Hardest Post ever

[Toodamnpragmatic]

TDP, if a close friend came to you privately, without the bravado that comes with the group dynamic, and confided that he was having trouble in his marriage and needed advice, how would you respond? Would you lend an ear?

 

I know that men don't typically talk about sex with their wives, but in the case of a close friend and a true need to talk, why not?

 

And I know it is possible, because one or two friends HAVE mentioned problems to my h over the years. That's what friends are for.

 

It's one thing to talk about issues within one's marriage when it comes to money, disagreements, communication, parenting, arguments...... Once it enters the bedroom (and goes beyond HD/LD) sorry I want no part of it...... I'll talk and happily give my $.02 on anything else and probably have.

 

The other H's talk about anything outside "lack of sex"?

 

On top of it my friends know my spouse and think highly of her. I don't want them to think otherwise.

[angie2443]

I agree.

 

But if the reason he ended up forging an inappropriate and secret friendship with a woman online was an unmet need to discuss marriage problems, confiding in a trusted friend who cares about your marriage is a much better option. Our friends have only reached out when they really needed some help (not a habit of venting).

 

Of course, a counselor is ideal. But falling into an ea because tàlking to a friend is inappropriate is absurd to me. Lesser of evils!

 

I get the sense that you don't have much experience with romantic relationships, except for your marriage. Few people want their spouse talking about one of the most intimate parts of their relationship with another person. It rarely solves anything and builds an allience between the gossiping spouse (just how I see it) and the other person, especially if that other person shares even a small attraction to their married confidant.

 

If you read OPs many threads, it might become very clear why he's having problems with his wife and why he made friends with another female. I'm not saying this to nock the OP. It does no good to coddle him when it is very likely that his attitude towards relationships is most likely a huge factor in creating his problems with his wife.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I get the sense that you don't have much experience with romantic relationships, except for your marriage. Few people want their spouse talking about one of the most intimate parts of their relationship with another person. It rarely solves anything and builds an allience between the gossiping spouse (just how I see it) and the other person, especially if that other person shares even a small attraction to their married confidant.

 

If you read OPs many threads, it might become very clear why he's having problems with his wife and why he made friends with another female. I'm not saying this to nock the OP. It does no good to coddle him when it is very likely that his attitude towards relationships is most likely a huge factor in creating his problems with his wife.

 

How so? I do not need to be coddled. I think most of my threads were to better understand how women feel about sex..... And hopefully to better understand my spouse through it.

[MuddyFootprints]

Yes, it seems he does.

 

I noted his elated reaction to the expression of my staunch position, though.

[angie2443]

How so? I do not need to be coddled. I think most of my threads were to better understand how women feel about sex..... And hopefully to better understand my spouse through it.

 

If you look at your thread on the reasons men resent women (or husbands resent wives?), those reasons, like making decisions without asking the other partner, are things that men do just as much as women. Someone pointed that out, and you disagreed. You seem to see men and women in a flat, one sided way. I realize that there are some differances, but if that's the only lense you see men and women through, I don't see how it's possible to truely relate to your partner. It also seems to me that you view relationships as some compitition. If you don't get what you want, you seem to think that the only way partners handle it is to get back at each other. If you approach relationships with a win/loose attitude, then how can you have a happy marriage? Just my observation.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

If you look at your thread on the reasons men resent women (or husbands resent wives?), those reasons, like making decisions without asking the other partner, are things that men do just as much as women. Someone pointed that out, and you disagreed. You seem to see men and women in a flat, one sided way. I realize that there are some differances, but if that's the only lense you see men and women through, I don't see how it's possible to truely relate to your partner. It also seems to me that you view relationships as some compitition. If you don't get what you want, you seem to think that the only way partners handle it is to get back at each other. If you approach relationships with a win/loose attitude, then how can you have a happy marriage? Just my observation.

 

This was a thread from 2013. It was from an article that was on the front age of Yahoo and I said that I saw 5 of those in my marriage, which I thought was pretty good. I didn't say which 5 either. Today I clarified, which I thought were more gender specific and if you want to debate that on the thread please do.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Toodamnpragmatic

[angie2443]

This was a thread from 2013. It was from an article that was on the front age of Yahoo and I said that I saw 5 of those in my marriage, which I thought was pretty good. I didn't say which 5 either. Today I clarified, which I thought were more gender specific and if you want to debate that on the thread please do.

 

You posted today that you see these traits (reasons meantioned in the article) as overwhelmingly female traits. I'm not trying to argue or prove a point just to prove a point. I'm simply pointing out that if you see the needs of men and women always competing with each other, and you keep generalizing women in such a negative way, I don't see how your relationship can ever be truely happy and healthy.

[jnel921]

I also will say it was safe talking/writing to someone 3000 miles away and getting insight into the opposite sex, which I never had.

 

I disagree, its not safe. Before my H's A I found a PM to a woman on FB that lived 90 miles away. That didn't make things better. It was the beginning of his selfish desire to know someone else.

