So a husband created a spreadsheet documenting a lack of sex

[dreamingoftigers]

You didn't have to answer that, she went completely off rail even bringing other men into the picture for effect, the situation was about frequency of sex but she took it somewhere completely else, the guy wasn't commenting on her loose, wrinkly, dry, scabby vagina, and how other women he's been with were able to bend their bodies and legs in ways she never could, and were a real champ taking it from any position, even throwing in a nice deep-throat always finishing with a swallow...assuming she even does anything at all in bed, I'm sure in this situation he'd just happy if his wife laid there so he could simply f*ck her then go on with his pathetic life, but he can't even get that, after all, what about how she feels about it?...and we all know how that works if men were to do that in terms of "judging women", we only take the heat for that, you can openly talk about a mans weight for example, but mention a woman's...oh you're a real jerk, and if you are a man and watch women on a screen, like these damn porn stars...oh man, you are totally responsible for the way that might make a woman feel.

 

But back to the point...

 

But honestly, I think generally men would be more ok with a spread-sheet than a woman...at least it makes sense, at least it's something you can say "well, there is a problem here". But I'm no idiot, I don't need to go out and check social media just to understand where at least 80 percent of women will automatically stand on this issue just based on the fact that there's a spreadsheet involved...that's all they hear "spreadsheet, spreadsheet, spreadsheet"...welp, mind made up!

 

But like you said, if you actually go so far as to prove that a woman is wrong...many will simply blow up in rage, just like it happened in this situation. She wasn't thinking, she was reacting to the situation...again, isolated in how it makes her feel and what it feels like for her, without ever putting herself in her husbands shoes...after all, why do that when you can just be a selfish b**ch and people feel sorry for you instantly when you cry and when you reject the "rapist" of a man you married for security and not to be alone.

 

And as far as "generalizations"...if we're not being hypocritical about that, then candles, lotions, oils, and the like wouldn't work because not EVERY woman enjoys those things, according to this theory you could technically install a Harley in the window and rev the engine until the entire room fills with black smoke...because WHO KNOWS what THAT woman likes that's the funny thing about people advocating against judging, generalizing, and stereotypes, they do it without even realizing that they're doing it, always makes me chuckle to myself but I wouldn't want to ever correct it, it provides too much entertainment.

 

So you couldn't say women like "beautiful environments" because they all wouldn't according to avoiding generalizations theory, and in fact when I've heard men talk about the locations they've had sex with random women in, it was usually less than savory and "magical" of an environment to say the least.

 

So who knows why those men were able to have sex with these women in the first place, I mean after all men always talk about doing all these things just to get laid which includes all the things women say, a staple in any mans arsenal

 

But then again, who's trying to make sense of anything at all...because generalizations are NEVER true, right? I guess the guys who continues to be consistent with women are just getting lucky, they must not have anything figured out about "women" in general...since every woman is unique, and different, guess it's just his looks...who knows, right?

 

I don't think people realize how their behaviors reveal so much about themselves and the way they think, and how often these generalizations stand true. They're not meant to be hyper accurate from the day you were born till you future death, there is no 100 percent in life in anything at all, but there are things that are highly consistent and there are patterns you can read and determine a lot from experience with people, because without that we wouldn't be able to understand each other.

 

I feel sorry for people who don't get that, it's like everything is just going right over their head..so oblivious to what's going on around them. But you know, I don't think it's so much that, I think people just deny that they're actually doing it and try to even avoid doing that, even when their conscious and mind is telling them better...because they are recognizing patterns and behaviors that can be generalized and if you're good enough at it, will often times with a high level of predictable turn out to be exactly what you expected them to be...but like I said, there's always that small percentage of variation, but it's not drastic enough to sway the entire generalization of the argument, you won't have a variety of arguments on social media about this "spreadsheet", it's going to go as you predict, this is an easy one to call...and after all, if we're not making arguments here based on that information, then what are we arguing about? how are we even able to discuss it? clearly we don't have enough information to determine what's going on in it's entirely, If that's even possible in 99.99 percentage of situations, so what are you even talking for if that's what you expect?

