Should I sacrifice myself for my children?

[Popsicle]

Thank you all Again! I deserve the anger. And buckeye2, especially from you. I had meant to write you and thank you for offering something very touching to me ... to look at the pictures and tell me what they revealed, to spare me the hurt of looking at them. Thank you! For a stranger to offer that to me ... Thank you!

 

And thank you to all for the tough love! It was hard to read what you wrote. Because you were right, absolutely right. I am being weak. No, not on purpose to not appreciate your good advice. Frankly, if not for your advice, I would have never found as much as I did.

 

About the Facebook app ... It didn't work. It was all a scam app. It retrieved only the archived messages, and not the deleted ones (apparently there is a difference). But ... I didn't let her know this. I bluffed. I told her it worked. I told her I was going to take my laptop to a library and look at it there, so that I would control my anger. I don't want to get into details, but trust me when I say that I had successfully convinced that I could see it. For example, I showed her one penis picture I got offline, and she was distraught when she saw a printout, crying, asking why you are torturing yourself. She didn't recognize that it was not his. Anyways, she gave me a few other details, not significant, but the same type of filthy stuff. So I left to the library. A while later, i send her a message: "I know everything! You did do it." She called me distraught, crying on the phone voice mail. I didn't pick up the phone, She called 11 times and 10 texts. All saying, why would you say that? I never did that. Swearing to our children's lives, etc, that she didn't know what it could possibly be because she said she never did it.

 

To take a step back a minute ... A week ago, I had contacted the OM's wife via email, telling her everything I knew, plus the bluff that I knew they had sex on his business trip. A few days after that, I contacted him from my wife's phone, pretending to me her, and after a couple of innocent lines, I said "I am sorry I had to tell everything to him, and he has contacted your wife." To my surprise, he seemed to buy into it. So he told her/me that it was ok, but why the heck did you tell him that we slept together on my trip. I wasn't able to contain my anger that he'd dare to talk to her still (I had sent him messages and a voicemail from my own phone, to which he didn't respond at all). Anyways, i cussed him and told him off. No response after he realized it was me. Still, it is possible that he was clever (after all he pulled that off for a long time). It is possible that he knew from the get-go it was me (my wife had known nothing about it though), and he was just trying to corroborate her story.

 

Back to my ungrateful wayward wife ... I didn't return her messages or calls, except for one "why are you still lying to me." She kept insisting that she had not done it.

 

Frankly, it does not really matter whether they did it or not. I know (per her confession) that she would sit at home (while I provided her with the ability not to work), and send him such messages as "I have been thinking about you." "I want to do this or that with you." And she didn't deny that I "knew" his di*ck was bigger than mine (I am sure it was; not because I am small, but just average, but because she would have denied that ... yes, I am VERY pathetic; she has done that to me, or maybe she did that to me BECAUSE she had always known I was pathetic).

 

What hurt me the most (the latest wave) was that she had NEVER ever in our marriage ever talked dirty to me like that. It was very hurtful to see a side of your wife that you never knew was there. To know now that you had never been capable of bringing out that side of her in the last 15 years of your marriage.

 

So, back to the "library" ... While I was leaving her hanging and ignoring her calls, I was actually then at a lawyer's office, talking about my options. Frankly, I later that day chickened out. But first, after the meeting, I called her back and told her that I knew she did do it, and I was at the lawyer's office. She still denied everything! Crying, begging for forgiveness for the things she had done.

 

So I came home. She was begging me to go counseling, and trashing herself for what she has done. By then, I had already outed her to her immediate family (telling them all the gory details, including to her dad, who is a preacher). At this time, I don't think she had anything to lose by stopping denying that she did it in person. She didn't think I was bluffing. She did believe I had seen something. When I came home and showed the lawyer's card and shared the details, she still kept saying, I didn't do it!

 

Anyways, after that, I became convinced that she didn't do it. I dont have any way knowing, and if she did all this, I am sure she can ace the poly as well.

 

Still though, of course, what she has done was still bad enough. I'd divorce her still, but the details from the lawyer were scary ... I simply cannot afford it without going bankrupt. Don't get me wrong. If there was no way out, I'd find a way to go thru.

 

But then ... and this is where the commenter PTEROMOM and I somewhat agree ... What if she is right, right? What if this was indeed a sexual fantasy and she never crossed the line. The fact that she stopped (if she did) should count for something too, right? And I know she has been calling dozens of counselors to try to get us in ASAP. She keeps saying we can do better, etc. And she truly seems to realize how much she hurt me. I Will never forgive or forget what she did to me. But I also need to think rationally, like PTEROMOM says ... what is the rush? Why not give counseling a chance? I am first to admit that I had not been a perfect or good husband, calling her lazy in the past, not listening to her, etc ... and more. Don't my two daughters deserve at least that from me? Yes, pride is very important. But why cannot I take one for the team, even if my wife does not deserve it ... Swallow my pride for a bit longer. And if that does not work, then I can still divorce, right. I have already have the lawyer thing started.

