dump a bad marriage for an old love?

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by midlifecrazy

You know if it wasn't so sad it would almost be funny. I knew the minute I said it that "sex therapist" was the wrong phrase. Almost like watching an episode of Raymond or King of Queens or something.

 

I can imagine. But you know I can't count the number of times that I wish I could catch my own errant words and stuff them back in my mouth! It's like a slow-motion train wreck.

 

if it comes down to it I really don't see how going to counseling by myself would help. What would they teach me, how to cope?

 

Yes. They can teach you how to cope. Not only in negotiating effectively with your wife, but also in illiciting her interest in joining you at counseling. They can also help you to transition if it all goes to pot.

 

I imagine that if you start first, she'll be inclined to follow....if for no other reason than it'll drive her nuts to know that y'all are talking about her.

 

I started in counseling before my husband was willing to join me. And it took a long while before he was willing to come along. Eventually he did though. I think in part it was because he could see that I was serious about change.

 

I told him straight up that if it came down to me leaving him, that at the very least I'd walk away knowing that I had done EVERYTHING possible. I meant business...and I was putting my money where my mouth was.

 

It can be very satisfying to know that you've done your best. Even if your best fails, you know you went down swinging!

 

Most medical insurance plans have benefits for counseling services these days. A good place to start is by calling your member services hotline and asking for an overview of those benefits. They can also give you a list of preferred providers in your area.

[Lil Honey]

Originally posted by midlifecrazy

she said (looking as if I had just suggested having sex with farm animals)

Sorry, but this is too funny. I'm still chuckling. At least you haven't lost your sense of humor . . .

 

she "wanting it all the time. I've talked to people. they don't do that"

It sounds like there has been a need for compromise that was never communicated.

 

[quote}he: "women?"

 

she: "men too"

 

he: 'I can't help being who I am. What am I supposed to do?"

PHFT! Everyone is different, that's why there needs to be compromise.

 

she: "well if I don't make you happy I guess you'd better get a divorce and go find somebody who can"

I have personally had this (sick and twisted, yes I know) feeling that I'd rather my husband had an affair so I would have a "reason" to get a divorce. That would keep me from looking like "the bad guy" for getting a divorce for reasons that no one else would understand. Maybe she is telling you to get the divorce, so others don't see her as "the bad guy" in the relationship. She also may think she is avoiding a guilt feeling if YOU do the divorcing . . .

 

PS I'm not promoting or discouraging you to divorce at all. Lord knows . . . I've been in your shoes and I made a decision that I felt I could live with.

[Mz. Pixie]

MLC-

 

Yes, saying sex therapist was a bad idea...............

 

I have kind of been where your wife is too. Except I was the one suggesting counseling. When I would ask my x for intimacy he would say, "We just need to have sex more" I tried that and that didn't work.

 

Can I ask a few questions from her perspective?? Do you tell your wife she is beautiful? Do you attempt to touch her and caress her without it turning into sex? Do you interact with her on a emotional level?? Do you kiss her and not just a peck on the lips or cheek?? I probably went a year or more without kissing my H- I asked for it all the time and he never did it- unless he was interested in sex. I sure didn't want to meet his needs for sex when he refused to meet mine!

So, there you go- it's a vicious cycle of spite and miscommunication!

 

Counseling will help you- you just do not see that you have some issues to own up to in this marriage as well. I didn't think I did either but IC showed me that I did.

 

My bf went to counseling alone when his wife bailed on their marriage because she'd been having an affair for 18 months. It has helped him tremendously- he is ALL about communication. Even if you guys don't make it- it may help you recover and down the line be ready for a better relationship.

 

Guys who communicate, who put their wives first, who take care of their wives needs, and are open, intimate and considerate are what any woman would want. And believe, me they would get plenty of sex!!!! Perhaps you've gotten away from that a bit?