 

Just accept it people, generalizations are there for a reason and often true.

 

Jeepers.

 

So a guy makes a spreadsheet about his lack of sex, his wife posts it online, people comment on it and things go back and forth for awhile.

 

Then this.

 

Seriously. This. What the Hell?

I'm going to start keeping a spreadsheet on gender hate and bias.

 

I'm fascinated. How this thread where there are plenty of men and women who are seeing a poor communication problem breaking up a relationship regarding two people who are OBVIOUSLY ignoring the obvious elephant in the room: the are having a conflict about sex and intimacy in their relationship and instead of trying to listen to one another in any way are just trying to put themselves in a victim role.

 

A Victim Role that won't help either of them solve the issue or preserve their relationship. Seriously.

 

Now it's "men as a whole are the victim to women's selfish, irrational, cruel insanity and y'all don't want to admit it. Women just gang-up with other women and shout down logic like spreadsheets. Precious, precious spreadsheets."

 

Now clearly the wife is lacking some empathy for her husband (duh) and clearly the husband is lacking empathy for his wife.

 

My personal experience as a member of the species and not so much as a woman "blowing up in rage" is that people tend to lack empathy when they are under stress or hurting. And in dysfunctional communication styles, instead of turning toward their partner for healing opportunities, they fire at them.

 

He feels fired at for being rejected for seemingly lame excuses for not being intimate. She feels fired at for receiving this spreadsheet, but obviously, more importantly the fact that he says he won't miss her on a 10-day business trip while she's away and won't answer her calls. She fires back by posting the spreadsheet up online.

 

She may have felt "fired at" for being "pressured to perform so much." Or "at the wrong time." Or maybe she feels fired at for some other previous resentment he may have caused which only happened because she caused one before that. And really? It could go on forever until two adults realize that they are going to hurt each other and piss each other off FOR LIFE if there is a lifetime commitment that they make to one another.

 

And that their sex/intimacy needs are not always going to match and that they will come and go throughout the course of a relationship due to circumstance and personal issues. Is it fair? Is it fantastic? Not always.

 

But instead of assigning a great and terrible FAULT to a partner for their role in the conflict, it makes far more sense to control what one CAN control.

What works? What doesn't? And can I ask for something different and be heard? What's my plan if I have unmet needs? Does my partner understand my needs? What are my partner's needs? Is my partner unhappy with me? Is my partner attracted to me? Why or why not? Is MY behaviour affecting my success rate with my partner? What is reasonable for me to take responsibility for and what is not?

 

Coming from a place of assuming that your partner is a complete dolt who will take no responsibility for their actions and hide behind a gender-based excuse is generally not going to solve a conflict or bring anyone closer. Nor will it help anyone in the long-run.

 

Promoting divisiveness only leads to.... more divisiveness and less understanding.

 

What if "women" only want sex twice a month and don't understand the need for more. Does that make her a cruel and unusual selfish b*tch? Or does it make her someone who simply doesn't understand her partner's needs and perspectives?

 

I am not saying it's the case. In fact, I think it would be incredibly naive.

 

However, I am in a relationship with a husband who has taken YEARS to understand the impact some of his seemingly-obvious decisions have had on me. Is he a stupid, selfish a-hole. (Well, kinda. And I am kind of an a-hole too.) But I can honestly recognize it as not having the skill-set to communicate with me and understand me. And that I lack the skill-set to recognize and communicate with him. In certain ways anyway. Conflict gives us the chance to grow and understand.

 

Conflict doesn't necessarily mean a relationship needs to be over or that someone is just some kind of selfish, hedonistic, sociopath.

 

Most people want connections with their partner and to be truly accepted. People of both genders. And the vast majority of us want good sex.

 

However it seems a large portion of us lack the skills and insight to procure both.

