Should I sacrifice myself for my children?

[Popsicle]

I’d appreciate any and all advise, especially the very frank ones.

 

 

I have been married for 14 years, with two children ages 3 and 5. Last week, I saw on my wife’s cell phone a text message to another man: “I am sorry my batteries died.” I was out at a playground with our children. When I first asked her about this, she said there was nothing to it. But when I took away her phone, threatening that I was going to take the phone to an IT specialist to read off everything from the hardware (included the deleted messages), she started to talk, but giving me only info that she thought I could get off the phone. But she didn’t tell me all of the following all at once, but over multiple days. And her last message, which I also read a day later was: “He thinks he caught me deleting our chats, which I always do. I think he is bluffing.”

 

 

My situation:

 

 

1) The guy is from her high school, with whom she used to have sex a few times but never as a regular boyfriend. He lives in a different state, and also married.

 

2) They started talking on Facebook messenger in May 2012, and till Jan 2013, they exchanged dozens of explicit pictures, but would connect rather regularly.

 

3) They had phone sex “a few times”

 

4) He called me house number for over 50+ times when I was at work or out with our children.

 

5) She said it started because I was not being very nice to her at the time, and she needed someone to talk to, and eventually their conversations evolved into the inappropriate.

 

6) She says they never met in person, but discussed what it would feel like to do it in person again during Christmas 2012. At the time, she was visiting her parents with one of my daughters in Virginia. We live in NJ. And he was going to be on a business trip nearby. But she says they never met.

 

7) For many years, frankly there have been tension in our marriage, because I felt that she was cold to me, very stingy with intimacy … She knew how her lack of intimacy was damaging our marriage, as I had clearly communicated to her behavior made me feel rejected, unwanted, etc. She used told me it was all in my head, that she did love me, and found me attractive, but that she was tired, and/or I was too mean. It was a vicious cycle … Her lack of intimacy was a very frustrating experience, and I was vocal (not very) about how it all made me feel. We’d have sex not rarely. But I always felt like if I never initiated it, she would never miss it at all, and whenever she did it, she would regularly tell me that I should go ahead and finish up. Not to say that here and there, there had never been good times, but, let’s put it this way, I have felt very long time that she was not into me.

 

8) She said the conversation with this guy all stopped in January 2013, after I threatened a divorce due to the issues mentioned above regarding feeling rejected by her. Around that time, she would reject me multiple times in a week.

 

9) Thinking back, actually, back in Jan 2013, I did see a text message from him on her phone, telling her “She deserved to be happy.” I asked her about it. And she at the time told me that it was just a friend. Silly me … I believed her. I should have instead checked our home phone records!

 

10) She says what I caught her in August 2014 was not a restart. And they had chatted only a few times over a couple of weeks, nothing serious. Just hi, bye, except one time (the day I caught her) when he was asking if they had ever had sex on “that lake back in high school”, to which she responded that they had just walked. I don’t believe her when she says she wasn’t going to re-start. Why would she have apologized to him for her batteries dying?

 

11) She insists nothing else has happened with him or anyone else.

 

12) She seems remorseful, and want to do counseling and improve. She wants to stay together and work on our marriage. She tells me she has no feeling for him (despite the length of the affair). But how can I trust her?

 

13) Right now, her behavior (in my mind) has proven my suspicions (she does not find me attractive), and I have no trust for anything she has to say. How do I go from here, when my marriage lacks these two fundamental core ingredients: trust and mutual-attraction?

 

14) I love my children, but I am not sure I have the strength to stay with her.

 

15) I think her remorse has more to do with saving her marriage and protecting our children from a divorce, more than her “love” for me.

Should I sacrifice my life for my children’s sake? Can I ever live with someone under the same roof who is causing me to make such a choice?

 

 

Any thoughts? Thanks for reading my post.

 

 

Divorce her.

 

This will be the best thing for both you and her.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Popsicle

[dichotomy]

Divorce is an option - probably a strong one here.

 

 

 

But...... I don't want a rosy picture for this ....if you go this route of divorce...do so with very clear expectations - divorcing her (with kids involved) does not mean you wipe your hands of her and walk off into the sunset ....happy and free, tons of great women banging on your door and bed.

 

Even in divorce you will be tied to her through the kids. there will be plenty of games and fights over the children - money - visitation - etc. tears and anger more blame games, bad mouthing you to them - it will not go away with a divorce. And wait if she starts dating every jerk off in the area, or marries one of them - wait till your kids call him dad.

 

 

Unless you have a good and decent divorce - it will remain difficult. It could be better in many ways - but divorcing with kids has its difficulties.

 

I am a child of divorce, and also part of a second marriage with one child from my wife's ex husband. Plenty of heartache. But...no one regrets those divorces just saying it was no cake walk.

[JohnBol]

Thank you again to all who have responded. I really appreciate your advice. And not to abuse your generosity of time and advice … I think at this very juncture I need your advice the most!! Here is why:

 

 

 

1) I have located a means for retrieve most if not all of deleted messages including FaceBook.

 

 

2) I sat down my wife yesterday and asked her to tell me even the filthiest details. “I’d rather hear it from you first, to avoid the shock value”.

 

 

3) She did tell me a lot of things. So she does realize I am not bluffing. And I am not. The app for it costs 99 cents.

