Finally ready...

[venusishername]

"Anyway, forget what he wants! Let's focus on what you want. Don't you want a man who contacts you the next day after being with him?

 

 

Yes, I do.

[Zahara]

I think all this analyzing is a way to avoid from what's very simple and straightforward.

 

If a man is interested in you, he's not going to allow space, time and zero communication to get in the way of possibly risking his chances of getting close to a woman. He nurtures and keeps it going. When a guy can go days without reaching out, it means that he just doesn't want to get intouch. That's a sign.

 

In that sense, step back and let him come to you. He had no issues with feeding you words at the bar, no issues with passionately kissing you at the bar -- showing you pursuit and interest. That shouldn't change, that should intensify as it's new and exciting. Instead, it's regressing.

 

Let him come to you if you still want to hold out for him. It isn't about rules but more so you realizing that you're worthy of having a man pursue you. And if he doesn't, all the better because you will have your answer (you already have it actually) and you can move on.

[venusishername]

I think all this analyzing is a way to avoid from what's very simple and straightforward.

 

If a man is interested in you, he's not going to allow space, time and zero communication to get in the way of possibly risking his chances of getting close to a woman. He nurtures and keeps it going. When a guy can go days without reaching out, it means that he just doesn't want to get intouch. That's a sign.

 

In that sense, step back and let him come to you. He had no issues with feeding you words at the bar, no issues with passionately kissing you at the bar -- showing you pursuit and interest. That shouldn't change, that should intensify as it's new and exciting. Instead, it's regressing.

 

Let him come to you if you still want to hold out for him. It isn't about rules but more so you realizing that you're worthy of having a man pursue you. And if he doesn't, all the better because you will have your answer (you already have it actually) and you can move on.

 

 

You are right, Zahara. I do want to be pursued, which is why I got so excited about this, because he has been actively doing so... but it's true, it has regressed. Probably for good reason too. Signing off now and letting it go...

[BluEyeL]

If you listen and let him come to you, you'll increase the chances that he'll stick around long enough for him to develop deeper/real feelings for you. I think, if you don't contact him, he will eventually contact you and it's going to be better for you in the long run. Wait, he will contact you. If you contact him, you'll decrease your chances.

 

I know this not because of the rules, but because I dealt with guys like this more than once. Maybe not as smooth, but the hot/cold behavior. They always contacted me eventually and I was able to prevent them going poof just by being patient enough to give them the space they needed. He knows how to reach you and he will reach you. With the guys I dated, those who were behaving like this did stick around, but never actually gave me what I wanted, so I let them go, I couldn't wait anymore for them to make up their mind. But you may want to wait. If you contact him you'll satisfy your immediate need to remove your anxiety, but you'll decrease your chances at a relationship.

[HappyLove]

If you listen and let him come to you, you'll increase the chances that he'll stick around long enough for him to develop deeper/real feelings for you. I think, if you don't contact him, he will eventually contact you and it's going to be better for you in the long run. Wait, he will contact you. If you contact him, you'll decrease your chances.

 

I know this not because of the rules, but because I dealt with guys like this more than once. Maybe not as smooth, but the hot/cold behavior. They always contacted me eventually and I was able to prevent them going poof just by being patient enough to give them the space they needed. He knows how to reach you and he will reach you. With the guys I dated, those who were behaving like this did stick around, but never actually gave me what I wanted, so I let them go, I couldn't wait anymore for them to make up their mind. But you may want to wait. If you contact him you'll satisfy your immediate need to remove your anxiety, but you'll decrease your chances at a relationship.

 

 

Do men all read the same book that makes them act like this? Why does such a large majority of men behave this way?

[BluEyeL]

Do men all read the same book that makes them act like this? Why does such a large majority of men behave this way?

Because "they're just not that into us". But that's an oversimplification imo.

 

In general, from my observations, this type is emotionally unavailable for one reason or another. They are afraid of losing their freedom and not serious about finding love, but at the same time still need sex and companionship, just not daily. If they get close, then they run back away to make sure they're not getting themselves into a relationship that is too close and that they don't actually want. They are like scared stray dogs if you want. If you don't make sudden movements, they start learning that is safe to get close to you again and you'll not try to lock them in your cage and take away their freedom.

 

The idea of giving them space is for them to come back often enough that they spend enough time with you to develop real feelings. But, in my experience, in fact it tends not to happen. But they'll stick around at the "crumbs" level and there is some trace of a chance that a miracle will happen and they'll become "into you".

[Jules Dash]

Because "they're just not that into us". But that's an oversimplification imo.

