Wife is having an affair. So, . Am I in a fog too?

[Man Mountain Makino]

I know exposing the affair did a huge number on her because she left work as soon as she got there because word travels fast there. Affairs don't last under critical scrutiny. So, I hear and they also tend to have a high failure rate anyway. What's going to happen is she's going to realize how she f..cked up once reality hits her.

 

Right now, it seems like she's sitting on the fence to fantasy land. She also isn't doing anything with him this weekend so that's good.

I disagree. She jumped over the fence. She would rather be with her boyfriend than with you. That's pretty clear.

 

Also, take nothing for granted. Even if her new relationship sours (and if you play the odds, it likely will), that doesn't mean she returns to you.

[Man Mountain Makino]

I just don't want her calling the cops. She IS kind of psycho even without the affair clouding her judgement anyway. She went to her ex-fiance's place of work and busted out his rear windshield. Her mom had to pay for it. She's a real piece of work now that I think about it.

That's nothing. I had my tires slashed and arson threatened on my property.

 

Women!

[Spectre]

I said it was a natural response, not a 'right' one.

 

If that is a "natural" response then you just plain don't love your spouse, is the entire point here. We are not animals, we can control ourselves.

 

Ignore and neglect your spouse for 6 months, a year, two years, ten years and see what they do. see how many of them follow proper protocols and discuss their issues and give you fair warning and then file for divorce and wait until the ink on divorce decree is dry before they start taking up with someone else.

 

You call it "follow proper protocols" but I call it..acting like you are not still in middle school.

 

The other problem is..one complaint was the guy was lazy but..spreading your legs like a skank instead of discussing your problems sure also sounds like taking the easy or lazy way out as well. If this is a persons natural response to trouble in the relationship then they just plain *do not belong in your life*. They can't handle drama or problems like an adult, they can only handle them like a little kid.

 

I know this is a discussion with Spectre but i want to add that infidelity has nothing to do with marital problems... it is it's own form of addiction. I guess using natural or any other word to say x behavior will then elicit infidelity from their spouse is not so.

 

This is bunk. Cheating has to do with no problems in the marriage? If there are no problems..then you don't cheat. If there are no true problems..having even the INKLING to cheat will result in the person acting like an adult and not actually cheating and doing the right thing because there are apparently no problems so they will recognize this and try to seek some help.

 

I have seen both sides from families close to me and my own. Most of those that divorced did so with out infidelity but there was also a lot of infidelity as well.

The flip side of the coin in infidelity are those that have no severe marital issues and yet infidelity occurs and is a surprise and yet admitted by the WS post realization that there were no real issues that would warrant infidelity (i can think of quite a few on LS)... so in my opinion the two should not have a connection and it is sad to see BSs many of them, not all, but many that blame themselves.

 

So to the OP, hang in there

 

I think these people are just kidding themselves. If you are married you are a team. People who don't understand this just should not get married in the first place. If you have problems and you solve them by boinking others? There is a problem. There might be more of a problem with the individual then the marriage as a whole, but to suggest the marriage would have NO problems and yet..still have cheating is odd. It sounds like a lame excuse. If you "cheat for no reason" your problem in your marriage is that you are so utterly selfish and uncaring you don't need a "legit" reason to do it. That is the harsh truth cheaters do not want to face about their marriage.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Spectre

[JHS045]

Well, she blew up at home. I maintained a calm demeanor explaining to her that I had a right to be there, she insisted that I didn't. I didn't want my daughter exposed to her explosive behaviors while I calmly sat with her on the couch watching Winnie the Pooh. I left so that she doesn't have to witness it. I did record her saying that she would never say that I abandoned them as well as her nasty language in front of the child.

 

I'm over it. At this point, I see her for who she really is and I don't want any part of it. I thanked her for having my child, but that's it. She has a history of jumping from relationship to relationship, so it might be a matter of time before she jumps ship again. She had absolutely no remorse for her infidelity and said that it was justified. Whatever. Do you, I guess...

 

I noticed previous to recent events that she tends to run away from problems, and/or avoiding challenging situations, which explains her lack of motivation for self-improvement. Should a situation arise that she doesn't get her way, she lashes out physically and/or verbally. Not even her mother is spared. Everyone becomes victim to her rage. I'm starting to worry about my daughters future safety.