 

4) In the end I decided not to see those images and texts. She warned me they would upset me. And of course she is right. I feel like she has already told me everything. So I decided not to look, and have chosen to believe her (she gave me a lot of very damaging info already).

 

 

5) She insisted that the message would not reveal an actual contact (e.g., meeting details, etc).

 

 

6) After believing her, I am afraid to look because, if we are going to move on, the images or her language, may visually scar me. So I think the decision to see seem literally equals leaving her. Because even if the texts etc all provide what she had told me, except graphically, then frankly I don’t have anything to gain.

 

 

7) Here is the filthy details she has given me already (is this not enough to know she is truthful). But first, what made me suspicious is that she wanted to be by my side to do so (I wanted to be alone to have opportunity to calm myself down first). I believe she is still gambling a little: “if the worst things I am thinking of are indeed there, only then I will switch into damage control. I’d rather wait and do that only when I have to.”

 

 

-- Details she has shared:

 

* She sexted a few time from our bedroom while I was at home but in a different room. Without our 6-month old baby in the room

 

 

* She told him that back in high school she had had the best se@@ of their lives. And she added that she didn’t mean it.

 

 

* She sent him a picture of her va@@ina spread out

 

* She told him stuff like “I cannot wait to fu@@ck your brains out, and stuff like that

 

* She made him eja*culate over the phone twice, and pretended to climax herself together with him

 

* She offered to suck his xxx dry.

 

 

* They openly fantasized about meeting in person

 

I know, humiliating. But I also tell myself that this is fantasy, try to compare it to myself on an adult site if I were to chat with someone.

 

 

 

Should I look at everything myself? Why would she hide anything else, given the filthy stuff she has already admitted. I do not believe I will find there an evidence of them doing it. She is EXTREMELY convincing that no meeting ever took place. I believe her. I believe this was a fantasy based on high school nostalgia. Yes, she has humilated me, never to be forgotten. But I believe she has told me everything now.

 

What should I do? Please be brutally honest!!! I know I am being weak! Am I so eager to move on because the hurt of it all so bad that I am choosing fantasy over reality? The truth is, I had not been kind to her verbally in the past (mostly when I was sexually frustrated). Even know, she could have helped so much with my prior insecurities about her not liking me enough, had she told me 10% of the things she had told him over such a long time!

[BetrayedH]

During the 8 months my wife and I tried to reconcile, I kept discovering more and more of the truth. I can't count the number of times she said (with tears in her eyes) that I knew everything there was to know and that she'd never lie to me again. Discovering 13 hotel stays lead her to say that there were like 30. The truth ended up being more like 60-70. She also insisted that the OM had never been to my home. 8 months in, I found this:

 

 

 

She also eventually confessed to having a 3-some with the OM and a prostitute (but said that once it started, she backed out). Uh, huh.

 

The benefit you have of reading the texts is verifying that what you have been told is actually the truth. When you investigate and find nothing, you both win. You won't be wondering the rest of your life if you're still the fool. That will be a huge plus should you decide to reconcile.

 

Confront your fears by going thru them.

 

That's my $.02

 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Edited September 15, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Btrade]

NJ?

 

15 years. Tick tick tick...

[dichotomy]

What BH said.

 

Retrieve the messages using any means necessary, know it all, rip off the band-aid.

 

Trickle Truth is the most common thing from WS. Many Many of us know this personally. Lie, lie, lie. My wife did it for years, I even did not tell her all I discovered, keeping some details to see if she would ever be honest.

 

Rip of the band-aid, tear down the affair house completely know it all, then rebuild from a new foundation if you wish.

 

Prepare yourself for the worst....from seeing pictures of his huge hairy dick, to her degrading you sexually and otherwise to him, sharing all your weaknesses, to actual evidence they did have sex. Prepare for worst, then review it all, and make copies of all of it.

 

P.S.

 

I will offer one complex observation - one you might not understand right now. What you read her saying...may not be "THE truth" of who she was or is, or was feeling or thinking. THe texts or PM's could be fantasy and BS from her - a game - an act. Keep this in mind as you read them (if you do).

Edited September 10, 2014 by dichotomy

[Steen719]

Look, it takes a "special" kind of person to look straight at you and repeatedly lie. You have read on here how many of us got the trickle truth. How many posts have you read where the WS comes clean right away - no trickle truth, just honesty. Not many posts.

 

Good grief, my XH is STILL lying to me about what he did and this is despite my seeing it in black and white. He does this when he gets on a blaming jag. UGH "you left me for no reason, I didn't do what you said I did, you made something out of nothing" Really, I kid you not!

 

You better think long and hard about leaving it be forever. BH is right; if there is nothing there, you both win. Trusting her to tell you the truth at this point seems to be counter-intuitive.

 

Look it straight in the face instead of deflecting at this point. Dichotomy is right - rip the band aid off. Limbo and uncertainty can kill your spirit.

 

Good luck.

[whatatangledweb]

My husband looked me straight in the face , crying, telling me all kinds of details. Heartbreaking to me and saying I swear there is nothing else. I have lied to you enough.....guess not. I went looking two months later and found out a ton of stuff he left out and just plain lied about. As a BS we all know there are some things we will never know. They will not admit to them if we can't show evidence of it. Why? They normally say it is to protect us , that they don't want to hurt us any further. The truth is to protect themselves. The BS may well kick them out if they know the full truth . My husband did not want me to see just how low he has gone.

