Still sucks 2 years out

[dichotomy]

We had the declining sex life too, although she denies it now. She even spoke to her doctor about it and told the doctor I would have to deal with it (laughing) if it meant she would need hormone meds. I never mentioned it then, but it spoke volumes to me that she laughed it off as something I "just had to deal with". I dealt with it, but it became one more thing, after finding out the truth about the ONS & lies.

 

 

Please expand on this - how often and what type of sex are you having now - and when did it take a nose dive?

 

Just want to make sure that the decline has not gone into sexless marriage and this is providing fuel to the fire. A happy or unhappy marriage can do much to heal or fester old issues.

[revelations]

Sadly enough a lot of people think just because it happened 18yrs or (In your case tough love) 21yrs ago that it should not matter at all. Well it is easy to think that way until you find yourself in the situation. I am wondering how tough love's wife would react if he had said to her "Well I have to confess also, around the same time I banged this real hot cheerleader". I am pretty sure that tough love's wife would have had a melt down of some sorts. Like I had said before I would have walk away and it would have been mostly over being lied to for so long. Tough love does not want to do that and I can understand why. However tough love does need to feel that his pain needs to be acknowledged and that his wife pays a price for her actions, right now he has neither.

 

LuckyLady13 has nailed it when it comes down to how tough love is feeling. His feelings are not wrong they are perfectly normal. Yes tough love may want to just drop it. The trouble is that he has learned that not only was he lied to, he was tricked into marry a woman he probably would not have married. He has been learning more and more on what kind of a liar he is married to. I came up with the advice that tough love's wife should get a job (Not in your shop, someplace else) and pay for the MC and IC out of her own pocket. That way she is taking responsibility for her actions. Tough love's wife should be paying for these sessions, she should be making amends to him (I don't care how long ago it was) and she should be doing everything she can to convince tough love to stay. 21yrs ago should not matter my a$$, what if she gave him an STD then what?, what if she had gotten pregnant? Still think that it does not matter? Do you still think it does not matter that she has lied to him for 21yrs?

 

Tough love wants to stay and I'll support him in that. However he does need to have his feeling acknowledged by his wife. His wife should be moving mountains to make this up to tough love. Tough love's wife is lucky she is not married to someone like me. Even with kids and all of that, I'd wait until they were out of the house and I'd be gone, retirement and all. Most of you may say that is wrong, however in my book a woman doing this does not deserve crap. She did not earn it or anything else she lied to this poor guy, tricked him and basically stole his life. This is why I stay away from women today. They feel it is okay to lie to their man. They feel it is okay to trick their man. They feel that they deserve his income simply by being their. If a woman makes a mistake it is no big deal and men should get over it. If a man makes a mistake the world comes to an end. I come on to forums like this one to remind me why most women today are not datable. Tough love wants to stay for his own reasons. However for him those reasons get harder to find when dealing with a woman that will simply dismiss him. Myself she would be explaining to me why it is no big deal, while I'm in Costa Rica banging a couple of escorts.

 

Bottom line is that cheating is cheating no matter if it happened yesterday or 40 years ago. For tough love the cheating may have happened 21yrs ago however he just learned about it 2yrs ago. Do any of you think that is something easy to live with? Anyone who does is a fool in my book and probably would not feel the same if they were in tough love's shoes. I found out out my xWW cheating roughly 13yrs after the fact and I kicked her sorry butt to the curb. I give credit to tough love for trying to stay with his wife. However make no mistake that he is hurting over this and probably hurting more over the lie than anything else. Hopefully eventually his wife will step up and be a real woman and make it up to tough love and do the heavy lifting. From where I sit, I would not hold my breath that tough love's wife will do this. Hopefully tough love you will learn to start doing things for yourself and on your own. Always think of and include your kids, however leave the wife out of it. If your staying then you really need to think of yourself and take care of yourself, because the wife is not doing that. I wish you the best tough love, I for one know what you are doing is very difficult. You did nothing wrong to deserve a wife like that and she did nothing right to deserve a great man like you. I know I seem like I come down hard on your wife and believe me it is not to offend you tough love. However I came down equally as hard on some guy cheating on his wife and I ended up getting banned over it for a week . So just because I leave women alone does not mean that I don't call a spade a spade. If you want you can read my rant here. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/475966-ww-s-some-damage-you-have-caused-rant

 

I hope everything works out for you and I hope that I have helped you in some way.

[tough love]

Then be careful not to break her in your pursuit of perfection. Be gentle, and be ready to forgo some sharp edges of the past.

And coffee every morning?.. oh lovely heaven hopefully you'd reciprocate well.

 

I am trying to let it go & forget about it. I don't expect perfection and I know I am not perfect. I have put my foot in my mouth or done things I am not proud of (I have always been faithful & honest to her). I have made tasteless jokes and apologized immediately. If I thought there was even a remote chance of offending her or thought she may be uncomfortable with something, I didn't do it and never even mentioned it to her. I took it upon myself to not do anything that would offend her. But, I am not perfect and have made comments that hurt her feelings. So, to be clear, IMO, to expect or demand perfection is unrealistic. I don't think expecting your spouse to be faithful and honest is asking too much.

