Moocher or Good Housewife?

[Whatitistoburn]

Based on what you've written, there was no genuine love and passion right from the start. Those are the main reasons why you marry someone. Love that goes far beyond friendship or religion. Since this issue has been going on for a while, you have also lost your respect for her. So there's no love, passion, respect for her as your wife, your partner who you chose to share and spend the rest of your life with and who will be the mother of your kids. Because there is none of that, there is no reason to stay. That for me is non-negotiable.

 

I'm a Christian but I have given up being a part of an organization since my bestfriend left because I married a man who's an atheist. My H turned out to be a better human being far better than all of them in that group combined.

 

Your wife might be clinically depressed. She should see a psychiatrist, not a GP. Her depression could be due to stress at home, inability to help out with finances by getting a good job and the like. If she is indeed clinically depressed, then, that explains why she can't function to her full potential, she is constantly drained and thinks she's sick or worse dying.

 

It is extremely difficult to put up with married life if there is no love and concern for the other person as your wife and partner, not just as your friend or churchmate.

[2sunny]

I think she is scamming you. Just about any idiot can pass the required classes to get an AA degree, it's not like she was going for her doctorate. I think she just didn't put in enough effort to pass her classes because she didn't care.

 

While you guys aren't thriving, you are doing a fine job of taking care of her, and you noticed that seems to make her much happier than her actually trying to contribute.

 

All the health problems she has ties into her desire to have someone take care of her. I used to date a girl like that. She likes the extra attention she gets when she is "ill." Once she is done milking one illness, she will move on to another one. It also helps her come up with excuses on why she doesn't have, or can't hold a job.

 

I think your wife might get a job and work for a little bit out of boredom, but you can't rely on her, period. She is not responsible, or dependable, and has no desire to be those things. She is telling you what she wants, a husband who takes care of her. That's what she is grooming you to be. You married her under the misconception that she would work, but clearly, she will not.

 

Yep.

 

She will continue to have new illnesses for the attention and to get out of working.

 

Divorce her unless you intend to have her drag you down every day for the next 40 or 50 years.

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

Oh yeah, and she just happened to forget to take her pill. I honestly don't think she's trying to get pregnant - she says she wants to be absolutely healthy, kick caffeine, eat only clean food, no medicines or alcohol, all sorts of stuff before she gets pregnant, but I never know.

.

 

Did you not read my first post in this thread?? (post #4)

 

 

Seriously dude, she is going to get pregnant if you don't protect your sperm.

 

 

You need to keep sperm far far away from this chick. She knows you are getting more and more disgruntled by the day and she also knows that your personal value system would never let you kick her to the curb if she were carrying your child.

 

 

She is also a hypochondriac that wants people to take care of her and give her attention. Even super healthy and fiercely independent, squared away women need extra support and attention and have extra aches and pains when they are pregnant and have newborn babies.

 

 

She is also immature and irresponsible. Even if she isn't diabolical and scheming, she is such a slacker and irresponsible that she'll get knocked up on sheer irresponsibility and laziness.

 

 

YOU are going to have to be responsible for your own sperm and your own reproductive rights. It is going to be 100% up to you to protect your DNA. She is not capable of being dependable to be responsible for your reproductive best interests.

 

 

You may be conservative and may be religious and have a strong sense of morality and ethics, but there is no excuse for being naïve and irresponsible and letting someone else that you know is an immature, irresponsible slacker be responsible for your reproductive rights.

[bubbaganoosh]

Boils down to something like this. Yeah she sounds like a chronic complainer and a underachiever but if your going to get married, then you do so when you can afford to.

 

In your case, your still in school and planning for a job in the future to support the both of you but that and 2 dollars will get you a cup of coffee.

 

In all honesty, neither one of you really planned this out real good. All the love in the world, all the good sex in the world serves no purpose when a empty stomach and bank account overwhelm the both of you.

 

With her and her ailments, this is who she is and always will be and you better get used to it. If need be, on your way home from school, stop at a few stores and get job applications for her, bring them home and have her spend the evening filling them out even if you have to sit at the table with her. If they accept applications on line then have her belly up to the computer, give her two aspirins for her pain du jour, a cup of coffee and tell her to type away and sit there with her.

 

If she complains, then let her know that at one time you had an agreement with her that you would fund her schooling and in return she would be the bread winner until you finished school and so far she hasn't lived up to her end.