 

In general, from my observations, this type is emotionally unavailable for one reason or another. They are afraid of losing their freedom and not serious about finding love, but at the same time still need sex and companionship, just not daily. If they get close, then they run back away to make sure they're not getting themselves into a relationship that is too close and that they don't actually want. They are like scared stray dogs if you want. If you don't make sudden movements, they start learning that is safe to get close to you again and you'll not try to lock them in your cage and take away their freedom.

 

The idea of giving them space is for them to come back often enough that they spend enough time with you to develop real feelings. But, in my experience, in fact it tends not to happen. But they'll stick around at the "crumbs" level and there is some trace of a chance that a miracle will happen and they'll become "into you".

 

 

Wow. I have never seen the past 20 years of my life summed up so well. Give or take a couple of years or so and recent changes but I am only speaking for myself.

[WonderKid]

I'm glad you are letting it go. I'm not one to sugarcoat things. But in your circumstance you are either BF/GF or FWB. His mind was already made up from the beginning. My suggestion again to you is to leave this guy alone. Because he is not going to give you what you want in no shape or form. And he has other women on the side. Tied down for years and years + fresh off a divorce + single again = he's not looking for ANYTHING long term.

[venusishername]

Wow, you guys are good! I will heed your advice.

In this situation it's more important for me to reflect on myself and why I feel so insecure anyway. It's not because of someone else that I feel this way. I'm not even sure if I am really ready for anything more serious yet, I think I need to take it slower than I thought.

 

I'm not sure, Wonderkid, I'm not looking to 'label' this situation as "FWB or BF/GF" at this point. I just want someone to follow through with their word and I want to date someone that I trust is interested and who wants to spend time getting to know me and who is not using me. That's all.

 

From age 19-27 I was in two consecutive long term relationships, both which eventually became controlling and verbally abusive. My last long term relationship was the most traumatic experience I've ever had and I'm not sure I'm fully recovered. I've been healing myself and I want something healthy and real and to be respected above all. I've really struggled with my self-worth since then. I find it very hard to trust men, but I want to. I think that's why I'm clinging to this so much because I WANT to trust someone again. I just want to be treated with respect.

[heartshaped]

From age 19-27 I was in two consecutive long term relationships, both which eventually became controlling and verbally abusive. My last long term relationship was the most traumatic experience I've ever had and I'm not sure I'm fully recovered. I've been healing myself and I want something healthy and real and to be respected above all. I've really struggled with my self-worth since then. I find it very hard to trust men, but I want to. I think that's why I'm clinging to this so much because I WANT to trust someone again. I just want to be treated with respect.

 

Trust has to be earned. Not given out like candy on Halloween to anyone who knocks at your door.

 

You are an amazing person and worthy of any man, but not every man is worthy of you. <- that is the lesson I think most who have suffered from abuse fail to learn and cleave to.

 

In regards to this guy, I think he just wants something far more casual than you do. He probably isn't looking for a relationship at any point in the foreseeable future so of course he is going to create some distance between you.

 

Doesn't make him a bad guy, just not the guy for you.

[venusishername]

Trust has to be earned. Not given out like candy on Halloween to anyone who knocks at your door.

 

You are an amazing person and worthy of any man, but not every man is worthy of you. <- that is the lesson I think most who have suffered from abuse fail to learn and cleave to.

 

In regards to this guy, I think he just wants something far more casual than you do. He probably isn't looking for a relationship at any point in the foreseeable future so of course he is going to create some distance between you.

 

Doesn't make him a bad guy, just not the guy for you.

 

Thank you. My friends and here on LS say to wait and he will contact me. If what you say is true, and he isn't a jerk who would string me along, I wonder what would make someone close the distance and not let it just 'fade out' without a word? You know, like rather than being half-way be nothing at all?

Edited September 4, 2014 by venusishername

[venusishername]

I think I've come to a slightly better place than I have been up until this point, but still having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I've never had a guy come on so strong and be consistent in his pursuit and have things going really well to come to a screeching halt like this without explanation.

 

 

I know that I want more and deserve more than something half-assed. In the past I was ok with casual and not looking for anything more, so I dated men who were emotionally unavailable and without much substance. It was safer that way. If I would've met this guy a year ago, I would have likely been comfortable with this distance. I recall the amount of time that used to pass between communications and dates with the 'casual' guys, and it was a long time that never really mattered much to me. Usually it would stretch out for weeks at a time, and I didn't care too much because my heart wasn't in it.

