Why Great Husbands Are Being Abandoned

[Discjockey80]

Why cant the raw truth just be told?? These women are bored!

 

 

Yes, women get bored. They may have the most confident, outgoing husband...masculine or whatever...and sooner or later she gets bored! Same as many men complain about.

 

 

It just comes down to commitment to the marriage, etc. These women are just looking for an excuse to go around and have some fun on the side.

 

 

Simple.

[lollipopspot]

Women don't leave husbands because the guys are great. Women leave for a variety of other reasons, some good some bad. Some women, like many men, have poor bounderies and get involved with someone else and leave the marriage as a result. Some women, like many men, are not really built for marriage. Some women leave because the husband ( like many wives) is cold, or passive-aggresive, or abusive. It is very easy to hide these traits from a marriage counselor and present a very differant person to the counsoler then the one that exist at home.

 

It is possible to be a great guy or girl and be left by your partner. You might have done everything right, but that isn't the reason why the relationship ended. Just my opinion.

 

I agree with this. It just defies logic.

 

"I'm leaving you because you're too good!"

"I'm leaving this job because it pays too much!"

"I'm leaving this vacation early because I'm having too much fun!"

 

Nope.

[ascendotum]

I agree with this. It just defies logic.

 

"I'm leaving you because you're too good!"

"I'm leaving this job because it pays too much!"

"I'm leaving this vacation early because I'm having too much fun!"

 

Nope.

 

It depends on whats defined as good, and what is considered not good enough...and from who's perspective.

 

* Vacation - having a lot of fun partying but next year you decide to skip the hangovers + Stds + drugs + spending too much + coming back to work not really refreshed and instead have a relaxing stress free recovery vacation in the mountains. Both are good depending on what stage of life you are in or your mood at the time.

* Job - Great pay, but the long hours suck, plus the boss is an A-hole who blames us for things we don't control, and co-workers are back stabbers, and there is constant deadlines. Sure there great $ but can also a price to pay often. Depends on what stage in life you are are and your ability to handle stress.

* Person - Good in terms of being a good earning provider, is a good responsible father, does stuff around the house, but he is not very romantic or affectionate since the wife chubbed up plus he always has to be right in discussions plus he is uncaring and thinks his wife is a hypochondriac with her health problems. Good from his perspective & to others looking on, but not so much to the wife once she got over enjoying the material things in life.

[ForeverTainted]

Just because a woman is fair minded doesn't mean that she has a bias against her sex. People should look at the actual facts instead of just siding with your own kind. Nobody should get points because of how they are born.

 

But she isn't fair minded was my point. She is being a champion for men and ignoring the fact that their are just as many great wives being abandoned by their husbands. No current trend. It is just women are more likely to eventually leave than men. But you don't have to leave to abandon someone.

 

Not to mention more people do not seek counselling than do. And cousnelling does not always show what goes on in the home.

 

If the article was about male and females who do not stand up for themselves being abandoned I'd agree with it. This isn't a feminist issue. It is a society and gender neutral issue. Gender really is irrelevant when it comes to being spoiled, bored, self centered or what not.

[Woggle]

But she isn't fair minded was my point. She is being a champion for men and ignoring the fact that their are just as many great wives being abandoned by their husbands. No current trend. It is just women are more likely to eventually leave than men. But you don't have to leave to abandon someone.

 

Not to mention more people do not seek counselling than do. And cousnelling does not always show what goes on in the home.

 

If the article was about male and females who do not stand up for themselves being abandoned I'd agree with it. This isn't a feminist issue. It is a society and gender neutral issue. Gender really is irrelevant when it comes to being spoiled, bored, self centered or what not.

 

Of course there are women who are abandoned and we should address them as well but the stats are there when it comes to who initiates most divorces. I have seen it happen many times with the people around me.

[carhill]

IMO, I wouldn't reflect upon literal divorce statistics, like the majority of divorces being filed by women these days, as any clear determiner of who's abandoning the marriages. While the initial filing may be by a woman, it's impossible to know with any certainty the marital dynamics which precipitated that filing.

 

In our case, we agreed that my exW would file because she had better likelihood of gaining filing fee relief and getting help from the court, saving us money on the process, and we had worked out our settlement in advance of filing. So the fact that she filed, when she filed, didn't necessarily in and of itself indicate abandonment. Other couples have their own dynamics.

