The 11th Hour and D-Day is coming: Admissions of Fear

[bathtub-row]

There's a post in this section entitled "how did you transition from an affair to a normal relationship" - or something along those lines. There are several answers there but the thing that struck me the most is how much happier the kids are in these situations. Kids pick up on the negativity between parents and it can affect them. If you leave, there's a good chance that your kids will be mad at you for awhile. You have to believe in your actions. Everyone else will adjust if you have conviction about what you're doing.

 

When I was a kid, I grew up in a very strict religion. The worst part of that religion is that everyone - family included - will disown you if you leave the religion. Well, in my mid-20's, I wanted out and I left the religion. It took me 2 yrs to make that decision but, once I did, I never looked back. My parents weren't happy about it, to say the least. Plus, I left my marriage at the same time. This was a double whammy. But that was many years ago and, guess what? My parents got over it. I lost numerous friends that I had known for years, not to mention 2 out of 3 of my sisters, plus aunts, uncles and cousins. It was simply the hardest decision of my life. At the same time, I absolutely could not continue living my life the way I was. I had to change things and I figured if people who loved me couldn't accept that, then so be it. Granted, my situation is different than yours but I guess what I'm saying is that the big changes that we need to make are rarely easy.

 

I can't tell you what you should or should not do. Only you know the circumstances. All I'm saying is that you continue to stray in your marriage and this is an incredibly bad precedent. There must be a reason you're doing that and it's either because you're just, by nature, a cheater, or you're incredibly unhappy in your marriage.

 

In the other post I talked about, I liked one of the responses as to how they handled things. No one knew about the affair and they didn't even meet the other's kids for about two years. The logic being that they had years to be together so why push things. This is why I tell people not to expose the affair. It makes things much harder down the road. If you're going to leave, just leave. Your wife is already aware there are problems. Leave it at that.

 

If you're not going to leave, then get fully on board with your marriage and stop the cheating 100%. If that thought makes you ill, you need to exit that relationship. If it makes you happy, then by all means stay.

 

The biggest thing is that you need to stop riding the fence. It's a very immature way to handle things. Decide what you really want and let everything else fall into place.

Edited September 1, 2014 by bathtub-row

[conflictedlove]

Like others have said, it also made me cringe to read that your plan is to continue to future fake with your OW and then gradually let her go once she gets a D. What do you think when you read that back? Not attacking you, just curious if that sounds like a good plan or incredibly cruel or what?

 

It sounds like the only thing you learned from your first A was that you can get away with it all, from keeping your wife from finding out to extracting yourself from the OW after she leaves her H. Thus, you're repeating the exact same behavior now, assuming it will all work out like that again.

 

To me, you don't sound like you love your OW at all. Not in this post or the others before. You also don't sound like you want to leave the comforts of your M. Based on those 2 premises alone, I would end things with your OW now before you press your luck any further and this all blows up in your face.

 

Well no, I'm about future faking just for the sake of it.

 

2 years and this A has yielded what no one could expect....a way of escape for 2 people in marriages that may not be ideal. mow and i both mention future events. She is more aggressive when speaking of her H and how much she's not fond of him. Then other days she talks about the future and both him and her. It's happened a couple of times so I keep my guard up.

 

Am I wrong for keeping the future faking convo going as long as she does and yet still talks about events in 2015 involving him? I too, when i think about my w don't exactly feel like we are an amazing pair, let alone an ideal pair. yet I feel bad for her knowing she'd be completely lost and would end up like an ex old gf of mine did....dating and not knowing what was out there and getting run over by so many men. Eventually tried to get back with me but it can't work after that. I fear that for my w since she's not just a gf..she's the mother of my kids and i can see her blindly making all kind of mistakes in her life. I feel obligated and guilty. That's the truth and shoot me for being honest.

 

As for mow, she swings on emotions and when she's ready to tell her h she's done, i believe she's ready to do it at that moment. Then the moment passes and she's settled.

 

i know she would leave him for me at a moment's notice when the emotion is right. she has things on him that he will have to be amicable or else he looks like a bad guy.

 

i just see my young kids being crushed by seeing their mother lost and hurt beyond repair. I see them not being settled and having a hard time with all of this.

 

I do have a question through all this.....and i have this major anxiety about it...what are the odds of AP's actually working out LTR? I just have a hard time seeing it go LTR. I want to, mow wants to, but the odds feel so stacked up against us and knowing that my w and kids are going to be crushed keeps me up at night.

 

Lastly, who here on LS actually can speak to the risks and rewards of keeping the A in the state of an A (which mow won't do long term, i know this for sure) or even AP's getting married and it actually working out. what about the kids who get left behind in all this?