 

I am not sure I get your last comment and may misinterpret. I do appreciate the things she does (like making coffee) and don't expect her to do it. I tell her how special I think it is that she does these things. I do reciprocate with flowers, gifts, worked multiple jobs so she could have the job she wanted at home raising the kids (which I know is hard work and definitely more important than my work), writing her little notes, etc....

[tough love]

You say that you want her to admit being a liar, and you want her to change from now on.

 

Well, what happens if she doesn't admit? and if she doesn't change? Because you wrote here terrible things about her. If I were you. and felt the way you do to your wife, I would leave.

 

if you can't put it all behind you - I dont understand why are you staying. If you decide to stay, so stay. But it seems that you decided to stay, but with one foot on the fence.

 

I think you should make a serious rethinking about it. It's a new decision:

This is HER, for good and for bad.

 

Do you choose her including her flaws? Including her PAST? If you choose her again - it's also your job to come clean and fresh.

 

You are right, I have chosen to stay. She has good qualities that I think we can build on and we can be happy. I wouldn't want to work on it if I thought there was nothing there or nothing to work with.

 

I am venting on here after having some triggers. I don't think she is a terrible person but she did do some terrible things that affected MY life. I am not making the stuff up & what I have stated is fact about what she did. How I feel about it is how I feel. I wish it didn't bother me as much. If I knew for certain she was still lying, I would leave. I have stated I wanted us to get everything out (including any questions she had about me) now, so we can resolve them in counseling. I don't have the strength or desire to go through this again in the future if I find out she didn't come clean.

 

I was actually doing really well until some triggers. I felt like I had turned the corner about 6-7 months prior. I still thought about it and mentioned it at times, but felt like we were in a good place. I had multiple triggers in the past month & a half or so and I have back slid. I think I will make progress again and be even better than

[beatcuff]

Although I can try and understand your hurt and anger it troubles me that the pain is still so vibrant after 2 years. My thought is a simpleone, swallow your pride and forgive your wife.

 

OP i'm seconding this...

 

your questions/feeling are understandable and if this were a couple of days/weeks after d-day fine. the fact you are 'holding' on this for 2 years, is very troubling. YOU need to fix this in YOUR mind (not her issue).

 

there was another thread a couple of months ago similar to your question that had a lively discussion --- that OP admitted W was a great wife during the following 20+ years. the prevailing opinion was to focus on the last 20 years not one night (over 20 years ago).

 

so the question is simple are you willing toss what you NOW have. because if you keep bringing it up eventually SHE will have enough and make the decision for you.

[tough love]

We had the declining sex life too, although she denies it now. She even spoke to her doctor about it and told the doctor I would have to deal with it (laughing) if it meant she would need hormone meds. I never mentioned it then, but it spoke volumes to me that she laughed it off as something I "just had to deal with". I dealt with it, but it became one more thing, after finding out the truth about the ONS & lies.

 

 

Please expand on this - how often and what type of sex are you having now - and when did it take a nose dive?

 

Just want to make sure that the decline has not gone into sexless marriage and this is providing fuel to the fire. A happy or unhappy marriage can do much to heal or fester old issues.

 

The sex had gone to once every few weeks with me initiating 99% of the time and being shot down most times I would try to initiate. She says we were having sex at least once a week. I know there were many times we went over a month without sex.

 

Believe it or not, the best our sex life was, since our honeymoon phase, was right after I confronted her about whether she had cheated (I questioned her because she had been talking in her sleep). Our sex life improved tremendously right after that (she denied cheating at that point) and was the best it had ever been. Looking back, I don't know if she felt guilty or was trying to throw me off. Even now, our sex life is better than it was before I confronted her. I would say we have a good sex life now.

[tough love]

Sadly enough a lot of people think just because it happened 18yrs or (In your case tough love) 21yrs ago that it should not matter at all. Well it is easy to think that way until you find yourself in the situation. I am wondering how tough love's wife would react if he had said to her "Well I have to confess also, around the same time I banged this real hot cheerleader". I am pretty sure that tough love's wife would have had a melt down of some sorts. Like I had said before I would have walk away and it would have been mostly over being lied to for so long. Tough love does not want to do that and I can understand why. However tough love does need to feel that his pain needs to be acknowledged and that his wife pays a price for her actions, right now he has neither.

 

LuckyLady13 has nailed it when it comes down to how tough love is feeling. His feelings are not wrong they are perfectly normal. Yes tough love may want to just drop it. The trouble is that he has learned that not only was he lied to, he was tricked into marry a woman he probably would not have married. He has been learning more and more on what kind of a liar he is married to. I came up with the advice that tough love's wife should get a job (Not in your shop, someplace else) and pay for the MC and IC out of her own pocket. That way she is taking responsibility for her actions. Tough love's wife should be paying for these sessions, she should be making amends to him (I don't care how long ago it was) and she should be doing everything she can to convince tough love to stay. 21yrs ago should not matter my a$$, what if she gave him an STD then what?, what if she had gotten pregnant? Still think that it does not matter? Do you still think it does not matter that she has lied to him for 21yrs?