 

I did choose to stay with my husband. He went completely transparent and he was remorseful from the start. We had been together over twenty years and had a pretty good marriage...mid life crisis...totally cop out in my opinion. If I had felt like he had found me unattractive for years and the marriage had been bad I would have left.

 

I think that is the part of your story that breaks my heart for you. I am all about second chances. Yet you say she finds herself not attracted to you before this even started. How do you rebuilt on that is my question? You deserve someone who sees you, the real you, past the mistakes or whatever you think you did in the past, and still finds themselves drawn to you.

 

Have you asked her why she wants to stay married? I know you said the kids, her medical issues, and medicines she needs...but why does she want you, not what you provide money wise ?

 

I asked my husband this over and over as I needed that answer. This is what my husband told me " You are my life, you are the one person I can not be without. I hurt you very badly for my selfish reasons yet I never considered that I could lose the one person I value most in life. You are the one I want to grow old with. I know I don't deserve a second chance. But I swear to you I will spend the rst of every day of my life proving how much I love and cherish you".

 

My husband does not share his emotions like that..ever. He is just not that type of person so what he said meant a lot to me. At first I couldn't believe him. How could I ? He betrayed me. Yet he had done exactly what he said then every day for the last three years since I found out.

 

I wish you the best, I really do . And if you want to give her a second chance then I stand behind you. Please make sure you are doing it for the right reason. It will take both of you to make it work. One person can not do it.

 

As for reading all those messages. Once you read them or see the pictures, they will never leave your mind. Make sure you want to see and read them before you do it.

[aliveagain]

Sit her down beside you and let her see your pain as you read out loud each and every disgusting word of infidelity between themselves. Review every disgusting picture they sent each other so you know just how capable your wife is of betraying you if she thinks she can get away with it. You need to know how deep the rabbit hole is, you need to know how disgusting she can be so you can protect yourself and your children adequately. Until you see it for yourself you will never know if you have all the truth. Do not trust her word, verify everything she tells you. Talk to your lawyer about a post nuptial agreement. Do not spare her the shame she deserves to feel. Decide on reconciliation only when you know the entire truth.

[Buckeye2]

I was quite surprised when you posted that you were getting a divorce. I thought you never would because you’re a nice guy that has been taking care of your wife for years. I didn’t think you could even handle the guilt of taking away her health insurance.

 

 

You drew a line in the sand and now you’re afraid to cross it. The line is that if your wife met the OM you have to divorce her. You can erase that line if you want.

 

 

Look at it from your wife’s point of view. Her way of life is over if you divorce her. She thinks that if she screwed the OM it’s a deal breaker for you (I think she’s wrong) so she will do and say anything to prevent it.

 

 

In for a penny, in for a pound!

 

From an old British expression (thus "pound"instead of "dollar"); the original reference was probably to theft,saying that being arrested ("taken in") for stealing a small amountis just as bad as for a large amount, so you may as well steal a lot and hope to get away with it.

 

 

It’s like you double crossed a drug dealer and if they find out you will be shot in the head. You will do anything to save yourself. You will offer to take a lie detector test that you know you will fail if you can only live a few days longer.

 

 

You will read about how to cheat and if you still fail you will say that you were nervous or the test operator didn’t know what they were doing. Anything to live another day. Both you and your wife are desperate to not have you look at those texts. You don’t want to cross that line you drew in the sand.

 

 

I’m old enough tobe your father and I’m telling you that if you’re going to spend the rest of your life with that woman you need to know what she’s capable of and how good of a liar she is.

 

 

Have someone else read those FB messages and tell you if she met the OM and had sex, nothing more. I think you know that she did and it’s why you’re so afraid. You posted that you were coaxing her to tell you that she like you more then the OM. Well, you were coaxing her to assure you that you didn’t need to look at those texts.

 

 

If we can figure out a way to get them to me I will read them for you. Erase that line you drew in the sand. You don’t know any of us and there is no reason to be embarrassed. You can stay with her if you want.

 

 

My bet is that she had sex with him and at the end of the day you will wind up with her.

 

 

I think you have to:

1. Nail down that she had sex so that you know what you’re forgiving and get credit for it

2. File for divorce to let her know she can lose you. The way it is now she can do anything she wants and get away with it by crying. Why wouldn’t she do it again?

 

 

“He thinks he caught me deleting our chats,which I always do. I think he is bluffing.” Does this sound like she respects you?

Edited September 10, 2014 by Buckeye2

[Just a Guy]

Hi folks

 

It is such a pity that so much good advice has been given to John Bol which he has acknowledged positively and has seemingly shown that he is moving towards acting on it and then suddenly backtracking and NOT having the courage to take the crucial decision that will free him from his burden forever.

 

I guess that some guys come here to have people sympathize with them and their situation and finally that is all they want. They do not have the courage of conviction to do what needs to be done. All the good advice is just so much water on duck's back. Seems such a waste of the collective effort of so many good people to help someone. Just wish there was a marker which came with people who are incapable of taking tough decisions to improve their lives so that others would not waste their time on them. Maybe the only good that will come out of this is that it could prove to be a helpful template for some one else who is going to be in trouble in future who could use the nuggets of advice offered to Jon Bol. Best wishes to him!