[conflictedlove]

Why didn't you learn last time? Sorry to say it but your wife deserves better. She is loyal this is the second time you've cheated on her. She deserves someone to love her and not be there out of guilt.

 

In many ways I believe you are right. Yes, this is my 2nd time. Yes, I am wiht her partly out of guilt. She appears to be loyal but one never knows right?

 

I've treated my wife like a child at times. I make all the decisions. It gets to be wearing and i don't think she can manage on her own if i did vacate.

 

I know i'm not the only mom who has been conflicted over an A. My mow is putting more pressure on us. She's telling me she can't wait much longer. I can see it. She wants to get the ball started on our relationship. Her h is dependent on her too for all decision making however its not the same as a woman in that same situation.

 

I know that i can't continue to have an A and live my life as H and father to my kids. mow needs so much of me that it divides my attention. its time i need to pull back and figure out how the heck did it get this far.

[conflictedlove]

No way will this work out for you two. Your W and her H will fight nail and tooth to have full custody and make sure those kids aren't caught up in this, no way is it healthy to all of a sudden throw your children and hers, into this mix, change up their lives and immediately have new step parents to deal with. If you and your MOW want to be together, each of you tell your spouses the truth. Just come clean. It's obvious you're not in love with your wife anymore, 2 affairs already and your foot is out the door.

 

It's so easy to say all this and make a plan to be together, but each of you more than likely can't look your spouses in the eye and come clean. Let THEM decide what they want. You've been living a lie for 10 years, and your MOW has lived a lie for 2 years.

 

Get counseling because when this blows up, there will be a lot of hurt people, especially the innocent kids in this situation.

 

This really makes me sad. I know there are elements of truth to what you are saying. Piercing is the first think that comes to my mind. truth but still painful.

 

you are correct though..i know i could never look my w in the eye and tell her. no way. not going to happen. id rather her leave me and that's not going to happen anytime soon. she's accepting of this half baked marriage. While on the other hand, mow demands all of me. i understand and get it.

 

the problem i face now.....its a dark dark place.....that i go to.....seems ive looked back and noticed even from my GF days....i think i've cheated a few times. i don't know why. maybe the excitement of loving someone new? the thrill of the chase? kissing lips i never thought i could? who knows......all i know is my biggest fear is that if mow and i got together..she could do the same thing to me and vice versa. the risk with mow seems beyond high

[conflictedlove]

There are plenty of people who have great relationships after an affair but yours probably won't be one of them. Mainly due to the fact that you're just screwing around on your wife and have no interest in having a life with the OW. It would completely shock your OW to learn that the idea of leaving your wife never once occurred to you until she brought it up.

 

The biggest mistake your OW has made - aside from having an affair with you - is driving this situation to the point that she has, without letting you be the one to bring it up and suggest it. Most men aren't man enough to tell a woman no so, in classic style, you're letting her go through the motions, letting her believe that you're on board with this idea. You need to tell her immediately that you have no plans to leave your wife. There is no easy way out of this now that you have allowed her to believe something that isn't true.

 

One thing you apparently didn't learn from your previous affair is that women are much more likely to leave a marriage than a man is. Men are usually more happy just to cheat and stay where they are. The reasons for this are simple -- a man's identity is often tied up with his money, reputation, and how well he provides for his family. Women don't think this way. Their happiness is tied more to relationships -- how happy they are in them, the quality of them, etc. Hence, it's more natural for a woman to be driven toward a potential happy relationship, where men are driven by other factors.

 

I have a relative who's married to a complete monster. Yet he won't leave her because of their 3 kids. What he doesn't realize is that the fights and hatred between him and his wife are ruining their kids. It's truly pitiful. Yet, he stays. I see this all the time.

 

I don't think the questions you're asking are relevant since you have no desire to leave your marriage. All of those questions would have different answers if your frame of mind were different, but it's not. I raised a son mostly by myself and, without fail, at least one teacher would tell me that they couldn't believe he was from a divorced family. The reason for that was because my ex and I didn't fight with one another around our son, among other things. But don't get me wrong, I don't like being around him but we both knew how to be adults around our son and around others. If you walk away believing you're destroying your kids and that they'll hate you, that's exactly what will happen. You have to walk away from your marriage knowing you're doing the right thing, and because you don't feel that way, it would be a disaster.

 

Just grow a backbone and tell the OW that she should not leave her marriage for your sake. Let her know that you've done a lot of soul searching and that you just cannot leave your marriage. Do not waiver on this at all and do not give her any hope that you're likely to change your mind in the future. She will be hurt and pissed off but there's no way around that. You've let this situation go too far already.