[midlifecrazy]

Mz Pixie Yes I tell her how attractive she is and kiss and caress her without always expecting it to lead to sex. I was thinking earlier how kind of odd it seemed, guys always hear about how women want to be cuddled etc. I'd settle for that a lot of the time. With us it seems to be you scratch my back and I'll go to sleep.

 

Kissing? hell I'd love just to put in some quality kissing time. She just doesn't seem to get into it with her being the one to prefer the peck and run.

So unfortunately the more often I get put off the less inclined I am to keep trying.

 

As I've said before this lack of intimacy has plagued basically our entire marriage. When we were raising kids with her the kids absolutely came first to her and I accepted that as the way it should be thinking that eventually we would have our time. I do feel I tried to keep the romance alive but when you feel no appreciation of or reciprocation for your efforts you eventually begin to wind down.

 

About sex, I don't want duty sex or guilt sex or anything like that, What I want is someone to be as passionate about me as I am them and to truly enjoy giving me physical pleasure as much as I do them.

 

That being said I'd like to take a quick poll to find out if maybe she's right and I am completely off the wall. How often would you think a couple late 40s early 50s should be making love? Please don't give an esoteric answer like as often as they both feel comfortable etc. Think about it and try to come up with a reasonable number.

[moimeme]

if maybe she's right and I am completely off the wall

 

No. The answer to your question is that the couple should negotiate a schedule that suits them both. And her 'never' does not trump your 'once in a while at least please'.

 

I don't get why everybody's made you the criminal here. Quit talking to this bunch and go see the counsellor. I'm betting right here right now that either she'll not go or else the counsellor will recommend divorce after seeing you both.

 

But if you stay here, you'll just end up in the same hole you've been in for 30 years since you've got a bunch of people joining your wife in saying you're the wrong one, and you're believing them. I suggest you call a counsellor ASAP and don't post again until you've seen him or her for your own sanity's sake.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by moimeme

But if you stay here, you'll just end up in the same hole you've been in for 30 years since you've got a bunch of people joining your wife in saying you're the wrong one, and you're believing them.

 

He's had 30 years to leave this woman. If that was truly what he wanted more than anything else.....I doubt that he'd have let the door slap him in the a$$ by now.

 

It's just possible that in 30 years time, he'd have managed to find the door if that is indeed what he wanted. And he wouldn't have come to LS looking for validation either, he'd have just left.

 

The fact that he's here at all tells us something. I think that even though this man is really angry and really frustrated.... his first choice would probably still be his wife. I think that like most of us, he wants to walk through this world each day assured in the fact that his partner loves him more than ANYTHING else. I think he'd dearly like to have the freedom to love her in a way that was unreserved and accepted and to be loved that way in turn.

 

If he says otherwise, I'll shut up and I won't post another word to him.

 

Originally posted by midlifecrazy...

About sex, I don't want duty sex or guilt sex or anything like that, What I want is someone to be as passionate about me as I am them and to truly enjoy giving me physical pleasure as much as I do them.

 

See, I totally get that. I didn't before, but I understand it now. If Midlife reads the thread that I linked him to before, he'll see that it's like a lightbulb moment.

 

If I can understand that, I have complete faith that anyone who really wants to, can understand it as well. I don't have any special-understanding-super-powers. I'm pretty average, all things considered.

 

And I may have been the first in my marriage to seek MC, but I went into it convinced that I was right, and my husband was wrong. It wasn't even a possibility in my mind to begin with that it could be otherwise. And yet, in the face of my own stubbornness, I still got it eventually.

 

Moose posted this yesterday on another thread:

Wow! You have just told EVERYONE what my marriage was like the first 5 or 6 years! Almost down to a perfect tee! The only difference is that I've always held down a job, and hard work never bothered me. What you're going through has been dealt with before. I know this for a fact! Mrs. Moose and I never went to counceling, but events in my life caused us to look at things a bit differently.

 

There were some things that I needed in my life, (recgonition, respect, sex), and things that Mrs. Moose needed in her life, (Security, Companionship, trust), that we weren't giving each other. It's not that we didn't want to, or refused to, it's just we didn't know HOW to.