 

And, you may hate me for this, and this does not mean I don't appreciate all the GREAT (frankly some of the best I have ever gotten from ANYBODY) advice you have given me. I don't want to single anyone out, But there are a half-a-dozen posters here that are amazingly insightful. And kind enough to share it with strangers. I appreciate it. I know you might think I have used you ungratefully. Such is not the case. My wife has done truly horrible things, and you are right to detest me for giving someone like that another chance. And you are right. I am weak. So why don't I just wait a little longer. I know you want to slap me (BuckeyEye2, strangely when you said that I felt like almost tearing up), because a part of me agrees with you. I am so conflicted. Which is why I don't want to make a rash decision. But I also must admit the possibility that this guy fro her past was just a nostalgic escape for a bored housewife going thru midlife crisis, phone, sexting, but never crossing the line. I know, I know she crossed the line when she let him call our house over 50 times, and sexting in our bedroom with me in the house. Do I hate her for doing that! Of course! But there are other things I hate even more ... putting my daughters through a divorce without trying counseling first.

 

So we have an appointment tomorrow with one. My wife still believes that I think she had done it, but she continues to say she is clueless. I know, I know ... she must also think this: if he really had anything (a text or message) he would have long shown it to me. She might think: I will get to that point when I am staring at an actual proof. Unfortunately, I do not have such a proof. And a polygraph won't do it either. But I just realized ... I must try that too, just as I should try that too. It costs $600. I think it is worth it ... at least knowing that I had tried that. You are right. I will always regret not doing that and not knowing for sure. So onto counseling and polygraph.

 

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR ADVICE AND TIME!!!

 

Dude, your M is ruined and all this stuff you're doing will make it worse, not better. If you really want to teach her a lesson AND have a shot at happiness, you need to leave her.

[aliveagain]

Friend, your going to do what you think is best for your family, just don't continue to compromise yourself because of her lack of integrity. Make your decision regarding reconciliation based on her actions, commit to the marriage when she has proven that she herself is committed. Talk to a lawyer about a post nuptial agreement, your at your strongest now. She may agree to a post nup now but not in the future when things are back to normal. You need to feel safe.

[jnel921]

During the 8 months my wife and I tried to reconcile, I kept discovering more and more of the truth. I can't count the number of times she said (with tears in her eyes) that I knew everything there was to know and that she'd never lie to me again. Discovering 13 hotel stays lead her to say that there were like 30. The truth ended up being more like 60-70. She also insisted that the OM had never been to my home. 8 months in, I found this:

 

Hot Wife Blog - hotwife and cuckold husband fetish discussion

 

She also eventually confessed to having a 3-some with the OM and a prostitute (but said that once it started, she backed out). Uh, huh. .

 

Just read the hot wife blog. So sorry you had to read and go through that. I totally understand why it didn't work out. Not sure how remorseful someone is when they put stuff like that out for everyone to read.

 

It doesn't take away from my own feeling about how my H felt or maybe vocalized to the OW when he sent her a pic of his hard **** that she sent me. I knew in his mind he was telling her this is how you make me feel, I want to f*** you! and everything else in the book that comes with that kind of lust. I never heard it, but they say a picture speaks a thousand words. So that was my interpretation.

 

It is hurtful. Knowing that our WS are not the same person we fell in love with. The love they have for us isn't whole when they do things like this. my H says through it all he loved me. But I cannot process that. Love brings your a$$ home. Not into the bed of another woman.

 

It's been almost 2 years and I know now my H feels whole in his feelings about me, and us. But this isn't without scars, or without hurt.

 

Your XW I am sure will be this way until the end. Just like my XH who never changes and has only gotten worse. Living in fantasies gets you nowhere. At least not the real love everyone deserves.

[Popsicle]

During the 8 months my wife and I tried to reconcile, I kept discovering more and more of the truth. I can't count the number of times she said (with tears in her eyes) that I knew everything there was to know and that she'd never lie to me again. Discovering 13 hotel stays lead her to say that there were like 30. The truth ended up being more like 60-70. She also insisted that the OM had never been to my home. 8 months in, I found this:

 

Hot Wife Blog - hotwife and cuckold husband fetish discussion

 

She also eventually confessed to having a 3-some with the OM and a prostitute (but said that once it started, she backed out). Uh, huh.

 

 

Not to t/j, but how did you verify that this was your wife and not some random person on the internet?

[JohnBol]

I now see what people mean by 'roller-coster' and 'waves'. Something small: I was calling our home number, and herrecording says, "Hi, this is Amy and John, blah, blah." It made me realize: This other man would have heard this message so many times, and discarded the John part like a piece of garbage." It was like I was the doormat and he stepped over me to then have a phone sex with the mother of my children. One of whom by the way was only 1 months old one she started this.