 

 

I am proceeding with caution and not having any high expectations of this man anymore. I will give him one more chance, if he takes it. I also think he'd be lucky to have another chance the more time goes on.... I'm empathetic to his 'situation' and I like him enough to be somewhat patient, but not to the extent that I'm settling for something less than what I want... it's not worth it!

 

 

I know how I will go forward if he DOES contact me, but I wonder if I will hear anything at all! After everything leading up to this point, I worry that he just will fade out and I'll never hear from him again. I truly did not get the impression up until this point that he lost interest or a jerk just out to bed me and dump me. Do you all think I will eventually hear from him? (I know, if I don't, he'd be doing me a favor). Just curious...

[Eighty_nine]

I think I've come to a slightly better place than I have been up until this point, but still having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I've never had a guy come on so strong and be consistent in his pursuit and have things going really well to come to a screeching halt like this without explanation.

 

 

I know that I want more and deserve more than something half-assed. In the past I was ok with casual and not looking for anything more, so I dated men who were emotionally unavailable and without much substance. It was safer that way. If I would've met this guy a year ago, I would have likely been comfortable with this distance. I recall the amount of time that used to pass between communications and dates with the 'casual' guys, and it was a long time that never really mattered much to me. Usually it would stretch out for weeks at a time, and I didn't care too much because my heart wasn't in it.

 

 

I am proceeding with caution and not having any high expectations of this man anymore. I will give him one more chance, if he takes it. I also think he'd be lucky to have another chance the more time goes on.... I'm empathetic to his 'situation' and I like him enough to be somewhat patient, but not to the extent that I'm settling for something less than what I want... it's not worth it!

 

 

I know how I will go forward if he DOES contact me, but I wonder if I will hear anything at all! After everything leading up to this point, I worry that he just will fade out and I'll never hear from him again. I truly did not get the impression up until this point that he lost interest or a jerk just out to bed me and dump me. Do you all think I will eventually hear from him? (I know, if I don't, he'd be doing me a favor). Just curious...

 

Hey Venus, I've read through this entire thread and I empathize a great deal with you. You sound a lot like me both in terms of your relationship history and the way you think, analyze, and rationalize. It's actually sort of painful for me to give you this 'advice' because it brings up so many memories of similar situations that I've been in but- this guy is not going to commit to you, will probably string you along for awhile if you allow him to and end up causing you a whole lot of hurt.

 

I think the reason people like you and me allow this and get so invested is we can't stand the 'rejection'- it's not only our feelings that are hurt but our egos. The thing is, it's not that he is not "into" you- he obviously finds you attractive and interesting enough to hang out with, sleep with, etc. So try to stop seeing it as a rejection and it might not hurt so much, you might be able to move on more quickly.

 

It's probably true that he's not THAT into you... meaning enough to pursue an actual relationship with you. I'm guessing this is probably linked to you 'giving in' too easily, going to his place that night... not being enough of a 'challenge.' But it also might be because he's emotionally unavailable. I feel like it sounds like a combination of both. Don't beat yourself up about it, it's so easy to get lost in the magic of that kind of situation and end up feeling like you are now. And it sucks but male brains are instinctually wired to hunt and therefore, chase.

 

The good news is you're only 3 dates in. Wanna hear a terrible story? Read my post in the 'break up' thread about all of the pain I went through in 15 months of a FWB situation. If I could turn back time and stop seeing him at the first sign of trouble, I absolutely would-- and I'm speaking about a person I was/am still in love with. Meaning I felt a very strong connection with him, still do, believe he has feelings for me (may even also be in love with me) but know for sure he will never treat me right or give me what I need. I made everything too easy for him. People say to appreciate falling in love at all and I'm trying to see the beauty in that, but in the end, I wouldn't wish the pain I went through on my worst enemy. I feel like that's where your situation is headed and please, please save yourself the misery and disappointment.

 

Having said this, I do think you'll hear from him again. What I'd do if I were you is back off myself. Either don't be too available when he tries to make plans or go ahead and make plans, but at the end of the date/whenever it feels right just tell him you got ahead of yourself with the physical stuff and would still enjoy hanging out, but as "friends" for now/or just say you need to cut out the physical stuff for awhile. AND STICK TO IT. It means nothing if you go ahead and make out with him for hours after. He will either: 1) disappear since no more sex, 2) pursue you and try to get you to be sexual with him anyway, 3) or step up to the plate and date you properly. I think the first two scenarios are more likely but hey, I'd love to see the third work out!

 

And to fill your time for now, please read any book by Natalie Lue... especially Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Or read any of the Why Men Love Bitches books. They were EXTREMELY helpful for me after having let myself be emotionally and sexually taken advantage of by someone for over a year. They're what makes me hopeful I'll never allow myself to be in a situation like this again. PM me if you want to and good luck.