 

Tough love wants to stay and I'll support him in that. However he does need to have his feeling acknowledged by his wife. His wife should be moving mountains to make this up to tough love. Tough love's wife is lucky she is not married to someone like me. Even with kids and all of that, I'd wait until they were out of the house and I'd be gone, retirement and all. Most of you may say that is wrong, however in my book a woman doing this does not deserve crap. She did not earn it or anything else she lied to this poor guy, tricked him and basically stole his life. This is why I stay away from women today. They feel it is okay to lie to their man. They feel it is okay to trick their man. They feel that they deserve his income simply by being their. If a woman makes a mistake it is no big deal and men should get over it. If a man makes a mistake the world comes to an end. I come on to forums like this one to remind me why most women today are not datable. Tough love wants to stay for his own reasons. However for him those reasons get harder to find when dealing with a woman that will simply dismiss him. Myself she would be explaining to me why it is no big deal, while I'm in Costa Rica banging a couple of escorts.

 

Bottom line is that cheating is cheating no matter if it happened yesterday or 40 years ago. For tough love the cheating may have happened 21yrs ago however he just learned about it 2yrs ago. Do any of you think that is something easy to live with? Anyone who does is a fool in my book and probably would not feel the same if they were in tough love's shoes. I found out out my xWW cheating roughly 13yrs after the fact and I kicked her sorry butt to the curb. I give credit to tough love for trying to stay with his wife. However make no mistake that he is hurting over this and probably hurting more over the lie than anything else. Hopefully eventually his wife will step up and be a real woman and make it up to tough love and do the heavy lifting. From where I sit, I would not hold my breath that tough love's wife will do this. Hopefully tough love you will learn to start doing things for yourself and on your own. Always think of and include your kids, however leave the wife out of it. If your staying then you really need to think of yourself and take care of yourself, because the wife is not doing that. I wish you the best tough love, I for one know what you are doing is very difficult. You did nothing wrong to deserve a wife like that and she did nothing right to deserve a great man like you. I know I seem like I come down hard on your wife and believe me it is not to offend you tough love. However I came down equally as hard on some guy cheating on his wife and I ended up getting banned over it for a week . So just because I leave women alone does not mean that I don't call a spade a spade. If you want you can read my rant here. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/475966-ww-s-some-damage-you-have-caused-rant

 

I hope everything works out for you and I hope that I have helped you in some way.

 

She says that she would not be upset if she found out now, that I had cheated that long ago, before marriage or found out now that I had lied about things that were important to her. Maybe she means it or maybe she HAS to say that because admitting she would be upset validates my feelings. I know she has been bothered when I have helped family members with tasks when we needed something fixed at home that I had already set a date that I would make our repairs. As soon as I realized it bothered her, I did apologize and made the repair before the date we had originally set. So, based on her reaction to this type of thing, I don't think she would be okay with finding out I cheated or lied about something SHE felt was important.

 

Funny you mention STD's and pregnancy. She swears he wore a condom but also swears he didn't cum. For the life of me I can't figure out how she can be so sure he didn't cum if he had a condom on. Right about the time of the ONS, she went on the pill. We also had a pregnancy scare about 3-4 months after this. I don't know if the baby would have been mine or not. She isn't sure when she actually cheated. there is a two month window when she thinks it happened and I don't remember for sure when we had the pregnancy scare, other than knowing it was early in the following semester of school.

 

She has done some stuff to try and show me she was being honest now, but she didn't really offer or volunteer. I think she did these things because she knew I doubted whether she had cheated on me more times and during marriage and that I was really ready to leave because I had serious doubts.

 

I have chosen to stay because I do love my wife. I HATE that I can't stop thinking about what she has done and the lies. This is the exact reason I was always clear, prior to and after marriage, that I would rather know the truth than be played for a fool. She is better than me for being able to drop things and leave them in the past. I can do that and have done that if I am not lied to about it first. She has done stuff she knew I wouldn't be bothered by since then and told me immediately. I thanked her for being honest and it was the end of it and I dropped it because she was honest. I appreciated that she was honest about it.

[ForeverTainted]

Your question about the condom is confusing. Of course you can tell, have you never came in a condom? Plus her version of events is she stopped it and he was mad. He likely wouldn't be mad if he had finished. I'm not saying she is telling the truth. I am saying I most certainly know when a guy comes condom or not. And if a guy fakes it and turns away fast before I can see the juice filled condom. Then that'd be on the guy not me.

 

Gently as possible why does this all matter? You say she lies about everything and you can't trust her. Marriage without trust is no place to live forever. You may love her but that won't last on your current road. The animosity, lack of communication will only get worse if you keep on like this.

[tough love]

OP i'm seconding this...

 

your questions/feeling are understandable and if this were a couple of days/weeks after d-day fine. the fact you are 'holding' on this for 2 years, is very troubling. YOU need to fix this in YOUR mind (not her issue).