 

I TRIED to get her to go to school, but she made it clear that that would not happen. As well as MC. I can't improve the family's financial standing without help/effort on her part. I need a partner. Not baggage. At that point I started shutting down because I honestly couldn't imagine a future with her. Some reflecting on myself helped bring that out. I should have tried harder to motivate her, but I was just so busy with my job keeping the family afloat at the present moment. I'm just glad it's over and I wish her a safe journey in life.

Edited August 29, 2014 by JHS045

[BetrayedH]

Well, she blew up at home. I maintained a calm demeanor explaining to her that I had a right to be there, she insisted that I didn't. I didn't want my daughter exposed to her explosive behaviors while I calmly sat with her on the couch watching Winnie the Pooh. I left so that she doesn't have to witness it. I did record her saying that she would never say that I abandoned them as well as her nasty language in front of the child.

 

I'm over it. At this point, I see her for who she really is and I don't want any part of it. I thanked her for having my child, but that's it. She has a history of jumping from relationship to relationship, so it might be a matter of time before she jumps ship again. She had absolutely no remorse for her infidelity and said that it was justified. Whatever. Do you, I guess...

 

I noticed previous to recent events that she tends to run away from problems, and/or avoiding challenging situations, which explains her lack of motivation for self-improvement. Should a situation arise that she doesn't get her way, she lashes out physically and/or verbally. Not even her mother is spared. Everyone becomes victim to her rage. I'm starting to worry about my daughters future safety.

 

I TRIED to get her to go to school, but she made it clear that that would not happen. As well as MC. I can't improve the family's financial standing without help/effort on her part. I need a partner. Not baggage. At that point I started shutting down because I honestly couldn't imagine a future with her. Some reflecting on myself helped bring that out. I should have tried harder to motivate her, but I was just so busy with my job keeping the family afloat at the present moment. I'm just glad it's over and I wish her a safe journey in life.

 

...and you need an attorney.

[Chi townD]

Well, she blew up at home. I maintained a calm demeanor explaining to her that I had a right to be there, she insisted that I didn't. I didn't want my daughter exposed to her explosive behaviors while I calmly sat with her on the couch watching Winnie the Pooh. I left so that she doesn't have to witness it. I did record her saying that she would never say that I abandoned them as well as her nasty language in front of the child.

 

 

 

 

 

Wait...you left...AGAIN!!! Dude, GO BACK HOME!!!! If she wants to leave, then she can go! Geez, you talk about HER running away from her problems!

 

 

Dude! GO HOME AND STAY THERE! Stand your ground!

[jm2013]

Listen man, from what you said I think you're on the lease. Just be the 500 pound guerrilla there. If she's going to throw a fit just call the cops and let her act out in front of them. It will only help you case. It's clear this woman has not a shred of respect for you. Hell, she doesn't even care to hide it from you or seems to care about your feelings at all.

[GoBlue]

I appreciate your honesty and your oppenness. Your story is pretty much mine as well minus many of the "details". I took my wife for granted so many years and when I was ready to change it was too late for her. The fact that she has expressed positive feelings toward you is a real plus - "how are you doing?" "I still have feelings for you" etc. show that she has not closed he heart to you 100%. She still, of course, has to make the choice to put forth the effort.

 

I applaud the fact that you are going to see a minister and truly working on yourself. The number one enemy of any successful marriage is "selfishness". There is only one cure for that problem - surrender. I am aware of a free counseling service available through a Christian ministry. If you are interested please send me a private message. In the meantime, please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you.

[No Limit]

Don't blame yourself in any way. And don't even start thinking the route "if she would do this, if she would do that", because she won't. She won't go to school because she doesn't want to, she won't improve because she doesn't want to. Think of her raging as the reaction of a child who didn't get it her way.

 

Nonetheless, as annoying as it may be, you have to get in there until the court has sorted everything out. In the meantime you can record and collect evidence - it will fray your nerves for sure, but this way you might even get custody for your child (which is the ONLY way of protecting her from that nutjob).