[Buckeye2]

This is what your wife texted to the OM:

 

“He thinks he caught me deleting our chats, which I always do. I think he is bluffing.”

 

Your wife obviously thinks she’s cleverer than you. What do you think she’ll text to the OM if she’s able to con you into not reading those FB messages? She’ll brag to him that she can play you like a fiddle.

 

Your wife’s opinion of you matters if you plan on spending the rest of your life with her. You don’t want her to think that your are a fool. You want her to think that you’re someone not to be trifled with and she’ll not be given a third chance. If you don’t look at those messages you’ll be putting her on “double secret probation.”

 

Originally used in the 1978 American college classic film "Animal House," Dean Wormer puts the rowdy Delta Tau Chi fraternity on a "double secret probation," since the Delta House is already on probation. The term has since evolved to mean the act of being on probation while still partying on a regular basis.

 

She will do a better job of keeping her affairs secret and you will not want to check on her because of what you might find. If by some miracle you catch her again you’ll panic and have hot flashes. She’ll comfort you and assure you that nothing happened.

 

You’ll beg her to explain it away again because it feels so good to know that she loves you and is faithful. You might even be happy unless she finds someone else who's willing to pay her bills.

 

If you were my son I would slap you until you snapped out of it. If you didn’t I would have second thoughts about your mother’s faithfulness and DNA you.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Buckeye2

[oldshirt]

Thank you again to all who have responded. I really appreciate your advice. And not to abuse your generosity of time and advice … I think at this very juncture I need your advice the most!!

 

 

Why? You haven't been taking people's advice so far. What makes it different now?

 

 

1) I have located a means for retrieve most if not all of deleted messages including FaceBook.

 

 

 

Then you have no excuse for not using it.

 

 

 

2) I sat down my wife yesterday and asked her to tell me even the filthiest details. “I’d rather hear it from you first, to avoid the shock value”.

 

This goes against everything that people have been telling you. People have written volumes explaining why you should find the smoking gun yourself and not have it edited and filtered by her.

 

 

 

 

At this point you need to be shocked. You are deluding yourself and need something to shock you out of your own denials.

 

 

 

3) She did tell me a lot of things.

 

 

Which means she was lying and covering things up before. This is what people mean when they use the term "trickle truth."

 

 

 

 

So she does realize I am not bluffing. And I am not. The app for it costs 99 cents.

 

 

This is another self-deception on your part. She may not think you are "bluffing" per se, but she knows you will be passive and won't actually do anything about it. She knows this because that is what you have been consistently doing since day-one.

 

She has not suffered one single consequence from her actions, so her actions will continue.

 

4) In the end I decided not to see those images and texts.

 

 

Translation = ' I wussed out because seeing the truth with my own eyes would change my deeply held (though erroneous) view of her, our marriage and my current lifestyle and it may cause me to take an action that would disrupt my status quo.'

 

 

 

She warned me they would upset me.

 

 

You need to be upset. You are treating yourself like a horse that needs to be blindfolded when the barn is on fire so you don't get upset.

 

 

 

 

And of course she is right.

 

 

yes she is.

 

 

 

 

I feel like she has already told me everything.

 

 

and you've felt like that ten times now and each and every time you have been wrong.

 

 

 

 

So I decided not to look, and have chosen to believe her (she gave me a lot of very damaging info already).

 

You have chosen the path of self- delusion that everything is going to be OK as long as you don't rock the boat and upset anyone.

 

This is the "nice-guy" tactic of conflict resolution. Please read the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Robert Glover.

 

 

 

 

 

5) She insisted that the message would not reveal an actual contact (e.g., meeting details, etc).

 

Does that matter at this point? Just because people fck doesn't mean they have to write about it afterwards.

 

 

 

 

 

6) After believing her, I am afraid to look because, if we are going to move on, the images or her language, may visually scar me.

 

 

 

 

Let's rephrase that to what you really mean - "since I want to believe her, seeing their dialogue with my own eyes would contradict what I am trying to deceive myself into believing and would force me to deal with issues I don't want to mess with."

 

 

So I think the decision to see seem literally equals leaving her.

 

 

so you are trying to bend reality to force it to comply with your delusional thinking.

 

 

 

 

Because even if the texts etc all provide what she had told me, except graphically, then frankly I don’t have anything to gain.

 

except for knowing what is the reality.

 

 

 

 

 

7) Here is the filthy details she has given me already (is this not enough to know she is truthful). But first, what made me suspicious is that she wanted to be by my side to do so (I wanted to be alone to have opportunity to calm myself down first). I believe she is still gambling a little: “if the worst things I am thinking of are indeed there, only then I will switch into damage control. I’d rather wait and do that only when I have to.”

 

 

 

want some Crazy Fries with that?????

 

 

 

 

 

 

* She sexted a few time from our bedroom while I was at home but in a different room. Without our 6-month old baby in the room

 

 

 

Oh since the baby wasn't in the room, I guess it's ok.

 

 

* She told him that back in high school she had had the best se@@ of their lives.

 

 

The truth.

