The 11th Hour and D-Day is coming: Admissions of Fear

[Hope Shimmers]

... and also I thought the comments that op didnt love his kids were out of line.

 

I made that comment so fine - you win and he probably loves his kids, in his definition of 'love'. I added 'kids' on at last minute and was really thinking in terms of respect, not love. He respects no one.

 

He compartmentalized his wife and kids to be seperate from his affair. Doesn't mean he didn't love them. Who are we to say who he loves or how much was my point. Just an opinion.

 

Love is not just a "feeling".

 

So if you were married to someone and they had cheated on you for 10 years with 2 women, both whom he promised a future to, and had sex with - would you think he "loved" you? Where is the love? Actions, not words, as everyone keeps saying.

 

As for the OW, do you think that he loves two OW who he threw under the bus when they wanted to believe his promises? In fact, with the second OW, he is such a wimp that he is afraid even to admit to his OW that he didn't mean it, instead preferring that she divorce her H because that would mean it would take longer and with her new job all might be forgotten and he might not have to be the 'bad guy'. Where is the love in that?

 

I would say he loves and prioritizes only one person, and that is himself.

 

I'm surprised to see you repeatedly defending a MM but I don't remember your exact story so maybe you are still in the A or wish you were. Or still pining for the MM. If so I understand your position because I was there too.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Hope Shimmers

[Hope Shimmers]

But my point was I didnt fall apart, live a shattered life on drugs and mentally distraught because I came from a broken home

 

Maybe not, but you did repeat your own history. Children do what they know.

[herself]

Maybe not, but you did repeat your own history. Children do what they know.

 

Well I wasn't trying to put anyone down nor defend myself or hold myself in a good light.

I was just trying to take a fair neutral stance in a horrible situation it seems like people jump on the bandwagon to tear people down. This guys in the trenches as is his ow...it just seems so easy to take shots at people.

We are all awful for taking part in these relationships but when people come for help...

Basically I didnt want to offend anyone by my comment.

I just wanted to try and be objective and look at other angles trying to use less judgemental eyes because tearing people apart doesn't seem to help.

I get tough love or painful honesty but theres a line where it can read like an attack.

Not suggesting that was your intention, I didn't look who posted it.

No question I am an immoral selfish person for my part in my ea.

I own it.

[gettingstronger]

Ugh! So glad the majority are on the same page here. Truly, you need to take some time to figure out why you are so entitled. Why lead these women on. You are not the only person in the world with a penis. Man up and soon before you hurt more people.

[herself]

I made that comment so fine - you win and he probably loves his kids, in his definition of 'love'. I added 'kids' on at last minute and was really thinking in terms of respect, not love. He respects no one.

 

 

 

Love is not just a "feeling".

 

So if you were married to someone and they had cheated on you for 10 years with 2 women, both whom he promised a future to, and had sex with - would you think he "loved" you? Where is the love? Actions, not words, as everyone keeps saying.

 

As for the OW, do you think that he loves two OW who he threw under the bus when they wanted to believe his promises? In fact, with the second OW, he is such a wimp that he is afraid even to admit to his OW that he didn't mean it, instead preferring that she divorce her H because that would mean it would take longer and with her new job all might be forgotten and he might not have to be the 'bad guy'. Where is the love in that?

 

I would say he loves and prioritizes only one person, and that is himself.

 

I'm surprised to see you repeatedly defending a MM but I don't remember your exact story so maybe you are still in the A or wish you were. Or still pining for the MM. If so I understand your position because I was there too.

 

Theres no defense?

I just am not attacking people, regardless if mm or ow...people in glass houses...

I dont wanna derail thread...I was just giving my thoughts. Just my opinion.

[Hope Shimmers]

Theres no defense?

I just am not attacking people, regardless if mm or ow...people in glass houses...

I dont wanna derail thread...I was just giving my thoughts. Just my opinion.

 

I'm generally the last person to judge people in affairs who come here for help, as many here will attest to. But this person was very clear on what he did and wanted to do, and based on that I gave my opinion. It was a strong opinion, but it wasn't meant as a personal attack.

 

If people get in an A and want to change things or act somewhat compassionate about anyone they are hurting then that makes all the difference. This person did none of the above, has seemed to learn nothing about respecting people, and came on here looking for "support" (for his affair ending, I guess). When someone lacks remorse or compassion and clearly has learned nothing about respecting anyone they supposedly love, then they should hear about it if they ask for input... in my opinion.