 

there was another thread a couple of months ago similar to your question that had a lively discussion --- that OP admitted W was a great wife during the following 20+ years. the prevailing opinion was to focus on the last 20 years not one night (over 20 years ago).

 

so the question is simple are you willing toss what you NOW have. because if you keep bringing it up eventually SHE will have enough and make the decision for you.

 

I hear you and am trying to do this, forget the past, focus on the 20+ years that we had that were good, with happy times, and count our many blessings. I can't help but wonder what things would be like if I had known the truth. I was doing well and we were in a fairly good place.

 

I also think, it would have been so nice have dealt with these issue right away with my wife so I would know we were truly meant to be together and we both chose to be together with all the info. Reality is finding out six months before our wedding would most likely have been a deal breaker.

 

The lying is worse for me than the actual ONS (but the ONS does bother me too).

[ForeverTainted]

The problem with dwelling on "what could have been" for this long is there is no answer. You may have forgiven her or not. Or after some time got back together. Or you may found someone who doesn't have a lying problem. Had completely different kids or none at all. Maybe this wife would have been a better fit. Or maybe not. Maybe she wouldn't have done anything around the house or cheated during the marriage or just divorced you.

 

You don't know and you will never know. So whether this current marriage is salvaged or not you really should stop torturing yourself with what ifs. They never help because no one knows the what ifs.

[tough love]

Your question about the condom is confusing. Of course you can tell, have you never came in a condom? Plus her version of events is she stopped it and he was mad. He likely wouldn't be mad if he had finished. I'm not saying she is telling the truth. I am saying I most certainly know when a guy comes condom or not. And if a guy fakes it and turns away fast before I can see the juice filled condom. Then that'd be on the guy not me.

 

Gently as possible why does this all matter? You say she lies about everything and you can't trust her. Marriage without trust is no place to live forever. You may love her but that won't last on your current road. The animosity, lack of communication will only get worse if you keep on like this.

 

What you say about the condom makes sense to me now. Thanks.

 

It matters because I have asked for specific details as to who initiated and she says she can't remember, but she remembers stopping him and she remembers him using a condom. For me, it seems like she has selective memory loss. It matters because I don't want to be lied to anymore. Honesty is important to me and she knew this from the beginning of our relationship.

 

I do think she has gotten better with honesty now. I give her credit for that. It has to be scary for her now to tell me the truth about something she thinks may upset me. I try to thank her now, for her honesty and may say what she is admitting to bothers me, but I am glad she told me. I think we can work through anything if we are honest with each other and give the benefit of the dow I also ask that she let me know what she needs from me if I am not meeting her needs. She needs me to not keep talking about this because it makes her feel bad and beats her down, so I am on here. I don't want to make her feel bad about herself and I RECOGNIZE I need to move past it for me more than for her. I honestly feel better today than yesterday because I am able to get things off my chest and I feel much better than I did 5 days ago.

[tough love]

The problem with dwelling on "what could have been" for this long is there is no answer. You may have forgiven her or not. Or after some time got back together. Or you may found someone who doesn't have a lying problem. Had completely different kids or none at all. Maybe this wife would have been a better fit. Or maybe not. Maybe she wouldn't have done anything around the house or cheated during the marriage or just divorced you.

 

You don't know and you will never know. So whether this current marriage is salvaged or not you really should stop torturing yourself with what ifs. They never help because no one knows the what ifs.

 

I also recognize my wife may have found a better fit for her too. Someone she didn't cheat on and was honest to.

 

Thanks, you are right, we will never know what could of been. Maybe this is the best relationship we could both be in. I always thought we had the PERFECT relationship and that is what gives me hope that we can get through this.

 

She has done things that have hurt me and to have it minimized isn't fair and it wouldn't be fair for me to minimize her feelings when I have hurt them. I have apologized repeatedly if, for example, I told her that I didn't like an outfit and she was hurt by that. I feel I should apologize and make it up to her if I hurt her feelings. The last thing I want to do is hurt her feelings or make her feel bad (again, why I am on here instead of talking with her about this).

 

She has also has MANY good qualities that I try, and need to try harder, to focus on. Some of these traits might be considered trivial but they are things I appreciate. I couldn't ask for a better mother to our kids, she is an amazing cook, she is more forgiving than I am (which I envy and want to change), she makes me coffee when she doesn't even like it herself (this is special because she doesn't have to do this), etc....

[compulsivedancer]

I get being upset about the trickle truth and the lies. She absolutely should have told you when you confronted her. The trickle truth makes it that much harder to believe she's telling the truth now.

 

I just think that you're suddenly regretting your entire 20 years of marriage for something that clearly was not a pattern of behavior during the last twenty years, but was a brief interlude before you were married, during college, which is a time of exploration for a lot of people. She may very well have been exploring prior to being serious about you, and once she became serious about you, she changed her ways and committed. That doesn't excuse the lying or the cheating at all, but it does make it kind of weird for her to be punished (no drinking, etc) today for something that happened two decades ago.