 

 

And she added that she didn’t mean it.

 

A lie to conform to your denials and self-deceptions.

 

* She sent him a picture of her va@@ina spread out

 

When women show men their vaginas, it's because they are offering them a place to put their penises.

 

 

" In nature when a female of any species exposes her genitalia to a male, it is to mate with him. There is no other time or situation that a female will do this"

 

- Dr Laura Schlesinger.

 

 

 

 

* She told him stuff like “I cannot wait to fu@@ck your brains out, and stuff like that

 

 

she declared her intentions.

 

 

* She made him eja*culate over the phone twice, and pretended to climax herself together with him

 

 

She didn't pretend. She just told you she didn't orgasm.

 

 

* She offered to suck his xxx dry.

 

another declaration of intent.

 

* They openly fantasized about meeting in person

 

Assuming they haven't actually got it on (which is a big stretch of the imagination) this is beyond fantasy. This is actually planning and plotting and taking the time and effort to cover their tracks and insuring that they get away with it.

 

You are the one that is fantasizing.

 

 

 

 

I know, humiliating.

 

 

Yeah and you just keep taking it. You are going to have a hell of a lot more coming your way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I also tell myself that this is fantasy,

 

 

Again, it's YOUR fantasy that they aren't chin-deep in an affair. It's their reality.

 

 

 

 

try to compare it to myself on an adult site if I were to chat with someone.

 

No, they are actually engaged in it. They are real people, that have a real past, a real connection, a real desire and a real plan of action.

 

This isn't some guy in his underwear sitting in his mom's basement on some kind of internet chatline. These are real people having a real affair.

 

 

Should I look at everything myself?

 

 

 

 

Ah gee I dunno. What have people been telling you for the last 65 pages??????????????????????????????

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why would she hide anything else, given the filthy stuff she has already admitted.

 

 

because she can. She's been doing it all along and it hasn't cost her a thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not believe I will find there an evidence of them doing it.

 

 

That's what you tell yourself to justify not looking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

She is EXTREMELY convincing that no meeting ever took place.

 

 

It's EXTREMELY easy to convince someone of something they already believe in and are willing to ignore the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe her.

 

 

You are desparately trying to hold on your own beliefs (as erroneous and misguided as they are)

 

 

She could come right out and say, "I fcked him into unconsciousness." and you will come back and say, "but I don't think he was really completely unconscious."

 

 

I believe this was a fantasy based on high school nostalgia.

 

 

 

 

No it's a reality based on some real feelings and had chemistry they had already developed.

 

 

 

 

Yes, she has humilated me, never to be forgotten. But I believe she has told me everything now.

 

just like she has the ten prior times she has lied to your face.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What should I do?

 

Are you serious????? you have the balls to ask that after people have been taking time and effort out of their day to offer you insights and advice from your opening post??

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please be brutally honest!!!

 

 

Everyone has been. You are just not accepting it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know I am being weak!

 

 

Well at least we got that out of the way. the question is are you going to lift a finger to try to not be a weak, manipulated cuckold?

 

 

 

 

Am I so eager to move on because the hurt of it all so bad that I am choosing fantasy over reality?

 

 

YES. In case you didn't read that right, let me say it again - YES!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The truth is, I had not been kind to her verbally in the past (mostly when I was sexually frustrated).

 

 

That is like the jews saying, "well we did kind of take over the banking system.." as they are being crammed into boxcars to head off to the ovens and gas chambers.

 

 

That does not relieve you from your responsibility to take care of yourself now. You need to forgive yourself for your past imperfections and protect your self interests now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even know, she could have helped so much with my prior insecurities about her not liking me enough, had she told me 10% of the things she had told him over such a long time!

 

 

Your insecurities are your issue. Your insecurities do not give you the right to let her completely abuse and walk all over you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please read the responses above.

Edited September 10, 2014 by oldshirt

[Buckeye2]

Last week, I saw on my wife’s cell phone a text message to another man: “I am sorry my batteries died.”

 

Her batteries died...probably in her vibrator because a phone has only one battery.

 

She made him eja*culate over the phone twice, and pretended to climax herself together with him

 

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner: Amaysngrace

 

If she was pretending why did she apologize for her batteries dying? It's because one time she couldn't finish with him for real due to her batteries dying. Pretending doesn't require batteries.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Buckeye2

[pteromom]

Interesting. I am facing the opposite problem. WW has specifically described me as "kind" but is leaving me for OM. For my WW it is probably more of a marital frustration/boredom issue. WW said she wants someone who fights back more, aka more conflict. WW is aggressive and I am accommodating/passive. Our lives are otherwise secure, so I don't think safety is any issue. Two ends of the spectrum, I guess.

 

I am not saying that my words apply to every situation. In OP's case, his wife had given him being "mean" as the reason for her declining drive. So I was talking to him.

 

There are many reasons someone may have an affair, and many reasons someone may be unhappy in a marriage. And sometimes, those reasons are internal and have little or nothing to do with their spouse.

 

I am sorry you are going through this.

[Buckeye2]

She made him eja*culate over the phone twice, and pretended to climax herself together with him

 

If she was pretending why did she apologize for her batteries dying? It's because one time she couldn't finish with him for real due to her batteries dying. Pretending doesn't require batteries.

