Hardest Post ever

[HermioneG]

I'm not sure why it's so important for you to declare "not an EA". Based on your post:

 

- Shared inappropriate items such as suggestive pictures

- Told her private info about your feelings and marriage

- Hid it from your wife for an extended period of time

 

Isn't that an emotional affair ? And isn't owning up to one a step towards recovery? Not sure what you're protecting here...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yes to this post, in every way.

[whichwayisup]

I'm thinking that if you were getting what you needed in your marriage... this never would have happened.

 

Rather than allow her to blameshift all of this onto you... how about you take this opportunity to ask your wife to make some serious changes?

 

This isn't his wife's fault. This is on him and he chose to allow himself to get close to another woman and bond with her. He did say he has spoken to his wife about his problems and whatever else. He just started investing and nurturing a friendship, albeit not on purpose or with intent to have an appropriate closeness with this woman.

[HermioneG]

I'm thinking that if you were getting what you needed in your marriage... this never would have happened.

 

Rather than allow her to blameshift all of this onto you... how about you take this opportunity to ask your wife to make some serious changes?

 

Why is his bad choice his wife's responsibility? Why does she need to make "serious changes" because he has bad boundaries? Huh? It's akin to asking a stabbing victim to move because they got in the way of a knife while the attacker was swinging it.

[SawtoothMars]

This isn't his wife's fault. This is on him and he chose to allow himself to get close to another woman and bond with her. He did say he has spoken to his wife about his problems and whatever else. He just started investing and nurturing a friendship, albeit not on purpose or with intent to have an appropriate closeness with this woman.

 

If you deny a man food, do you imprison him for life if he steals a loaf of bread? I think most people disagree with you Inspector Javert.

 

We do own our actions, but that does not mean they occur in a vacuum. You must consider that which comes before.

 

Why is his bad choice his wife's responsibility? Why does she need to make "serious changes" because he has bad boundaries? Huh? It's akin to asking a stabbing victim to move because they got in the way of a knife while the attacker was swinging it.

 

The only way your analogy fits the situation is if she puts the knife in his hand and then jumps on it.

 

IF you starve your spouse of love and affection... then you must take responsibility for the results.

[HermioneG]

If you deny a man food, do you imprison him for life if he steals a loaf of bread? I think most people disagree with you Inspector Javert.

 

We do own our actions, but that does not mean they occur in a vacuum. You must consider that which comes before.

 

 

 

The only way your analogy fits the situation is if she puts the knife in his hand and then jumps on it.

 

IF you starve your spouse of love and affection... then you must take responsibility for the results.

 

Nope.

 

Affairs are about what is wrong with the cheater. Anything else is an attempt to blame shift. There are other choices to be made. If his wife won't sleep with him, and won't work to find out why? Then he can divorce her. Leave the relationship.

 

Affairs are a personal problem, not a marital one. Sending sexy pics to not your spouse? Never fixed what is "wrong" with a marriage, nor is a particularly spectacular demonstration of logical thinking.

 

Cheaters cheat because of their issues. If his marriage was truly "not meeting his needs" ( and that term makes me gag, it's so self indulgent)- then there were many other choices that he could have made where he maintained his dignity.

 

It's wayward thinking and the odd idea that happiness comes from outside of ourselves and that others are here to serve us that causes the kind of thinking you've displayed in these posts.

 

Yuck. I'd run a mile away from a partner who thought that way.

Edited September 3, 2014 by HermioneG

[Toodamnpragmatic]

to some could be considered cheating. Most people are here for a reason and many are because they are unhappy with the state of their partnerships/marriages. Anytime we share what is private between us and our spouses on a public forum to some could be considered "cheating"...... 90% of what I did was share/vent my feelings with one person and not 1,000's here on LS and it was wrong.

 

Go through my 2000+ posts and while I intimated much, I revealed very little specifics (this being the exception). I shared my thoughts, concerns and some frustration, asked many questions and hypotheticals, but kept pretty tight lipped I think. Heck my spouse knew I was here, yet never asked details of what I wrote, because she didn't want to know and delve into it.....