 

Don't mince words with her and if you have to, let her know that if this continues then the marriage is already on shaky ground and it will get to the point to where it can't be repaired.

 

Put it in her lap and do it in a way that she see's that your serious and your coming to the end of your rope with her. If she really cares about the marriage and you, she'll live up to her end of the deal.

Edited August 30, 2014 by bubbaganoosh

[2sunny]

If you don't have the money to send her home (have you asked her family to pay for her return?) - then she could seek help at a homeless shelter.

 

A homeless shelter would still encourage her to find work.

 

 

You have a situation where you can support yourself. Healthy people usually have that drive to support self. Since she doesn't have that drive and expects you to support her too - then seeing that you aren't able to do both - it's apparent that she's dragging you down in just supporting yourself.

 

Have you read the glass castle?

 

It may always be this way for her! Are you prepared to support a gal that should be capable of working but finds every excuse not to? If you want to, then stay married. If not, then get divorced.

 

 

Don't expect things to change UNLESS YOU change them.

[hoping2heal]

I think your complaints with her are legitimate.

 

But, you aren't innocent in this either. You married her with prior knowledge that she is not very ambitious and does not have much in the way of experience when it comes to working a full time job or staying committed for a substantial amount of time. She did not do it with school, she did not do it with work. You mentioned not thinking it mattered during dating, but how could it not? You also mentioned her not saying she didn't want to be a housewife. How would she know that when she had not been able to committ to employment or educational pursuits? She might ideally want to be that way, but until she can put her money where her mouth is its just words.

 

You cannot force her to grow ambition and diligence.

[Turtles]

I think your complaints with her are legitimate.

 

But, you aren't innocent in this either. You married her with prior knowledge that she is not very ambitious and does not have much in the way of experience when it comes to working a full time job or staying committed for a substantial amount of time. She did not do it with school, she did not do it with work. You mentioned not thinking it mattered during dating, but how could it not? You also mentioned her not saying she didn't want to be a housewife. How would she know that when she had not been able to committ to employment or educational pursuits? She might ideally want to be that way, but until she can put her money where her mouth is its just words.

 

You cannot force her to grow ambition and diligence.

 

While true there is a big stretch between "not very ambitious" and "not wanting to do anything". There is a reasonable assumption that the individual you marry is going to strive to be a functioning adult.

[2sunny]

You thought you married a grown woman - since she participates like a child - send her home to her parents.

[aussietigerwolf]

Just curious... What do you think she could do with the condoms in the trash?

 

My Chrystal Ball is telling me that there is going to be an unplanned pregnancy in your near future.

 

She may or may not be a classic moocher or a gold digger or anything but she sounds like she may be a bit of a slacker and just assumes people are going to take care of her and that she is entitled to someone else doing all the heavy lifting and making all the decisions and putting in th long hours.

 

She sounds more immature and irresponsible than diabolical and calculating.

 

Couple that with a conservative view that men should provide for woman and take care of them and you have the perfect recipe for her to be lax and sloppy with birth control.

 

You better start covering it up and pulling it out. Probably a good idea to just do BJ s and handjobs etc and make sure she can't dig any condoms out of the trash when you're not looking.

 

She is simply not a career/professional oriented woman with high aspirations for career and financial accomplishment.

 

I have the feeling she went to college on her daddy's dime to get her M.R.S. Degree and now that she obtained that, she is going to skate and backslide.

 

If you have dreams of partnering with an ambitious career woman who is going to be your professional and financial equal, you picked the wrong one.

 

If she lead you to believe she was a career woman, you were duped.

[aussietigerwolf]

Wow... And they say no one respects their marriage vows anymore...

If you don't have the money to send her home (have you asked her family to pay for her return?) - then she could seek help at a homeless shelter.

 

A homeless shelter would still encourage her to find work.

 

 

You have a situation where you can support yourself. Healthy people usually have that drive to support self. Since she doesn't have that drive and expects you to support her too - then seeing that you aren't able to do both - it's apparent that she's dragging you down in just supporting yourself.

 

Have you read the glass castle?

 

It may always be this way for her! Are you prepared to support a gal that should be capable of working but finds every excuse not to? If you want to, then stay married. If not, then get divorced.

 

 

Don't expect things to change UNLESS YOU change them.