 

I noticed you said that you two have been to counceling. But have you heard of the five love languages? If not, this book should help you to understand more about what your husband is seeking, and how to deliver it, and same goes for him.

 

My love language is physical touch. I feel more confident, and respected when Mrs. Moose shows me PDA, holds my hand, sits next to me on the couch and drapes her legs over mine, kisses me goodbye, and tells me she loves me when we part or hang up the phone. She's making deposits in my, "Love Bank", when she does those things. That way, it's easier for me to pat attention to her, "love language", which is gifts.

 

When I first found out that her love language was gifts, I blew a gasket! I thought, "great! now I'm gonna have to spend more money, everyday, just to make withdrawls from my love bank!" But that's not what gifts meant. WHEW! Anyway, I leave little notes all over the house, I send her to a day spa once every 2 months, I bring home or send flowers periodically, buy her rings, take her to dinner.....things like that.

 

It really works! Find out what your love languages are, and how to give eachother these things to brighten up your relationship. It really helped my self esteem issues, and at the same time, it did wonders for Mrs. Moose's libido! It's not that you don't want to please your husband, it's lack of the right motivation.

 

Most of that is based on The Five Love Languages by Chapman. I think in many cases, we're not speaking the same love language. Mrs. Midlife is probably not getting what she needs in the relationship in order to feel loved. If her Love Tank is empty, how is she going to reciprocate?

 

I hadn't read this book when I had my epiphany, but my Love Tank was already full, because I had already been receiving the Words of Affirmation that are my love language.

 

Personally, I don't think there's any one book or one program that will get a couple back to reconciliation. I think you could read, or do almost anything...and if you're heart is in it, you'll get at least some progress. It's mostly about opening up to the other person's POV, and then accepting it, and them.

 

Once you've accepted your spouse whole-heartedly, they can then accept you for who you are. And once you're dealing with each other from a state of acceptance....you can start to prioritize the other person's needs as if they were your own. When that is MUTUAL....it's a beautiful thing.

 

Midlifecrazy has had 30 years to leave, if that's what he wanted to do. He hasn't. I don't think he needs any of us to screw up his courage and push him out the door. And if leaving isn't his first choice, then I think he owes it to himself to at least explore the possibilities. After 30 years, what's another 6 months?

 

p.s. In answer to your poll question:

That being said I'd like to take a quick poll to find out if maybe she's right and I am completely off the wall. How often would you think a couple late 40s early 50s should be making love? Please don't give an esoteric answer like as often as they both feel comfortable etc. Think about it and try to come up with a reasonable number.

 

This won't matter if you're relationship becomes reconciled....because as a problem, it'll cease to exist. It'll become more natural.

 

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say about twice a week.

 

For women, the more the better. Once the love goddess gets out.... the more action she gets, the more testosterone she'll have available. Be aware though that if you're dealing with any kind of menopausal state, her hormones could be a little out of whack. It might be something she should discuss with her GYN.

[midlifecrazy]

Moi I think I'll keep posting for a while. It really is helpful to me to hear a variety of viewpoints. Seems to help me think things through and I'm thick skinned enough to take the criticism. And have been some eye opening comments and decent advice. Will someone clarify for for me what IC is? I get MC as marriage counseling.

 

Ladyj yes for whatever reason, love, affection, a life shared together, inertia, fear of the unknown or just plain laziness I would prefer to stay with my wife. It sure as hell would be easier than the alternative.

 

However I think things to have to change. You notice how this thread has evolved? The subject about old flames and affairs has pretty much vanished to be replaced with a discussion about the relationship between my wife and me.

I was not on the brink of an affair but I was meandering that way. I feel that I've taken a step back from the edge now.

 

But if somehow I can't start feeling some intimacy in our marriage I know that eventually I'll end up straying outside of it. Then of course that will be a mess and I'll end up divorced and blamed for it.

 

Six months more to work on it sounds reasonable. I think I'll know a lot sooner than that if there is any hope but if it's a lost cause it will probably take us that long to get our ducks in a row.