 

What I took away from the thrust of the author's statements was that younger men, I presume a generation or two younger than myself, have been listening to women and to their parents regarding the women's movement and its goals and adjusting behaviors and interactions to respect that movement and those goals and the women of those generations, at least those who sit across from her in session, are increasingly simply losing interest, not in a cruel or abusive way, rather an apathetic way. They just don't care about the men as husbands anymore. Friends and roommates perhaps, but not as a spouse. The 'whatever' is gone and they are at a loss to get it back.

 

I saw some of that in my M, especially after I started caregiving. Evidently, a man caring for his parent isn't seen as manly by some, especially any open displays of grief, uncertainty or frustration. This became quite unattractive, she said. I gave it my best shot for a couple years but in the end self-preservation took over and my obligation as a caregiver superseded the work to hit that moving target of attraction so I gave it up.

 

In the moment, I seriously doubt any woman *feels* she's abandoning a great husband. He's all sorts of negative and pejorative adjectives which reflect her *feelings*. Those are certainly valid. That's why there's her side, his side and the truth, which is what a good MC seeks to understand. The author provides her understanding as a four decades plus observer of marriages and what's gone on and what's changed. Is it applicable to everyone? Absolutely not. It's one opinion of one psychologist who's seen a speck of sand on the beach of couples on this planet. That said, the dynamics she speaks to are worthy of thought and reflection. Where are we going and what decisions and choices are we going to make?

[Woggle]

IMO, I wouldn't reflect upon literal divorce statistics, like the majority of divorces being filed by women these days, as any clear determiner of who's abandoning the marriages. While the initial filing may be by a woman, it's impossible to know with any certainty the marital dynamics which precipitated that filing.

 

In our case, we agreed that my exW would file because she had better likelihood of gaining filing fee relief and getting help from the court, saving us money on the process, and we had worked out our settlement in advance of filing. So the fact that she filed, when she filed, didn't necessarily in and of itself indicate abandonment. Other couples have their own dynamics.

 

What I took away from the thrust of the author's statements was that younger men, I presume a generation or two younger than myself, have been listening to women and to their parents regarding the women's movement and its goals and adjusting behaviors and interactions to respect that movement and those goals and the women of those generations, at least those who sit across from her in session, are increasingly simply losing interest, not in a cruel or abusive way, rather an apathetic way. They just don't care about the men as husbands anymore. Friends and roommates perhaps, but not as a spouse. The 'whatever' is gone and they are at a loss to get it back.

 

I saw some of that in my M, especially after I started caregiving. Evidently, a man caring for his parent isn't seen as manly by some, especially any open displays of grief, uncertainty or frustration. This became quite unattractive, she said. I gave it my best shot for a couple years but in the end self-preservation took over and my obligation as a caregiver superseded the work to hit that moving target of attraction so I gave it up.

 

In the moment, I seriously doubt any woman *feels* she's abandoning a great husband. He's all sorts of negative and pejorative adjectives which reflect her *feelings*. Those are certainly valid. That's why there's her side, his side and the truth, which is what a good MC seeks to understand. The author provides her understanding as a four decades plus observer of marriages and what's gone on and what's changed. Is it applicable to everyone? Absolutely not. It's one opinion of one psychologist who's seen a speck of sand on the beach of couples on this planet. That said, the dynamics she speaks to are worthy of thought and reflection. Where are we going and what decisions and choices are we going to make?

 

 

This and then we wonder why men are so emotionally closed off. How we are we supposed to show our emotions when it seems so often it backfires on us. Not saying every woman does this but it is not just a one in a million happening either.

[carhill]

IMO, with a compatible woman who is attracted elementally, showing your emotions will never, or rarely, 'backfire'. As a man, we must accept there are a lot of unknowns in the world and that our mission is to move forward, accepting them and focusing on our goals in life. If there's a loving spouse or partner at our side in that journey, that's a valued blessing. If we are abandoned, that's OK. We're still a whole person and our life goes on and has great meaning. Any of us, man or woman, can change the world. That's a pretty cool power to have.

[ForeverTainted]

I don't think anyone is completely fair minded. All of us come up with our ideas based on our individual experiences.

 

This is an excerpt from an article I found online about divorce.

 

"Two-Thirds of the Time

It’s the wife who files for divorce in about two-thirds of divorce cases, at least among couples who have children. According to the National Center for Health Statistics, the proportion has changed slightly over the years; for example, in 1975, approximately 72 percent of the divorces in the U.S. were filed by women, whereas by 1988, only about 65 percent were filed by women.

The Same throughout the 19th Century

A study reported in the American Law and Economics Review in 2000, "These Boots Are Made for Walking: Why Most Divorce Filers are Women" also showed that more recently, women file more than two-thirds of divorce cases in the US. Even though the individual states’ data vary somewhat and the numbers have fluctuated over time, throughout most of the 19th century about 60 percent of divorce filings were by women.