[2sunny]

So much written about his OW and not much about his wife.

 

Please divorce your wife. You've cheated twice and treat her feelings as an after thought.

 

Poor gal - I hope she can be free.

[conflictedlove]

I think the man is wrong....dead wring.

But surmising that he doesn't love his kids or either woman is too far.

We dont know. It is a frustrating maddening situation and hopefully everyone is learning here. I hope he is opening his eyes to things now.

Theres not an easy way out now but theres his side...her side...and her side and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

The "easiest" way might be to come clean with everyone and the other thing is he may be so deeply flawed because the real person he doesn't love is himself and he hoped to find that in others. And now hes left with a mess.

I feel compassion and anger. But I do think at the very least he loves his kids.

My Dad left for AP and signed his parental rights a way. Men do it. He is not.

 

Hi Herself,

 

Thank you for respecting my position and I am so sorry to hear how your dad left with AP and signed off on his rights! Wow, I can't do that.

 

I have to admit, that after reading all the posts so far, I'm thank for the feedback as well as looking inside myself.

 

This is my 2nd A. Yes, I shamefully admit it. I also admit that my w has a very passive personality and i have a lot of flexibility to my time. I always wanted something more. Not because she's not a good woman, she is! It's just we never really connected on the same level. I am the decision maker for so many things and I really feel horrible about all this. I want my w to be happy and in some distorted way, if i leave for AP i want my w to find someone first. I can't handle the thought of someone else being intimate with her yet I know that's what I would give up if I went with AP.

 

I'm still reading these posts on this thread and I'm taking all of it in.

 

Thank you

[conflictedlove]

Your scared? Hmmm, you should be scared of who you've become.

 

It may be useful to entirely change who you are. That way maybe you can become proud of the person you are.

 

Change is good! Takes a ton of contrary action though; and in this case change would certainly look better than it does now.

 

Hi,

 

Wow this is so hard to digest but I know its true.

 

I am taking all these comments in and thinking about what I brought to the table and maybe how I need to change.

 

How does being caught up in an very deep 2 year A allow for change?

[bathtub-row]

Quite honestly, I think there's a distinct possibility that your wife is a lousy wife. It's also possible that it's as you say - the two of you just have no real connection. Either way, it's apparent that this relationship has taken its toll on you, and I'm going to guess it has taken its toll on her, as well. I doubt there's a woman alive who isn't aware when their husband doesn't truly love her, so I doubt this realization has escaped your wife's attention.

 

Regardless of the reasons for the things you've done, you're truly not on board with your marriage. I know you think that staying is the right thing to do but as long as you continue to cheat on her, it's not. On some level, everyone -- even the kids -- sense the disconnect and it impacts everyone. You're also destroying your own reputation and screwing things up for any potential new relationship. Most women are going to be very suspect of a man who has cheated in past relationships. Particularly if they cheated more than once. You've established a very negative history for yourself and it's something that can come back to haunt you in more ways than one.

 

I really think you should just bite the bullet and leave your marriage. I think that as long as you stay in it, you're going to cheat because you can't sustain that level of misery long-term. Life is just too short to live that way. Once you get past the hurdle of resolving all of this and getting out of your marriage, the faster everyone can move forward and have a better life. If you're worried about how your wife is going to make it, then just be sure she's taken care of financially for as long as she needs that or for as long as you can sustain it. I would also refrain from telling her about either of your affairs. There's no need for her to know.

[still_an_Angel]

All,

 

 

 

Questions

 

1. Should spouses stay in a relationship because of the kids?

 

 

IME, no. I tried my damn best to make things work in my own M (forsaking my happiness) because of my kids. I even agreed to a reconciliation after my H left, and decided to come back, because my oldest child struggled so much with our separation - bad move! It made our situation worse.

 

 

2. Do kids ever really heal?

 

 

My eldest child has been in counselling since mid-2011 and continues to have problems until now. With the recent episode that got him nearly suspended from school, he again talked about how his life "sucks" (his word, not mine) and why his dad is not with us. I don't know the answer to this question as my son is not even over the separation as yet, but each child is different. My son's situation is just an example

 

 

3. Do all A's end up wanting to turn into full blown relationships?

 

 

My current status is an OW, in my case we are not planning on a full blown relationship. I am not ready for a full time relationship and MM is not leaving his W. But each case is different, this depends on the people involved.