Edited September 4, 2014 by Toodamnpragmatic

[xxoo]

to some could be considered cheating. Most people are here for a reason and many are because they are unhappy with the state of their partnerships/marriages. Anytime we share what is private between us and our spouses on a public forum to some could be considered "cheating"...... 90% of what I did was share/vent my feelings with one person and not 1,000's here on LS and it was wrong.

 

I agree that posting personal details, or complaining publicly about a spouse, can be a major betrayal, and often it. We see that happen here, when a spouse finds an account and is hurt.

 

But it's probably the other 10% of what you did that really hurt your wife. Isn't that the part to focus on?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I agree that posting personal details, or complaining publicly about a spouse, can be a major betrayal, and often it. We see that happen here, when a spouse finds an account and is hurt.

 

But it's probably the other 10% of what you did that really hurt your wife. Isn't that the part to focus on?

 

I think it is all 100% & that it was a woman. The 10% was probably more like 1-3% max, however again that doesn't matter......

[LuckyLady13]

...and talk "If we lived closer".

 

The language of someone who wants to have a physical affair.

 

I had a "friend" like this and ditched him when I told him to stop talking about us being closer, stop flirting with me and he didn't listen.

 

I don't understand what's going on with you though. You came here, posted originally as if you did something wrong (which you did because faithful spouses don't flirt and talk to "friends" the way you have) but ever since have backpeddled like crazy! What's the point of your thread? Are you trying to make yourself feel okay with what you did because that is all I keep seeing you do. I would think that someone would come to a relationship forum like LS to work on problems in their relationship or marriage (or even friendships) but of course the only part anybody at LS can help you work on is YOU.

 

I have strict boundaries with my male friends and have had friendships lasting over 20 years and never ever do we flirt, send suggestive/sexy pictures to each other EVER. And I'm not even married! My friends have too much respect for me as a friend to flirt with me or suggest anything at all about us having sex, even "playfully". And I respect them so much for never crossing that line. I always look up to these guys with so much more respect than I have for most people I meet because they have impulse control.

 

So, why did you post about this originally? What was the purpose?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

A little cautionary tale and to tell a story. I'm trying not to backpedal and to take ownership over what happened.

 

I have reviewed all my posts here and I have not backpeddled. I have told my story and taken responsibility. Of course though I will defend myself too when needed. Sorry I will not be a sniveling wimp.

 

What I also wanted to say was that after a few very bad days and being scared to come clean, I am now open and trying to explain all.

 

What was a turning point too was how my friends reacted (and they are all professional, intelligent people), that I actually started feeling better about myself and realizing that I had a lot of work to do, have a marriage worth fighting for and obviously as good as our relationship was, communication was weak. My friends made me realize that I'd be okay and both of us have to work to make this better (and yes I have to do the majority of the heavy lifting).

 

Of course I understand here @ LS I will have a lot of negative reactions and do understand it. People have taken those "If we lived closer" and an admitted picture (and certainly less then 3 in total over 5 years) and repeat it over and over. That's the price of being honest.

 

I crossed boundaries I shouldn't have, all the while knowing I was 3000 miles away and anything was just talk (and yep some ego boosting). Yes, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG......

 

I get it No Excuses.... Telling my story and of course there are times I will defend myself and how I portrayed it.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Toodamnpragmatic

[gettingstronger]

Your story highlights the vulnerabilities many of us have- some of us act on them, some of us don't. I think its a positive that you saw where you were heading, didn't like it and did something about it.

 

I do wonder if the other side of the story will post on the OW forum the loss of an EA. I wonder what her side is and how invested she was in this.

 

Glad you are feeling better about yourself and your choices-

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Your story highlights the vulnerabilities many of us have- some of us act on them, some of us don't. I think its a positive that you saw where you were heading, didn't like it and did something about it.