 

Anyways. ... And I hate the wave-nature of dealing with an infidelity. Or, it is like there is a bunch of painpoints lining up at my door, waiting their turn to have a hearing and tear my heart apart. Anyways. The next one was: Does she even love me? Silly question right? The fact that now this question has been rendered silly is what completely floored me, right. Making me question my sanity for even daring to ask myself of this question. How could she have loved me AND do this? Of course, she does not love me. She keeps saying it though. I hate myself for being so weak to accept the truth. I used to think of myself as a strong person. Now I find myself searching my innermost psyche to find something to explain her behavior, and to apologize to her, and to work on fixing things. And that makes me feel all the more STUPID! That I would degrade myself like that?

 

Like most people, I haven't been perfect though. I would occasionally call her names before the DDay, but only out of sheer frustration due to her lack of intimacy and affection towards me. I am now blaming myself for it. Truth be told that, I had known that she didn't feel I had treated her right, complaining to some friends and family that I was mean to her. But this was such an exaggeration! She knew she could have put my doubts about her attraction for me, by simply ... she confessed that she climaxed together with this guy over the phone. I have seen some of the texts of her talking erotically to him. Why couldn't she do that to me, and help our marriage? I would have shut my mouth right there and then, if she ever told me too over the phone: "I am so wet thinking about you!" And she tormented me and told me it was all in my head."

 

She insists that she loves me. But can that really be true, given what she has done? I would especially appreciate the opinion of women on this. And please be brutally honest with me. Could a woman (or man) really do what she did to the perosn she says she loves? I know I too have checked out other women's pictures and gotten arousal of it, and yet continued to love my wife. But these were anonymous pictures. With her, she talked to him almost every day for nearly 9 months, and did all this stuff. I know it is not the same. I know she has hurt me so much.

 

Why am I such a weak person to accept the unavoidable? That she does not love me. I need someone to slap me and shake me really hard. Unfortunately I don't have someone like that in my life. Instead, I am flailing, running around like a chicken with his head cut off. I talk to her endlessly. She is very apologetic, and tells me all the details (or at least some of them). But none of that makes any sense any more. She loves me? Or does she hate the idea of a divorce, her family and friends knowing what she did to cause the divorce, to avoid being a low-income person, to avoid having to start a new life, and our children's future (I know she loves them). But I cannot allow myself to be part of a cost/benefit analysis. I do and yet also do not need her to lie to me that she loves. And yet I am drawn to her like a moth to candlight. I torment her too by asking such stupid questions as: does not this mean that you were sexually more attracted to him than me at that time? The poor woman. And poor me. I am just a total mess. I need someone to slap some sense into me. I need to grow a pair. And the fact that I cannot is probably part of the reason why she went for another man, even if just on a phone.

 

This infidelity thing is so strange. One day your life is normal, the next, it is like you get woken up very early in the morning, dragged out of bed violently, shoved onto a coach and asked to make the most painful and colossal decision of your life? What do I give up? Dignity or this or that? I should have never been in this spot. I want to go back to my shell. A part of me wishes I had never known. Come on and call me all kind of names. That is actually why I came out again.

[Btrade]

Ive seen worse recover including bdsm, acts given to the om the wife denied the husband, sex in the marital bed...

 

Do the poly. Tell her she can change her answers until you get to the door. Once inside answers are locked. Failure means divorce. Last minute changes are called parking lot confessions.

 

 

Make sure she is okay with having email, fb etc monitored for as long as YOU see fit. You have no statute of limitations.

[No Limit]

She insists that she loves me. But can that really be true, given what she has done?

 

In my opinion, no. I don't think someone who cheats loves their partner. And in your case, with her throwing an endless amount of "I love you"'s at you, it sounds like gas lighting, rug sweeping.

 

2 days ago, on a different forum, a guy wrote how he handled his cheating wife. He exposed her to at least 200 people - including her family, her coworkers, her friends and even her lovers' friends - and told her to get her a$$ back into the house. Used her for sex until the divorce was finalized, immediately left for his own new place that day, and a year after the divorce his ex even became his most convenient f!ck buddy.

Like most people (judging from the comments) I just thought to myself "Wow, what a man!"

 

Now, after the initial bravado, there's more to it than just break up and be on your way (which you can't do anyway because you have kids).

 

1. Divorce is the end of marriage and all chains that hold you in a very toxic place. Divorced, you can choose to return to it whenever you please, but without having to do a few walks of shame every day.

 

2. In the story I posted above, it's quite obvious that the cheating wife - like most cheaters - is a very weak, and very broken person. The writer used that to his advantage like the other man/men did - and gets free sex. I'm not saying that you should do the same, but personally I think it is better to have the upper hand and control rather than being screwed over and over again.