 

Oh, and serial monogamy isn't that different from serial cheating. Stay away from 'jumpers' in the future, it has a reason why they can't maintain a stable relationship for long.

[Fearful]

Sorry for your pain but you just have to be strong for your self and your daughter. Chances are, she started cheating on you before your change in behaviour towards her. It seems you have always been a conflict avoiding through out your marriage and that gave her excess power over you. Sorry to hear this: you have no wife and your daughter have no mother because no good mother will introduce a child to the OM the way your woman did without considering its implication on the health of the child and no wife display her Ap to her husband without a second thought. So you have to combine being a father and mother to your daughter. Go back home immediate and stand your ground, dont move out even if she pull down the whole house. If you meet the OM, Call the cops to kick him out. Start divorce proceeding as soon as possible and please stop exchanging a hand shake with people who never wish you well. Exchanging hand with your woman's OM in your own house is very demeaning of you. Is just like saying: 'Hi real man thanks for banging my wife'.

[inpeices]

Quote ;

So, I got a little complacent in our 2 year marriage and committed many "Love Extinguishers." We have a 2 year old daughter that will keep us connected. I got stupid and lazy in our marriage and drove my wife to respond positively to emotional support from a man at work. We were basically pissing out each others Flames. I'd commit a marriage foul like not fulfilling her physical needs, and she'd respond to my crappiness by ripping my head off. Pretty soon our home turned into an unsafe place, with our poor daughter wondering what happened to us.

 

The other day I got the "I love you, but not IN LOVE with you" line from her, so I know it's some kind of affair. Although I still feel love for her, I moved out and we are signing separation papers tomorrow. I went to the AFFAIRCARE website and read up on it and pin-pointed every thing that I was messing up on (which was pretty much everything). Jebus, I was a terrible freakin husband.... I feel so bad for my wife. She must have went through hell with me.

 

 

Having read the entire thread & your responses, I have just three questions..the Third will hurt like hell and I'm really sorry x

You say you have been married for 2yrs..

How long have you known each other all told? Seeing your child is also 2yrs old and reading about "yoga chicks" I'm interested to know.

So my second question is...can you amicably divorce and bring up your child together despite her poor choice of ending what appears to be now, a relationship of financial convenience, with cheating after what (by your own admittance) is seemingly neglectful of both your needs.

The third question, and I'm sorry this is going to hurt, are you sure your child is 100% yours? Forgive me, but you need to seriously get all bases covered ok x

You see I am a betrayed spouse, who made mistakes and still blame myself for what happened, but between the lines, we did not deserve to be betrayed, have OM dine in our kitchen and sleep in our bed & if my situation had of been different, I'd have kicked her ass out to live with other man...alas, I didn't secure my living rights because I was promised she would never do that (given I'd been destroyed before by cheating & 'this will always be your home' and hell.. 12yrs down the line we know each other inside out and are best friends and soul mates and been to hell and back and blah blah blah) Unlike you, I had her very poorly bedridden mother in an annexe attached to our house (who I cared for all that time) so in the uk,it was me that had to leave & suffer the OM park his trashy beat up borrowed van on the lawn I'd seeded 6mth before & pooping in the downstairs toilet I'd fitted and rifling through my accounts, stealing my mail and doing all sorts of crazy stuff with my personal belongings, amongst other things I shall not mention..(those are little things compared to what happened next)

 

This sounds harsh, but if you feel strong and fancy your new found freedom, make this amicable for your daughter and give your wife the DIVORCE you both clearly want.. There's love and there's LOVE.. It takes years to build and minutes to destroy.. This, believe or not is the easy bit, recovery is possible,but I'm sorry, screwing another person in the marital bed and allowing them access all hours just takes the ripping piss..the ULTIMATE disrespect. I fought tooth and nail for my situ and almost got my family back.. But the OM, invited I'm sure on retrospect, was on the doorstep and stalking most days & nights, me there or not.. I wanted to kill him, but the truth is, it was invited.. Remember what I have written here, invited, manipulated, lies and more lies.. It's not about growing balls, it's about picking more suited people, friends included ;-) I got arrested a year later, don't make the same mistake ok..