 

I do wonder if the other side of the story will post on the OW forum the loss of an EA. I wonder what her side is and how invested she was in this.

 

Glad you are feeling better about yourself and your choices-

 

I promise you she will not be posting. I lost a "penpal" (what a silly word) and someone I was fond of and we shared our lives. Again before I get jumped on, I crossed a line, but it was not by my definition an EA. What I did was share too much and hide it.

 

Again I'd say what some people post here is way too detailed and intimate and cross the exact same lines I did, however read by 1000's of people.

 

BTW why do you think I'm on LS in any case????

 

Again not deflecting or minimizing.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Toodamnpragmatic

[xxoo]

If I were your wife, I'd probably believe that you got a rush from communicating with this woman, of the sort that a person would have when they get special attention from someone they are attracted to.

 

No?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

If I were your wife, I'd probably believe that you got a rush from communicating with this woman, of the sort that a person would have when they get special attention from someone they are attracted to.

 

No?

 

I'd much rather get that rush from my spouse....... But that's what we read over and over here don't we?

 

My wife hears that from me everyday and she knows it.

[xxoo]

I'd much rather get that rush from my spouse....... But that's what we read over and over here don't we?

 

My wife hears that from me everyday and she knows it.

 

Is it fair to expect that rush after many years of marriage? I think of that as "new relationship" territory.

 

I'd be crushed if my H indulged in that rush with another woman

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Is it fair to expect that rush after many years of marriage? I think of that as "new relationship" territory.

 

I'd be crushed if my H indulged in that rush with another woman

 

Again so easy to say when things are good at home and you are happy. I get that rush from my spouse. I didn't feel she got any rush from me at all..... Love yes and a pretty good life, but there is a reason I'm on LS. xxoo, I never have had the feeling you had a reason to find LS in terms of looking at our marriage....

[Realist3]

I lost a "penpal" (what a silly word) and someone I was fond of and we shared our lives. Again before I get jumped on, I crossed a line, but it was not by my definition an EA. What I did was share too much and hide it.

 

That, Sir, the the very definition of an EA. If you are sharing intimate details of your life, bonding, and hiding the relationship from your spouse it is an EA. I'm not so sure why you are so scared to admit it. It was more than a friendship and you called it wrong. It went on for 3.5 years. That is a lot of bonding, and ... an EA.

[Sub]

Again I'd say what some people post here is way too detailed and intimate and cross the exact same lines I did, however read by 1000's of people.

 

I'm not sure if you're equating the two scenarios. If so, I think it's apples and oranges. Sharing intimate details anonymously with a lot of people wasn't enough in your case. Thus the evolution to phone calls, emails and flirty pictures with one person. I think you need to be a little more honest with yourself here, in regards to the minimization.

[MuddyFootprints]

Regardless of the definition, I wish you and your wife truth, transparency, and trust as you move forward together.

 

Your confession initiated some discussion between my husband and me; I found it rather surprising how we differ in defining emotional affairs.

[merrmeade]

You pretend to talk the talk —I betrayed my wife and caused her great pain.—and walk the walk—NC and no withdrawals. Yet each of these canned speeches is followed by excuses and 'yes, buts'; then, you remember your lines and get back on track: Of course I could go on "I've never had a female friend to discuss this stuff with, what's the big deal?" Yes absolutely wrong. and I told my friend and she laughed as we were penpals as she described it (her spouse knows about me) and said she'd talk to my spouse (not a good idea).Oh, ha ha. And just what does her spouse know anyway? And what's wrong with their relationship that he's okay with her spending that much time being that close to another man?

 

And why on earth is everybody purring in sympathy with you? Because it was done on Loveshack you have some kind of immunity? Or is it basic fraternity mentality: You're one of us, so we support whatever you do? Why is there even a discussion about to what degree it was wrong- just a little or a lot? It was hurtful to your wife, right? Isn't her pain and heartbreak enough? Are you really prepared to dismiss her reality with a "Thanks for the words of encouragement," to the OP poster who mocks your wife's reaction to your "innocent" friendship. Piece of work.

