my first wife but my current wife (who at the start also wasn't looking for marriage) and I were so good together that it kind of just happened.

She often tells me I was exactly the complete opposite of nearly everything she looked for in a man but she knew within a couple of dates I was the right man for her. Took a fair bit of convincing for me to agree I must admit but I was a cautious animal at the beginning for some pretty cliched reasons (most of which were assumed most incorrectly by many of the posters in my original thread).

I happen to consider myself a very lucky man to have had the chance to enjoy the love of two very special women.

[drifter777]

I too have been surprised and amazed with your attitude regarding your WW and her numerous ONS. Its so much different then what we see and hear on a regular basis.

 

My understanding is not at all important to you and your future so take no offense to my "guesses" as to why you have reacted the way you have.

 

First - she's a much younger hottie and it has to be great just to have her sleeping with your every night. I totally get that. I could not trade the betrayal and pure disrespect of her cheating for this - but that's me.

 

Second - you don't at all seem like a man for whom sex within the bounds of marriage is sacred. This is a huge factor as the mental images of her boffing guys she met at bars isn't as revolting or intrude into your thoughts as often. I'm sure you experience these feelings, just not to the extreme that some BH's do.

 

Last - you have some paternal instincts toward WW and want to help her "grow up". You are willing to accept & forgive in an attempt to correct her flaws in much the same way as you would do for a daughter. I think this is completely natural and would be nearly impossible to change your instinctive feelings about this. Again, this is related to the age thing.

 

None of these reasons are "bad" or invalid in any way. They are solid, well thought out, and natural. You are taking care of yourself and that's the most important thing any of us can do in our lives. But they are not typical of a BH, but then we all know every case is different.

[beach]

One of my wife's real issues that has come out in counseling was related to her feeling in competition with my first wife's "ghost" which while totally unrelated to her infidelity was still a very real issue for her to overcome.

 

 

If your current wife had that "issue" with your previous wife who died - how does she explain that cheating helps the marriage?

 

How does she explain that many one night stands would help the marriage?

 

Her mindset isn't as innocent as you've described. She kept it a secret - people keep things a secret when they know what they are doing is wrong.

 

She's played this off as somewhat of an innocent scene - which it's not.

 

Minimizing her part in it has it's advantages. It helps you to swallow that bitter pill a bit easier.

 

And you've taken her bait.

 

She may not be doing her exciting ONS routine now - but I'd bet big money she will be back to it when enough time passes that you fail to pay CLOSE attention to her every move.

 

A ONS is super exciting! I used to be the queen of ONS - it's difficult to change the mindset of a person who gets off on that kind of excitement.

 

You can't change her. That's for HER to do. You can't know for sure what her real motive is. She may change and she may not.

 

10 or 20 years may pass without you finding any further evidence. But when it happens again are you prepared to leave in a moments notice?

[merrmeade]

There's been a lot of back and forth, yet you've been consistent, DP. I see nothing wrong with your kind of quaint, simple take on the past, present and future in your marriage. In fact, I would think your upbeat, idealistic attitude helps a lot with reconciliation and appeals to a younger mind. I also think you must have a super-duper therapist to have gotten you both here, and, while I agree with some of what the naysayers (albeit more politely this time) are still trying to tell you, it sounds to me like you all were able to get back to a good place quickly, and having more good times than bad is essential. Your original statement conveys your commitment to making it work:

For us its been together but really only because we both had a almost stubborn refusal to take the easy path and allow it to drive us apart.

 

I think what trips up some of us is the fact that she kept it all secret, hidden from you. It implies Eve-like knowledge and wilful intent to deceive. However, I can accept that it was more immaturity (which encompasses a lot). At the very least, she knew you wouldn't like it but didn't think about just how much. I wouldn't say "she knew it was wrong" because probably she didn't think about it - which is a kind of not knowing. I would suggest that your wife was younger in her level of self-awareness and thinking about relationships and commitment than even some 20-somethings. The ONSs were part of a previous lifestyle enjoyed with friends. She hid it because she'd compartmentalized, separated it from her marriage. She realizes now that this was selfish thinking and almost cost her what is most important to her. I believe you that she's been fervent and sincere in therapy. Maybe it's even the first time she's looked deeply at her beliefs about relationships — an intensive lesson in the field, so to speak. She's had to study aloud the meaning of her marriage to you and hear you talk about what it means to you. Well, I can buy this. It's growing up and something she didn't get thoroughly when she was younger. I think her age is what makes her sincerety credible.

 

But beware and stand guard for both of you. It's also her age that should give you pause.

[Friskyone4u]

Das Pope

 

Most of those who have experienced infidelity know that six months is just a drop in the bucket in working through issues like what you have endured. It is great that your wife has made you feel safe but Inthink what others are telling you is that you are being a little naive only six months out to be totally convinced this is all behind you. Hope it is but the odds say it is not that simple.

You are in a sense lucky that because your wife hooked up with random me. She met in bars that you have not had to worry about the so called "fog" bull **** that a lot of men go through with WW when they get into emotional and prolonged affairs with the same person . That can be slow torture and the inability to get out of the fog or stop contact with OM kills many marriages.

The down side of your situation is your wife did not take months or weeks of being pursued with lunches and dinners and gifts. She met me she could simply not say no to, and at her age it is highly unlikely she will not encounter men that tempt her again. What she does to work on her boundaries and becoming unavailable will determine if the cheating does not happen again.

Everyone hopes it works out for you but if you are not vigilant and if she is not seeing a therapist to help her work on her need for male attention, unfortunately the odds don't not favor no recurrence just because she behaves for a few months .