 

I think my wife right now is like one of those people who live on the slopes of Vesuvius. You know that one day it's going to blow and wipe out everything for miles around but you don't give it much thought in your day to day life. Oh sure it rumbles and belches smoke every once and awhile and makes you a little nervous but it always settles back down. It's never going to erupt, not in your lifetime. Why it's just impossible.

 

I'm going to reserve comment on the "sex poll" until hopefully I get a little more feedback.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by midlifecrazy

 

However I think things to have to change.

 

Yes, you're right. Things have to change. Your wife is not fully aware of that fact yet. Your analogy was correct, she's living blindly on the slopes of Vesuvius. Your mission becomes to wake her up to the danger she is in.

 

One of the reasons why I just couldn't see my husband's POV was that he was very frustrated and angry. He was giving me the information. He was telling me how he felt. But it was all mixed up in YELLING and sarcastic responces.

 

It's like he was speaking GREEK. I just couldn't understand him. I was content, why wasn't he?

 

He'd say things at times that he didn't really mean in an effort to hurt my feelings, because his feelings were being hurt. I see that now, but at the time I thought he was just being an a*hole.

 

I would, of course, just blow off the entire interchange. It was obvious to me that he didn't really mean all the things he was saying. The problem was...that I was missing the important information by throwing it out with the garbage.

 

It's unfortunate, but most of us don't think to make a study of the marital relationship until it is compromised by crisis. Some of us don't even notice our danger until the whole thing is completely FUBAR and it's over.

 

It's in crisis that we find websites like LS, or books like The Five Love Languages. You have the advantage here, believe it or not, because you've recognized the crisis before it was too late.

 

I think maybe you might start by going to the library or bookstore and getting a book or two on marriage. There are alot of them on the market. The above-mentioned 5 Love Languages, His Needs / Her Needs by Harley, Relationship Rescue by Dr. Phil, are just a few. They're all variations on a theme of course, and the whole idea is to give you some tips on getting the communications ball rolling, and looking at each other's POV.

 

There's ALOT that one partner can do to get the process started. These books will help you to see that, and will give you some ideas on how to elicit her interest in working on the relationship. Eventually, the effort must be MUTUAL....initially it does not.

 

IC means individual counseling. I think MC is best for you, even if started alone. The object is to get your wife involved. I think you should consider starting it.

 

Most medical insurance companies offer benefits on counseling. You can get an outline of those benefits as well as a list of preferred providers by calling the customer service number printed on your insurance card.

 

But if somehow I can't start feeling some intimacy in our marriage I know that eventually I'll end up straying outside of it. Then of course that will be a mess and I'll end up divorced and blamed for it.

 

The option to divorce is always available to you. Use it if necessary. But don't cheat in your marriage. Divorce is easy in this country. And easier to live with than compromising your integrity.

 

If you've exhausted your other options, then you'll be free to use that one in good conscience.

 

Start with reading. Then approach your wife again. Let her know that you want more than anything to repair the relationship, and that you are on a quest to learn how to do that. Don't argue with her. Don't beg for her participation. Don't lay out any ultimatums. Don't withhold if she asks questions, but if she doesn't express interest....

 

Let her be curious to see what you'll do next.

 

See, she already thinks she knows what your motives are. She thinks it's all about your sexual agenda. She's not going to believe anything else right now anyway. You can gently assure her that it's not so, but if she doesn't aggree....don't fight with her about it.

 

There's nothing to be gained in negative interactions at this time. So, don't be drawn into an arguement.

[moimeme]

because you've recognized the crisis before it was too late.

 

!