 

Clearly this man wants to connect to his wife, or it wouldn't bother him initiating and being shot down. And it seems this woman wants a connection with her husband or else she wouldn't be reacting in a hurt way trying to marshal troops to back up her perspective. She just wouldn't care at all what he had to say. She'd crumple up the spreadsheet and not call him to try to talk.

 

It's too bad that neither one of them can go to each other with questions: "Hey, why are we only screwing x times? Why are you telling me one thing and then doing another? Is this how often you want to do things or is there something else going on for you? Are you aware that having intimacy this rarely is not working for me? How do you think we should approach this?"

 

And honestly, if he's done this and gotten back static from her, why the Hell hasn't he put his foot down on what he will and won't accept?

 

Why is the owness on him in the above example? Because he's the one with the complaint. And when you are the one with the complaint your partner cannot read your mind. And if you have made your mind known and the complaint still exists, the owness rests on you to take responsibility for your next actions. Your partner does not dictate the whole rest of your life. You do.

 

Lastly, I find it so messed up that I have seen a few of the "women are ganging up and siding with the woman and they expect men to just take it and they hate men and they get all psycho-emotional because they're selfish and b*tches and no sense of logic" arguments when the actual THREAD hasn't really swayed that way. It hasn't been a general hate-on about men or even about THIS man and his "Manish lack of manliness and she's so victimized by him blar de blar blah blah."

 

Sure there's been the undercurrent. But most of the posters are at least able to ACKNOWLEDGE the other perspective. And most have been addressing the behaviour that was instigated. Mostly "a spreadsheet isn't going to make that any situation any better." "Maybe there is something else going on here." "Neither partner is doing well here."

 

I just don't see this overwhelming "pro-female/guys can suck it" mentality as a main component of this thread half as much as it is being complained about.

 

I am always amazed at how people can be so easily triggered to the point of accusing the other gender as being full of contempt when they are being highly contemptuous about it.

[lollipopspot]

I don't even sure the spreadsheet is the worst of that action - it was sending it to her as she's going away, saying he won't miss her, and making himself unreachable while she's gone. If a spreadsheet was done with a heads-up for communication after it was completed, it might have been a fine idea. But not as a gotcha.

[dreamingoftigers]

Hi Keenly,

 

When I was on here more often, I generally enjoyed your comments and posting style.

I also firmly understand being screwed over by a partner and the feelings of anger toward the other gender that go along with that. Over the years since then, and honestly, my experiences on Loveshack have helped me to realize that screwing over a partner and raw pain over being screwed over is not gender-specific. Nor even particularly skewed in one general direction. Often the same behaviour is given different justifications depending on gender, but overall it's the same behaviour and often with similar consequences and feelings attached. For instance having an alcoholic husband is probably just as much "fun" as having an alcoholic wife, and just as chaotic etc.

 

That being said, I digress.

I wrote another post but because I included a link in it, it may not show up until after being reviewed by moderation if it shows up at all.

 

You'll notice your opener on the post that grabbed attention:

 

I've kind of noticed a pattern. Women seem to get mad when cold hard facts, the kind that can not be argued with, when a point is 100% proven an irrefutable in an argument are presented.

 

In this example, the female argument on the comments is to completely side step the issue at hand , because they can't argue that, and they jump to " really? He did that ? " because they can't dispute the facts, so they try to manipulate the argument so that it is about something else, like him actually documenting what happens in his sex life.

 

Even with the qualifier on women in the comment section in the second paragraph, it clearly does not negate or change the fact that overall it was stated, to paraphrase "women seem to not reason with facts, they just seem to get mad." Followed by "Here is an example that confirms this pattern: the comments section on the post. Instead of addressing the facts presented, they manipulate the argument and make it about how the facts were recorded and presented."

 

Women here are one, amorphous, unbreakable block that "seem to do X when Y." "Here is an example of women doing X when Y."

 

Generally, when you have a group of people doing X when Y, it will spark protest and defensiveness among the group being labeled. Almost universally.