[Ron103]

We had a big fight on Friday. I don't remember all the details, just that she kept demonstratively telling me things like "how dare you call me weak, you had 2 parents who loved you, I didn't, I have overcome," talking about being the only mixed girl at her school (even though she went to school in a very safe wealthy suburb and was never bullied for being mixed), having an eating disorder etc. I told her that at some point she just needed to get beyond that and grow out of it. She told me that I was cruel and condescending. She went on about God and the Bible and I flat out said "God says, get a job," which made me want to laugh, I was just so tired of everything she says being God's opinion. Speaking of which, she called me evil repeatedly and then lunged at me and punched/clawed me a couple of times. I was able to pull away and only managed to get my thumb jammed and have a few minor cuts on my leg. She also locked me out of the bedroom and wouldn't let me have the phone or the keys to the car someone let us borrow from church (that sentence sounds so pathetic). I didn't raise my voice at all because I was just so over this.

 

I don't remember if it was before or after this, but I had to go to school and when I came back she was gone (she had threatened to leave) and she had left me a note saying she knew me well and knew that I was going to be gone for a few days and that she didn't know when she would be back. Of course I didn't go anywhere, and she came back that night.

Yesterday she left me some kind of letter apologizing and saying she'd get a job. It was very heart felt and had a line in there about being best friends once and a quote that I said in a fight early on in our marriage that, "whether you like it or not, I'm yours. I belong to you." That was the only thing that got to me, and so perhaps against my better judgement I didn't kick her to the curb, but we talked it out. Apparently she has no qualms about applying for jobs now and she's going to do that tomorrow. She wanted to know that I'd never leave her. I thought that was pretty funny considering she's the one who's thrown the D word around so liberally since we got married. She says that she has said a lot of things that she didn't mean, which I think is true, but still. I told her I wasn't leaving her, but if she left me I wouldn't be chasing her. She's been really sweet and happy over the past day and a half, and I'm slowly warming back up to her, but I'm still not sold. I'm just so tired of this happening over and over.

 

You have all brought up great points. I really didn't think this through very much before getting married, our levels of education are quite different (GED vs gradschool) and our socioeconomic backgrounds are also quite different. I think WhatItIsToBurn made a good point about love as well. I think, in some ways I went through with this because I thought it was the right thing to do. I didn't feel passion, but I thought that "the heart is deceitful above all things." When we have sex I usually don't want to kiss, though I usually eventually do, even though I used to absolutely love kissing in previous relationships. I really like randomly making out in the day or teasing, building up tension for some future point, but it just doesn't happen here; it's not natural for her, and I just don't feel it either.

 

If I'm being completely honest I just feel fake and like this was fake. Our wedding was absolutely stunning and everyone was so happy for us. People at church and my mom, grandma, and especially people at church were very happy of me and proud of me for making a "good choice." I remember feeling a sense of satisfaction, but also slight resentment when I heard that the ladies at church had said at one wedding shower that I was finally maturing. I feel fake because I wanted to be mature and I wanted to make a good choice and I put aside things like chemistry and what felt natural to make the "right" choice. I feel fake because I wanted to wait for sex until marriage, but after my first relationship pushed the boundaries to oral I stayed at that level, making me want to get married sooner than later because staying at 3rd base for years just seems so pathetic, you didn't really save yourself but you aren't giving yourself fully. I put pressure on myself not to date too many people so as to keep my heart pure, but I really should have just gone with it and not thought about how many relationships I had before getting married (an odd point of contention between my wife and I, as I was her first boyfriend, she feels like she saved her heart for me). It just all seems absurd. I wish I had just gone with my gut. We broke up like three times before getting married and every time I eventually had this overwhelming guilt that I was a bad person and that I was mean and ungodly, but honestly I just don't think we are right for each other.