 

I'm on the fence with it.. You follow your head for now and take care of your finances & property.. No fighting.. "Let her go" & look after you and your baby x

 

Good luck x breaks my heart everytime to read this has happened to another person, but I just had to reply to yours, it resonates highly, except I didn't have any desire to chase tail.. I was heartbroken & 3yrs out I still am about being betrayed.. We are all different I guess, but do NOT be WEAK ;-)

 

Take care x

 

And for the OW & OM out there reading this .. I'm as close to my ex as I was 3yrs ago.. And yes my new partner knows all about it... You know who doesn't? The OM LOL, joke is on those who meddle in marriages.. Watch your back that's all I can say! Karma....

[oldshirt]

If that is a "natural" response then you just plain don't love your spouse, is the entire point here. We are not animals, we can control ourselves.

 

If your spouse chronically ignores/neglects/stiff-arms/rejects/mistreats you, eventually you will not love them. once that love is gone the mind makes it's own justifications and people "control themselves' into the arms of others before they cut the cord to their old partner.

Again, I'm not saying that is right or proper, just the typical reality.

Perhaps the use of the word, "natural" is what is upsetting. Maybe I should have used the word, "typical" instead.

It is typical that people will not cut the cord until they have already had some form of contact with a Plan B(s).

 

 

You call it "follow proper protocols" but I call it..acting like you are not still in middle school.

 

 

Point taken. I can't say that I disagree with you at all. I am just looking past what people 'should' do and am pointing out what most people actually do in actual practice.

While everyone is in a reasonably happy, healthy marriage, they all say they will try to work it out with their spouse and if that fails they will divorce cleanly and then begin to move on after the ink on the divorce decree is dry.

The reality is that the vast majority do that all completely backwards. I am just pointing out that reality - not condoning it.

 

The other problem is..one complaint was the guy was lazy but..spreading your legs like a skank instead of discussing your problems sure also sounds like taking the easy or lazy way out as well.

 

 

If that is the easy way out, then maybe that's why so many do it. Again, I am not saying that it is right and I am not encouraging it. Just recognizing that it is the reality.

 

 

 

 

If this is a persons natural response to trouble in the relationship then they just plain *do not belong in your life*.

 

 

I can't say that I disagree with you there either.

 

 

 

 

 

This is bunk. Cheating has to do with no problems in the marriage? If there are no problems..then you don't cheat.

 

 

Not true at all. There are lots of people that cheat/have cheated with no identified significant problems in the marriage.

now after the fact, they have to come up with some kind of rationale so they pull something out of their butts about being dissatisfied about this or that, but they had no identified complaints prior to the cheating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If there are no true problems..having even the INKLING to cheat will result in the person acting like an adult and not actually cheating and doing the right thing because there are apparently no problems so they will recognize this and try to seek some help.

 

 

 

Interesting point and it does have some validity. The issue is people have an "inkling to cheat" to one degree or another a thousand times a day. Most people will suppress that desire a thousand times a day and go on with normal life most of the time.

The problem is some people will have the inkling a thousand times a day but on one day they only suppress it 999.

 

 

 

My point in all of this is, of the people who actually do end up leaving the majority will have already had some form of contact with someone else.

The take-away message here is unless you are abusive and your spouse flees to escape violence, if you spouse is saying they are leaving you or they are packing their bags, there is about a 90% chance there is a 3rd party involved some where out there.

.

 

Responses above.

[atreides]

If that is a "natural" response then you just plain don't love your spouse, is the entire point here. We are not animals, we can control ourselves.

 

 

 

You call it "follow proper protocols" but I call it..acting like you are not still in middle school.

 

The other problem is..one complaint was the guy was lazy but..spreading your legs like a skank instead of discussing your problems sure also sounds like taking the easy or lazy way out as well. If this is a persons natural response to trouble in the relationship then they just plain *do not belong in your life*. They can't handle drama or problems like an adult, they can only handle them like a little kid.

 

 

 

This is bunk. Cheating has to do with no problems in the marriage? If there are no problems..then you don't cheat. If there are no true problems..having even the INKLING to cheat will result in the person acting like an adult and not actually cheating and doing the right thing because there are apparently no problems so they will recognize this and try to seek some help.