Moreover, in some of the states where no-fault divorce was introduced, over 70 percent of the divorce filings were by women. Among college-educated couples, the percentage of divorces initiated by wives is a whopping 90 percent."

 

 

 

 

This is definitely true. A counselor can only base their opinions on the people who actually seek counseling.

 

 

 

I agree that gender is irrelevant when it comes to certain issues, but when you see stats like this one "Among college-educated couples, the percentage of divorces initiated by wives is a whopping 90 percent." I start to think a little.

Divorce initiated by women does not prove this to be a growing trend. My friend finally filed for divorce because her husband was living with his OW. You want to group her into your example of great husbands being abandoned? What about women in physically abusive relationships? Want to group them in? Of course great husbands get abandoned by their wives. But trend? Hardly any reliable proof but mere opinion about that. Women are far more likely to actually divorce for their AP or even after they have cheated than men. The opposite happens of course but still men lead in cheating statistics.

 

A person who is providing a marriage counselling service should not be sexist. It is possible but if it isn't then that counsellor should reconsider their profession.

[Woggle]

Divorce initiated by women does not prove this to be a growing trend. My friend finally filed for divorce because her husband was living with his OW. You want to group her into your example of great husbands being abandoned? What about women in physically abusive relationships? Want to group them in? Of course great husbands get abandoned by their wives. But trend? Hardly any reliable proof but mere opinion about that. Women are far more likely to actually divorce for their AP or even after they have cheated than men. The opposite happens of course but still men lead in cheating statistics.

 

A person who is providing a marriage counselling service should not be sexist. It is possible but if it isn't then that counsellor should reconsider their profession.

 

Not always looking at things from a perspective of men=bad and women=victim does not make a person sexist. You don't have to always side with your own gender. In her profession I am sure she sees a trend and she addresses it.

[giotto]

Sure, anyone can have an opinion. Here's the nuance you're missing: when you speak about your performance in a role which structurally requires the approbation of another person, and you omit that person's evaluation as if it were irrelevant, it demonstrates profound cluelessness. Again, think: artist knows better than art customer? employee knows better than employer?

 

Or, can it be, the "great husbands" truly don't care whether their wives actually found them great. It's not important. And that right there proves how non-great the husband actually was.

 

Who says that your opinion needs approbation by another person? Or by the wife in case of a "great husband"? They both can be right or wrong. Doesn't mean anything. What we are talking about is the opinion of a therapist based on years of experience, which, according to you, is irrelevant.

[Discjockey80]

I don't think anyone is completely fair minded. All of us come up with our ideas based on our individual experiences.

 

This is an excerpt from an article I found online about divorce.

 

"Two-Thirds of the Time

It’s the wife who files for divorce in about two-thirds of divorce cases, at least among couples who have children. According to the National Center for Health Statistics, the proportion has changed slightly over the years; for example, in 1975, approximately 72 percent of the divorces in the U.S. were filed by women, whereas by 1988, only about 65 percent were filed by women.

The Same throughout the 19th Century

A study reported in the American Law and Economics Review in 2000, "These Boots Are Made for Walking: Why Most Divorce Filers are Women" also showed that more recently, women file more than two-thirds of divorce cases in the US. Even though the individual states’ data vary somewhat and the numbers have fluctuated over time, throughout most of the 19th century about 60 percent of divorce filings were by women.

Moreover, in some of the states where no-fault divorce was introduced, over 70 percent of the divorce filings were by women. Among college-educated couples, the percentage of divorces initiated by wives is a whopping 90 percent."

 

 

 

 

This is definitely true. A counselor can only base their opinions on the people who actually seek counseling.

 

 

 

I agree that gender is irrelevant when it comes to certain issues, but when you see stats like this one "Among college-educated couples, the percentage of divorces initiated by wives is a whopping 90 percent." I start to think a little.

 

 

I can tell you from what I see...there is a trend there in the last statistic about college educated couples and wives doing 90% of the divorcing. It stems form the fact that many of these women are getting married for 'conscious' and 'emotional' reasons and ignoring their sexuality. Effectively divorcing their sex from marriage. This is part of the new enlightened movement out there.

[ForeverTainted]

Not always looking at things from a perspective of men=bad and women=victim does not make a person sexist. You don't have to always side with your own gender. In her profession I am sure she sees a trend and she addresses it.