 

You see right through me! How do you know all this????

 

Ok, after speaking with my mow about "what's next" in very superficial terms, we have an appt to spend time in a hideaway for an evening. It's then when she wants to bring up the "how long" questions.

 

Through my convos with her, I have learned she's never been solo. I see that as a big risk. Both that she has yet to know what its like to be solo as well as her feelings could change for me once she discovers that she enjoys being a single parent and exploring. after all, she's in her late 20's and i'm 15 years her senior. i've been down that road. She hasn't and i could see me getting crushed once she awakens and perhaps enjoys being single. then i would look back and realize i thew away my whole family for her. not good.

 

As for plans with mow, i think she needs to get herself in order as well. She talks about getting her taxes done in 2015 and how they will spend their $. That convo has come up a couple of times and it strikes me as she has plans to be with him in 2015 so therefore she's serious as you mentioned, at the moment of the emotion. She's not so serious at times as well and sees herself with her h in the future.

 

i do believe m w sees in my eyes that we are probably closing to the end. We are parents first.....subordinate and parental next....then spouses. Horrible i know but its true.

 

Hence, I ask about the possibility of AP's actually making good marriage material. I mean, if my mow and i got together, would i trust her? Honestly, not so sure. I'm sure that any suave talking older male could befriend her at a new job and she would be hook, line and sinker. trust is gone and that's a hard issue to overcome

[bathtub-row]

No one is likely to enjoy being a single parent over the possibility for a good relationship. However, the age difference between the two of you is a big concern. If I were you, I would not leave my marriage in this case. OW is likely to leave you as you get older and that would be tragic for you. I see that happen all the time, too. You need to be upfront with OW and stop dragging this out.

[Allumere]

Why didn't you learn last time? Sorry to say it but your wife deserves better. She is loyal this is the second time you've cheated on her. She deserves someone to love her and not be there out of guilt.[QOUTE]

 

I want to respond as someone who was in your wife' shoes. Our situation was different. We had no kids and my exH is bipolar although at the beginning of this hell that had not been diagnosed (and even with diagnosis it is not an excuss for his behavior, it only explains his lack of impulse control). Anyway, my exH had several affairs...he stayed or came back out of guilt, not love, and fear of his diagnosis. Let me tell you the damage done by him staying was a thousand times worse than his decision to stick his oar in another pond. 5 years since he has left and I suffer from depression, anxiety and it has totally hosed me in terms of handling the breakups I have experienced since. And yes, your wife knows you are cheating and she knows you cheated before. She may say nothing, she may deny it to herself but she knows. I always knew. And chances are she isn't cheating. I never did and I am talking years without sex or any kind of affection. Please stop the charades for both of your sakes. The reason you play the charades is no different than why I stayed...ultimately it is fear. The fear may have different drivers but it is fear just the same. Man up.

[adna89]

What makes you think you are a God,so great,so best that your wife would be lost without you? trust me many men out there look like crazy for a loyal woman to share their life with! she is a true life partner material...And you are thinking about choosing a cheating woman over her?

 

I know a similar situation,he left his wife and got together with the woman he had an affair with.Now he wants his wife back again--but she will never do it,she is in fact happy in a new relationship as far as i know

Edited September 3, 2014 by adna89

[Survivor12]

You're concerned about your AP making good marriage material? This coming from the man who is incapable of putting anyone's well being ahead of his own? A man who has lied to and deceived his wife for years & is now willing to "future-fake" with his mistress to get what he wants & protect himself? Please!

 

You point out that your mistress has never been "solo"? Who are you to talk when you aren't capable of even being monogamous? You would prefer to think of your wife as being completely dependent, needy and lacking the ability to think for herself to make yourself feel important and powerful. You think she can't live without you? Think again. It is quite possible that she has chosen to let you take the lead rather than challenge you & crush your fragile ego--because SHE is committed to your MARRIAGE (or, she has chosen to turn a blind eye & settle rather than tear apart her family).

 

Sure, it may take her some time to find her balance if you were to leave but once she has broken out of that shell that she has allowed you to put her in, you will see who she really is. I have known many women who, faced with divorce or death of a spouse, shocked those of us who knew them when they revealed just how strong & capable they really are. Never underestimate the potential of a woman. Regardless of how dependent or demure they may appear to be, when faced with a threat to their home, family or emotion, the instinct to protect and survive takes over.