 

If all the women would kindly take notice that my entire post was referring to the cements section of the article and not this thread. That would avoid a lot of misdirected anger.

 

It would if there was misdirected anger.

Was there a prevalence of "misdirected anger?"

Or was there assertiveness? Factual arguments in return? Personal anecdotes?

 

I saw some assertion coupled with the same old frustration of being told "well clearly all these women X because Y." I get tired of it. At some point a lot of us get tired of hearing it. Because for many of us it doesn't fit. I have a daughter. She LOVES shoes. LOVES them. I could take her to a shoe store and she could probably spend three hours buying every shoe that she ever wanted. If I had that kind of money. Me? I buy a pair of shoes once every couple of years or so. Cheap ones if I can. I hate shoe shopping and I'm not interested in trying to co-ordinate the new "Spring Colours" or whatever. I have two pairs of dress shoes: A black pair that is half of a size too small. A brown pair that I wore to a friend's wedding and tripped in the aisle on the way out of the ceremony because I rarely wear dress shoes. Did I forget my gender when I woke up in the morning? Did I forget my high heels and makeup fetish? Sigh. I don't have one. I am a person. Not just a gender.

 

I don't just X because Y. I sometimes X because Y. I sometimes X because Z. Sometimes I don't X. Sometimes I do. Some things I will never X because of Y. Some things I will always X because of Y. Some things I won't even react to Y. But I can pretty much guarantee the thing I do the rarest is shut up or be brief when I have a point. The vast majority of people in the world don't respond well to being told that

their points and arguments are irrational, not a valid perspective, or just overly emotional.

 

I strongly suspect that if the men on here were repeatedly told that they were just "angry" and "couldn't argue with facts" that it wouldn't be well-received. Not because they are men but because it's goddamn ignorant and completely invalidates the person and their thoughts, often without basis.

 

I WOULD be okay with that actually, as long as there a disparity. If the ratio of bon female.orgasm sex was greatly disproportionate to orgasm sex, I would step my game up.

 

Instead kf getting my feelers hurt over it, I'm more likely to think " wow, this is really important to her. SO impostant, in fact, that she documented and logged.it in a scientific manner to demonstrate her point.

 

That woman I would probably marry, because her mind operates like mine does.

 

I would be impressed by the idea as a whole IF it was used to show where

things weren't working or where they were, not as an evaluation of me as a person or partner. (I.e. we tried X position and I can't orgasm as easily in that position, so could we do position A instead?" OR "it doesn't work as well for me when I am dealing with X, so if X happens let's figure out what to do." As opposed to "I couldn't orgasm the last 3 times, you must suck in bed."

[dreamingoftigers]

I don't even sure the spreadsheet is the worst of that action - it was sending it to her as she's going away, saying he won't miss her, and making himself unreachable while she's gone. If a spreadsheet was done with a heads-up for communication after it was completed, it might have been a fine idea. But not as a gotcha.

 

Can I get an Amen?

[Haydn]

I dislike excel intensely.

[Keenly]

A word of advice, speaking from experience.

 

 

Don't post to love shack 3 and a half minutes after waking up in the morning. You'll put your foot so far in your mouth that your knees will get wet.

[TXGuy]

I'm flabbergasted that a married man in his twenties can have a sexual rejection rate from his wife of 89%. The fact that the online sisterhood has reached the general consensus that the husband must be a big part of the problem would concern me if I was contemplating marriage.

 

My best guess is that men have generally filled in the backstory from their point of view and women in general have filled in the backstory with an entirely different point of view.

[soccerrprp]

I'm flabbergasted that a married man in his twenties can have a sexual rejection rate from his wife of 89%. The fact that the online sisterhood has reached the general consensus that the husband must be a big part of the problem would concern me if I was contemplating marriage.

 

My best guess is that men have generally filled in the backstory from their point of view and women in general have filled in the backstory with an entirely different point of view.