[merrmeade]

What she does to work on her boundaries and becoming unavailable will determine if the cheating does not happen again.

Everyone hopes it works out for you but if you are not vigilant and if she is not seeing a therapist to help her work on her need for male attention, unfortunately the odds don't not favor no recurrence just because she behaves for a few months .

"Becoming unavailable" - that's a topic meriting extensive conversation, detailed analysis and agreement.

[2sunny]

Has she rehashed over and over in front of the counselor what she will do when she encounters a hot make who she is tempted by a conquest?

 

What is her plan for when that happens (and it will since she lives in the real world).

 

How can she trust herself to have some sense of self control now and moving forward?

 

What she was doing is totally a power play on men. What work has she addressed to understand that her power play is hurtful to you?

 

Have you two discussed that concept and what does she say about it?

[Furious]

Yep... I'd suggest that was probably part of it but also what has come out over time is that really at the time she just didn't think it was such a big deal as it was. Her idea's and thinking wasn't geared towards considering her hook ups anything at all to do with us as a couple. To her it was just fun, nothing serious at all and nothing that hurt our marriage.

 

Gently....how is it possible that hooking up and having "fun" was "nothing serious at all" wouldn't hurt you marriage?

 

It's brave of you to accept her reasoning from that stand point but it is alarming that she was this naive and having ONS's was no biggie in her mindset. Did you marry her knowing this was how see saw marriage and extracurricular fun on the side.

 

If you can get past this and be happy together then that's all that matters. You've made a point t of how you've both grown and are doing well. Understand that for most folks this is unusual. If some are sceptical, it's more about concern for you, and that maybe you're rug-sweeping and it's too soon to be fully reconciled within six months.

 

It can seem that you're getting harsh opinions, but most of it is coming from the heart.

[DasPope]

First - she's a much younger hottie and it has to be great just to have her sleeping with your every night. I totally get that. I could not trade the betrayal and pure disrespect of her cheating for this - but that's me.

 

Well she is certainly very pleasant to have around yes but whilst I felt betrayed and disrespected I have managed those feelings in order to move forward. It isn't as easy as it sounds to do so but I'm coping.

 

 

Second - you don't at all seem like a man for whom sex within the bounds of marriage is sacred. This is a huge factor as the mental images of her boffing guys she met at bars isn't as revolting or intrude into your thoughts as often. I'm sure you experience these feelings, just not to the extreme that some BH's do.

 

Well I'd suggest that I'm in no way supportive of sex outside the bounds of marriage. And the mental images and feelings you describe are indeed with me. Less these days then before but still there and still quite raw on occasion.

 

Last - you have some paternal instincts toward WW and want to help her "grow up". You are willing to accept & forgive in an attempt to correct her flaws in much the same way as you would do for a daughter. I think this is completely natural and would be nearly impossible to change your instinctive feelings about this. Again, this is related to the age thing.

 

Maybe there is something to that however I'd like to think we both have our areas of maturity and immaturity. Most couples tend to parent each other in areas of deficiency. I'd guess we are no different.

[DasPope]

If your current wife had that "issue" with your previous wife who died - how does she explain that cheating helps the marriage?

I think I was pretty clear her issues there had nothing to do with her infidelity whatsoever so I have no idea of what your referring to. As for the second part I've never said that she stated that cheating helped our marriage so I don't know where that comes from.

I think your just making up pure fiction here.

 

How does she explain that many one night stands would help the marriage?

 

Again I've never said that she said or implied that it did ....your making this up as you go along.

[DasPope]

She hid it because she'd compartmentalized, separated it from her marriage. She realizes now that this was selfish thinking and almost cost her what is most important to her.

 

That is pretty much it in a nutshell....

[DasPope]

You are in a sense lucky that because your wife hooked up with random me. She met in bars that you have not had to worry about the so called "fog" bull **** that a lot of men go through with WW when they get into emotional and prolonged affairs with the same person . That can be slow torture and the inability to get out of the fog or stop contact with OM kills many marriages.

 

Yes It's very fortunate that I've been able to avoid that. As I previously said if it had of been like that I would not have been able to reconcile.

 

The down side of your situation is your wife did not take months or weeks of being pursued with lunches and dinners and gifts. She met me she could simply not say no to, and at her age it is highly unlikely she will not encounter men that tempt her again. What she does to work on her boundaries and becoming unavailable will determine if the cheating does not happen again.

 

Yes that's somewhat true and also no because it's precisely because it was nothing ongoing or emotional that enabled me to take a path forward. It just seemed less threatening somehow then the first scenario would feel.

[DasPope]

Has she rehashed over and over in front of the counselor what she will do when she encounters a hot make who she is tempted by a conquest?

 

Ok I've read this sentence several times and I must admit I still don't have a clue what your saying.

 

What is her plan for when that happens (and it will since she lives in the real world).

 

See above ... When what exactly happens?

 

How can she trust herself to have some sense of self control now and moving forward?

 

How can anyone trust themselves and practice self control ? Such things are learned behaviors.

 

What she was doing is totally a power play on men. What work has she addressed to understand that her power play is hurtful to you?

 

Have you two discussed that concept and what does she say about it?

 

Again I must admit I don't quite understand what you are referring to with this "power play on men" phrase.

It is not something I'm familiar with in our circumstances and certainly not something we have discussed.

[dichotomy]

What are your boundaries now? needs/wants, to stay in the marriage? How will you know they are being kept? What if you wife is unhappy with these new boundaries?