 

Where is the respect, compassion or humility borne of deep remorse for the actions that caused your W so much pain? I mean, if you "didn't really do anything," then are you just playing along? What do you think was "heartbreaking" for your wife? Why do you agree that you're responsible for her pain? I would venture it was, well, (a) the fact that you'd gotten so close to this woman and (b) basically hid the degree of intimacy you shared with her from your wife. How is it NOT a big deal to be close to someone other than your spouse, your life partner, and how is it not a big deal that she didn't know about it??? Isn't the fact that you hid it tacit evidence that you knew it was wrong? Don't give me the bull**** that it's because your wife wasn't interested in LS that you didn't bring it up. You knew it was wrong even before being discovered and seeing your wife's heartbreak.

 

Give me a break. Do you really believe what you're saying and missing the contradictions? Allow me to help you, using your own words, to fill in the blanks:

• emailed her a lot
  
• would talk about our lives, this site, our f-ups and frustrations.
  
• would talk about my hang-ups and not understanding my spouse and why she reacts as she does and moods that I can't do anything about and often take blame.
  
• a place to vent, get perspective give advise and yep innocent flirting. (isn't "innocent flirting" an oxymoron?)
  
• was over 3.5 years
  
• suggestive (artsy) pictures
  
• trickle truth
  

And here's my all time favorite from Lying by Omission 101:

Never hid it, but never came up.

So how about a little 1 through 5 assessment of your remarks measured by a basic rubric, with (1) being flat out denial that anything was wrong; complete secrecy and/or lying and (5), owning mistakes, deeply remorseful for pain and suffering caused spouse, ready to do whatever is needed by spouse for healing.

On a 1-5 scale, paragraph 1 is a (2): - dismissing or downplaying issues and actions as normal or not that bad; lying by omission. (You have 50 threads, 2028 posts. Of these, most appear to be about sex; your "complaints," which you never shared apparently, are probably very painful for your wife to read.I probably wasted too much time here, my spouse knew about the site and I'd tell her some stories and state that LS has made me feel much better about my life and that my preoccupation about sex is sometimes silly (not wrong). Most of my complaints frankly are just superficial.

On a 1-5 scale, paragraph 2, 1st part, is a (4): - owning mistakes, regretting difficulties caused to marriage so R can happen

Anyhow started talking to someone here (opposite sex of course) and we forged a friendship. 3000 miles plus and thus no chance of it progressing anywhere. We then proceeded to talk on the phone. I emailed her a lot and would talk about our lives, this site, our f-ups and frustrations.

On a 1-5 scale, paragraph 2, 2nd part, is a (2):- Flirting between unmarried people is not appropriate and, therefore, not "innocent."

Yes I talked a lot about my hang-ups and not understanding my spouse and why she reacts as she does and moods that I can't do anything about and often take blame. I did cross the line, but to me it was a place to vent, get perspective give advise and yep innocent flirting. Trust me I flirt and am continually all over my spouse:p;).

On a 1-5 scale, paragraph 3 is a (3): - acknowledging behavior as questionable but still compartmentalizing; efforts to minimize or simplify

Maybe over 3.5 years 2 suggestive (artsy) pictures and talk "If we lived closer". Never ever once the word love or anything remotely close.

On a 1-5 scale, paragraph 4, 2nd part, is a (2):

Frankly I had someone I could vent to and get insight into the female mind (good & bad). I talked about stuff I'd never share with my friends and frankly shouldn't. They know and all love my spouse (and too know she can be a hardass;)).

 

I'm stopping here because it's late and these contradictions don't need my didaction. I'm adding partial contents to a letter I wrote my H the week after d-day. For reference, TDP's post #32:

.... 90% of what I did was share/vent my feelings with one person and not 1,000's here on LS

My H had a 3.5 year EA with my SIL which they both hid from me. They were not 3,000 miles away and "lost it" on a few occasions, as they told it, but maintained that their relationship was 90% friendship. This was my H's story the first week, but he dropped it after this letter. It's edited for relevancy.