 

I have slowly told my parents and my grandma about what's going on and they think I'm being reasonable, but they also strongly believe that God gave her to me for some reason and that I'm supposed to have her. That's something I'm not so sure about, but what I am sure about is that I made the mistake of not trusting myself in the past, and I think that's honestly what got me into this whole situation to begin with. It seems that the whole "one person one true love" concept is relatively recent and probably a product of the Victorian Age. I do think you could have "one true love" but it would be by choice/happening which for many is not as romantic, but I still think it is. I don't see anything in the Bible that says that God specifically has picked out one specific person for you, and many times it looks like people made a poor choice in choosing a spouse. In fact, it seems that the economics of marriage were even more emphasized back in the day. Call me weird, but I feel that there's something distinctly sexy about this. I feel that it's straightforward. We want attractive, healthy partners because they are more likely to produce healthy offspring, ensuring that we pass on our DNA. That's not what we think when we see someone attractive, but that's the evolutionary anthropology behind why we find it attractive. Likewise, we want someone we can depend on. Someone with no work ethic and a weak mind would have been a huge setback to our huntergatherer ancestors. My wife had a huge mental breakdown when I decided to scrap the car as it was no longer worth putting money into it. I can only imagine if this was something more serious like a rival tribe encircling the camp or having to migrate to another land to escape a famine (once I had a voicemail from her saying she thought she was going to die and that she had made peace with her impending doom). I know this is completely nerdy and unsexy when worded this way, but I think when you break it down there are deep innate reasons we are turned on by someone with a clear mind and a strong work ethic.

 

I'm really looking forward to talking to the counselor tomorrow. I'm also slowly opening up to the idea of separation. When I came home and she was gone I felt so relieved. I'm almost feeling remorse over not saying that we should split this weekend, but I would feel bad about not giving this one last shot. There's no way she doesn't know my expectations at this point, and maybe I'll get hit by "you should love your spouse no matter what, you swore to, it's not about what she does, it's about who she is," but I don't think I can take another episode like this weekend. I think next time it's separation.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Ron103

[heartshaped]

I logged in just to say I think you've made a terrible mistake in marrying your wife and this is coming from someone with just as much a religious background as you and just as much faith.

 

Now the question is what do you do now that you've made this mistake. Marriage isn't something to be entered into lightly and honestly, it sounds like you did. You didn't give it a lot of thought or evaluate her character throughly enough.

 

Your family and your pastor will tell you to stick it out with her because she's your wife and to honor your vows and to not commit the sin of divorce etc. etc. but what about the sin we all commit daily? None of us are without sin no matter how much we try. It's why we need God in the first place.

 

I'm not telling you to divorce your wife. But if this cannot be worked out, I don't think you should stay and have children with this woman. When I say worked out I mean if she isn't willing to compromise, get the help that she so desperately needs, and if you cannot love her in the way that a man should love his wife..you should divorce her.

 

Attacking you is not okay, acting out like a child is not okay, not working or being responsible what so ever is not okay, and you staying in a marriage that you are not truly invested in or happy in is not okay either.

 

Which is worse, for you to commit the sin of divorce or sin against her in the things you think and say and do to her because of her actions?

[stillafool]

If thy right hand offends you, cut it off.

[2sunny]

Since she says she'll get a job - tell her to have a full time job by the end of the week.

 

And use protection IF you have sex with her - she's likely going to be pregnant soon so you will feel you can't divorce her.

[bathtub-row]

I'm trying to figure out what happened to your good-paying job, and why did you get married before you finished college? It just seems like a backwards way of doing things. Before, you only had to deal with yourself, now you've got these complications. And if she gets pregnant, you've got a true mess on your hands.

 

I don't know what your wife is doing. Flunking the classes? That's pretty bad. Applying at Starbucks and getting excited about it before they even call her in for an interview? Does she have any idea how many people apply at Starbucks? She sounds very naive and she isn't helping out in a situation where a lot of help is needed.

[bathtub-row]

Ok, I just read your post about the fight on Friday. This girl is nuts and you would be doing yourself a favor if you'd just get out of this marriage.

 

Be very careful at this point because when a woman like that even suspects that she's about to be dumped, she will sweet talk you and do everything in her power to get you to sleep with her so that she can get pregnant. And if you think she can't get pregnant because she's taking the pill, don't be too sure that she's actually taking it. Women like this are full of tricks. Don't let yourself get fooled any longer.

[Mirages]

Hmm, good luck with the counselor. Think thru in your head some simple complaints to tell. When stressed, you might "forget." I would also not let the counselor attempt to make you submissive to nonsense, I'd bring up the physical violence.

 

I recently split from a critter like this, after many years, your experiences sound similar. Take a look at Borderline Personality Disorder on wikipedia, etc. It is not diagnosed freqently due to the subject deceiving the therapist, and due to the refusal of insurance companies to cover treatment. But... you might find some understanding of BPD in her. And a rough upbringing is believed to be a permanent cause of this.