 

This insight you suggest is pure bs. If my H needed any "insight" the woman he could have spoken to or observed was me. He didn't need to b**** and moan to some other woman about me and our marriage. She didn't even know me from her own butt****. But I am sure he like hearing from her how he was such a great guy and how I didn't deserve him. blah blah blah. I am sure you may agree that it was artsy of my H to send a pic of his hard c*** to this woman too. After all if she were closer...look at what she can have. So ridiculous.

 

My H is lucky I agreed to stay with him. Knowing that he tried to dip his toes into the water then later diving in was devastating. Since you know all of this already as you are an established member as I am. Then you should already know the one thing that should matter at weak moments like those.

 

That love for your WIFE should have brought you back to reality...

 

BTW, My husband is quite awake.

Edited September 8, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[merrmeade]

I still don't understand what needs to be clarified here in terms of defining the problem or why there is anything to have an opinion about. What does it matter what we think about how bad or not bad it was? Isn't the main measure (90% ) how it affected his wife? He told us it was heartbreaking for her. She felt a lot of pain. I don't see the relevance of another criterion. And I really do not understand criticizing her reaction.

 

It seems to me the title "Hardest Post Ever" implies that what makes it hard is 'confessing' to the community. These are people he knows who have shared a mutual respect and understanding. I felt like with a title like that he was embarrassed but needed to come public with it. I guess the thread is for him to sort through the issues and come to terms within himself about lines and boundaries, when and if they were crossed. The logic isn't clear sometimes and the emphasis seems a little too open to interpretation at times (degree or quantity of questionable actions, words, feelings). One wonders why? Maybe in IC....

Edited September 8, 2014 by merrmeade

[Toodamnpragmatic]

New IC today..... Fingers crossed.

 

I came here and came clean. Why, not 100% sure, but this is a community I have been part of for 5+ years.

 

But it is this community that led me down the path (again no excuses). LS made me better understand my feelings, the importance I placed on many things (maybe misplaced at times) and certainly appreciation for what I had.

 

I never hid the sites I read and told her all about them, but she finds them silly and that I am a voyeur reading them (amongst other things).

 

So today she said what did I think she'd say if I mentioned "my friend" 3.5 years ago once I started communicating with her? She would have told me to stop. Interesting response and probably due to her opinion of LS and the people on the site. So basically she told me having conversations with a female I met on this site is forbidden (not asking about what I talked about, just that I was talking).

 

She is not a jealous person and has male friends she talks to and has lunches with, and I'm fine. But it is different for me, because I am more open and talked to someone 3000 miles away.

 

Again not making any excuses, just thought it was curious.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Toodamnpragmatic

[xxoo]

So today she said what did I think she'd say if I mentioned "my friend" 3.5 years ago once I started communicating with her? She would have told me to stop. Interesting response and probably due to her opinion of LS and the people on the site. So basically she told me having conversations with a female I met on this site is forbidden (not asking about what I talked about, just that I was talking).

 

She is not a jealous person and has male friends she talks to and has lunches with, and I'm fine. But it is different for me, because I am more open and talked to someone 3000 miles away.

 

Again not making any excuses, just thought it was curious.

 

It's difficult to understand what you are saying here, especially with the benefit of hindsight.

 

Your relationship did, in fact, turn inappropriate, as opposed to hers (presumably). So, if she recognized something "off" about it at the beginning and told you to end it, she would have been right!

 

And it is "off" to forge a friendship with a person of the opposite sex that you met on a relationship site where you complain about your relationship. It isn't qualitatively the same as forging friendships in RL situations.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

It's difficult to understand what you are saying here, especially with the benefit of hindsight.

 

Your relationship did, in fact, turn inappropriate, as opposed to hers (presumably). So, if she recognized something "off" about it at the beginning and told you to end it, she would have been right!

 

And it is "off" to forge a friendship with a person of the opposite sex that you met on a relationship site where you complain about your relationship. It isn't qualitatively the same as forging friendships in RL situations.

 

Get it, but still interesting that it is LS that scares her. I'm honest and open and will talk. But again NO EXCUSES

[Sub]

Get it, but still interesting that it is LS that scares her. I'm honest and open and will talk. But again NO EXCUSES

 

Not really that interesting, if she's aware of the various types of people that populate the site. As xxoo said, it's a relationship site. You came here for a specific purpose. And let's be honest. Whatever reservations she would have had about it did come to fruition. You could argue that she was right to be scared, based on what happened.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Not really that interesting, if she's aware of the various types of people that populate the site. As xxoo said, it's a relationship site. You came here for a specific purpose. And let's be honest. Whatever reservations she would have had about it did come to fruition. You could argue that she was right to be scared, based on what happened.

 

Then why was she not scared or really want to do something knowing why I was here and what I wrote about. Frankly she buried her head in the sand and never really wanted to talk about it or know how bothered I was.

 

Again to reiterate NO EXCUSES

[Sub]

Then why was she not scared or really want to do something knowing why I was here and what I wrote about. Frankly she buried her head in the sand and never really wanted to talk about it or know how bothered I was.

You could view it that way, yes. But you could also say that maybe she did trust you enough to not start a relationship of any sort with someone from the site. It's two separate issues, IMO. She may have buried her head in the sand regarding your initial reasons for posting. The offshoot EA, not so much.