 

 

4. What happens to those A's that turn into relationships then crash and burn? Where do people go for help and how do they go back to their families?

 

 

sorry, no experience in this, might help for you to read other threads on this issue

 

 

5. What are the odds of an A actually surviving the long haul?

 

 

again, there are so many factors that will determine and affect an A, depends on the couple involved as well

 

 

 

 

6. Am I wrong for not wanting to leave my w and kids for mow knowing that's what i want to do but my anxiety won't let me due to the impact on my kids?

 

This is really on you, no one can say you are right or wrong. You will make this decision based on your values, how your family weighs in your life vs. what you want to do.

 

 

Seeing that your train is about to slam into the wall, I think you need to clarify your position with your OW in the first instance. This situation has the potential to blow up the 2 families and if you can prevent this, why wait? You can still do something to stop this, never mind all the excuses.

 

 

Best of luck, Angel

[2sunny]

Hi,

 

Wow this is so hard to digest but I know its true.

 

I am taking all these comments in and thinking about what I brought to the table and maybe how I need to change.

 

How does being caught up in an very deep 2 year A allow for change?

 

 

It doesn't allow room for your marriage to be a good marriage. Make a decision - the M or your OW. Then focus only on that relationship.

 

I think you're still thinking of how you can have both - that's selfish and cruel of you. You'll STILL be hurting others.

 

By the way, are you the guy who was on the boat, train and numerous other fluffy ways you described your affair last year?

[Owl]

2sunny has the right of it.

 

You've been standing at a crossroads for two years...the affair the left handed path, the marriage is the right handed path.

 

You can't go left without moving further away from the right...nor vice-versa.

 

I don't care what you do...but my advice would be to pick a path...left, or right. Resolve yourself towards only going down that path...and leave the other behind for ever.

[SugarHibiscus]

You need to tell your AP how you feel. Don't let your relationship be a factor in her decision to end her marriage.

 

My AP and I feel like we lie to everyone else, we have to be honest with each other at least. Neither of us are leaving our current relationships because of our small kids. We also feel that if one of us is going to leave, it cannot be because of our relationship. We cannot have a stable relationship with this sort of foundation. It is bound to fail.

 

Good luck to you.

[WakingUp]

By the way, are you the guy who was on the boat, train and numerous other fluffy ways you described your affair last year?

 

Ha! I wondered that too.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

I just went through this similar scenario. I am the OW of MM with kids married 14 years. The exception is MM told me from day one he would NEVER leave his wife. Did you give your OW promises that you would do so and now that it has come time you are not ready? Can you talk to her and explain your not ready?

 

As far as kids healing I feel they do, if you are really in love with the OW over your W I believe in true love always shines through, I know some on here don't agree with me but I am old fashioned that way. I personally do not think a person should stay in a marriage for the kids sake I think its just an excuse. I am also bias due to being the OW and would love for my MM to leave his wife and kids for me (as selfish as that sounds). Kids are resilient, they enjoy new prospects and new environments as long as its peaceful it can work. I have seen it happen many times over. BUT it sounds like you are not ready for this and you should not do what you are not ready to do and you should explain this to the OW and tell her to refrain from telling her husband so you and her can start your life together if you are not sure.

 

Read my story under I think its titled MM tells OW its over, something like that. I am M myself my anny was 25 yrs yesterday the affair was very hard on my already strained marriage we have been separated for 3 yrs. the duration of the affair and it is very difficult to get back what was. Now the MM dumped me and I have noone. I have myself I'm trying to pick up the pieces its very difficult. It seems there are no winners where this is concerned.

 

This is rubbish wayward foggy thinking.

 

Kids are NOT as resilient as you think and they should NEVER be made to pay for your utter selfishness. Your head is in the clouds lady. And I am a child of infidelity....both parents. No way should they have stayed together, but the infidelities set of all sorts of ugly events which I have paid for. Read my story. Then understand you are only flogging this 'let live shine, the kids willbe fine' line to try and make yourself feel better about destroying the lives of your kids AND HIS.

 

You want him to leave his precious innocent children - for you? Really? Wow. You really wish that on his kids? Would you leave yours for him?

 

Id never want go touch a man who would think his own flesh and blood is so expendable.

[bathtub-row]

This is rubbish wayward foggy thinking.