 

In the meantime, you have already found another woman for whom you have little respect to "adore" you, right? Oh, the irony...the very things you complain about with your wife are the very things you are hoping for with your mistress...but you wonder--is she needy enough for you to control or will she rock the boat? Will she be gullible enough to buy your half-truths? Will she adore you enough to stand by blindly while you do whatever you find necessary to feed your ego---or will she be banging some guy in the backseat of a car as soon as the honeymoon is over?

 

Be honest for once in your life. Stop playing games with people's lives. The truth is that you aren't motivated by love for anyone but yourself. All your handwringing about your wife & family is nonsense and all your talk about a future with the OW is a fantasy you are using to convince yourself that you are worth the risk. You want to play with fire for the thrill but you don't have the balls--or the love--to follow through and show the world who you really are.

 

Your narcissism convinces you that you are invincible. While it's true that without real emotions, your heart can't be broken, your fragile ego is your Achilles heel--and THAT is what keeps you from jumping off the train--your fear of facing the truth. You want to dance around the flame and live your fantasy but you are terrified to face the truth--that your wife WILL be able to live without you, that your OW will wake up & see you for who you really are, that your lies will be revealed and that your family & friends will finally feel free to speak the truth about you.

 

Unfortunately, I know that saying this not only falls on deaf ears but feeds your need for drama and attention. So be it. Underneath it all, you know that you are not genuine, you know it's all a game you're playing, and I pity you because you are incapable of experiencing the joy of true love. If you could, you would see how pathetic your life has become. I can only hope that if you have any shred of conscience, you will get some professional help before you destroy any more lives.

[stillafool]

I personally think he should do his wife a favor and leave. He has had affairs before this one and more than likely will have another one after this one if he doesn't leave. No woman deserves to be treated this way. He thinks she can't make it on her own but his leaving may be just what she needs to gather strength and start a new life that she never knew she was capable of having. I think if he leaves her it will free the W up for a man who will truly love and appreciate her. She will understand how wonderful sex can be with a man who actually loves her. Yes, I feel sorry for the kids but kids are resilient and after the dust settles he is still their Dad and they will forgive him. Children are much happier when they are around happy parents. It's depressing living with people who argue, don't get along or love each other. OP is a coward and it seems the one he truly loves is hisself.

[herself]

I dont know why all the what ifs in leaving the W.

What if the ow cheats on you too...what if it doesn't work out?

Bottom line your still unhappy, stuck, staying for kids...

You only get one life...leave get a D...be with the one you love and coparent the kids.

You dont have to marry ow...but you love her and you no longer want to be in the marriage.

Take the risk and also go to ic to process everything but right now it seems like fear of failure is keeping you there.

Your wife will be fine...I assume you will support her finding work and getting on her feet.

You cant live the rest of your life on what ifs.

If you do decide to go...ask for a small break from ow to get things sorted emotionally from the inital fall out. But I feel you must go...not for ow...for you.

[serial muse]

I dont know why all the what ifs in leaving the W.

What if the ow cheats on you too...what if it doesn't work out?

Bottom line your still unhappy, stuck, staying for kids...

You only get one life...leave get a D...be with the one you love and coparent the kids.

You dont have to marry ow...but you love her and you no longer want to be in the marriage.

Take the risk and also go to ic to process everything but right now it seems like fear of failure is keeping you there.

Your wife will be fine...I assume you will support her finding work and getting on her feet.

You cant live the rest of your life on what ifs.

If you do decide to go...ask for a small break from ow to get things sorted emotionally from the inital fall out. But I feel you must go...not for ow...for you.

 

But it does seem relevant for the OP to figure out why he has this pattern. I agree with others that have pointed out that it's ironic he fears the mow will cheat on him; history-wise, he has the far greater chance of doing so, and it's likely because he doesn't know how to be satisfied in a relationship. That's speculation, but it's the sort of thing the OP would do well to explore before leaving his marriage or anything else.

 

OP, did I understand you right that you also cheated on past girlfriends? Have you never tried to explore, in therapy, why you have this impulse? You say that your wife had never been with anyone else, that she's a passive person - well, let me just ask it: Is that why you married her? Did you want that? What are you really feeling the lack of in your partner? Do you hope that your mow will kinda sorta be the same way, once she's out of her marriage? Or do you fear that? Or both?

 

I'd say, at a guess, that it's simply excitement that you crave, and that affairs provide that for you. You like a little thrill, and yet you also like safety, and you fear being alone. And now the mow, just like the last one, is flipping the script and asking you to step out of the safety zone. And that terrifies you. Because deep down, you really really do want safety. And holding all the cards = safety. You've been stacking the deck for years.

 

I'm not convinced that your marriage is unsalvageable. You haven't really explained what's wrong, for one thing. Your words about your wife sound like the same old same old that people in affairs say about their partners to convince themselves they're doing the "right thing" - perhaps not morally right, but "right" in the sense of "the universe wants me to do this" right. Which really just means "I don't want to feel like the bad guy" right.