 

If she's truly had a pattern of lying over the years, then yes, I understand your concern. But are you sure you're not looking for a pattern that isn't there - taking insignificant moments and turning them into something more?

 

As far as wondering if you could each find someone better suited to you, it seems like you've had a wonderful relationship all these years. Yes, there was a small section of foundation that is not laid right, but your house is still standing. Don't demolish the house when you can call a repair guy.

[oldshirt]

Any chance you have been losing a lot of feelings and falling out of love with her for some time and are grasping at this as a justification for closing off your feelings even more and moving on?

 

I get the feeling that there is some rewriting of history taking place here.

[tough love]

I get being upset about the trickle truth and the lies. She absolutely should have told you when you confronted her. The trickle truth makes it that much harder to believe she's telling the truth now.

 

I just think that you're suddenly regretting your entire 20 years of marriage for something that clearly was not a pattern of behavior during the last twenty years, but was a brief interlude before you were married, during college, which is a time of exploration for a lot of people. She may very well have been exploring prior to being serious about you, and once she became serious about you, she changed her ways and committed. That doesn't excuse the lying or the cheating at all, but it does make it kind of weird for her to be punished (no drinking, etc) today for something that happened two decades ago.

 

If she's truly had a pattern of lying over the years, then yes, I understand your concern. But are you sure you're not looking for a pattern that isn't there - taking insignificant moments and turning them into something more?

I don't think the cheating was a 20 year pattern, but I disagree that there is no patterns of behavior over the past 20 years. I think I view the lies as a definite pattern of behavior that WAS consistent over the past 20 years. Some lies were insignificant on their own and I have admitted that on their own they are insignificant, some lies were significant to me but maybe not to someone else and some would be significant to most people. The lying didn't happen two decades ago. It would still be going on had it not been for me pushing the issue two years ago. I think this is a sticking point with me as it seems to be suggested by her that the only issue is the ONS from 20+ years ago and the lying, to her, is a non-issue. So when I process this in my head, should I just be prepared that she will always lie if something big happens, considering the only thing she seems to think was wrong was the cheating and doesn't really acknowledge that it was wrong to lie and trickle truth me? The lies are much worse than the ONS because the ONS was unplanned and a moment of weakness. The lies were thought out and planned with the intent to trick me into staying in a relationship she believed I would end if I had all the facts. I don't trust her honesty because she lied recently, not just 20 years ago. I trust she isn't going to go out and cheat on me because the ONS happened 20+ years ago and not recently or throughout our marriage.

 

What makes anybody think they are entitled to make an informed decision and manipulate another person into making life choices they would otherwise not make? Do they think what they want is the only thing that matters? Are they better than the other person that only they get to know the truth and make informed choices?

 

I presented the following hypothetical scenario to my wife... How would she react to me telling her two weeks after we are married that we are moving across the country or to another country? I have a job opportunity to work less, make more and have a beach front house. She gets no say, I knew about this before marrying her, knew she wouldn't want to marry me if I told her we were moving away from family so I just hid it from her. No response from her because it is "different" than being cheated on. It is different because this issue would be important to HER (which I get), just like knowing the truth was important to ME.

 

 

I don't have an issue with her drinking with me, so it isn't as if she is prohibited from drinking. The MC actually recommended that she should not be in those situations without me, around alcohol. I don't trust her to be honest because of the lies throughout our relationship. I don't think she would cheat now. For what it is worth, I am not doing things on my own that I am not comfortable with her doing. I don't go drinking or hit up strip clubs with the guys.

 

I am regretting being tricked into believing she was being honest with me and would never, ever do anything to hurt me (her words). I feel like a fool for buying it all. I feel weak for having a difficult time dealing with it. I don't regret all of the past 20 years. After all, I have amazing kids that are part of that and we do have happy memories as a family.

 

I did say, and will repeat, we have many good things to build on or I wouldn't still be with her. I do refuse to stay in a relationship that involves me being deceived over & over & over. I have been clear about that in counseling that she needs to come clean now because I am NOT doing this again if I find out later that there were more skeletons that we should deal with now.

[LuckyLady13]

Tough Love, I have a question. I just read through the posts and I might be off on this slightly but didn't you say you were doing good for quite a while (like 7-8 months)? What were you doing different at the time?

 

Sounds like her parents taught her how to place blame on others and redirect peoples attention away from her mistakes. And they are doing it to this day. There are a lot of parents like that out in the world.

 

I've noticed from everything you said that your self-esteem is shot down and you're having a lot of trouble knowing how you're supposed to feel, partly because you're scouring every detail of what your wife did and said in search of a satisfying truth but also because her parents have said some things that made you have to defend yourself and you're not the one who should be doing the defending here.

 

Coffee isn't that big of a deal, Tough Love. I make coffee every day. It's real easy to do. Taking care of your kids? That's a big deal but the tiny other breadcrumbs you've got from her you are so over-appreciative of and people only get that way when they aren't being treated well enough by people.

 

Your self-esteem took a lot of hits close together and as strong as you may be, it did effect you.