 

Here is the filthy details she has given me already (is this not enough to know she is truthful).

 

NO. Because even after all the “filthy details” she still had to lie and say she didn't have an orgasm, that she was pretending.

[pteromom]

I just read through all the posts, and I don't know if divorce at THIS point is the best option for you.

 

You have to remember that a lot of these posters responding to you went through their own infidelities and reconciliations or divorces. They have strong biases - and anger - against infidelity.

 

But let's look at this another way.

 

You thought that your wife just wasn't that sexual. Now you've learned that inside there somewhere is the ability to be dirty. The thing is she was only able to open that side of herself up in a situation that didn't require true vulnerability. It's easy to say all those things if there is no risk involved. If you can just walk away at any time without putting yourself truly out there.

 

But in a marriage, your heart is on the line. If you open yourself up, you risk rejection, judgment, and changing all the existing patterns of the marriage.

 

I am not excusing her EA, or saying that she doesn't have a LOT of work to do in order to make up what she did to you.

 

But what IF...

 

- through counseling, she was able to explore why she did this, and gain some self-awareness and grow as a person?

- through counseling and honesty, she was able to open to you sexually, and you were able to have a better intimate relationship than ever?

- through counseling, you were able to learn what she needed from you and do YOUR part in making this marriage stronger?

- after the fallout, you had the marriage you always wanted?

 

Now, it may be that she is just a weaselly dishonest person who is a liar and manipulator and you could never trust her.

 

But from what you know of her, do you believe that is true? Do you see her lying to others (family, employers, friends)? Is she the kind of person who is always out to take things for herself without giving anything back? Is she sneaky? Does she seem to look at life as a competition and does whatever she can to WIN?

 

I think divorce is a possible option, but I also think you aren't at that point YET. You need to allow your wife the space to do the work to repair what she has done. See what happens.

 

You were asking whether you should sacrifice yourself for your children. And no, you shouldn't. But you SHOULD sacrifice your ego for the CHANCE to possibly give them a strong family with a mom and dad who live together and love each other.

 

There's no hurry to run away. If divorce ends up being the answer, it can still be the answer 6 months or a year from now.

 

Quit thinking about you vs. him. This isn't about him. This is about something lacking inside your wife. Something that possibly could be healed. When she was talking to him, he was just a convenient outlet for her inner thoughts. A fantasy inside her head, that just happened to have his face. He is NOTHING. Nothing. Completely inconsequential.

 

Focus on getting into counseling and see what happens next.

[pteromom]

Oh and... if a polygraph helps you at least know that you have the full story so that you can move forward, take her up on it.

[drifter777]

Oh and... if a polygraph helps you at least know that you have the full story so that you can move forward, take her up on it.

Yes - by all means do this. You will never have peace until you answer the questions that are eating at your soul.

 

Remember that polygraph questions must all be "yes or no" so think about what you want to ask and how to phrase it. And ask the same question in multiple ways so you don't end up with a Bill Clinton like answer of "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is." Ask her straight up if she had sex with him. If she says "no" and the poly says she isn't lying then it's obvious she doesn't consider phone sex & sexting as "sex". Ask if she had intercourse with him, if she had oral with him, has she ever touched his penis - things like that. If she's being truthful then you will know exactly what and what she didn't do with him.

[Friskyone4u]

John Boing you don't see all those texts and e mail s and if you do not give her a polygraph you will never get over this and you will be wondering for years if you ever got the truth

You are backtracking and she has told you enough to try to appease you and scare to into not wanting to see.

[JohnBol]

Thank you all Again! I deserve the anger. And buckeye2, especially from you. I had meant to write you and thank you for offering something very touching to me ... to look at the pictures and tell me what they revealed, to spare me the hurt of looking at them. Thank you! For a stranger to offer that to me ... Thank you!

 

And thank you to all for the tough love! It was hard to read what you wrote. Because you were right, absolutely right. I am being weak. No, not on purpose to not appreciate your good advice. Frankly, if not for your advice, I would have never found as much as I did.

 

About the Facebook app ... It didn't work. It was all a scam app. It retrieved only the archived messages, and not the deleted ones (apparently there is a difference). But ... I didn't let her know this. I bluffed. I told her it worked. I told her I was going to take my laptop to a library and look at it there, so that I would control my anger. I don't want to get into details, but trust me when I say that I had successfully convinced that I could see it. For example, I showed her one penis picture I got offline, and she was distraught when she saw a printout, crying, asking why you are torturing yourself. She didn't recognize that it was not his. Anyways, she gave me a few other details, not significant, but the same type of filthy stuff. So I left to the library. A while later, i send her a message: "I know everything! You did do it." She called me distraught, crying on the phone voice mail. I didn't pick up the phone, She called 11 times and 10 texts. All saying, why would you say that? I never did that. Swearing to our children's lives, etc, that she didn't know what it could possibly be because she said she never did it.