 

Kids are NOT as resilient as you think and they should NEVER be made to pay for your utter selfishness. Your head is in the clouds lady. And I am a child of infidelity....both parents. No way should they have stayed together, but the infidelities set of all sorts of ugly events which I have paid for. Read my story. Then understand you are only flogging this 'let live shine, the kids willbe fine' line to try and make yourself feel better about destroying the lives of your kids AND HIS.

 

You want him to leave his precious innocent children - for you? Really? Wow. You really wish that on his kids? Would you leave yours for him?

 

Id never want go touch a man who would think his own flesh and blood is so expendable.

 

Divorce doesn't have to devestate kids. It's the parents and their bad behavior that does that. It sounds like your parents did it all wrong and you paid a high price. If people don't need to be together, though, then they need to move on and act like adults about it. I cringe whenever I see divorcing couples involve their kids in their relationship problems and fights. I will never understand why people do this.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Divorce doesn't have to devestate kids. It's the parents and their bad behavior that does that. It sounds like your parents did it all wrong and you paid a high price. If people don't need to be together, though, then they need to move on and act like adults about it. I cringe whenever I see divorcing couples involve their kids in their relationship problems and fights. I will never understand why people do this.

 

Correct...but it wasnt the divorce...it was the fact he left her for another woman. That set off a chain of events. Related to the infidelity, not fhe divorce. Im not going to type it out again, its around somewhere....but people think kids are fhese pliable creatures that can be shaped and molded to behave and respond and bounce back from trauma without harm. Its simply not true. There is data and evidence and statisticsto support this. I mean look at herself....from a statistic and became one herself.

[justmebev1]

This is rubbish wayward foggy thinking.

 

Kids are NOT as resilient as you think and they should NEVER be made to pay for your utter selfishness. Your head is in the clouds lady. And I am a child of infidelity....both parents. No way should they have stayed together, but the infidelities set of all sorts of ugly events which I have paid for. Read my story. Then understand you are only flogging this 'let live shine, the kids willbe fine' line to try and make yourself feel better about destroying the lives of your kids AND HIS.

 

You want him to leave his precious innocent children - for you? Really? Wow. You really wish that on his kids? Would you leave yours for him?

 

Id never want go touch a man who would think his own flesh and blood is so expendable.

 

This happened to YOU! If the children are treated with openness and honesty on both sides it will not destroy their lives as you put it. If anything it makes them stronger. Let me ask you this. Do you think the man/womans children would not want to see their mom/dad happy? Do you think that the burden is heavier for the children knowing their mom/dad stayed in a relationship they did not want to for them? A man does what a man wants to do. When a man says they are staying for the children's sake I think it's BULL****.

[Owl]

This happened to YOU! If the children are treated with openness and honesty on both sides it will not destroy their lives as you put it. If anything it makes them stronger. Let me ask you this. Do you think the man/womans children would not want to see their mom/dad happy? Do you think that the burden is heavier for the children knowing their mom/dad stayed in a relationship they did not want to for them? A man does what a man wants to do. When a man says they are staying for the children's sake I think it's BULL****.

 

By the same token...having an exit affair often teaches the children that it's alright to start a new relationship without having ended the first one appropriately.

 

Kids learn relationship skills from their parents...to include infidelity and dishonesty as a coping mechanism.

 

It teaches them that it's alright to make yourself happy...at the expense of others.

 

Not lessons I'd want my kids to learn from me.

[justmebev1]

Every circumstance is different and unique. Too many factors come into play to make a general statement.

[Owl]

Every circumstance is different and unique. Too many factors come into play to make a general statement.

 

I disagree. Minor details vary...but the outcomes rarely differ much.

[anika99]

This happened to YOU! If the children are treated with openness and honesty on both sides it will not destroy their lives as you put it. If anything it makes them stronger. Let me ask you this. Do you think the man/womans children would not want to see their mom/dad happy? Do you think that the burden is heavier for the children knowing their mom/dad stayed in a relationship they did not want to for them? A man does what a man wants to do. When a man says they are staying for the children's sake I think it's BULL****.

 

This is true. Some people handle their divorce with the well being of their children at the top of their priorities. These people are not off getting cozy with a new person before they have sufficiently dealt with the divorce and helped their children through it. When an a affair is known and ongoing during a divorce, I don't believe either parent is in the best frame of mind to be helping their kids. The betrayed spouse is usually reeling from the shock and pain of the betrayal and the cheating spouse is being split between dealing with their broken family and trying to keep their affair partner happy. Cheating spouses often become emotionally distant to their children as well their spouse at this time as a means to protect themselves from the enormous guilt they feel for abandoning their children. The kids hurt because they don't understand marital problems and they feel like they have also been left for another. There are always exceptions but for the most part I don't think many people who are divorcing due to an affair do a very good job of protecting their children from the fall out.