 

Well, hurting people is never right. You can't win here, sorry. You are the bad guy in this scenario, I'm afraid. Now what you can do is own it, and figure out why. Hopefully you'll start by telling the mow that you don't really want her to leave her husband (because it sure sounds like you don't). And maybe you do really want out of your marriage, and that'll be best for both (don't infantilize your wife further; as others have said, you might be surprised at her resilience if you actually treated her like an adult and let her make her own choices - I strongly suspect that she's passive because long ago she learned that that's what you wanted of her, since you do seem to like holding all the cards). Whatever you decide to do, you really should put yourself in therapy, stat. And stop cheating on people. It's messy and mean and selfish.

Edited September 3, 2014 by serial muse

[conflictedlove]

But it does seem relevant for the OP to figure out why he has this pattern. I agree with others that have pointed out that it's ironic he fears the mow will cheat on him; history-wise, he has the far greater chance of doing so, and it's likely because he doesn't know how to be satisfied in a relationship. That's speculation, but it's the sort of thing the OP would do well to explore before leaving his marriage or anything else.

 

OP, did I understand you right that you also cheated on past girlfriends? Have you never tried to explore, in therapy, why you have this impulse? You say that your wife had never been with anyone else, that she's a passive person - well, let me just ask it: Is that why you married her? Did you want that? What are you really feeling the lack of in your partner? Do you hope that your mow will kinda sorta be the same way, once she's out of her marriage? Or do you fear that? Or both?

 

I'd say, at a guess, that it's simply excitement that you crave, and that affairs provide that for you. You like a little thrill, and yet you also like safety, and you fear being alone. And now the mow, just like the last one, is flipping the script and asking you to step out of the safety zone. And that terrifies you. Because deep down, you really really do want safety. And holding all the cards = safety. You've been stacking the deck for years.

 

I'm not convinced that your marriage is unsalvageable. You haven't really explained what's wrong, for one thing. Your words about your wife sound like the same old same old that people in affairs say about their partners to convince themselves they're doing the "right thing" - perhaps not morally right, but "right" in the sense of "the universe wants me to do this" right. Which really just means "I don't want to feel like the bad guy" right.

 

Well, hurting people is never right. You can't win here, sorry. You are the bad guy in this scenario, I'm afraid. Now what you can do is own it, and figure out why. Hopefully you'll start by telling the mow that you don't really want her to leave her husband (because it sure sounds like you don't). And maybe you do really want out of your marriage, and that'll be best for both (don't infantilize your wife further; as others have said, you might be surprised at her resilience if you actually treated her like an adult and let her make her own choices - I strongly suspect that she's passive because long ago she learned that that's what you wanted of her, since you do seem to like holding all the cards). Whatever you decide to do, you really should put yourself in therapy, stat. And stop cheating on people. It's messy and mean and selfish.

 

Hi Muse,

 

you just stripped me barren with your words. Yes, you are spot on about my seeking a thrill (I thought that's what A's were) yet having a safety net at home. I do like to hold the cards and i am ernest at not hurting anyone but the A, just like before, grew into a giant size infant that fills the entire room!

 

my mow is pressing me and i know she feels the pressure of abstaining from her h intimately and he's not taking well to it. she's disgusted by him when he asks and she avoid him as much as possible. she wants me and her and our future. she has told me over and over and we are going to have a quiet, intimate conversation about this in coming days. she's ready to plan. my previous A with a mow had a similar situation but unlike now, my previous mow knew i wasn't going to act after i kept deferring her next step questions.

 

both my past A with mow and my present A have similar outcomes. they both wanted to / want to leave their spouses and start a life. i am for it BUT as you just stripped me down....i can't have both and I don't want to wreck lives of spouses (my w for sure) and my kids. i carry this weight like a thorny crown.

 

my hope is to help mow relocate her occupation as she is looking aggressively. if she does obtain new employment, that will be the end. she will have a new object of her attention and i will have my out. until then, she and i really want a next step but i'm not a coward. i can't just leave my kids stranded on the side of the road wondering where I went. its not in me.

 

To answer your question, yes i did marry my w as a clean start. no previous intimate relationships and 1 child bf. the youngest child in her fam. it had all the right makings and she's passive by designed. i prefer this. i don't prefer battling with someone who wants to vacate at a moment's notice over small matters or has to be in control when they haven't earned trust and respect.