 

A lot of the things you felt were right on and normal but you had people around you trying to dodge things, put it on you, you already felt bad and confused and angry at the time but guilty? That, you should NEVER feel about this.

 

I like a lot of things other people have been saying to you and I think it's easy to see from your response to people that the cobwebs are starting to get shaken out and you feel at least somewhat better.

 

I think your main issue right now is re-building your self-esteem and having people acknowledging what went on and how it made you feel is such a huge part of that. You said your parents have their own issues to deal with so they don't know what's going on so you didn't have much of a support system, from what I understand, and the in-laws calling you a sinner?

 

You were right all along about so much stuff once you started realizing you were lied to and the rollercoaster...or should I say chaos of emotion that hit you after that was understandable and natural.

 

Even if you were the absolute perfect husband and father and even boyfriend way back, that's not going to make you invincible to people lying to you. I know you feel that you deserve the same treatment you were giving and you're right. You earned it. You deserve it. But that doesn't mean you'll actually get it.

 

It's time to start building your self-esteem back up (and blow off that sinner comment). Your wife isn't who you wished she was and who you thought she was. Grieve that nearly perfect woman, she's been dead two years, and start working on being with the woman you're with right now.

[HereNorThere]

OP, it's time to let go of this obsession because you DO have a good wife and have had a happy life. The person that did this was a kid and kids do stupid stuff. I think we all have things we've done in the past that we would hate to have to pay for 20 years later.

 

At this point you're exhibiting obsessive compulsive, anxiety ridden traits and if you don't stop, you'll end losing yourself, your partner and eventually your sanity. Was it a bad deal, yup, but would you not still love and forgive a 19 year old child for doing something wrong? The human brain is not even fully formed at that age and has a tendency to be rather narcissistic and impulsive. It may have been that incident that sparked her to be a better person and eventually a really good wife. Your whole life may have been WORSE if she hadn't done that; you'll never really know.

 

You love her, so let it go man. If you had some sort of proof that she cheated during your marriage, I might tell you differently. You're bringing up stuff that happened when you were kids and trying to make a completely different person pay for it.

 

Let it go, man. See a doctor and get your anxiety and obsessive thought under control, forgive and free yourself by moving on. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your family. You'd jump in front of a train for them, I'm sure, so you can do this when you make the choice.

[tough love]

Tough Love, I have a question. I just read through the posts and I might be off on this slightly but didn't you say you were doing good for quite a while (like 7-8 months)? What were you doing different at the time?

 

Sounds like her parents taught her how to place blame on others and redirect peoples attention away from her mistakes. And they are doing it to this day. There are a lot of parents like that out in the world.

 

I've noticed from everything you said that your self-esteem is shot down and you're having a lot of trouble knowing how you're supposed to feel, partly because you're scouring every detail of what your wife did and said in search of a satisfying truth but also because her parents have said some things that made you have to defend yourself and you're not the one who should be doing the defending here.

 

Coffee isn't that big of a deal, Tough Love. I make coffee every day. It's real easy to do. Taking care of your kids? That's a big deal but the tiny other breadcrumbs you've got from her you are so over-appreciative of and people only get that way when they aren't being treated well enough by people.

 

Your self-esteem took a lot of hits close together and as strong as you may be, it did effect you.

 

A lot of the things you felt were right on and normal but you had people around you trying to dodge things, put it on you, you already felt bad and confused and angry at the time but guilty? That, you should NEVER feel about this.

 

I like a lot of things other people have been saying to you and I think it's easy to see from your response to people that the cobwebs are starting to get shaken out and you feel at least somewhat better.

 

I think your main issue right now is re-building your self-esteem and having people acknowledging what went on and how it made you feel is such a huge part of that. You said your parents have their own issues to deal with so they don't know what's going on so you didn't have much of a support system, from what I understand, and the in-laws calling you a sinner?

 

You were right all along about so much stuff once you started realizing you were lied to and the rollercoaster...or should I say chaos of emotion that hit you after that was understandable and natural.

 

Even if you were the absolute perfect husband and father and even boyfriend way back, that's not going to make you invincible to people lying to you. I know you feel that you deserve the same treatment you were giving and you're right. You earned it. You deserve it. But that doesn't mean you'll actually get it.

 

It's time to start building your self-esteem back up (and blow off that sinner comment). Your wife isn't who you wished she was and who you thought she was. Grieve that nearly perfect woman, she's been dead two years, and start working on being with the woman you're with right now.

I was doing better for the past 7-8 months without any melt downs for about 3 months. Father's Day was the dday anniversary. We were on vacation on dday and again this past Father's Day (dday anniversary) and we have had our wedding and dating anniversary recently. I thought I was doing okay and I think the dday anniversary, being on vacation and our wedding & dating anniversary all hit me harder than expected. It never occurred to me that these dates would trigger me.

 

You nailed it again. I have been told (right after finding out) that I was over reacting and I did question myself, my reactions, how strong of a man I am/was, etc.... I was immediately told I need to forgive and not bring it up. It was my issue to deal with and get over. My FIL insisted I didn't need to know any details as it wouldn't change anything and it was so long ago.