 

And stop blaming yourself. Yes, calling her names was a bad choice of action. But so was her lack of intimacy to you. If she has a tongue, hands or eyes she was perfectly capable of communicating with you - but no, she chose to hop into at least 1 other bed. These are her issues, not yours.

Edited September 14, 2014 by No Limit

[BetrayedH]

Not to t/j, but how did you verify that this was your wife and not some random person on the internet?

 

The webmaster for the site sent her an email letting her know that he had a new site and hoped that she's submit another story. He also copied the original story in his message to her. My wife didn't know I knew about that email address, let alone that I had the password to it. If I hadn't randomly gotten a gut feeling around Christmas that she and OM must have been in touch with each other, I may have never seen the message. I would be like John - reconciling and trying to believe that I knew everything, blah, blah, blah.

Edited September 14, 2014 by BetrayedH

[aliveagain]

She knows your weakness, your weak, so unless YOU change her perception of you by taking other actions this will always be your life. Most are weak because of their fear of the unknown, you are looking at your situation the wrong way. You already know your outcome and worse case scenario if you change nothing, what you mistake for fear is actually the first steps required to make the necessary changes that will make your life better. Your frozen because the moment you take that first step there will be no going back to the time when you were innocent and maybe even purposely avoided all the red flags around you. You only have two choices, do nothing and accept that you will be sharing your wife with other men or show her that your balls are bigger than the looser's she cheating with and that she doesn't meet your standards of a wife.

 

Don't let it be her choice, she has already proven she makes poor choices. The longer you let this drag on the weaker you look. It is time to decide, what would your father have done?

[drifter777]

OP: everything you are feeling and agonizing over is as predictable as the sun rising in the east. Loss of focus, blaming yourself, periods of blind rage, and bending over backwards to believe her lies. Oh, and defending her by assuring all of us how open & honest & remorseful she is. Unless you dig in and fight for your self esteem & and sense of right and wrong your just going to end up sad & humiliated living in an unhappy marriage.

 

Do the poly. You have to know the full extent of her betrayal and you cannot believe her. She will take the truth to her grave if you don't find a way to get it out of her.

 

Whether she did or didn't - she cheated. Its only the extent of that cheating that is in doubt. Can YOU live with a cheater?

[lilmisscantbewrong]

As a former MOW and a subsequent BS this really hurts my heart. Please make sure you are getting the truth. And I can tell you from experience, you most likely are not.

 

Demand it - you must know what you are dealing with. She is operating in a fog right now - believe me.

 

I'm so sorry.

[No Limit]

She is operating in a fog right now - believe me.

 

She isn't operating in a fog. She's operating with OM to protect her affair.

[AmyBamy]

Never mind

[merrmeade]

Hi folks, It is such a pity that so much good advice has been given to John Bol which he has acknowledged positively and has seemingly shown that he is moving towards acting on it and then suddenly backtracking and NOT having the courage to take the crucial decision that will free him from his burden forever. I guess that some guys come here to have people sympathize with them and their situation and finally that is all they want. They do not have the courage of conviction to do what needs to be done. All the good advice is just so much water on duck's back. Seems such a waste of the collective effort of so many good people to help someone. Just wish there was a marker which came with people who are incapable of taking tough decisions to improve their lives so that others would not waste their time on them. Maybe the only good that will come out of this is that it could prove to be a helpful template for some one else who is going to be in trouble in future who could use the nuggets of advice offered to Jon Bol. Best wishes to him!

 

I never understand this kind of post. Is it intended to make him feel guilty or ashamed for being confused and having a hard time deciding what to do? Do we not understand what that's like or what? It almost sounds like a parent telling a kid he's an ungrateful son for not following his advice. I mean: Huh? We're adults, believe in free will and support individual growth and development and don't try to control, cajole, badger or shame ... right?

 

Or maybe I'm not being sutble enough and it's half tongue-in-cheek, but I just really don't like manipulating people for any reason. BS does not need to apologize to posters for not taking their advice. It's his freaking life.

 

But back to the question of what to do: Agreement does seem to rest on finding out for sure. Maybe the FB app was a scam but there are cell phone apps that do retrieve deleted messages. The most any of them cost is $30 and some less than that. Not high tech either. Did you try that? And then maybe the polygraph test. But you gotta know.

Edited September 20, 2014 by merrmeade

[merrmeade]

And, you may hate me for this, and this does not mean I don't appreciate all the GREAT ... advice you have given me. ... I know you might think I have used you ungratefully. Such is not the case. ... And you are right. I am weak. So why don't I just wait a little longer. I know you want to slap me ...

 

But I also must admit the possibility that this guy fro her past was just a nostalgic escape for a bored housewife going thru midlife crisis, phone, sexting, but never crossing the line. I know, I know she crossed the line when she let him call our house over 50 times, and sexting in our bedroom with me in the house. Do I hate her for doing that! Of course! But there are other things I hate even more ... putting my daughters through a divorce without trying counseling first.