 

i am going to re-read your response. like so many of the replies, this one had me in tears. i guess i'm after someone who can i trust wholeheartedly and i have never really found that. i'm chasing that in part but now i'm thinking how can i get that from an AP. they can't deliver that or at least the odds are unlikely.

[denise_xo]

i guess i'm after someone who can i trust wholeheartedly and i have never really found that.

 

Maybe the real problem here is that you don't trust yourself? If you can't (based on your string of affairs), you won't be able to trust anyone else, either.

[scatterd]

I think your wife and kids deserve better. This OW is not very loyal with her Husband as your wife has been with you. You wont be any different then her husband after you both are together a while. But you should let your wife find someone who is as faithful to her as she has been with you. You and your OW are more alike so I say go for it.know that it most likely wont last because very few do and the odds are against you. You have a want for newness and I think any woman would become old to you after time. One day you may look back and wish you had done things different. Finding a good loyal partner is not easy to find especially when you get older. Anyway you decide I would think hard before jumping good luck.

[BlueIris]

All,

I've got 3 kids of my own and i feel as if my w who is a homemaker would be so distraught she wouldn't be able to make it w/o me. My kids would hate me, maybe forever.

 

I've seen plenty of homemaker wives- most, in my experience- do just fine, and eventually very well, after divorcing dishonest husbands. Sometimes the ex-husbands are flabbergasted when she does well without him and is attractive to other men, but eventually everyone moves on and builds lives of their own. Yes, the kids do typically hold a cheating parent accountable and pull away from them, but they too do fine in time. At least from what I've seen.

 

I'd think your best bet would be to become honest with your wife, and let the chips fall. If she chooses to divorce you, be amicable and honorable in the divorce, candid and fair in the property settlement, pay child support and spousal maintenance, and patiently work to develop positive relationships with your kids once you've become honest and they are ready.

 

While your concern seems to be primarily the MOW, I can't fathom an Other Man or Other Woman being anywhere near as important as my relationship with my children for the rest of my life. It sounds as though you're concerned only that MOW is going to make things messy and difficult for you. But you already did that for yourself. It isn't, or won't be, her fault if things blow up.

[conflictedlove]

I've seen plenty of homemaker wives- most, in my experience- do just fine, and eventually very well, after divorcing dishonest husbands. Sometimes the ex-husbands are flabbergasted when she does well without him and is attractive to other men, but eventually everyone moves on and builds lives of their own. Yes, the kids do typically hold a cheating parent accountable and pull away from them, but they too do fine in time. At least from what I've seen.

 

I'd think your best bet would be to become honest with your wife, and let the chips fall. If she chooses to divorce you, be amicable and honorable in the divorce, candid and fair in the property settlement, pay child support and spousal maintenance, and patiently work to develop positive relationships with your kids once you've become honest and they are ready.

 

While your concern seems to be primarily the MOW, I can't fathom an Other Man or Other Woman being anywhere near as important as my relationship with my children for the rest of my life. It sounds as though you're concerned only that MOW is going to make things messy and difficult for you. But you already did that for yourself. It isn't, or won't be, her fault if things blow up.

 

Hi BlueIRIS,

 

Thank you and yes, although there are women who move on, I just see my W having a difficult time. It would be hard but I believe she would.

 

You are right and my kids are my primary focus. They depend on me to be here everyday and as my 2 youngest kids move through elementary, i feel the guilt knowing they talk to me when i get home for work about things they don't share with their mother. if i wasn't here, where would they go?

 

I can say this, my kids are closer to their mother than I. When we are home and if she's in a different room, they migrate to where she's at. She enjoys it and never complains. I do appreciate that in her.

 

As far as mow, i feel both longing to see her and yet ill at the same time knowing that she really wants an LTR with me. If she moves on to a different employer soon, which i'm' going to try and help work out, i'll know for sure and i think deep down she will know as well. We won't see each other as often and more than likely i can see us drifting apart, no matter how much we profess we can't be without each other. I believe needs me and i need her. i have no way to test this other than if she moves on to another employer.

[conflictedlove]

I think your wife and kids deserve better. This OW is not very loyal with her Husband as your wife has been with you. You wont be any different then her husband after you both are together a while. But you should let your wife find someone who is as faithful to her as she has been with you. You and your OW are more alike so I say go for it.know that it most likely wont last because very few do and the odds are against you. You have a want for newness and I think any woman would become old to you after time. One day you may look back and wish you had done things different. Finding a good loyal partner is not easy to find especially when you get older. Anyway you decide I would think hard before jumping good luck.

 

Scattered,

 

This is profound. I've thought about what you have said too! The odds against mow and I are very high. We've talked about going to counseling to help both of us cope with each other if we leave our spouses as well as building relationships with our ex spouses.