[midlifecrazy]

Well I knew I wasn't the Lone Ranger in a situation like this but when I followed some of these links and reading other people's posts,holy crap! Us frustrated hubbies ought to have a union. There is so much out there that describes closely or exactly my predicament and feelings

 

The book about the 5 languages of love sounds really interesting. I know that like Moose and probably most other guys my language is physical touch. And that's where I'm being starved to death. I need to read up on the others. I always thought I was communicating my love to my wife by telling her so, touching her (without it being a come on for sex) (at least not always) and trying to take care of her,

 

Now I think maybe her love language is actually gifts. Who knew there could be such a thing? I mean I always remember all the traditional stuff birthdays, anniversary etc., but didn't bring her a lot of gifts without a special occasion. As I think back on the times I did I realize that it really seemed to please her. And the big battle I mentioned before was actually on Valentine's day.

 

It started over what I guess she perceived as an inadequate Valentine's day gift. It wasn't like I had stopped at the gas station and picked her up a window scraper. I actually thought she'd like it. Men are really like little boys sometimes in this respect I think. We craft our little tokens and then go trotting merrily off to present them to the object of our affections. The worst thing that can happen is when they take token, spurn it and throw it the trash. It's like the most intimate kind of personal attack and once in awhile it hurts so bad we can't help ourselves and fire back. Women whether or not they realize really have all the emotional power in a relationship.

 

But anyway, before I make anymore "sex therapist" gaffes I'm going to bounce some things around here before I put them into play.

 

LadyJ, Moi anyone else who cares to comment. Dr Phil has a website with an online relationship test on it. I've taken it. Good idea or bad idea to get on there sometime and casually suggest to my wife that she take it? It would be interesting to see how she rates our marriage.

[moimeme]

If you are doing the 'try every possible thing before you give up' thing, then by all means ask her to take the test. You can also go buy Dr. Phil's Relationship Rescue and ask her to do that with you, too. There are other good marriage resources as well. Steve Harley has some great stuff. I also vote for Chapman's Love Languages.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by midlifecrazy

The book about the 5 languages of love sounds really interesting. I know that like Moose and probably most other guys my language is physical touch. And that's where I'm being starved to death. I need to read up on the others. I always thought I was communicating my love to my wife by telling her so, touching her (without it being a come on for sex) (at least not always) and trying to take care of her.

 

This was a really interesting book. I hope both you and your wife will read it. It's not the be all and end all of relationship building, but it's a damn good start.

 

I thought my husband would be a "Physical Touch" person too. But weirdly enough, and after having a really tough time pinning him down....he's a "Quality Time" guy. Sex is already pretty much a given in determining your love language if you're a guy. For my husband, sex is just another aspect of spending quality time together. The tip-off is that it is the MOST aggravating thing in his relationship with me, when he feels that I'm too busy for him, or not listening to him.

 

It was EASY for him to figure out my love language, which is "Words of Affirmation", because once he started thinking about what had the most negative effect on me, he could see that any kind of criticism drove me away from him.

 

Now you can see the pattern. He wasn't getting his need for quality time met, and then would criticize and nitpick because he was unhappy. The more unhappy and critical he became...the further I removed myself from him, and the LESS quality time he actually got.

 

Imagine what that did to our sex life!

 

Now I think maybe her love language is actually gifts. Who knew there could be such a thing? I mean I always remember all the traditional stuff birthdays, anniversary etc., but didn't bring her a lot of gifts without a special occasion. As I think back on the times I did I realize that it really seemed to please her. And the big battle I mentioned before was actually on Valentine's day.

 

I would have thought this about my husband initially, because he makes a big deal about gift-giving occasions, but surprisingly, gifts are not his love language. He usually returns whatever I buy him.

 

According to Chapman, if the love language is gifts, they are almost always received with delight. She wouldn't be critical of your gift if this was her love language.

 

 

Dr Phil has a website with an online relationship test on it. I've taken it. Good idea or bad idea to get on there sometime and casually suggest to my wife that she take it? It would be interesting to see how she rates our marriage.

 

There are some good on-line resources, and if your wife is open to trying some questionaires with you, then go for it. Don't be disappointed if she doesn't share your enthusiasm right at the moment.