Wait a minute. You did it again: "We were just friends - mostly," you said this morning. WTF! You still think this?

 

Let's have a little review:

• If (my brother) and I were not part of it 100%, it was 100% wrong. Period.
  
• Anything you had to hide from anyone, any question you could not answer - if you evaded, avoided or omitted, it was wrong. 100% wrong.
  
• And then saying you evaded, etc. because I and others would be "uncomfortable" with it? This was your own signal that it was wrong which you both chose to ignore.
  

Even if you think you can justify having an opposite sex friendship outside of your marriage (legitimized because you called yourselves ' family ' ), what about the other part? The leftover after "mostly"? That part - however itty bitty - cancels out the "mostly" and does so 100%. Which is why prudent people have boundaries. Social taboos. Rules. Mores. Norms. No one is above them. Circumstances do not change this. There can be no "mostly."

[*]Do you really not get it or do you just forget your lines sometimes? It's like you have to be coached. It's as if you don't know what the truth is - as if you try not to look bad and say what you think the other person will like.

 

Do you realize that you sound completely insincere if not lying? What does this make me? What are you going to say to your children? What do you actually feel and think? Do you know? I am not sure. I am not sure you know who you are or what is true.

Edited September 5, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Regardless of the definition, I wish you and your wife truth, transparency, and trust as you move forward together.

 

Your confession initiated some discussion between my husband and me; I found it rather surprising how we differ in defining emotional affairs.

 

And what are they.

 

By the end I realized there was no need to discuss my hang-ups and sex anymore, because there is way more important things, and what I should be happy about. My frustrations are just hat, mine and I have to handle them much better.

 

I know I need to be better as a person, husband and parent. I hope I can show that to my spouse.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You pretend to talk the talk —I betrayed my wife and caused her great pain.—and walk the walk—NC and no withdrawals. Yet each of these canned speeches is followed by excuses and 'yes, buts'; then, you remember your lines and get back on track: Of course I could go on "I've never had a female friend to discuss this stuff with, what's the big deal?" Yes absolutely wrong. and I told my friend and she laughed as we were penpals as she described it (her spouse knows about me) and said she'd talk to my spouse (not a good idea).Oh, ha ha. And just what does her spouse know anyway? And what's wrong with their relationship that he's okay with her spending that much time being that close to another man?

 

And why on earth is everybody purring in sympathy with you? Because it was done on Loveshack you have some kind of immunity? Or is it basic fraternity mentality: You're one of us, so we support whatever you do? Why is there even a discussion about to what degree it was wrong- just a little or a lot? It was hurtful to your wife, right? Isn't her pain and heartbreak enough? Are you really prepared to dismiss her reality with a "Thanks for the words of encouragement," to the OP poster who mocks your wife's reaction to your "innocent" friendship. Piece of work.

 

Where is the respect, compassion or humility borne of deep remorse for the actions that caused your W so much pain? I mean, if you "didn't really do anything," then are you just playing along? What do you think was "heartbreaking" for your wife? Why do you agree that you're responsible for her pain? I would venture it was, well, (a) the fact that you'd gotten so close to this woman and (b) basically hid the degree of intimacy you shared with her from your wife. How is it NOT a big deal to be close to someone other than your spouse, your life partner, and how is it not a big deal that she didn't know about it??? Isn't the fact that you hid it tacit evidence that you knew it was wrong? Don't give me the bull**** that it's because your wife wasn't interested in LS that you didn't bring it up. You knew it was wrong even before being discovered and seeing your wife's heartbreak.

 

Give me a break. Do you really believe what you're saying and missing the contradictions? Allow me to help you, using your own words, to fill in the blanks:

• emailed her a lot
  
• would talk about our lives, this site, our f-ups and frustrations.
  
• would talk about my hang-ups and not understanding my spouse and why she reacts as she does and moods that I can't do anything about and often take blame.
  