 

I fear you are right...that since we are more like each other, we both have demonstrated the ability to find affection in others and once life hits us, its likely to happen when we are a couple. her age gap to mine is a big issue, added to how we started, the lieklyhood of this happening again and the statistical odds.

 

i'm rethinking everything right now. So much its starting to scare me sick.

[conflictedlove]

Maybe the real problem here is that you don't trust yourself? If you can't (based on your string of affairs), you won't be able to trust anyone else, either.

 

Hi Denise,

 

That's very likely but how does one trust oneself? I think i just take high risks and next thing you know i'm doing something i shouldn't.

 

with mow, i figured i could back out at any time. i had the power and ability. i kept waiting and enjoying the moments assuming i could cancel my subscription. Little did i know that the moments would start to cement and cloud our hearts. Next thing you know, its going too fast and there's no way to jump off.

 

I feel a large amount of guilt over my past relationships. i've never been genuinely open and given all of myself to someone so maybe that's the problem?

[conflictedlove]

No one is likely to enjoy being a single parent over the possibility for a good relationship. However, the age difference between the two of you is a big concern. If I were you, I would not leave my marriage in this case. OW is likely to leave you as you get older and that would be tragic for you. I see that happen all the time, too. You need to be upfront with OW and stop dragging this out.

 

Hi Bathtub,

 

Well I agree and yes, let me enlighten you and others here on what's happened....

 

mow and i will see each other tomorrow intimate private setting. she is going to press me about the convo of our next steps. i know she sees her H as a child who can't make his own decisions and is very self centered. ONce our A started, she knew that i put her first and adored who she is and not what she put out. she would have been fine being the leader of the home but now she knows there's a better, more fulfilling opportunity with me.

 

she is on the verge of telling him its over. i keep trying to prevent her from doing that until he decides its over as well. i, on the other hand, do think about my own kids and the effect on my w and its enough to keep me from vacating them to be with mow. i'm being honest, sincere and speaking the truth.

 

my plan is to help mow move on to another employer, she will be very caught up and busy in that new role and we won't see each other as much. i will be crushed and broken knowing she won't be mine and someone else will likely be the winner of the prize she is...but i can't vacate my w and kids. i know what its like coming from a single parent home and there are very few upsides compared to the other.

[whatatangledweb]

If your plan is to help her get another job so you can slowly get rid of her...why can't you just be honest and tell her that you will not leave your wife and kids? Why screw with her head and heart like this? She is not slowly going to slip away. She is just going to gear up telling her husband and most likely your wife. It would be much better for your wife to find out from you than her.

Why can't you be honest with either of these women? Is it because what you really want it to have both? That is no long going to work as your OW has made very clear. You need to be honest with her when you see her.

[DKT3]

Hi Bathtub,

 

Well I agree and yes, let me enlighten you and others here on what's happened....

 

mow and i will see each other tomorrow intimate private setting. she is going to press me about the convo of our next steps. i know she sees her H as a child who can't make his own decisions and is very self centered. ONce our A started, she knew that i put her first and adored who she is and not what she put out. she would have been fine being the leader of the home but now she knows there's a better, more fulfilling opportunity with me.

 

she is on the verge of telling him its over. i keep trying to prevent her from doing that until he decides its over as well. i, on the other hand, do think about my own kids and the effect on my w and its enough to keep me from vacating them to be with mow. i'm being honest, sincere and speaking the truth.

 

my plan is to help mow move on to another employer, she will be very caught up and busy in that new role and we won't see each other as much. i will be crushed and broken knowing she won't be mine and someone else will likely be the winner of the prize she is...but i can't vacate my w and kids. i know what its like coming from a single parent home and there are very few upsides compared to the other.

 

Prize? Dude your wife is the prize, the other is no prize. But I guess birds of a feather right?

 

Sounds to me like you lack the fortitude to make the decision and your simply hoping it works itself out. Your beloved MOW will likely force your hand soon. If she tells her husband your wife will soon follow.

 

Worst part of all this is you clearly know better, you know this relationship with MOW will fail, yet your still willing to give it all up.

[2sunny]

Hi Bathtub,

 

Well I agree and yes, let me enlighten you and others here on what's happened....

 

mow and i will see each other tomorrow intimate private setting. she is going to press me about the convo of our next steps. i know she sees her H as a child who can't make his own decisions and is very self centered. ONce our A started, she knew that i put her first and adored who she is and not what she put out. she would have been fine being the leader of the home but now she knows there's a better, more fulfilling opportunity with me.