 

I liked your "Vesuvius" analogy earlier. Keep in mind while you're dealing with her, that she is really BLIND right now to the need for change. You'll need to be thick-skinned for a while. You'll get your feelings hurt, otherwise. Until her lightbulb moment, it'll be 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. You can't count on her active participation in the process until then.

 

It's early days.

 

[midlifecrazy]

Ok, so there's physical touch,gifts, quality time and words of affirmation which sounds like what I thought I was using. I know I need to read the book but what's the fifth one?

 

I suppose it's possible that she could combine aspects of a couple of different ones. Maybe I'm married to "high dollar Hannah" who only wants top drawer, high ticket gifts. If that's the case we might as well chuck it in now because Diamond Jim Brady I ain't unfortunately. I don't think that's the case though. I know there was some other stuff going on that she was stressed about at the time and I may have just been the easiest target.

 

Saturday I suggested a date night. We don't go out much by ourselves just to have fun and we've have an adult child whose circumstances have forced to move back in with us. We never seem to have time for ourselves. Anyway the kid was taking off for the weekend so I thought it might be nice to go out. Well that got sunk because we had grandkids coming to spend the night. I haven't had a chance to talk to my wife about it but I want to say to her that we need some time for us. Should I or will she think "oh, he just wants some again".

 

The other thing that goes through my mind is that if I do all this, bend over backward to try to make her happy and it still doesn't work. She never reciprocates and tries to make me happy and I finally feel I have to walk away. Won't after all the attention to her it come as an even greater shock and hurt her even deeper that it's over. I know that at that point I probably shouldn't care anymore but I truly don't want to cause her unnecessary pain.

[Moose]

midlivecrazy, I commend you for doing this. It really sounds to me that you are truly trying everything! The five love languages are:

 

1. Words of Affirmation

2. Receiving Gifts

3. Quality Time

4. Acts of Service

5. Physical Touch

 

As far as the date night thing goes. I say go for it. AND, when you do approach her, make it clear that you want to this for her, without any expectations from her whatsoever. Tell her that, "tonight, it's all about you babe". Or if you feel so inclined, find her a day spa, and treat her to that. This way, it really is all about her and your desire to make her feel special.

 

There are all kinds of suggestions I can give you. But ultimatley, you are going to have to find out from her which love language best suits Mrs. MLC. Keep posting, and ask away!

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by midlifecrazy

Ok, so there's physical touch,gifts, quality time and words of affirmation which sounds like what I thought I was using. I know I need to read the book but what's the fifth one?

 

The fifth one is "Acts of Service", whereby a person feels loved by their partner in the things the other one does for them.....things like making a sandwich for them, or scrubbing out the toilet bowl so that they don't have to do it. People whose primary love language is "Acts of Service" will feel all warm and fuzzy and loved when you do these things. All of us appreciate our partner doing these things, but Acts of love people need it to feel full.

 

I suppose it's possible that she could combine aspects of a couple of different ones.

 

It's possible that a person may be a combination, but usually you can nail in down to one primary love language. Let's face it, we'd all like to have all of those aspects in our relationship. But it's a difference of needs and wants. What does a person need to feel loved?

 

I like it when my husband does the laundry. But I don't NEED him to do it.

 

Saturday I suggested a date night. We don't go out much by ourselves just to have fun and we've have an adult child whose circumstances have forced to move back in with us. We never seem to have time for ourselves. Anyway the kid was taking off for the weekend so I thought it might be nice to go out. Well that got sunk because we had grandkids coming to spend the night. I haven't had a chance to talk to my wife about it but I want to say to her that we need some time for us. Should I or will she think "oh, he just wants some again".

 

She'll think you just "want some" again. Don't let that discourage you though. Ask her anyhow.

 

It'll take time for her to see that your goal is saving the marriage. Like I said to you earlier, you're going to have to be thick-skinned for awhile.....that is, if you want to try to reconcile the marriage. You're free to throw in the towel anytime you want, if that's what you truly want to do. It's your choice, and no one can make it for you.