• a place to vent, get perspective give advise and yep innocent flirting. (isn't "innocent flirting" an oxymoron?)
  
• was over 3.5 years
  
• suggestive (artsy) pictures
  
• trickle truth
  

And here's my all time favorite from Lying by Omission 101:

Never hid it, but never came up.

So how about a little 1 through 5 assessment of your remarks measured by a basic rubric, with (1) being flat out denial that anything was wrong; complete secrecy and/or lying and (5), owning mistakes, deeply remorseful for pain and suffering caused spouse, ready to do whatever is needed by spouse for healing.

On a 1-5 scale, paragraph 1 is a (2): - dismissing or downplaying issues and actions as normal or not that bad; lying by omission. (You have 50 threads, 2028 posts. Of these, most appear to be about sex; your "complaints," which you never shared apparently, are probably very painful for your wife to read.I probably wasted too much time here, my spouse knew about the site and I'd tell her some stories and state that LS has made me feel much better about my life and that my preoccupation about sex is sometimes silly (not wrong). Most of my complaints frankly are just superficial.

On a 1-5 scale, paragraph 2, 1st part, is a (4): - owning mistakes, regretting difficulties caused to marriage so R can happen

Anyhow started talking to someone here (opposite sex of course) and we forged a friendship. 3000 miles plus and thus no chance of it progressing anywhere. We then proceeded to talk on the phone. I emailed her a lot and would talk about our lives, this site, our f-ups and frustrations.

On a 1-5 scale, paragraph 2, 2nd part, is a (2):- Flirting between unmarried people is not appropriate and, therefore, not "innocent."

Yes I talked a lot about my hang-ups and not understanding my spouse and why she reacts as she does and moods that I can't do anything about and often take blame. I did cross the line, but to me it was a place to vent, get perspective give advise and yep innocent flirting. Trust me I flirt and am continually all over my spouse:p;).

On a 1-5 scale, paragraph 3 is a (3): - acknowledging behavior as questionable but still compartmentalizing; efforts to minimize or simplify

Maybe over 3.5 years 2 suggestive (artsy) pictures and talk "If we lived closer". Never ever once the word love or anything remotely close.

On a 1-5 scale, paragraph 4, 2nd part, is a (2):

Frankly I had someone I could vent to and get insight into the female mind (good & bad). I talked about stuff I'd never share with my friends and frankly shouldn't. They know and all love my spouse (and too know she can be a hardass;)).

 

I'm stopping here because it's late and these contradictions don't need my didaction. I'm adding partial contents to a letter I wrote my H the week after d-day. For reference, TDP's post #32:My H had a 3.5 year EA with my SIL which they both hid from me. They were not 3,000 miles away and "lost it" on a few occasions, as they told it, but maintained that their relationship was 90% friendship. This was my H's story the first week, but he dropped it after this letter. It's edited for relevancy.

Wait a minute. You did it again: "We were just friends - mostly," you said this morning. WTF! You still think this?

 

Let's have a little review:

• If (my brother) and I were not part of it 100%, it was 100% wrong. Period.
  
• Anything you had to hide from anyone, any question you could not answer - if you evaded, avoided or omitted, it was wrong. 100% wrong.
  
• And then saying you evaded, etc. because I and others would be "uncomfortable" with it? This was your own signal that it was wrong which you both chose to ignore.
  

Even if you think you can justify having an opposite sex friendship outside of your marriage (legitimized because you called yourselves ' family ' ), what about the other part? The leftover after "mostly"? That part - however itty bitty - cancels out the "mostly" and does so 100%. Which is why prudent people have boundaries. Social taboos. Rules. Mores. Norms. No one is above them. Circumstances do not change this. There can be no "mostly."

[*]Do you really not get it or do you just forget your lines sometimes? It's like you have to be coached. It's as if you don't know what the truth is - as if you try not to look bad and say what you think the other person will like.

 

Do you realize that you sound completely insincere if not lying? What does this make me? What are you going to say to your children? What do you actually feel and think? Do you know? I am not sure. I am not sure you know who you are or what is true.