 

You started a thread titled "Hardest post ever", detailing a R you had with someone from this site, where you take responsibility for how poorly you handled it and how it's affecting your M. Does it honestly strike you as odd that your W would say she was "scared" after all of this? I would equate it to rear-ending someone with your car, then wondering after the fact why someone would be reluctant to let you drive.

 

Again to reiterate NO EXCUSES

At this point, I think we understand that you're not making excuses. It's one of those things where, the more you say it, the more it tends to lose its' meaning.

[SummerDreams]

You started a thread titled "Hardest post ever", detailing a R you had with someone from this site, where you take responsibility for how poorly you handled it and how it's affecting your M. Does it honestly strike you as odd that your W would say she was "scared" after all of this? I would equate it to rear-ending someone with your car, then wondering after the fact why someone would be reluctant to let you drive.

 

I don't agree. If we people could judge everything we do by the result, we would never make any mistakes. We take the risk to do things and make decisions in life cause only this way will we succeed, even though there is a small or big possibility we fail. It's easy to say after an event or a decision shows its result "how was I so stupid to do that?" but the truth is, we can't know the result from the beginning. If his wife would forbid him to talk to someone based on the fact he met her in a relationship site, without discussing the need he has or trying to understand why he has this need, this would show me that this woman has trust issues with her husband. The result (that he created an EA with this woman) does not justify her lack of trust. If you've married a guy, you should have reached a high level of trust by now. If you haven't, then you have a bigger problem in your marriage than an EA of your husband.

 

I"m trying to think what I would do if my bf would tell me that he was talking with a woman on a relationship themed site. I am sure that I'd ask him if he has the need to talk about our marriage problems with a stranger and why he doesn't talk about them with me instead. I'd try to understand his needs. If he insisted and convinced me that he wants to do this and promise me this wouldn't evolve in something else, I'd trust him and let him make this decision, but I'd keep my mind on this matter.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I'm trying to be very careful in explaining that I understand my actions and my responses are separate and addressing other issues and questions.

 

BTW Very good IC and some interesting things to think about. A very good counselor I think (spouse liked her too). Was concerned that I am not confrontational and understand spouse's feelings.

[Stellar Wench]

You are aggravating the problem by continuing to post here. These are things you should be discussing with your wife and counsellor, not with those from the scene of the crime, so to speak. It's the cyber equivalent to having the OW in the room.

[Bootsie]

You are aggravating the problem by continuing to post here. These are things you should be discussing with your wife and counsellor, not with those from the scene of the crime, so to speak. It's the cyber equivalent to having the OW in the room.

 

 

I've been wondering about this too. Isn't the "OW/penpal" also a regular from LS? Does your BW know that you're still posting here, and do you both know if the OW/penpal may be reading or even responding?

[Try]

Frankly though I told her if she talked to a male friend about me, I'd be okay, because I do trust her (she goes on trips with her single friend and never thought twice).

Your wife goes on trips with her single male friend and your are OK with that? How can she be mad at a penpal when she is going on trips with single guys? You both need to discuss boundaries. These boundaries need to apply to both parties in a fair way.

[JamesM]

Different perspective after almost nine years.....

 

The friendship is only a problem because the wife calls it a problem for whatever reason IMO. If she had no problem with it and appreciated the female perspective he was getting, then he never would have posted it. Y'all can analyze it backwards and forwards, but the fact remains: she calls it a problem, it is a problem. You can armchair QB what pics he sent or what kind of flirting he did, but IMO your opinions are that. You don't know what the pics were or what words were used.

 

My wife asked me once in the past if I would have a problem with her discussing our issues with another male. I said no, and still do not. She doesn't even need to tell me that she got another perspective. I trust that she will keep the friendship(s) just that and no more. I have done the same but only online. Personally, I am not sure who or how I could share it with friends. And here on LS I have posted it in threads many times. Some of you posting on this very thread have helped me in PMs, too. The important thing IMO and I think in hers is....do the "friends" bring you closer to your spouses or farther away? Does the feedback on LS or from the members heal your marriage or make it seem worse? That is the key.

 

IMO sharing info about our marriages with someone who can help and does so is safer online than in real life. And having a place such as LS for venting and feedback is great. Developing friends here who can help or who can be helped is also good.

 

The problem here is that TDP's wife feels it has not helped the marriage. TDP also realizes that it has hurt more than helped. I applaud you, TDP, for posting this thread although I am confused as to why when you are dealing with it very well in real life.

 

Not to diminish or excuse (as TDP said) but giving another perspective.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

A cathartic experience??? A public apology???? Actually what was probably lost in the OP was that I really needed my friends' insight and support and noted how different it is from the judgment on LS by many.

 

When I was really down and scared about what happened, my spouse livid and 100% support from those she told, I came clean to my close friends (all over 30+ years and professionals) and they were the one's who gave me courage and a different perspective.

 

I understood what I did and things are going pretty well (though don't want to jinx it).

 

If the mods want to close this, I'm fine (heck maybe even delete the thread).