 

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR ADVICE AND TIME!!!

That's what I mean. It's okay, man. You don't owe anyone. And you're doing fine. There's nothing wrong with admitting you're weak now. It's huge what you're doing, just huge. No one can think straight and whatever you do will still have fallout - and that is not your fault. But don't sacrifice for the kids. Do what's right, and in the long run you will have done what's right for your kids. Truth. Commitment. You have to show THEM those are important - not strangers on LS. You don't answer to the people here. Getting it over with - once you're sure what should happen - probably is the main thing that's important for the kids, then providing the support and therapy for everyone. So go be sure and know you will survive. It's just going to be hard whatever happens. I feel for you.

[oldshirt]

That's what I mean. It's okay, man. You don't owe anyone. And you're doing fine. There's nothing wrong with admitting you're weak now. It's huge what you're doing, just huge. No one can think straight and whatever you do will still have fallout - and that is not your fault. But don't sacrifice for the kids. Do what's right, and in the long run you will have done what's right for your kids. Truth. Commitment. You have to show THEM those are important - not strangers on LS. You don't answer to the people here. Getting it over with - once you're sure what should happen - probably is the main thing that's important for the kids, then providing the support and therapy for everyone. So go be sure and know you will survive. It's just going to be hard whatever happens. I feel for you.

 

Somehow the quotes got goofed up. I did not say that. I am not the OP of this thread.

[merrmeade]

Somehow the quotes got goofed up. I did not say that. I am not the OP of this thread.

Yes, I know you aren't. It was a copy/paste goof - sorry!

 

I felt bad for the OP that he's now dealing with this overlay of obligation to the people giving him advice. These were the excerpts I meant to paste to that effect:

Thank you all Again! I deserve the anger.

And thank you to all for the tough love! It was hard to read what you wrote. Because you were right, absolutely right. I am being weak. No, not on purpose to not appreciate your good advice.

 

And, you may hate me for this, and this does not mean I don't appreciate all the GREAT ... advice you have given me. ... I appreciate it. I know you might think I have used you ungratefully. Such is not the case. ... and you are right to detest me for giving someone like that another chance. And you are right. I am weak. So why don't I just wait a little longer. I know you want to slap me .... I am so conflicted. Which is why I don't want to make a rash decision.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR ADVICE AND TIME!!!

I'm glad, JB, to have reread that post and realize that you're not really as all over the place as it seemed on first read. Even though you're apologizing, you're also presenting your reasons for taking your time and considering all scenarios - even though I did not include those in the quote.

 

This makes me feel very sad and wish I could give you the proper guy confidence to tackle the next scene, since my mothering urges may not work as well. Still, I keep envisioning Aibileen in "The Help," making her little charge repeat constantly that she is kind, smart and important to try and counter the effects of the mother's neglect and abuse toward the little girl. I think that's what we should all be saying here, that BECAUSE you are kind and and smart, you WILL be able to figure out and do what is good and right for everybody, including yourself. And because you ARE important, many people do LOVE and RESPECT you.

Edited September 21, 2014 by merrmeade

[Try]

A little background ... She had already confessed that they had talked about meeting in person when she was visiting the area for the Christmas (her parents live 1.5 hours from him). But she had told me that it was vague and without any specific plans, and she HAD NEVER done anything,

 

 

Now, looking at the screen, she said the following:

- The conversations has been inappropriate from the beginning and not gotten there eventually (as she had said)

- She had Googled the distance from her parents house to a place someone in the middle between them (before her flight to the parent's house)

- They had discussed that she would tell her parents she was going to a spa

- They sexted while she was at her parent's house (with our 9 month old next to her)

Although she claims that her plans to meet up with her lover were "vague and without any specific plans", they sound pretty specific when it even includes telling her parents that she was going to a spa. Without telling your wife, call one of her parents and ask them if she went "to a spa on that trip like she claims". If they say yes, then you know that she saw her lover.

[JohnBol]

First, thanks again to all for their advice. A quick update from me ... I am trying to reconcile, but it is very hard. Almost on a daily basis, and often more than once a day, I relapse, angry at what she has done. To refresh your memory, my wife has been having "internet" affair for her ex high school boyfriend, who lives in a different state. Since May 2012, they had been sexting, but presumably stopped in Jan 2013. When I caught her texting him Aug 2014, she said this was not the same thing, but just a quick hello. No phone calls -- which I did verify. But back in Dec 2012, they had planned to meet while she was visiting her parents in VA. Upon learning that I was going to check her browsing history etc, she confessed that she had googled driving directions, and spa location (to use as an alibi with her parents). She said she didn't go through because of "me" and our 8-month old baby who was with her at her parent's house during the trip. Frankly, I don't believe they met in person. I had sent his wife an email, telling her that they had slept together. And he later wrote her a text saying, "Why did you tell your husband we did it? What was that about?"