Edited September 5, 2014 by lissvarna

[venusishername]

Having said this, I do think you'll hear from him again. What I'd do if I were you is back off myself. Either don't be too available when he tries to make plans or go ahead and make plans, but at the end of the date/whenever it feels right just tell him you got ahead of yourself with the physical stuff and would still enjoy hanging out, but as "friends" for now/or just say you need to cut out the physical stuff for awhile. AND STICK TO IT. It means nothing if you go ahead and make out with him for hours after. He will either: 1) disappear since no more sex, 2) pursue you and try to get you to be sexual with him anyway, 3) or step up to the plate and date you properly. I think the first two scenarios are more likely but hey, I'd love to see the third work out!

 

Thank you so much, Lissvarna, I really appreciate your post and I am truly sorry for what you have been through. You are right about the ego and rejection, although it's not so much of a rejection after all, is it, if we know these guys are into us, right?

I never really have been in that kind of situation before, so I didn't understand when people here would say 'FWB'. I don't want this to become that. I won't let it. I like the guy a lot, but for various reasons obviously he's not emotionally available and/or maybe put off by my sexuality. I was eager and available to him, I see that now. It was hard not to be, I got caught up in the moment and in his aggressive pursuit. I won't be anymore. That's why I haven't reached out this week, even though I'm really hurt I haven't heard yet from him. Five whole days... up until this point it was every two to three days. I thought after great sex it was supposed to accelerate so that's why I had asked if you all thought he'd just do the 'fade out' and never hear from him again. It's happened to me before so I'm afraid of it happening again.

 

If this does continue, I will definitely take your advice. I am now very cautious and he should be the one stepping up to the plate if he wants to see me. It will be very hard to not end it in making out (!) but I have no problem telling him that 'I know we moved quickly with the physical stuff and it was really great, but I want to spend time getting to know you and put that on hold for awhile.' I'm getting ahead of myself here, but I can picture myself saying that and then giving him a sexy kiss to end the night anyway

 

He seems conservative and reserved despite his outward sexual aggressiveness, so I see through the 'smooth player' schtick. I've been with players before who fed me the magic words and talked sexy to me with no substance. I didn't see the same with this guy at all. I mean, I couldn't help but be flattered that he couldn't keep his eyes, hands, etc. off me, but he also has exposed to me his weakness and emotion, with what he's going through with his kids and being away from them. He even said at first that he hoped it didn't scare me off that he's divorced with two kids.

 

 

Thanks again, I hope you are right (in some ways). I would like to at least give this a little more time to see if it's worth investing my time. Like I said, I'm also cautious to get involved with someone seriously again because of what I went through. I'd like to take it slow with someone I can trust and treats me with respect. I'm going to remain open.

[Eighty_nine]

You're welcome, and a kiss at the end of a date is probably is harmless. Hopefully he misses the other stuff and works for it!

[venusishername]

You're welcome, and a kiss at the end of a date is probably is harmless. Hopefully he misses the other stuff and works for it!

 

I have no doubt he would miss it if that's the case.

Off to purchase my copy of 'why men love bitches'.

I swear, the men who prompt women to buy these self-help books should get some kind of royalties

[Zahara]

Have you heard from him?

[venusishername]

Have you heard from him?

 

No. I'd really rather hear the truth than have someone do the dip on me like this. The more time goes by the more I'm thinking I'm not going to hear. I'm in shock right now. I honestly didn't expect this. I want to believe that he's just taking a step back but I can't help but think he may have changed his mind. I wonder at what point I should write this off. A week?

Edited September 6, 2014 by venusishername

[Zahara]

No. I'd really rather hear the truth than have someone do the dip on me like this. The more time goes by the more I'm thinking I'm not going to hear. I'm in shock right now. I honestly didn't expect this.

 

I'm sorry, venus. The last time you saw him was Thursday and then you contacted him last Saturday, yes?

 

Seeing that the weekend is here and he's not even reaching out to make plans or even just to reach out and say something, anything -- I think you really need to start working on emotionally and mentally exiting/detaching. Even if he reaches out tomorrow or the days to come, you really have to pay attention to signs like this.

 

I have to wonder if he is dating other women and he is pre-occupied. As I said, these types are probably not wanting to manage another relationship, so they give you the "I enjoy your company, I'm not looking for a relationship but I still want to see you" -- it doesn't stop them from seeing other women. It's Friday night and the weekend is here.