 

she is on the verge of telling him its over. i keep trying to prevent her from doing that until he decides its over as well. i, on the other hand, do think about my own kids and the effect on my w and its enough to keep me from vacating them to be with mow. i'm being honest, sincere and speaking the truth.

 

my plan is to help mow move on to another employer, she will be very caught up and busy in that new role and we won't see each other as much. i will be crushed and broken knowing she won't be mine and someone else will likely be the winner of the prize she is...but i can't vacate my w and kids. i know what its like coming from a single parent home and there are very few upsides compared to the other.

 

This is a sneaky and conniving plan on your part.

 

There's no honesty in the way you participate.

 

No wonder you don't understand about trust. You can't trust yourself or anyone else because you don't practice it in yourself.

 

 

You get what you give - so expect to continue living in the lies.

[Hope Shimmers]

but i'm not a coward.

 

Right. You're not a coward.

 

mow and i will see each other tomorrow intimate private setting. she is going to press me about the convo of our next steps. i know she sees her H as a child who can't make his own decisions and is very self centered. ONce our A started, she knew that i put her first and adored who she is and not what she put out. she would have been fine being the leader of the home but now she knows there's a better, more fulfilling opportunity with me.

 

she is on the verge of telling him its over. i keep trying to prevent her from doing that until he decides its over as well. i, on the other hand, do think about my own kids and the effect on my w and its enough to keep me from vacating them to be with mow. i'm being honest, sincere and speaking the truth.

 

my plan is to help mow move on to another employer, she will be very caught up and busy in that new role and we won't see each other as much. i will be crushed and broken knowing she won't be mine and someone else will likely be the winner of the prize she is...but i can't vacate my w and kids. i know what its like coming from a single parent home and there are very few upsides compared to the other.

 

I wish this thread could be stickied at the top of this forum and titled "Typical Cheating Married Man Behavior".

 

So your plan is not to own any of your decisions and hope to slowly 'escape' from having to make a choice and be honest with OW about what you want. You want to get out of it with your skin intact and not have to admit anything - not to the OW to whom you made promises, OR to your wife to whom you made promises. So you are choosing to break promises you made to BOTH women and do it in such a way that you don't actually have to take responsibility for it on either end. Rather you hope to just "ease" out of it by manipulating the OW and continue lying to your wife. Real classy.

 

You are a typical cheating MM who future-fakes, breaks promises, doesn't have the cojones to either leave his marriage OR be honest with the OW, and wants to just "escape" everything and have it go away with no impact on you. I mean really - that doesn't sound like a 'coward' at all, does it!

 

What is going to happen (like watching a train wreck in slo-mo) is that your OW is not going to just "go away" and once she leaves her husband because of what you told her, she is going to blow up your nice little falsely constructed world by telling your wife. Good luck with that!

 

Oh, and DKT is correct in that your OW isn't the "prize". Really, if someone like that is the "prize" then I would be content to never win anything again.

[bathtub-row]

Prize? Dude your wife is the prize, the other is no prize. But I guess birds of a feather right?

 

Sounds to me like you lack the fortitude to make the decision and your simply hoping it works itself out. Your beloved MOW will likely force your hand soon. If she tells her husband your wife will soon follow.

 

Worst part of all this is you clearly know better, you know this relationship with MOW will fail, yet your still willing to give it all up.

 

Look, we don't know him, his wife or the OW. It's likely that, in general, they're all great people. But just because his wife hasn't cheated on him doesn't make her a prize, ok? I know plenty of women who don't cheat but they're also lousy wives. It may just be that MM and his wife just simply don't click. Maybe they never did. Maybe she's as cold as ice and doesn't care that much about him. Who the heck knows. But I do know this -- she's not necessarily a prize just because she's his wife and doesn't cheat (as far as we know).

 

Nor is the OW a lousy individual just because she's with MM, and the same goes for him. I think the biggest factor here is the age difference and the point at which the OW is at in her life. If it were a 15 yr gap where she was 55 and he was 70, that might be better but even that is stretching it. The age gap is a huge deal and it should be a concern. I have a friend who lives in a state where there are lots of young women married to older men. Invariably after 5 yrs or so, these younger women - who were once so nuts about these men - are tired of being tied to someone older. It rarely works.

 

I actually believe that people who had affairs can make relationships work. I've known of several myself. I believe it boils down to why these people got involved in the first place. If it was a genuine friendship and attraction, then something like that can work. If it was simply about the sex, then it's going to fall apart. I think MM and OW have what it takes in terms of their connection, I just think the real problem is the age gap. She is likely to get tired of dealing with the age gap and start craving companionship with someone closer to her own age.

Edited September 12, 2014 by bathtub-row