 

Regardless, even if they didn't ... It does not really matter. I have seen her sextings. In them, she was not the same cold "Victorian" woman, but a total slu$. Telling him things she had never told or done with me.

 

My brain wants to divorce her! Everyday I go back and forth. But I have two young children. My wife will definitely descend into poverty and she has a lot of medical problems requiring expensive meds. She is totally "remorseful" and wants me to forgive her, etc. But I am not an idiot. It is not me that she is afraid to lose, but her "old, normal" wife. Yes, she is much better in bed. But I feel totally manipulated. I feel like I am the price she is willing to pay to keep her life together. How can I anyone ever trust a cheater?

 

She is being "truthful" now, no matter how hard the questions are. E.g., I asked her whose thing was bigger. Judging by the pictures she confessed with reluctance, that his, but added that it didn't matter, and that she didn't do it for that reason. Asked if they had discussed how they would do it in person, she said they planned to use protection. As you can see, the discussion of committing adultery had gone pretty far. E.g., she says that the fact that her trip to her parents coincided with his travel plans in the area was a coincidence only. And that they didn't do it. But my biggest suspicion comes from the fact that following her return home, we fought over se$ a lot. I believe we didn't do it for a long time. I believe it was because she felt weird, having been with another guy and then being with me again.

 

I feel so weak. I cannot bring myself to divorce. I try to convince myself that she can be forgiven. My her lies went on for so long. There was a long period of time during which they would talk on the phone everyday. He would leave work at 5, and call her from his car, and talk about his day and his horrible boss. I would leave work at 6, and she would the exact same thing with me. Being able to joggle two men like that ... How can stay married to a woman a person like that. And there was one big difference! He knew at the time what was going on, But I didn't. I was the Second choice.

 

And there is no way for me to find for sure that she didn't sleep with him. She knows that it will be impossible for me to forgive that. I think she'd rather die than confess. And polygraph is not that reliable. But most importantly, does it even matter if they met in person? Betrayal is a state of mind. And she clearly had it for a very long time.

 

The temptation to put my head in the sand is so great. I know that I have this strong urge to believe her that she does love me, and wants to build a better marriage with me. But ... as a man, I can never forget and forgive reading her texts to him, where she describes in filthy detail the things she wanted to do with him. I have the date of that particular text, and an earlier email where she had looked up movies times so that I could take my daughter to the latest Madagascar movie.

 

Where can I get a strength to divorce? My daughter loves her kindergarten, and I have worked so hard to financially get where I am in life. We are not rich. We have some debt, etc. But we are comfortable. I am 38 years old. I don't dread starting anew. In fact, it excites me. It is just I THINK I still love her, and know how hard her life, and my children's, will be. Not to mention, my own. I hate the fact that she has made me the guy to press the button, although she had effectively done so. And during a conversation with her dad, who is a pastor, he basically asked me: it takes two people to destroy a marriage; are you going to be ok with your children living in poverty? The question struck me like a thunder. I know I am being manipulated. But it is working. But reading on infidelity, it does not seem likely to get much better. Infidelity causes such primal feelings in people, almost animalistic and reflexive repulsion against being cuckolded ... Is this what the rest of my life going to be? Vacillating between divorce and forgiveness. And speaking of forgiveness, her Christian pastor dad tells me all about forgiveness. He has been very lax with her, never condemning her behavior, other than simply stating that she did something wrong. If my daughter did something like that, I would be so upset with her. No he. All about forgiveness ... We are all sinners, he says. I am not a religious person, and will not be reborn again so that I can bring myself to live with an unfaithful wife.

 

I am completely paralyzed. I always prided myself in being decisive and doing what is right. Now I am questioning my own character. How can I allow myself to be this weak. Can I ever forgive her? No, I cannot envision myself forgetting/forgiving that she cared so little about me that she conspired with another man to destroy my honor and dignity, and play Russian roulette with my life every time she let him call our house number as a 900 number. I asked her: did you not fear that I could catch your phone calls on Verizon? Or is it because you knew I trusted you and would never check my phone records? Did that not make you feel ashamed at the time time to know that I trusted you, AND to know that I SHOULDN'T. Silence.

 

I need someone to slap me into sense. I haven't told my own family. I know that if I told my brother, he would shame me into acting. FYI, I am originally from a Middle Eastern country, where such things are unthinkable (forgiving an unfaithful wife). My wife is an American. I resent her so much for proving the cliche known in our region: American women are loose. Of course, I know this is not true at all. Cheating knows no nationality. But I resent her because if I told my family, they'd be like: what did we tell you when you were marrying her? They are wrong, of course. But in my specific case ... And she had always know how infidelity is viewed in my culture. And for her to go and do this was doubly daring and reckless. She clearly must have been so enflamed with lust after that guy that she didn't care about me, about her children's future, about anything ... As a husband, for me to know that she felt that way towards another man while being married to me is COMPLETELY unforgivable.