 

This doesn't make sense. The author is painting a picture that divorce is men=victim and women=evil. That guys being great hubands is getting them divorced. But who is she to say all these guys were great husbands and that is the reason for divorce. I'd never go to a counsellor who wants to be popular with the boys and then blame entirely one sex on the divorce rates. Thr article is mere opinion missing any susbstantial back up and really is only going to make sensitive guys thing something is wrong with them. Men and women do not fit neatly into little psychological babble boxes. But humans cram them in anyways.

[giotto]

This doesn't make sense. The author is painting a picture that divorce is men=victim and women=evil. That guys being great hubands is getting them divorced. But who is she to say all these guys were great husbands and that is the reason for divorce. I'd never go to a counsellor who wants to be popular with the boys and then blame entirely one sex on the divorce rates. Thr article is mere opinion missing any susbstantial back up and really is only going to make sensitive guys thing something is wrong with them. Men and women do not fit neatly into little psychological babble boxes. But humans cram them in anyways.

 

she is a clinical psychologist, marriage counselor, therapist with lots of years of experience. You can believe her or not. She is referring her experience in the job. Does she need back up? Do you need a full-blown study with 5,000 participants?

[carhill]

If anyone wants some insight into the person behind the article, it's easy enough to call her up (she's listed) or simply Google some search terms. I found googling 'randi gunther relationship saboteurs' to bring up some good insight on the person behind the author, in real life, including a few video interviews.

[angie2443]

People lie a lot. Especially conflict-avoidant people in a marriahe counselor's office.

"Yesh sure I listened to her feelings."

 

 

This is so true. Think of all the times in the infildality section that people are advised to avoid couneling if they think or know their partner is cheating. Why? If the partner is cheating, they'll lie or omit important information so as to project a better image of themselves. People lie, omit, or fudge the truth in marriage counseling for many other reasons. Also, some people can only see things from their position. The only way to know the complete truth of the situation is to be that fly on the wall, and stay on that wall for a few months at least.

 

Too many people assume that since someone has a degree and many years working in a field, that their word must be law. Sorry, even the "experts" don't know everything.

[angie2443]

I saw some of that in my M, especially after I started caregiving. Evidently, a man caring for his parent isn't seen as manly by some, especially any open displays of grief, uncertainty or frustration. This became quite unattractive, she said. I gave it my best shot for a couple years but in the end self-preservation took over and my obligation as a caregiver superseded the work to hit that moving target of attraction so I gave it up.

 

?

 

 

I don't know all the details of your situation, but my situation had some simularities. My mother has been in and out of hospitals all her life. She's been homeless a couple of times till one of my siblings managed to find her and help her get back into a group home. This year, it was my turn. We took my mother in after she had an episode. When she stayed with us, she was mostly out of the way in the attic (furnished and all). Still, the whole situation caused me pain, anger, fear for her, and all sorts of other baggage. My husband hated it. He never called me unattractive or un-womanly because I was taking care of my mom, but he resented the time I gave to her. He seemed angry at me for every little thing and seemed to be annoyed by my presense. I could not understand his reaction (and still can't). I can make lots of guesses, but I'll never really know why the change in family dynamic angered him so much. She was with us for about four months untill we found a home for her. After she left, everything returned to normal.

 

I'm kind of comparing our situations, and wondering- was it really that your ex found you as less manly after watching you take care of your mother, or was it for another reason? I think sometimes it's hard to tell. I've seen marriages struggle when one partner takes in a relative to take care of. Most of the time, it was the woman in the relationship that took on the care of someone in her family. I guess that's just how it's usually done.

 

I'm wondering if it's just naturally to blame certain issues on gender when the problem is much more complicated.

[carhill]

No clue. As I often mention on these forums, one has absolutely no way to read another's mind. We generally go by words and actions. More recent interactions, outlined above, lead me to believe that the main issue I perceived through hearing words and actions was authentic, that being not being perceived as adequately strong and attractive in the carer role. As an only child whose father had been dead for decades, the responsibility was mine. I think some of this reflection of late on exW's part has stemmed from her now being in a carer role of her mother, even though she has plenty of sibling help available. Perhaps she gets it now. IDK. Water long under the bridge.

 

That said, I don't think the article was talking about my generation at all, rather those one or two younger. I expect women of my generation to be turned off by a man who is not strong in the traditional ways men are strong, especially a man who does women's work (in our generation) like caregiving. Women are the nurturers, men are the providers and the strong shoulders to lean upon. I noted the author didn't mention anecdotes from her (presuming she's late 60's or so) or my generation as the males of those generation don't tend to fall into the outlines she provided for the article. Hence, of the face of it, my anecdote would fail because a woman of my exW's generation should not be expected to want to remain married to a man who's not behaving in a manner which inspires attraction by her generational standards. It's OK if she does but she isn't outlier by any stretch if she doesn't (remain attracted). Upon reflection, I think she did the right thing, for her. Hopefully, the guy she's been with since we split up is a better match in that regard. More traditionally male.