 

A lot to chew on. I'm sorry about what happened to you. I can make excuses and say....... but..... However that is not enough.

 

I will respectfully say my situation is much different and admit I went down that rabbit hole and can only do my best to come out a better person, husband & parent.

 

I know people will get caught up in the 1-2 pictures and lame attempts at flirting. I also will say it was safe talking/writing to someone 3000 miles away and getting insight into the opposite sex, which I never had.

 

Thank you for your comments and I hope the best for you.

[Snowflower]

TDP, you and I have been here on LS for a long time--since 2009. I think we had a disagreement here once although that could have been someone else! Anyway, let's see if I'm understanding this correctly: somewhere along the way, you found a female "penpal" through your time on LS? You started PMing and it got a little more intense from there...progressed to emails and phone calls with another LS member?

 

Am I understanding this correctly? My curiosity is piqued too. You said she wouldn't post her side of the story on LS but she was an LS member at one point? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Color me confused, I guess.

 

Wherever this female "penpal" came from, I'm confused by your vacillating between saying, it was wrong and inappropriate to it's no big deal...because people share things on LS all the time that they wouldn't share with their spouse.

 

You're all over the place here. You keep saying that it wasn't an EA. Okay fine, it wasn't. But why is that such a hard line to draw? Why wouldn't it hurt to call it an EA?

[Appreciate]

Yeah, why beat around the bush?

 

It was what it was... a wedge between you and your spouse. You were confiding emotionally in someone else and developed some feelings for each other.

 

Your wife has to be your number one. Period. She has a right to be angry because you were removing that status from her. Keeping secrets from her. That's a betrayal and therefore qualifies as an affair.

 

Try to look at it from her perspective entirely and not your own. We are inclined to be easier on ourselves to justify our actions. That's just the way we are.

 

Like others have said, it this other woman lived in your proximity, there's a high chance that it would have gone physical. What does that tell you?

 

If you have issues with your wife, NEVER confide in another woman about it except maybe your sister or a female counselor. That's Marriage 101.

 

I don't undertand, really... this just be common sense but yet it's not.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

TDP, you and I have been here on LS for a long time--since 2009. I think we had a disagreement here once although that could have been someone else! Anyway, let's see if I'm understanding this correctly: somewhere along the way, you found a female "penpal" through your time on LS? You started PMing and it got a little more intense from there...progressed to emails and phone calls with another LS member?

 

Am I understanding this correctly? My curiosity is piqued too. You said she wouldn't post her side of the story on LS but she was an LS member at one point? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Color me confused, I guess.

 

Wherever this female "penpal" came from, I'm confused by your vacillating between saying, it was wrong and inappropriate to it's no big deal...because people share things on LS all the time that they wouldn't share with their spouse.

 

You're all over the place here. You keep saying that it wasn't an EA. Okay fine, it wasn't. But why is that such a hard line to draw? Why wouldn't it hurt to call it an EA?

 

You have it right. My definition of EA is yes a fine line and one not sure I can put properly into words. I certainly crossed a line and knew that, but also the distance and frankly the love for my wife and knowing what we do have meant it was just a friend I could confide in and be as open as I was and frankly did learn from.

 

Damn right I want a great marriage and most importantly a happy wife who is excited by me not as just her spouse, but also as a man sexually.

 

When you look at your spouse and think of how much you want to be with her and to feel and touch her (and more), and think that feeling is not returned doesn't do much for your confidence and self-esteem.

 

That is why over and over I posted about sex, asked questions and wanted insight without revealing a whole lot about myself (though people had their opinions).

 

I also think many here have shared too much that could be construed as an EA with LS. We're now talking about how much time I spent with my "penpal" (yes used on purpose), but also when you think about it, how much time on these sites. I can easily rationalize it away that my spouse buries herself reading books & mysteries and I'm wasting my time on these sites and venting sharing too much.

 

Make any sense?