 

I hate cheaters of all colors, nationalities, and gender. I wish there was a genetic test you could ask people to take before marrying them.

[Striver]

Sorry man. It is a tough situation.

 

Your father-in-law is wrong. Often it only takes one to destroy a marriage. My wife is proof of that. Unilateral divorce, no counseling, no discussion. I just have to pick up the pieces.

 

Good luck in making your decisions. Get counselling in a way that works for you.

[oldshirt]

Thanks for the update John. I have to admit it was very painful and heartbreaking to read but you write very well and are very good at expressing yourself. That is a skill that may come in very handy during counseling.

 

I have some responses in bold to some of your statements below.

 

 

 

 

I am trying to reconcile, but it is very hard.

 

 

it is hard. And it can take many months and sometimes even a couple years to completely reconcile and heal. And that is with BOTH people giving it their all.

 

 

 

Regardless, even if they didn't ... It does not really matter. I have seen her sextings. In them, she was not the same cold "Victorian" woman, but a total slu$. Telling him things she had never told or done with me.

 

 

you may or may not ever be able to forgive and get past that.

 

Only you can determine if it's worth trying or not.

 

My brain wants to divorce her! Everyday I go back and forth. But I have two young children. My wife will definitely descend into poverty and she has a lot of medical problems requiring expensive meds. She is totally "remorseful" and wants me to forgive her, etc. But I am not an idiot. It is not me that she is afraid to lose, but her "old, normal" wife. Yes, she is much better in bed. But I feel totally manipulated. I feel like I am the price she is willing to pay to keep her life together.

 

 

that hurts just reading it but I can see why you feel that way.

 

 

 

How can I anyone ever trust a cheater?

 

you may be able to regain trust over time - but you may not. That is the risk cheaters take when they cheat.

 

She is being "truthful" now, no matter how hard the questions are. E.g., I asked her whose thing was bigger. Judging by the pictures she confessed with reluctance, that his, but added that it didn't matter, and that she didn't do it for that reason.

 

 

I'll give her that one. I'm sure that wasn't for that reason but there were likely many other reasons and I'm sure that doesn't really help.

 

Has she given any indication as to 'why.'

 

 

 

Asked if they had discussed how they would do it in person, she said they planned to use protection.

 

 

i'm sure she's BSing you and telling you what you want to hear on that one. When cheaters are having their sex chats, they do not discuss protection.

 

As you can see, the discussion of committing adultery had gone pretty far. E.g., she says that the fact that her trip to her parents coincided with his travel plans in the area was a coincidence only.

 

that is a pretty ominous sign unfortunately :-(

 

 

And that they didn't do it. But my biggest suspicion comes from the fact that following her return home, we fought over se$ a lot. I believe we didn't do it for a long time. I believe it was because she felt weird, having been with another guy and then being with me again.

 

 

that is a well documented part of the process and is also a pretty ominous sign. Many women become "faithful" to the OM and feel uncomfortable and 'dirty' having relations with their husbands. They feeling like they are cheating on the OM. That's a very bad sign.

 

 

I feel so weak. I cannot bring myself to divorce.

 

 

there is no statute of limitations on divorce after adultery. There are people that make a good faith effort to reconcile that realize they can't do it months and even years down the road.

 

The future is still undecided here. Things may start getting better and better and your reconciliation works. Or something else might happen or you get to the point where you decide it's best to throw in the towel.

 

What is certain is the pain and uncertainty at the moment will suck.

 

I don't dread starting anew. In fact, it excites me.

 

 

that is a good sign for you, but also an ominous sign for your marriage. The fact that you are excited about a new life without her would also indicate to a counselor that this marriage may not be salvageable.

 

 

 

 

 

It is just I THINK I still love her, and know how hard her life, and my children's, will be.

 

children's lives are negatively impacted when one or both parents abandon them. You would still continue to love and support them and you haven't said anything about her not being a good mother. They will still have two loving and supporting parents, just not in the same house.

 

Not to mention, my own. I hate the fact that she has made me the guy to press the button, although she had effectively done so.

 

you have to make a stand here. You have to either lay down the law and say how the marriage is going to be and do the steps to make it so. Or you are going to have to pull the plug. Yeah that's shtty she puts you in that situation but it is what it is.

 

And during a conversation with her dad, who is a pastor, he basically asked me: it takes two people to destroy a marriage; are you going to be ok with your children living in poverty?

 

 

he's flat out wrong there. It takes two people to save a marriage but only ONE to destroy it.

 

He is simply looking out for his little girl. He and her family are never going to be fully on your side here. I think you did the right thing by telling them what happened and what is going on, but they are always going to look out for HER best interests. Just accept that

 

Do NOT tell your family yet!!! More on that later.

 

 

I know I am being manipulated.

 

 

ok good. As long as you know that.