 

To take a step back a minute ... A week ago, I had contacted the OM's wife via email, telling her everything I knew, plus the bluff that I knew they had sex on his business trip. A few days after that, I contacted him from my wife's phone, pretending to me her, and after a couple of innocent lines, I said "I am sorry I had to tell everything to him, and he has contacted your wife." To my surprise, he seemed to buy into it. So he told her/me that it was ok, but why the heck did you tell him that we slept together on my trip. I wasn't able to contain my anger that he'd dare to talk to her still (I had sent him messages and a voicemail from my own phone, to which he didn't respond at all). Anyways, i cussed him and told him off. No response after he realized it was me. Still, it is possible that he was clever (after all he pulled that off for a long time). It is possible that he knew from the get-go it was me (my wife had known nothing about it though), and he was just trying to corroborate her story.

 

Back to my ungrateful wayward wife ... I didn't return her messages or calls, except for one "why are you still lying to me." She kept insisting that she had not done it.

 

Frankly, it does not really matter whether they did it or not. I know (per her confession) that she would sit at home (while I provided her with the ability not to work), and send him such messages as "I have been thinking about you." "I want to do this or that with you." And she didn't deny that I "knew" his di*ck was bigger than mine (I am sure it was; not because I am small, but just average, but because she would have denied that ... yes, I am VERY pathetic; she has done that to me, or maybe she did that to me BECAUSE she had always known I was pathetic).

 

What hurt me the most (the latest wave) was that she had NEVER ever in our marriage ever talked dirty to me like that. It was very hurtful to see a side of your wife that you never knew was there. To know now that you had never been capable of bringing out that side of her in the last 15 years of your marriage.

 

So, back to the "library" ... While I was leaving her hanging and ignoring her calls, I was actually then at a lawyer's office, talking about my options. Frankly, I later that day chickened out. But first, after the meeting, I called her back and told her that I knew she did do it, and I was at the lawyer's office. She still denied everything! Crying, begging for forgiveness for the things she had done.

 

So I came home. She was begging me to go counseling, and trashing herself for what she has done. By then, I had already outed her to her immediate family (telling them all the gory details, including to her dad, who is a preacher). At this time, I don't think she had anything to lose by stopping denying that she did it in person. She didn't think I was bluffing. She did believe I had seen something. When I came home and showed the lawyer's card and shared the details, she still kept saying, I didn't do it!

 

Anyways, after that, I became convinced that she didn't do it. I dont have any way knowing, and if she did all this, I am sure she can ace the poly as well.

 

Still though, of course, what she has done was still bad enough. I'd divorce her still, but the details from the lawyer were scary ... I simply cannot afford it without going bankrupt. Don't get me wrong. If there was no way out, I'd find a way to go thru.

 

But then ... and this is where the commenter PTEROMOM and I somewhat agree ... What if she is right, right? What if this was indeed a sexual fantasy and she never crossed the line. The fact that she stopped (if she did) should count for something too, right? And I know she has been calling dozens of counselors to try to get us in ASAP. She keeps saying we can do better, etc. And she truly seems to realize how much she hurt me. I Will never forgive or forget what she did to me. But I also need to think rationally, like PTEROMOM says ... what is the rush? Why not give counseling a chance? I am first to admit that I had not been a perfect or good husband, calling her lazy in the past, not listening to her, etc ... and more. Don't my two daughters deserve at least that from me? Yes, pride is very important. But why cannot I take one for the team, even if my wife does not deserve it ... Swallow my pride for a bit longer. And if that does not work, then I can still divorce, right. I have already have the lawyer thing started.

 

And, you may hate me for this, and this does not mean I don't appreciate all the GREAT (frankly some of the best I have ever gotten from ANYBODY) advice you have given me. I don't want to single anyone out, But there are a half-a-dozen posters here that are amazingly insightful. And kind enough to share it with strangers. I appreciate it. I know you might think I have used you ungratefully. Such is not the case. My wife has done truly horrible things, and you are right to detest me for giving someone like that another chance. And you are right. I am weak. So why don't I just wait a little longer. I know you want to slap me (BuckeyEye2, strangely when you said that I felt like almost tearing up), because a part of me agrees with you. I am so conflicted. Which is why I don't want to make a rash decision. But I also must admit the possibility that this guy fro her past was just a nostalgic escape for a bored housewife going thru midlife crisis, phone, sexting, but never crossing the line. I know, I know she crossed the line when she let him call our house over 50 times, and sexting in our bedroom with me in the house. Do I hate her for doing that! Of course! But there are other things I hate even more ... putting my daughters through a divorce without trying counseling first.

 

So we have an appointment tomorrow with one. My wife still believes that I think she had done it, but she continues to say she is clueless. I know, I know ... she must also think this: if he really had anything (a text or message) he would have long shown it to me. She might think: I will get to that point when I am staring at an actual proof. Unfortunately, I do not have such a proof. And a polygraph won't do it either. But I just realized ... I must try that too, just as I should try that too. It costs $600. I think it is worth it ... at least knowing that I had tried that. You are right. I will always regret not doing that and not knowing for sure. So onto counseling and polygraph.

 

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR ADVICE AND TIME!!!

[JohnBol]

During the 8 months my wife and I tried to reconcile, I kept discovering more and more of the truth. I can't count the number of times she said (with tears in her eyes) that I knew everything there was to know and that she'd never lie to me again. Discovering 13 hotel stays lead her to say that there were like 30. The truth ended up being more like 60-70. She also insisted that the OM had never been to my home. 8 months in, I found this:

 

Hot Wife Blog - hotwife and cuckold husband fetish discussion

 

BetrayedH, I am VERY sorry you went through this! The gory details do not matter of course when I read the blog. It is the betrayal part that hurts one. Are you still with her? I know I am in no better position.