 

 

 

I think these people are just kidding themselves. If you are married you are a team. People who don't understand this just should not get married in the first place. If you have problems and you solve them by boinking others? There is a problem. There might be more of a problem with the individual then the marriage as a whole, but to suggest the marriage would have NO problems and yet..still have cheating is odd. It sounds like a lame excuse. If you "cheat for no reason" your problem in your marriage is that you are so utterly selfish and uncaring you don't need a "legit" reason to do it. That is the harsh truth cheaters do not want to face about their marriage.

 

 

are you arguing "natural" or is oldshirt?

 

As for bunk, i say to the contrary... all marriages have problems yet not all cheat. Many do indeed divorce without cheating. There are also many regardless if you say they are kidding themselves that "love" their spouse and have stated there are no issues but they want more... IE cake eating. Cheating is an addiction because it behaves as such... it is the rush and re-writing of marital history or exaggerations thereof to deflect guilt of this rush because after all with addictions never want to admit to it in the first place.

The only affairs i would give to "marital problems" are exit affairs which are wrong in of themselves and cake eating to a point as into to have stability while waiting for something better. However the intent to leave was there before hand with exit affairs.

But it would not make sense to have infidelity as a result of marital problems when all marriages have problems or for those that have problems but are content but want more... really wanting more is in most situations.

By the sheer results of so many waywards that once out of the fog admit that the problems did not drive them to the affair even here on LS and other forums speaks volumes. It always takes a while because looking in the mirror is one of the hardest things we do but are better for it.

 

i get the "rational argument" of no problems = no infidelity but then again what is rational about cheating.

Edited August 30, 2014 by atreides

[Spectre]

The bottom line is that healthy marriages do not have cheating. If that is how you deal with issues then that is not healthy. If any person is using any excuse in their life as an excuse to cheat..it is not healthy. It's about communication. You do not just walk by a person and suddenly decide "I am going to cheat with this person". There has to be SOME build up to it. Instead of recognizing this and trying to get help..people cheat.

 

So it just seems silly to say cheating has nothing to do with marital problems. Can you say it isn't 100% responsible for it? Sure, but to suggest it plays no part is so utterly ridiculous and mind boggling. I think it can be a combination of things, but I also think at the root of cheating there is always some problem in the marriage. It might not be huge, but it is there, it doesn't come from that person just being mentally unstable or whatever.

[Spectre]

Well, she blew up at home. I maintained a calm demeanor explaining to her that I had a right to be there, she insisted that I didn't. I didn't want my daughter exposed to her explosive behaviors while I calmly sat with her on the couch watching Winnie the Pooh. I left so that she doesn't have to witness it. I did record her saying that she would never say that I abandoned them as well as her nasty language in front of the child.

 

I'm over it. At this point, I see her for who she really is and I don't want any part of it. I thanked her for having my child, but that's it. She has a history of jumping from relationship to relationship, so it might be a matter of time before she jumps ship again. She had absolutely no remorse for her infidelity and said that it was justified. Whatever. Do you, I guess...

 

I noticed previous to recent events that she tends to run away from problems, and/or avoiding challenging situations, which explains her lack of motivation for self-improvement. Should a situation arise that she doesn't get her way, she lashes out physically and/or verbally. Not even her mother is spared. Everyone becomes victim to her rage. I'm starting to worry about my daughters future safety.

 

I TRIED to get her to go to school, but she made it clear that that would not happen. As well as MC. I can't improve the family's financial standing without help/effort on her part. I need a partner. Not baggage. At that point I started shutting down because I honestly couldn't imagine a future with her. Some reflecting on myself helped bring that out. I should have tried harder to motivate her, but I was just so busy with my job keeping the family afloat at the present moment. I'm just glad it's over and I wish her a safe journey in life.

 

Yep, you just need to drop this woman. I'm glad you found out now and didn't end up wasting your life with a person who could treat you this way. Her saying you have no right to be there just speak volumes.

 

So I do genuinely hope all goes well with you and your children and I hope you get this terrible woman out of your life. Let her go be with the kind of scum who gets with married women, she will see real quick the type of person that guy really is.