 

 

 

 

 

But reading on infidelity, it does not seem likely to get much better. Infidelity causes such primal feelings in people, almost animalistic and reflexive repulsion against being cuckolded ... Is this what the rest of my life going to be?

 

 

no, it's not going to be this forever. Something will give eventually. Youll either fore give and move forward or pull the plug eventually.

 

I am completely paralyzed.

 

you're really not. You just have to work through the process. As long as you are taking definative steps, you are making progress.

 

 

 

 

I need someone to slap me into sense. I haven't told my own family. I know that if I told my brother, he would shame me into acting.

 

 

 

this is really important at this time - Do NOT tell your family this yet!!!

 

Do not tell them while you are trying to reconcile!!!! You can tell them once the decision is made to divorce but do not tell them during the reconciliation.

 

If they find out about this, they will forever hate her and scorn her and shame her. They may also scorn and shame you for keeping her. That will add another whole level of stress and torment to an already stressed marriage.

 

 

As a husband, for me to know that she felt that way towards another man while being married to me is COMPLETELY unforgivable.

 

 

 

I hate cheaters of all colors, nationalities, and gender. I wish there was a genetic test you could ask people to take before marrying them.

 

y'know, I'll say this for your wife, if your feelings of contempt and bitterness and hatred and disrespect towards her are this strong, you may actually be doing her a disservice by trying to stay with her.

 

You have a right to be angry and sad and scared and disappointed, but you don't have a right to mistreat her or treat her with shame and humiliation or especially to ever harm or abuse her.

 

I know you haven't said anything about mistreating her yet, but if you feel this much contempt and discuss towards her, how long will it be before you do???

 

Yes I understand that divorce may mean she struggles to maintain her standard of living, but living with a man who sees her as dog sht between the treads of his shoes may be worse than living in a little apartment with a tight budget.

 

If you can't get past this, there may come a point where it's best for her if you let her go. There may even come a point where she can't live with your contempt and she leaves you.

 

 

 

See my responses above.

 

Also I haven't seen counseling or therapy mentioned.

 

You simply HAVE to have professional counseling here. You need both marital counseling to address the marital and relationship issues and you probably also need to have independent counseling yourself to help you deal with your anger,contempt and shame issues.

 

This situation is way beyond what you can fix without professional intervention.

[dichotomy]

Bottom line only you can decide to stay or leave. Both choice have consequences.

 

I will tell you my decision to stay was based in part on what was in it for me, not because I "felt" love for my wife. I know that sounds harsh, but at the time of dDay, I carefully examined which choice would yield the best (or least worst) option for ME. I still make that choice all the time, years later and I still seek to make things better for me, and mine. Your wife is now second class citizen in your marriage, your #1 (and your child), act that way no matter what.

[drifter777]

You are a man (like me) for whom sex is a precious, sacred thing. Based on everything I've learned about infidelity you will never accept what she did, never forgive what she did, and never forgive yourself if you stay married. But you can stay for the kids if that is most important to you. In fact, maybe if you make it clear to your wife that you are living together only for financial reasons and stop living like man & wife you can do this without destroying your self respect. When financial circumstances change or the kids grow up you walk away for good. Something like this might work if you are willing to give a big part of your life for your kids.

[veryhappy]

Your pain is so raw. I'm sorry for your torment and i say that as a fMOW.

 

 

Women can move past infidelity, they slain the slutty OW, rinse and reclaim their h. Men are more sensitive and while they may hit the guy in a fit of rage, they have a harder time moving past it in relationship with their partner. My therapist once told me she is seeing a couple where he still can't accept she cheated 30 years ago. 30 years!

 

 

You are not ready to divorce, so my suggestion is treat it as business. Put an expiration date on the marriage and work out a plan with your wife, If she starts working, if your kids get older and in school, if you split custody 50- 50 maybe you can divorce in 5 years? You don't need to do it now, just make it clear what your expectations are. If life is so darn amazing then, you can simply continue married.

 

 

Couple counseling is also a good idea to repair your m or make you work through whatever arrangement you'll have going.

[dichotomy]

Your pain is so raw. I'm sorry for your torment and i say that as a fMOW.

 

 

Women can move past infidelity, they slain the slutty OW, rinse and reclaim their h. Men are more sensitive and while they may hit the guy in a fit of rage, they have a harder time moving past it in relationship with their partner. My therapist once told me she is seeing a couple where he still can't accept she cheated 30 years ago. 30 years!

 

 

You are not ready to divorce, so my suggestion is treat it as business. Put an expiration date on the marriage and work out a plan with your wife, If she starts working, if your kids get older and in school, if you split custody 50- 50 maybe you can divorce in 5 years? You don't need to do it now, just make it clear what your expectations are. If life is so darn amazing then, you can simply continue married.

 

 

Couple counseling is also a good idea to repair your m or make you work through whatever arrangement you'll have going.

 

Double like this.