[BetrayedH]

BetrayedH, I am VERY sorry you went through this! The gory details do not matter of course when I read the blog. It is the betrayal part that hurts one. Are you still with her? I know I am in no better position.

 

No, we are no longer together. After reading the blog, I flipped out (much more to that story, for another time perhaps) and she then filed for divorce (with which I did not disagree).

 

As for your decision to "try," I can wholeheartedly relate. Frankly, I don't regret that I made the attempt to reconcile either. Like you, I had children in the mix. And in the grand scheme of things, a few months of continuing to invest in my marriage was relatively inconsequential considering that I'd already spent 18 years with her. I made a ton of mistakes, some of which I greatly regret, but trying to reconcile isn't one of them.

 

The polygraph thing is a sketchy thing. I have researched the subject quite a bit (and wavered on my support of them) but at the end of it all, the fact is that they are NOT scientifically reliable. You won't be able to trust the results whether they convict or exonerate her. That said, the value that they many times bring is the "parking lot confession" that occurs because the wayward has denied and bluffed to the point of no return, all the time thinking that they'd somehow get out of the poly or beat it or something. Faced with the reality of taking it, the "truth" comes out (or perhaps yet another round of TT in hopes that you won't make them take it). Even if you get another confession, conventional wisdom says to follow thru with the poly anyway. I never asked my wife for one; perhaps I should have.

 

If you decide to try to reconcile, your wife's "true remorse" should be evidenced by actions. Read that thread for waywards at the top of this forum if you haven't already. Voluntary transparency and supporting your desire to "trust but verify" should be her new mantra in life. Her willingness to do the poly (evidenced by actually doing it) may help your confidence level. As I've said before, when you investigate and find nothing, you both win.

 

When all this hypervigilance stops is a great source of debate. It can become an unhealthy obsession. For me, it eventually revealed that my wife was still a liar. Some say that the need for things like polys indicates that the relationship is dead and should be buried. It's a highly personal decision. I tend to think that you also have the right not to decide for as long as you like and if your wife doesn't like your inability to "get over it" then she knows where the door is. I'd otherwise caution you not to let "not deciding" turn into a decision to stay by default. Try to avoid analysis paralysis. If you eventually decide to reconcile, it'll be the hardest thing that either of you have ever done and you'll (eventually) need to be in with both feet.

 

Some would say that filing for divorce should happen regardless because of the statement it makes. Then you can take your time to see if she's truly remorseful even in the face of divorce. Some even insist upon the divorce and then if the wayward is still trying to reconcile after the divorce is final, you know it's not in order to do damage control. One couple here recently reunited after having divorced and they may serve as a decent example of that philosophy.

 

What a mess, huh?

 

Again, it's very personal. Don't let anyone tell you what you must do. With this place, take what works for you and leave the rest. If I had any recommendation, it's probably to try to make sure you don't make decisions from a place of fear and try to make sure your wife isn't either.

[pteromom]

It was very hurtful to see a side of your wife that you never knew was there. To know now that you had never been capable of bringing out that side of her in the last 15 years of your marriage.

 

It isn't your responsibility to bring that out. You have heard of the whole "madonna/whore" thing right? Where guys see women as one or the other? Well, there's a female side to that too. From an early age, we are taught about "good girls" vs. "sluts" and many of us go into marriage thinking we need to be a certain way and not show certain parts of ourselves.

 

I guarantee that whatever reasons your wife had for her EA, there is a lot of psychological mess involved on her side, which a good counselor will help her unravel. I would actually suggest that once she has a list of potential counselors, you call them yourself and just have a short conversation with each of them, so that you can find one that you connect to well.

 

The last thing you want is a bad counselor who is going to take a side and make someone a villain. You want someone who is unbiased and wanting to help both of you.

 

Crying, begging for forgiveness for the things she had done.

 

I know you are (rightfully) angry for what she did. But I am cringing reading about the number of times you accuse her and she cries and begs. And you telling her family and calling the guy, etc. You have to get out of this mindset of making her PAY for what she did, and instead work on healing yourself - and see if it is possible to heal your marriage.

 

I dont have any way knowing, and if she did all this, I am sure she can ace the poly as well.

 

Not true. A good polygrapher will see through any acting on her part. They test true sociopaths and criminals - your wife can't trick them. Think of yes/no questions you want to ask about things she did, and get it scheduled.

 

Still though, of course, what she has done was still bad enough. I'd divorce her still, but the details from the lawyer were scary ... I simply cannot afford it without going bankrupt.

 

If divorce ends up being the result, don't let this fear stop you. You can find a way if it becomes necessary.

 

My wife still believes that I think she had done it, but she continues to say she is clueless.

 

In order to have a chance to heal, you need to quit playing games and be COMPLETELY honest. No more lying or letting her think you know more than you know. No more power plays. Just raw honesty. You have nothing to lose by being honest.

[oldshirt]

Contacting the OM from her phone last week was a pretty bold move. Why no mention of it here until now??? That seems like something that would have been mentioned immediately. Seems very strange that it is just coming to light now.