 

I used the "grieving" analogy before with my wife and MC. The MC understood what I was saying. My wife's response is "nobody died and someone dying is much worse than what has happened with us but we don't dwell on the deaths". Rationally, I know someone dying is permanent and worse, but there is no control or ill intent by the person who dies. I found a very good friend dead in his home a little over a year ago when I went to check on him. Yes, I am upset, wish I would have checked on him sooner, etc... but I know that is a natural progression and he didn't intentionally die, knowing he would hurt me. Maybe not a good example, but I was a bit surprised at my wife's response.

Edited August 1, 2014 by tough love
additional info

[LuckyLady13]

Tough Love, I forgot something twice now and I won't forget it again!

 

Do you know what I remember just as clearly as my mother betraying my father? My fathers incredible strength at the time and I thought all these years that he's just amazingly, almost inhumanly strong until I saw something you said. That if it weren't for your kids...

 

But my point still stands! All these years since now, every time life throws me a nasty curveball and too much to handle goes on at the same time and I feel weak and like I can't take it anymore, I always think back to how strong my dad was. Straightens me right up because I saw the pain in his eyes but I also saw how he was living his life and doing all the right things despite that. I want to be like my father, not like my immature, selfish mother and if this has stuck with me this way all this time? This is going to stick with your kids because they know more than you think they do and one day it's all going to be on the table and it's going to be awesome for them to look back the way I do at my dad and think YOU are the one they wanted to grow up like.

 

In response to something you said, sure, someone actually dying is of course worse but at least there's a definitive end there. With your wife, you've got to grieve while the new woman moved right into her place who looks exactly like her. Makes it more like Invasion of the Body Snatchers!

 

Doesn't sound like your wife minimizing things she's done is new. So you're going to have to learn some coping mechanisms for when she does this.

 

I have to say though...I admire your strength and courage for your kids. I couldn't do what you're doing and I think a lot of people couldn't and would have walked out the door.

[tough love]

Any chance you have been losing a lot of feelings and falling out of love with her for some time and are grasping at this as a justification for closing off your feelings even more and moving on?

 

I get the feeling that there is some rewriting of history taking place here.

 

oldshirt, I sent you a PM but I can't tell if it went through.

[GoBlue]

Have you gone to see the counselor individually? I understand what you are saying and it seems very difficult to accept that the counselor doesn't understand. Counselors are just like doctors, they are there to help and serve you, not the other way around. If this counselor ceases being a help then you always have the option of finding another.

[revelations]

She says that she would not be upset if she found out now, that I had cheated that long ago, before marriage or found out now that I had lied about things that were important to her. Maybe she means it or maybe she HAS to say that because admitting she would be upset validates my feelings. I know she has been bothered when I have helped family members with tasks when we needed something fixed at home that I had already set a date that I would make our repairs. As soon as I realized it bothered her, I did apologize and made the repair before the date we had originally set. So, based on her reaction to this type of thing, I don't think she would be okay with finding out I cheated or lied about something SHE felt was important.

 

Funny you mention STD's and pregnancy. She swears he wore a condom but also swears he didn't cum. For the life of me I can't figure out how she can be so sure he didn't cum if he had a condom on. Right about the time of the ONS, she went on the pill. We also had a pregnancy scare about 3-4 months after this. I don't know if the baby would have been mine or not. She isn't sure when she actually cheated. there is a two month window when she thinks it happened and I don't remember for sure when we had the pregnancy scare, other than knowing it was early in the following semester of school.

 

She has done some stuff to try and show me she was being honest now, but she didn't really offer or volunteer. I think she did these things because she knew I doubted whether she had cheated on me more times and during marriage and that I was really ready to leave because I had serious doubts.

 

I have chosen to stay because I do love my wife. I HATE that I can't stop thinking about what she has done and the lies. This is the exact reason I was always clear, prior to and after marriage, that I would rather know the truth than be played for a fool. She is better than me for being able to drop things and leave them in the past. I can do that and have done that if I am not lied to about it first. She has done stuff she knew I wouldn't be bothered by since then and told me immediately. I thanked her for being honest and it was the end of it and I dropped it because she was honest. I appreciated that she was honest about it.

 

 

Tough love I have no doubt that you love your wife. The problem is that even with a ONS that happened before you were married does have an effect on you now. I can understand that you do want to forgive her for the lie and the ONS. The trouble comes with your wife, from what you have wrote it seems she is walking around like princess teflon, nothing sticks to her. Basically she got to have fun and enjoy a night with another guy and you got stuck with the pain. Worst yet you did not even know until years later. However you try to be the nice and honest guy and give her another chance, trouble is she is acting like what she did is not worse than wrecking the car.