[violet1]

The bottom line is that healthy marriages do not have cheating. If that is how you deal with issues then that is not healthy. If any person is using any excuse in their life as an excuse to cheat..it is not healthy. It's about communication. You do not just walk by a person and suddenly decide "I am going to cheat with this person". There has to be SOME build up to it. Instead of recognizing this and trying to get help..people cheat.

 

So it just seems silly to say cheating has nothing to do with marital problems. Can you say it isn't 100% responsible for it? Sure, but to suggest it plays no part is so utterly ridiculous and mind boggling. I think it can be a combination of things, but I also think at the root of cheating there is always some problem in the marriage. It might not be huge, but it is there, it doesn't come from that person just being mentally unstable or whatever.

Spectre, I get what you're saying, I do. However, in some cases marital issues have nothing to do with cheating. Some people are addicted to the butterflies and newness feeling of a new relationship. These types are usually serial cheaters. They are theu type that should not be in a monogamous relationship. They love their spouse, no desire to leave, but they love cake just as much. It's a sh*tty and selfish thing to do, but read some of the cheater forums out there. It's not uncommon.

 

You're also correct that people should communicate before cheating or ask for a divorce. However, fear is a mother effer and it can play with people's minds. The fear of the unknown can be overwhelming. The reasons people cheat instead of leaving isn't really that hard to figure out. People are either cake eaters or afraid of losing their kids, money, homes, friends, etc. The thing is though, is that nobody really knows what the future holds. This is how people allow fear to control them.

[violet1]

JSH, please don't blame yourself for her affair. It sounds like she has deep rooted issues that have nothing to do with you. Unless she owns her sh#t and works on herself, she'll never be capable of being in a healthy and happy relationship. Stay strong and don't let her downplay the A by saying it was justified. You may have contributed to the marital problems, but you had nothing do with her decision to cheat. She's broken and you can't fix her. Focus on you and your daughter.

[Spectre]

Spectre, I get what you're saying, I do. However, in some cases marital issues have nothing to do with cheating. Some people are addicted to the butterflies and newness feeling of a new relationship.

 

The problem is if you are cheating on someone you claim to love just to feel butterflies and newness then..yeah, that is a HUGE red flag and a sign of a bad marriage, because that is a damn silly reason to cheat. If a woman cheated on me and then said it was because she was "addicted to butterflies" as you say.. I honestly wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry. I would probably do a bit of both.

 

These types are usually serial cheaters. They are theu type that should not be in a monogamous relationship. They love their spouse, no desire to leave, but they love cake just as much. It's a sh*tty and selfish thing to do, but read some of the cheater forums out there. It's not uncommon.

 

If they are in love with their spouse they do not cheat. If the marriage has zero problems they do not cheat. You can try to imply otherwise and give 1,000 and 1 excuses for why these people "love" their spouses but cheat, but more or less it is just people doing exactly that: giving excuses for piss poor behavior. Actions speak louder then words and we are not children.

 

A happy marriage does not have cheating. It just doesn't, it is insane to imply it could. It doesn't mean there might not be larger issues at hand with a certain individual, but to suggest it has nothing to do with the marriage is to more or less ignore the very idea of what marriage is supposed to represent. You are talking about having your cake and eating it too? This is an example. People can't have their cake and eat it too in terms of..trying to spin it like their cheating is not a sign of an unhealthy marriage.

 

Keep in mind I am not talking about the very very small percentage of people who truly have a dangerous and hard to control mental illness.

 

You're also correct that people should communicate before cheating or ask for a divorce. However, fear is a mother effer and it can play with people's minds. The fear of the unknown can be overwhelming. The reasons people cheat instead of leaving isn't really that hard to figure out. People are either cake eaters or afraid of losing their kids, money, homes, friends, etc. The thing is though, is that nobody really knows what the future holds. This is how people allow fear to control them.

 

You might have a point, but this really doesn't change my overall point. Cheating is an inherent sign there is a problem in the marriage. It doesn't mean the individuals do not need work, but to suggest it has nothing to do with it is to just put your fingers in your ears and hum and to ignore what is right in front of you.