 

It took you and your wife 30 years to empty your bucket of love. It's got to be replaced one drop at a time....and that takes awhile.

 

Let her know that you're on a marriage-building quest. Reiterate that it in NOT just about sex, but rather that you are altogether unhappy in the relationship.

 

This doesn't have to be accusatory. It can be presented in the total opposite, as in "I don't know what I'm doing wrong, that displeases you, and makes you NOT want to be close with me. And I'm thinking that maybe you don't really know either, so I want us to both find out together." Taking a position in which you are the exact opposite of adversarial, will go far in disarming her before an arguement can ensue.

 

Ultimately, what you are trying to accomplish is to let her know that change is in the wind. Big things are about to happen. Keep it short, and to the point. You won't change her mind in this one opening salvo....so don't try.

 

The other thing that goes through my mind is that if I do all this, bend over backward to try to make her happy and it still doesn't work. She never reciprocates and tries to make me happy and I finally feel I have to walk away. Won't after all the attention to her it come as an even greater shock and hurt her even deeper that it's over. I know that at that point I probably shouldn't care anymore but I truly don't want to cause her unnecessary pain.

 

I think you'd both feel worse actually, if it came out of the blue. You'd feel like you never gave her a chance to rectify her mistakes. And she would never truly understand why you left.

 

At some point, you'll have to let her know that it's "make it, or break it time". Not yet though. The time for ultimatum would certainly come before you walked out, and give her a last ditch opportunity to get serious in the process.

 

For right now, if you can elicit her cooperation without resorting to ultimatums, you'll get more compliance without triggering resentment.

 

Pick up a copy of that book, today if possible. I think you'd get some good ideas on how to proceed with initiating communications with her. I'm also interested in hearing your thoughts once you've read it.

 

 

p.s. I'm not trying to influence your decision on this. As I said earlier, I don't know you, so it's not affecting my life either way. I'm just trying to give you some options, not trying to twist your arm.

[midlifecrazy]

I truly appreciate everyone's comments. The more the better. I'm kind of using this as a poor man's group therapy (gotta watch that word) with me getting all the therapy right now. It's good to hear how people who have BTDT have handled it. And maybe someone else who is in the same spot I am right now can benefit from my story.

 

I don't take divorce lightly as is obvious, I think, by the fact that I AM still here. If we break up it will be a major, major deal to me, one of if not the most significant events in my life. Maybe even more so than originally getting married.

 

So I'll begin the last campaign. We'll either fix it or end it. I don't think if I'm unhappy and resentful I can make anyone else truly happy. Either I break through her shell or she breaks out. If that sounds like I'm blaming her I'm sorry but I'm not. If we make it, great! If we don't, well it won't be for lack of effort

 

I'll keep you posted.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by midlifecrazy

I'll keep you posted.

 

Please do. The "campaign" might be a tough one, but I think you'll probably be glad that you tried, regardless of the outcome.

 

When I began my campaign, part of the impetus was sympathy for my husband. I didn't think he'd be happy without me, not in the long run. Sounds egotistical to say it out loud. But he's invested many years of his life with me and our family. I think that even if he'd had a really great time fooling around for awhile....he'd have eventually felt the loss.

 

People who are long-married are bonded in a familial way. Even if he had divorced me, some part of him would ALWAYS consider me to be his wife. I think he would have become embittered by that in time.

[midlifecrazy]

Ladyj I think I've had my "epiphany" or at least a flicker of it. I have the Chapman book on the way to me from Amazon. Reading your and Moose's descriptions of the 5 languages I realized that while I think I know hers I'm not certain. Solution? Hit her with all of them until I find the "right" one.

 

I'm going to give her a broadside of love and attention that hopefully will blow her out of the water. I got to thinking that I should treat her like this was the FIRST time we'd met and I was determined to have her. Ready to do anything to make her love me.

 

I admit, I've taken her as much for granted as she has me. But the only one I can definetly change is me. I'm going to try to make her life pure friggin' bliss for awhile without a hint of a sexual come on. If she wants to make love I'll take what she's willing to give me and be grateful and and happy with it. For the time being.