 

Now this is something that has been and will fester for a long time with you. This is why I tell you that you should be in IC (your wife should be too) and in MC. Once again you should not be paying for this, your wife needs to get a regular job and use that money for yours and hers IC and MC. This is part of making amends to you, which is something I have not read about her doing. Making amends is more than just saying "I'm sorry now get over it", it is much more than that. She has done something that can never be undone. She cannot give you back your time that she stole from you nor can she unbang that guy she had a ONS with. So she needs to make amends to you and it needs to be large. I would recommend that she starts out by getting a job (not at your shop) and paying for those IC's and MC for both of you and I mean pay for it 100%.

 

Their are a lot of other things she should be dong also to make amends. One is to acknowledge that she has hurt you in ways that she cannot fix. Myself I would also say that you should come first for everything for the next 20 years or so, or however long it was that she has been lying about the ONS. If you wanted to take a trip to Europe then you and the kids should go, and she should stay behind. Yes I know I sound a bit cold, however she needs to miss out on something that is once in a lifetime. You need to see her take a bite of that turd sandwich she has served you. You need to see that she has not gotten off scott free or anything like that. You also need to feel that she has empathy for you and feels ashamed for what she has done to you. Amends is a great thing because it shows genuine remorse.

 

Myself I cannot stay with someone like my xWW or yours. However I do know that it would have been harder for me to walk out had my xWW shown any sort of sorrow for what she did. The thing is that the past cannot be changed, you cannot get back what your wife took from you. However to have her cheat and lie about it for so many years and dismiss it is troubling. A lot of people say "It happened 20yrs ago, forget about it. Why hold that against her?". They are full of crap and I will tell you why. Your wife knew about her ONS all that time, she has had years to learn how to live with it. You my friend have only had to years to learn how to live with her ONS and the fact that she has lied about it for so long. Your self-esteem has taken a huge hit, not only because of the ONS, also because of the lie. Simply put, your wife needs to get a job and pay for IC and MC for both of you. If it was me in your shoes this would have to be done at the very least. Refusing to do so would result in me walking out once the kids left the house. Hopefully your wife will change her attitude and start acting remorseful for what she has done to you. I would like to see her make amends to you, and no making you coffee does not count for amends. I make my own coffee everyday, no help from any woman or anyone else.

 

You need to also know that your a good person who does not deserve this crap. You need to start thinking of and looking after yourself, even if your wife does not do this or does not like it. Myself before she could have gotten the words "get over it" out of her mouth I would have been on a plane to Costa Rica to spend a week banging escorts and fishing over their. She needs to make amends to you big time. You deserve it and need that from her. If not then the only thing that will happen is you will eventually break. You may have a heart attack or some other physical problem that will come up trying to suppress this. So hopefully she will make amends to you. If not then screw her and go out and get laid yourself. After all she opened that door long ago and for her it is no big deal. I always find it kind of strange that when a woman cheats she should be forgiven since it means nothing. However if a man cheats he is a pig and must be punished for life, his whole life has to be ruined. Well my major point is that she needs to make amends to you. Without this, I see nothing good staying with her.

[tough love]

To add a little humor... I want to make sure you all know that I do know how to make coffee and am capable of making my own coffee!!! it just doesn't taste as good when I make it and I spill coffee grounds on the counter!!

 

I think she is sorry she didn't tell me the truth who it first happened. I don't know if it's because now I am upset about it and she has gotten the brunt of my reaction or if she is truly sorry for not letting me make an informed choice. She did take two lie detector tests. She failed the first and the passed the second, which was voice activated. She also called her old roomie. All this was done reluctantly by her because I think she knew I would leave since I believed that she may have been a serial cheater back then. So she has done these things to try and improve the situation but has done so reluctantly and said she would never put me through that if I had cheated and lied.

 

I would never cheat on her but understand what you are saying. I had the chance for one last fling myself when out with some college friends a couple weeks before. I left the bar that night when the guys i was with tried test me up with a girl in the bar. Never spoke to those guys after that night.

[drifter777]

My wife's cheating was decades ago as well but it wasn't hidden and I was just plain scared to end my marriage. I was afraid to lose my son and afraid to be alone. I was afraid ti get back into dating and risk all that rejection. But whenever I tell my story there are folks who post about how strong I was to stay and raise my family. Bulls#it. Nothing strong about it at all.

 

The fact is that your wife's cheating and lying violate your core belief's. Her caviar attitude insults your soul. Know this: no amount of remorse from her is going to help you heal. Every day you stay with her twists the knife deeper because you know you are compromising your moral belief's. If you keep trying to make your marriage work i'll tell you that the way this ends is you remaining unhappily married until death do you part. It doesn't get easier to leave with time, and time is ticking. End your marriage now start healing.

[katielee]

 

The fact is that your wife's cheating and lying violate your core belief's. Her caviar attitude insults your soul. Know this: no amount of remorse from her is going to help you heal. Every day you stay with her twists the knife deeper because you know you are compromising your moral belief's. If you keep trying to make your marriage work i'll tell you that the way this ends is you remaining unhappily married until death do you part. It doesn't get easier to leave with time, and time is ticking. End your marriage now start healing.

 

 

This! And the foundation of this marriage was revealed two years ago to be built on quicksand ..,