 

Myself, I just roll with the real. This isn't the hill that I want to die on. Not worth it.

[dichotomy]

This is so true. Think of all the times in the infildality section that people are advised to avoid couneling if they think or know their partner is cheating. Why? If the partner is cheating, they'll lie or omit important information so as to project a better image of themselves. People lie, omit, or fudge the truth in marriage counseling for many other reasons. Also, some people can only see things from their position. The only way to know the complete truth of the situation is to be that fly on the wall, and stay on that wall for a few months at least.

 

Too many people assume that since someone has a degree and many years working in a field, that their word must be law. Sorry, even the "experts" don't know everything.

 

True - but....

 

Unless of course all three people - the therapist, the wife, and the husband all agree - "ya he is a pretty great husband". It happens, believe me. In fact the author goes on to say some of the wives left and turned around when the grass was not greener.

 

Remember the author is counseling a couple - and if the husband is saying "I am amazing!"...the wife is going to put her complaints out there.

 

Most of the good therapist I know can really drive down each spouse and get to the bottom of things - especially when both are in the session putting their issues out there and there are many followup sessions.

 

Oh they may lie about cheating, and thats hard to find out, but two people sitting before you telling you their sides of their marriage - you get a picture after a while.

Edited August 29, 2014 by dichotomy

[SJC2008]

But she isn't fair minded was my point. She is being a champion for men and ignoring the fact that their are just as many great wives being abandoned by their husbands. No current trend. It is just women are more likely to eventually leave than men. But you don't have to leave to abandon someone.

 

Not to mention more people do not seek counselling than do. And cousnelling does not always show what goes on in the home.

 

If the article was about male and females who do not stand up for themselves being abandoned I'd agree with it. This isn't a feminist issue. It is a society and gender neutral issue. Gender really is irrelevant when it comes to being spoiled, bored, self centered or what not.

 

The focus of the article is on men getting left by women so why would you want "equality" when the artie isn't even about women? This is a very rarely discussed issue in gender relations and your calling the author bias? This is feminism. Women aren't the only victims honey and the author doesn't have to "bring it back" in the article and say good women get left. Do you know why? Because that's not what the article is about. You cannot criticize women in the western world whatsoever.

[SoleMate]

You cannot criticize women in the western world whatsoever.

You sure as heck can on Loveshack! In fact, it's non-stop.

 

Let's try again: Any person who says, "I am (or was) a great spouse, and my (ex)spouse's opinion to the contrary doesn't change the fact of my greatness" is deluding him or herself.

[giotto]

 

Let's try again: Any person who says, "I am (or was) a great spouse, and my (ex)spouse's opinion to the contrary doesn't change the fact of my greatness" is deluding him or herself.

 

who's saying that? The context is couples counselling... it's not the husbands saying that, but the therapist, based on her experience. Not sure why you keep insisting it's the husbands saying "look at how great I am"...

[Thegameoflife]

I think the article should be "why catering husbands get abandoned". I think they call them great husbands because they are exactly what their wife asked for. Once they got what they wanted, they realized they didn't want that.

 

The biggest problem that always unfolds is that people don't create relationships that are in line with their sexual dynamics. You can't have a dominant guy who'll rock your world and then want to make him a catering man that you can order around. Women lose sexual drive towards their husbands because they can't dominate a man in a relationship and then trick themselves to believe their husband is dominant during sex. That's a futile conflict.

[SoleMate]

Let me do something the author of that fact-free article should have done before she wrote it: Define "great husband". So here goes:

 

A great husband:

 

• Meets his wife's most important emotional needs (EN)
  
• Knows what his wife's most important EN are
  
• Uses her definition of her EN rather than substituting his own
  

 

I'm using the concept of EN from Willard Harley's His Needs, Her Needs.

[Thegameoflife]

Let me do something the author of that fact-free article should have done before she wrote it: Define "great husband". So here goes:

 

A great husband:

 

• Meets his wife's most important emotional needs (EN)
  
• Knows what his wife's most important EN are
  
• Uses her definition of her EN rather than substituting his own
  

 

I'm using the concept of EN from Willard Harley's His Needs, Her Needs.

 

I have met very few women who are self aware enough to communicate their emotional needs.