Striver Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Finally I can have some discourse with someone of profound insight, and I am deadly serious that point is epistemic marital infidelity something very hard to refute. The question is how much can a husband change before he no longer the same man who she married? Is the husband who didn't drink and now is an alcoholic the same man who she married. Isn't it true that sex outside the realms of matrimony is infidelity? Therefore a women married to a changed man is not committing infidelity any more than the rest of us who have ONS. All sexual liaisons other than with the said husband is infidelity Susan (as an example) is having sex with her husband Bill who is not the initial man she married. Therefore Susan is cheating on the original Bill with the new Bill Could a case be made that unless man's personality remains constant, then the marriage becomes null and void? In my case my wife first claimed that my "Asperger's like tendencies" were something she simply didn't notice until well into the marriage, so that was justification for leaving. WW supported me before the marriage in going to a therapist to deal with other issues, she knew my personal history and still supported me. So I think that's unlikely. Then it was the fact that I do things like play trivia and she doesn't enjoy that. Again, she threw me a trivia-themed 40th birthday party before I even proposed. That seems to be a sign of acceptance. Finally it was that the kids were hard that she thought they would be, so she needed a different type of person, more "bantering." By law she is probably going to have to continue to make child care decisions with me anyway, so I don't know how that helps her. She's just looking for excuses and justifications though. Link to post Share on other sites
atreides Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Finally I can have some discourse with someone of profound insight, and I am deadly serious that point is epistemic marital infidelity something very hard to refute. The question is how much can a husband change before he no longer the same man who she married? Is the husband who didn't drink and now is an alcoholic the same man who she married. Isn't it true that sex outside the realms of matrimony is infidelity? Therefore a women married to a changed man is not committing infidelity any more than the rest of us who have ONS. All sexual liaisons other than with the said husband is infidelity Susan (as an example) is having sex with her husband Bill who is not the initial man she married. Therefore Susan is cheating on the original Bill with the new Bill Could a case be made that unless man's personality remains constant, then the marriage becomes null and void? all of this is missing the point of infidelity and why it is not the betrayed's fault... it is not about change or who we were to what we have become... if the change was so drastic a separation or divorce would take place... i have seen such a thing many times. The change of someone for example my military friend, came back from war a different man... a man she could not live with but she did not cheat, they divorced. Nope this is not about change or cheating on a transcendence of what we were and therefore any sex beyond point X is infidelity... this is entirely not the point. Infidelity lives in the realm of secrecy, lies, deceit, manipulation... knowingly mind you. It is the need for more beyond what we know to be enough but is not. It is the lie to ourselves and others that what we have can change on a whim to satiate a desire or want vs what we have. It is the lie to ourselves and others that what we have is so undesirable and sub par but never enough to walk away but yet enough to lie to it to have because we may get away with it. No... the conversation is leaving the point of infidelity and why it is not the betrayed's fault nor is it the OP's 2 Link to post Share on other sites
No Limit Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Finally I can have some discourse with someone of profound insight, and I am deadly serious that point is epistemic marital infidelity something very hard to refute. The question is how much can a husband change before he no longer the same man who she married? Is the husband who didn't drink and now is an alcoholic the same man who she married. Isn't it true that sex outside the realms of matrimony is infidelity? Therefore a women married to a changed man is not committing infidelity any more than the rest of us who have ONS. All sexual liaisons other than with the said husband is infidelity Susan (as an example) is having sex with her husband Bill who is not the initial man she married. Therefore Susan is cheating on the original Bill with the new Bill Could a case be made that unless man's personality remains constant, then the marriage becomes null and void? Profound insight? Meh, I came to LS and a couple of other forums to see how the serious dating world looked like; and the results were nothing like the buddy-couples from school/college. One's personality can change at any moment. You can't differ between Bill 1, Bill 2, Bill 3... and say "I didn't cheat on the man I married, I cheated on the new him which I don't like!" This is something even marriage vows address; staying together through good and bad times. Besides, whatever issue someone has doesn't solve itself through cheating. Frankly, I believe it even blocks any process and developement (when did running and lying ever solve anything?), and ultimately destroys a lot. Had an interesting conversation with a guy who said that people shouldn't get too attached and never marry, else they wouldn't get to their 'full potential'. It appears that a lot of blame is always pushed on the other half in general... either way, changes happen, but if you know each other well enough there shouldn't be any room for cheating. And if dramatic changes (like, from democrat to convinced Nazi or other stuff that's a no-go for the other partner) happen; what's keeping you from divorcing? A lot invested into everything, yeah I got it, but the more you invest further the more will be lost in the end. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sidney2718 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 She called me last night wondering how I was doing. And we talked for a bit. Read her my letter to her which she responded with that's very nice and that it's not fair to give her an ultimatum of cutting all ties with her affair. Talked with my baby girl as well. It's like she's in pain, and she urged me to start seeing other people too. I know that is a sign of her guilty conscious. I mean, is there any hope at all there? Probably not. And I doubt she has a guilty conscience. Women and men are different. She wants you to have a life of your own mainly so that you will leave her alone. But there is one thing. Don't forget the list of your sins you posted at the head of this thread. You are NOT going to have another successful relationship until you fix those things. You need a hobby. You need to get out more. You need to learn to listen to women And it just so happens that those are the traits that if she sees are the most apt to bring her back. Don't TELL her what you are going to do, SHOW her by doing them. One thing more. You will always be connected by your daughter. You have to be a good father and you have to do your share of taking care of her. Again, don't advertise, just do it. And give her a decent divorce. Don't go for revenge. It won't help anything. Go for fair, it will help you the most in the long run. And if you do these things there is an outside chance the her present relationship will fail and that she will come back. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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