 

I know it's very upsetting to you. I've been there. But this isn't uncommon. They most likely won't give you the truth. I've experienced the fade out and it's very hurtful.

 

In any case if he does reach out at some point, tread carefully.

[venusishername]

No sooner did I post, he texted me. He said 'I haven't forgotten about you.' His friends in town and he's been on a surf trip this week. That was more than I expected to hear from him and very sweet to reassure me. Haven't responded yet, I'm on way to meet girlfriends. Now what?

Edited September 6, 2014 by venusishername

[Zahara]

You go out with your girlfriends. Tomorrow you can text him and let him know that you hope he had a nice surf trip and enjoyed his week. Leave it at that. I am not sure why if he aggressively pursued you and slept with you, he couldn't at least mention he'll be away for a week on a surf trip when you last talked to him this past Saturday.

 

You make your own plans for the weekend and you go about spending it like he isn't even there. If he wants to see you over the weekend, tell him you already have plans but can do XYZ days.

 

He doesn't get to go silent for a week (no, nothing sweet about "reassuring") -- without even the courtesy of a hello because for damn sure he had his phone and he had every opportunity to make contact. He doesn't get to pick up where he left off just because he's done with his activities and now he has time to revisit you.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Zahara

[sagamore]

No sooner did I post, he texted me. He said 'I haven't forgotten about you.' His friends in town and he's been on a surf trip this week. That was more than I expected to hear from him and very sweet to reassure me. Haven't responded yet, I'm on way to meet girlfriends. Now what?

 

I mean this kindly: your expectations are very low. He's just looking to keep you as a possibility, but he's not going to put forth effort into making this a real relationship. I know it stings to have someone come on so strong and then back away, but this is not about you. It's about him and where he is right now. Don't try to change him, or lower your expectations to meet his. I'd just chalk it up and move on. I'm sorry.

[Polak]

You go out with your girlfriends. Tomorrow you can text him and let him know that you hope he had a nice surf trip and enjoyed his week. Leave it at that.

You make your own plans for the weekend and you go about spending it like he isn't even there. If he wants to see you over the weekend, tell him you already have plans but can do XYZ days.

 

^ I was gonna say the same thing. Have fun with the girls and get to him tomorrow. Don't mention anything that would hint you were anxious about him for the past few days. But from now on if you're going to get together, make it somewhat challenging for him. Make him fit your schedule.

 

He doesn't get to pick up where he left off just because he's done with his activities and now he has time to revisit you.

 

Damn straight he doesn't. You aren't a toy at his disposal! If he wanted to contact you during his surf trip, he would have easily taken a minute out of his day to do so.

[venusishername]

I just responded that I hadn't forgotten about him either and hope he had a great time. An earlier post said I have "low expectations." Isn't that the point?! I don't expect a lot from this at this early stage and I'm not dropping any plans or making myself available to him so easily again. Like I said, I'll give it another chance but cautiously. If he asks to see me I'll just say I'm sorry, but I can't...maybe next week sometime.

 

 

And the last time we saw each other was Sunday, he contacted me today, Friday. I don't expect a man I've known for three weeks and three dates to be moving at full speed and contacting me more often than every couple days. If someone did I think it would scare me off and that's really not what I want right now... even my girlfriends said that tonight because they know where MY head's at. I'm also treading carefully with getting involved with someone and I have a full life with my own things going on. Yes, it would have been nice for him to contact me a bit sooner than five days after we slept together for the first time.

 

 

As far as these 'signs', I don't take it as anything more than face value and sweet that he told me he was thinking about me today and has been legitimately occupied with work and a surf trip, which sounded like it was spontaneous anyway. I'm not making excuses, I'm just taking it at face value and feeling happy (and anxious) about this new development. So I'm going to enjoy it but not have high expectations right off the bat. I think that's the right thing to do!

Edited September 6, 2014 by venusishername

[Zahara]

I think it's a different perspective when we're seeing it with zero emotions and some from experience. You have rose colored glasses on.

 

The thing is, you yourself felt negatively about not hearing from him this long so your reactions are normal because your instincts, are telling you, along with everything we are telling you -- it just isn't right. You even noted last night, "a week?"

 

But the moment he throws you a crumb, you come up with justifications of why and how long he's been gone is now totally acceptable .

 

If it's only been a week, if it's only been three dates over three weeks, if you truly want to take it slow, if you truly had no issues with him being silent -- you wouldn't have stressed about it. No communication wouldn't have shocked you or caused you to feel let down. Deep down, you know something isn't right. Don't adjust/manage your perceptions and expectations to accommodate what he does, what he says and how he acts.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Zahara