 

You have a grad degree, find God in your studies, and in your heart; stop worrying about what other's think. You are Ron, not Hosea!

[pteromom]

You have very different values. She is going to want to have children and stay at home with them. She is likely never going to prioritize a career, and if she works, she'll likely be one of those 33 year olds who work at McD's, like her brother. This is who she is.

 

If you can't respect who she is, you are better off just cutting ties and moving on before she tells you she is pregnant.

 

That's not even to mention your lack of passion for her. If you aren't wanting to kiss her 18 months in, that doesn't bode well for a future.

 

I don't agree that God gives you someone for a reason. Even if you believe that, maybe the reason is to show you what you DON'T want so you can have some high standards when you look for your forever mate. (And "high standards" doesn't mean just sexual compatibility, but compatibility of values and goals.)

[WasOtherWoman]

I think she is scamming you. Just about any idiot can pass the required classes to get an AA degree, it's not like she was going for her doctorate. I think she just didn't put in enough effort to pass her classes because she didn't care.

 

While you guys aren't thriving, you are doing a fine job of taking care of her, and you noticed that seems to make her much happier than her actually trying to contribute.

 

All the health problems she has ties into her desire to have someone take care of her. I used to date a girl like that. She likes the extra attention she gets when she is "ill." Once she is done milking one illness, she will move on to another one. It also helps her come up with excuses on why she doesn't have, or can't hold a job.

 

I think your wife might get a job and work for a little bit out of boredom, but you can't rely on her, period. She is not responsible, or dependable, and has no desire to be those things. She is telling you what she wants, a husband who takes care of her. That's what she is grooming you to be. You married her under the misconception that she would work, but clearly, she will not.

 

Absolutely.

[Ron103]

Talking with a counselor today was good. I feel like a weight is off my chest and I feel good enough to tell her that I'm not sure if I believe the Bible is 100% accurate anymore. I also feel good about separating if we fight again.

 

*edit* actually I'm still really tired. I want to split but we don't have the money for her to go home right now.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ron103

[Mirages]

In a sense I hope it was helpful. but...

I want to split but we don't have the money for her to go home right now.

You know this reasoning is not going to cut it in partnership? Is that what you told the MC, hopefully so, if this is true, then split. The MC is good at entertaining the couple for a period, but if you want out, get out... I even changed careers to entertain (distract) myself to stay in the marriage. But I got out, all for the better.

 

that I'm not sure if I believe the Bible is 100% accurate anymore.

Whether the Bible is inspired, accurate, etc. is a whole other dialogue, but certainly using scripture as a lever to keep you cornered is not right. I'll leave you with a thought: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi

[2sunny]

Talking with a counselor today was good. I feel like a weight is off my chest and I feel good enough to tell her that I'm not sure if I believe the Bible is 100% accurate anymore. I also feel good about separating if we fight again.

 

*edit* actually I'm still really tired. I want to split but we don't have the money for her to go home right now.

 

That's really for her to figure out now.

 

It may be worth her contacting her family to send money for a bus ride home.

[CarrieT]

Ron, is there any reason you can't state up front that you don't see it working out and that you two need to start the process of separating?

 

i.e., saving the money to move and shouldering the costs of a lawyer to do things legally?

 

You have essentially checked out of the marriage and I'm not sure why you are waiting for another fight to make it official.

[Sw3etdev1L]

Maybe she is depressed that,s why she doesnt have energy to do anything. Support her, search for a good doctor. Motivarte her. Or has something else. If she is healthy and doesnt do anything then that is another story. Dont be so hard on her now, if she does have depression she will get through it and be naturally motivated. You got married because you love each other. If she was searching for money she would of married someone rich or old to be well established and not tolerating your economic anguishes. She must not be happy with your economical position neither. So just love each other and support each other. If you dont want to be in that committment because you are young and without a good income to support a family just get a divorce and mature. But if it is worth it, support each other and love each other. Life has all types of stages, it is not linear, it fluctuates.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Sw3etdev1L

[hoping2heal]

While true there is a big stretch between "not very ambitious" and "not wanting to do anything". There is a reasonable assumption that the individual you marry is going to strive to be a functioning adult.

 

Really?

 

I don't know just my .02 cents here, but a marriage certificate performs no magic. If a person is an adult and has not strived to be a functioning adult yet I cannot for the life of me imagine how getting married would change that.