 

I never said it is hard to figure out why people cheat instead of leaving: it is called being inherently selfish and feeling you deserve way more then you actually do. Yes, it as in the cake example you mentioned. They feel they are entitled to it or they are so naive they think nobody is getting hurt or..something, but it all boils down to:I am selfish and I'd rather cause you pain then act like an adult.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Spectre

[mikethemechanic]

The problem is if you are cheating on someone you claim to love just to feel butterflies and newness then..yeah, that is a HUGE red flag and a sign of a bad marriage, because that is a damn silly reason to cheat. If a woman cheated on me and then said it was because she was "addicted to butterflies" as you say.. I honestly wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry. I would probably do a bit of both.

 

 

 

If they are in love with their spouse they do not cheat. If the marriage has zero problems they do not cheat. You can try to imply otherwise and give 1,000 and 1 excuses for why these people "love" their spouses but cheat, but more or less it is just people doing exactly that: giving excuses for piss poor behavior. Actions speak louder then words and we are not children.

 

A happy marriage does not have cheating. It just doesn't, it is insane to imply it could. It doesn't mean there might not be larger issues at hand with a certain individual, but to suggest it has nothing to do with the marriage is to more or less ignore the very idea of what marriage is supposed to represent. You are talking about having your cake and eating it too? This is an example. People can't have their cake and eat it too in terms of..trying to spin it like their cheating is not a sign of an unhealthy marriage.

 

Keep in mind I am not talking about the very very small percentage of people who truly have a dangerous and hard to control mental illness.

 

 

 

You might have a point, but this really doesn't change my overall point. Cheating is an inherent sign there is a problem in the marriage. It doesn't mean the individuals do not need work, but to suggest it has nothing to do with it is to just put your fingers in your ears and hum and to ignore what is right in front of you.

 

I never said it is hard to figure out why people cheat instead of leaving: it is called being inherently selfish and feeling you deserve way more then you actually do. Yes, it as in the cake example you mentioned. They feel they are entitled to it or they are so naive they think nobody is getting hurt or..something, but it all boils down to:I am selfish and I'd rather cause you pain then act like an adult.

Is it possible too love two people simultaneously? Comes to mind. Spectre I am unsure if you are referring to romantic love but there are a lot of happy and content polyamorous relationships. please clarify what is a happy relationship.

Edited August 31, 2014 by mikethemechanic

[No Limit]

Is it possible too love two people simultaneously?

 

Not if you feign monogamy and lie to one of those two. That's cake eating for the benefits and has little to do with love, but selfishness.

[Striver]

If they are in love with their spouse they do not cheat. If the marriage has zero problems they do not cheat.

 

...

 

Cheating is an inherent sign there is a problem in the marriage. It doesn't mean the individuals do not need work, but to suggest it has nothing to do with it is to just put your fingers in your ears and hum and to ignore what is right in front of you.

 

Cheating is often a sign that the cheater is unhappy in the marriage. WHY the cheater is unhappy can be for any number of reasons.

 

An example from my own life. Woman C has a choice of two partners for a LTR and possible marriage and children, men A and B. B is a bit more exciting to her, but B has a history of noncommitment, and C wants marriage and children. A is willing to give her that. So she gets involved with A, falls in love and gets married.

 

Ten years pass and children are born. A is generally a good guy and good husband, but like everyone he has his quirks and the marriage is not perfect. C begins to build up resentments about various quirks and incidents. A's own perspective is that he also is getting tired of certain compromises, but he takes no action on this and eventually gets to a new, better point of more fully accepting C with her good points and bad.

 

Maybe left alone C would get there too. What happens, though, is at this time B gets back in touch with C. If B had found another woman, D, and committed to her, perhaps he wouldn't get back in contact. But he hasn't, and he does get back in touch with C. C still has unresolved feelings towards B, and B is single and available. They share a common interest, and begin contact about that interest. A is unaware of this contact, but it continues for 9 months until C realizes that she is in love with B and wants to leave A to be with B.

 

Now was C unhappy in the marriage? C had built up resentments, certainly. But so had A. The difference is that A worked on himself and remained committed, whereas C had the temptation of B (A had no alternate partner on deck) and fell for it.