 

I've already started my "love program" on her and perhaps see the first faint beginning of a positive reaction.

 

The way I figure it she's got to be a happy camper before she wants anyone else crawling in the sleeping bag with her.

[Moose]

Man, do I love it when hear posts like this!

[Ladyjane14]

Very 'gung ho' post Midlife. That has me a little concerned for you, because the path is strewn with disappointments and setbacks. I just want you to be prepared. Like I told you before, it's 2-steps forward, and 3-steps back for awhile.

 

I suspect that you've been on the outside, looking in for a loooong time now. Your wife has been occupying her day-to-day life with other people, first her children and now her grandchildren and friends.

 

As our relationships struggle, we tend to distance ourselves from our partner. Interaction has been unpleasant and negative in the past; we tend to avoid it. It's going to take time for her to learn to prioritize you again in her daily habits. It'll take time to develop NEW habits.

 

Originally posted by midlifecrazy

If she wants to make love I'll take what she's willing to give me and be grateful and and happy with it. For the time being.

 

Do accept this as the gift it is meant to be. I realize that it's not just the sexual act that a man wants from his wife. He wants passion. He wants the to feel his wife's love in the sexual act. I understand that because I've already had my epiphany. Your wife will not be able to distinguish the difference immediately. Her love tank needs to be full first. Then maybe she might LEARN to understand your POV.

 

I read an interesting post this morning from a lady who verbalizes very well the emotional side of sexual avoidance. It might help you to read it. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t58389/

 

If your wife attempts to fulfill your EN for sex, and her attempt is rather clumsy....your best bet is still to recognize the effort and reward it accordingly. I'm in the BTDT club on this, and sometimes, just trying is the BEST you can do. A lackluster performance in the bedroom, is truly not meant as an insult.

 

Good luck.

[midlifecrazy]

A report from the "love campaign" front for any still interested in this saga. I got the Chapman book and am in the process of reading it. Maybe I haven't got to this part yet, but I'm wondering how you're supposed to fill up someone else's "love tank" when yours is running on empty?

 

I'm trying though and yes it is early. I bought her strawberries and chocolates the other night and a glass of wine. She seemed surprised but pleased. Then I offered her a glass of wine the next evening and she turned it down. I've tried to be supportive and non-critical of her. I'm given her kisses, hugs and lots of backrubs (at her request and not as a sexual overture).

 

One morning a kiss became a rather nice makeout session and it looked like it was going someplace. She started getting herself "warmed up" as is her routine and I and the old "baseball" analogy gave her a hand at "third base". I'm pretty sure she got off. Then the phone rang, she got up and answered it and talked for 15 to 20 minutes. When she came back her mood had passed and I was left hanging (wrong word, but you know what I mean). I didn't complain or say anything.

 

I know it's early, only been a week really but I feel kind of like that guy on the TV commercial. The one who weighs himself on a scale then runs around the room, weighs himself again and then smacks the scale. It looks like a long road ahead.

 

OK, on the sex poll thing, looks like LadyJ is the only participant. I like your estimate Ladyj (are you SURE you're taken?) Twice a week would be just dandy.

From some of the research I've done I think it's probably pretty close to being right. I've seen a few numbers slightly higher and a few slightly lower so I'd say it's a good average.

 

A few months ago I told my wife about one of the lower figures I'd found. They say the hearing goes first as you age. That must be the case with my poor old gal. She said, "Then what are you complaining about? I give it to you 6 to 8 times a year."

 

She's right, but the number I told her was 68. True story.

[Moose]

She's right, but the number I told her was 68. True story.

Maybe she heard, "six ta eight a year".

[midlifecrazy]

Moose, re-read the paragraph before that quote. I said the hearing goes first.

[Moose]

I know, that's why I posted what I did.....just funnin' with ya.

[midlifecrazy]

OIC, you GOT it! LOL (gotta be able to laugh a little bit)