 

 

Kids don't like to see their parents unhappy but I don't think they are really able to put their parents happiness above their own and they shouldn't be expected to. If their home is relatively peaceful and free from abuse then I don't think they really care all that much about what is going on in their parents marriage. As teens they may become more aware of their parents underlying issues but that doesn't necessarily mean they want their lives uprooted and drastically changed in order to help their parents find happiness.

 

 

I've seen adults say that they wish their parents had gotten divorced but since their parents aren't divorced they don't really know how a divorce would have affected them had it happened. They are guessing that everyone would have been happier but since they didn't live that scenario there is no way for them to know.

[BrokenPrincess]

Like others have said, it also made me cringe to read that your plan is to continue to future fake with your OW and then gradually let her go once she gets a D. What do you think when you read that back? Not attacking you, just curious if that sounds like a good plan or incredibly cruel or what?

 

It sounds like the only thing you learned from your first A was that you can get away with it all, from keeping your wife from finding out to extracting yourself from the OW after she leaves her H. Thus, you're repeating the exact same behavior now, assuming it will all work out like that again.

 

To me, you don't sound like you love your OW at all. Not in this post or the others before. You also don't sound like you want to leave the comforts of your M. Based on those 2 premises alone, I would end things with your OW now before you press your luck any further and this all blows up in your face.

[conflictedlove]

Quite honestly, I think there's a distinct possibility that your wife is a lousy wife. It's also possible that it's as you say - the two of you just have no real connection. Either way, it's apparent that this relationship has taken its toll on you, and I'm going to guess it has taken its toll on her, as well. I doubt there's a woman alive who isn't aware when their husband doesn't truly love her, so I doubt this realization has escaped your wife's attention.

 

Regardless of the reasons for the things you've done, you're truly not on board with your marriage. I know you think that staying is the right thing to do but as long as you continue to cheat on her, it's not. On some level, everyone -- even the kids -- sense the disconnect and it impacts everyone. You're also destroying your own reputation and screwing things up for any potential new relationship. Most women are going to be very suspect of a man who has cheated in past relationships. Particularly if they cheated more than once. You've established a very negative history for yourself and it's something that can come back to haunt you in more ways than one.

 

I really think you should just bite the bullet and leave your marriage. I think that as long as you stay in it, you're going to cheat because you can't sustain that level of misery long-term. Life is just too short to live that way. Once you get past the hurdle of resolving all of this and getting out of your marriage, the faster everyone can move forward and have a better life. If you're worried about how your wife is going to make it, then just be sure she's taken care of financially for as long as she needs that or for as long as you can sustain it. I would also refrain from telling her about either of your affairs. There's no need for her to know.

 

Bathtub

 

I've thought about what you said it had to be worth noting your perspective is spot on. I don't plan to tell my w about my ap or my past a. There's no value I doing so.

 

What I am leaning towards is letting my w go. I can't fathom the impact on my kids. It freaks me out. My son is already a teen and dealing with depression. My other younger kids no doubt would be scared and hurt.

 

My mom is ready to drop the bomb on her h. She's hoping to tell him it's over and perhaps we wait 6 months before coming out of the closet. I think it's a good idea however I don't feel like i can trust mow because of how we started. She's very attractive and 15 yes younger than I so what's to make me believe it can't happen to me? Granted her h is a totally dependent on mow to make all the family and entertainment decisions, he's still a guy who's got issues and he's soon to be out the door.

 

I'm torn! I can't have both 100% and both are asking for me to give is. I thought I could keep the a from turning into a relationship with plans to be together but that didn't work. Here I am!

 

I do sincerely love mow. I also know I love my w for different reasons. She's the mother of my kids. Has always been faithful and I'm the only man she's been intimate with. When I've asked her in the past about divorce she doesn't want to and wants to make it work. I have no complaints about being intimate with my w. So what's the problem I think?

 

Mow on other hand wants to start out journey ASAP but is waiting for her h to bring it up so she doesn't look like the idiot.

Tough call no doubt,

 

I couldn't sleep the other night thinking about all this. I just feel so lost