 

Comparing A and B before being involved with either of them is a legitimate choice. After one has 10 years of history and the arrival of kids, comparing shiny new B with the accumulated resentments against A (which happen in ALL marriages) isn't a fair comparison. Not a level playing field, especially since A doesn't even realize he's in a competition.

 

My story is all too typical. Many people are unhappy. It matters why they're unhappy.

[atreides]

Honestly i don't know where to begin... LS is full of stories where waywards admit post the affair and all has cleared that they were in the wrong and used excuses. Many... I would say most helpful waywards also here and other forums give advise to the betrayed for the lies that perpetuate from the other waywards mouth to justify the thrill.

 

There are exit affairs, abusive marriages, arranged marriages where infidelity occurs to escape and create a new but from what i have seen at least here, other forums and my own circles is that these are not as typical and that cake eating is the majority.

 

Take for example the many that cheat, hold an affair... but never leave... they are holding 2 romantic relationships but end the affair and the marriage continues "undisturbed" as one used to describe here on LS and what for marital problems.

 

Chasing butterflies is powerful... i know Spectre said he would laugh and cry, but the honest truth is... what addiction does not come with it's own irrationality?

 

So many times... the affair comes to be, the lies come about how awful the marriage was (never awful enough to actually leave it mind you), then the fog clears and through the graces of the betrayed and work of the wayward, the marriage continues is some fashion having never really address the so called "marital problems" as if to say if one set was even addressed how on earth are we to actually put stock in the context that we can be problem free as in a new set of problems would never come to be? So if they cheat again.... it therefore must be about the marital problems and not about the wayward themselves? This just does not make sense.

 

It is never the betrayed's fault (outside abuse or arrangement or other extreme circumstance) or you give legitimacy to infidelity and right or wrong is a moot point because as argued above it is a "natural response"

 

That is the point of so many waywards becoming a better person.. how many great stories here on LS where waywards have learned to be better people.

 

We may "laugh or cry" at our own human weaknesses as stated above in another post or both... but it does not change the reality that we are in fact capable and do behave in an irrational manner and cause great harm in the process.

 

There is no marriage problem free, there is no marriage where we are happy 100%... it is the ups and downs that shape our marital bonds and make them stronger as more obstacles some more severe than others that teach us to endure. We cannot blame the betrayed on how others cope with any problem in life because that falls solely on those that stray.

 

Hold strong OP

[mikethemechanic]

Not if you feign monogamy and lie to one of those two. That's cake eating for the benefits and has little to do with love, but selfishness.

Could we say that she is selfish but still loves him?

[No Limit]

Could we say that she is selfish but still loves him?

 

Nope. Selfishness means she loves herself. Especially in this case.

Maybe at the very beginning of an affair she still had a few thoughts about OP, but the more time she spent with OM the less she cared. The grass you water will always be greener than the grass you don't. On top of that, she obviously has no regard for her very own child since she behaves unreasonably - and noisily - right in front of her daughter. People keep talking about human nature and instincts, but often enough 'mother feelings' are totally disregarded where even the "simplest" animals care for their offspring.

Edited August 31, 2014 by No Limit

[mikethemechanic]

• 
  

Nope. Selfishness means she loves herself. Especially in this case

.

Maybe at the very beginning of an affair she still had a few thoughts about OP, but the more time she spent with OM the less she cared. The grass you water will always be greener than the grass you don't. On top of that, she obviously has no regard for her very own child since she behaves unreasonably - and noisily - right in front of her daughter. People keep talking about human nature and instincts, but often enough 'mother feelings' are totally disregarded where even the "simplest" animals care for their offspring.

Finally I can have some discourse with someone of profound insight, and I am deadly serious that point is epistemic marital infidelity something very hard to refute.

 

The question is how much can a husband change before he no longer the same man who she married? Is the husband who didn't drink and now is an alcoholic the same man who she married. Isn't it true that sex outside the realms of matrimony is infidelity? Therefore a women married to a changed man is not committing infidelity any more than the rest of us who have ONS.

 

All sexual liaisons other than with the said husband is infidelity

Susan (as an example) is having sex with her husband Bill who is not the initial man she married.

Therefore Susan is cheating on the original Bill with the new Bill

 

Could a case be made that unless man's personality remains constant, then the marriage becomes null and void?