 

Sorry, didn't read all the posts. 89% rejection rate?!?!?!? Some serious crap is going on and if the husband is still trying, it would lead me to believe that he thinks it okay to do so. If there's nothing seriously effed-up about the husband, then it seems that the wife has some issues to deal with.

 

My gf (wife soon) and I have touched on the subject of NOT using intimacy as a weapon. Difficult, yes, but not impossible. Is "it" being used as a weapon?

[TXGuy]

 

My gf (wife soon) and I have touched on the subject of NOT using intimacy as a weapon. Difficult, yes, but not impossible. Is "it" being used as a weapon?

 

I didn't get the impression the wife was using it as a weapon. She just seemed like she didn't want to be bothered. There wan no indication she was trying to coerce him into some decision or that she was trying to get jewelry or furs out of it.

 

It just came across as she was never in the mood.

 

(This is my attemp at a neutral summary. I have my biases as to what the real backstory is, which would further put the wife in a bad light. And many of the ladies of loveshack have suggested back stories that would indicate he must have been at fault. Of course, we will likely not find out what the real backstory is.)

[lollipopspot]

or that she was trying to get jewelry or furs out of it.

 

She was going away on a business trip. In the modern era, with middle class people and women who are working, this comment of trying to get "jewelry or furs" out of the hapless husband is so odd.

[TXGuy]

She was going away on a business trip. In the modern era, with middle class people and women who are working, this comment of trying to get "jewelry or furs" out of the hapless husband is so odd.

 

That's true. And nobody ever wears fur anymore. I was simply sayin she did not appear to be withholding sex for some presents (i wont get into whether women in the workforce expect their husbands to buy them expensive trinkets because that did not appear to be at issue here). Nor was it indicated that she was inifferent to sex because she was angry with him (prior to the email).

[pteromom]

I have my biases as to what the real backstory is, which would further put the wife in a bad light. And many of the ladies of loveshack have suggested back stories that would indicate he must have been at fault. Of course, we will likely not find out what the real backstory is.)

 

 

Everyone has their biases as to what the real backstory is. But one thing I can promise you is that women don't just stop having sex with their husbands for no reason. It could be that she just lost her libido, could be she is seeing someone else, or it could be that he was just a real jerk that stomped down any desire she had for him.

 

It's not a black and white issue in any of the cases though. It's never all one person's fault.

[dreamingoftigers]

A word of advice, speaking from experience.

 

 

Don't post to love shack 3 and a half minutes after waking up in the morning. You'll put your foot so far in your mouth that your knees will get wet.

 

My first post showed up. Yay.

 

Enjoy the rainbow-cake recipe.

[Woggle]

I don't even sure the spreadsheet is the worst of that action - it was sending it to her as she's going away, saying he won't miss her, and making himself unreachable while she's gone. If a spreadsheet was done with a heads-up for communication after it was completed, it might have been a fine idea. But not as a gotcha.

 

This is what leads me to believe he just doesn't care anymore and is done trying to work on things. He has reached that level of frustration.

[SpiralOut]

What if this was one of the most epic troll posts gone viral ever? It still started an entertaining dialogue. I do think the story is true for now.

 

I think that it probably was. I clicked on her username and it showed that she had posted it 4 days ago and had only joined Reddit 4 days ago. (obviously now it had been longer than that)

 

I don't understand Reddit well enough to track the details of her username and what else she may have done, but I get the impression she created the account just to post that one thing.

[SpiralOut]

Everybody.

 

I think we all need to stop, breathe, and realize that we have been now discussing this for what, nearly 20 pages now?

 

 

Haha. Yeah that's pretty bad. Sometimes juicy gossip is hard to resist. I think at this point some of us (or at least me, anyway) are speculating because we don't know what happened next and we want to know and we'll never know.

 

I want to know what happened next!!

[dreamingoftigers]

Apparently, the more we are different, the more that we are the same:

 

Yes, Sexually Frustrated Wives Can Make Sex Spreadsheets Too

[joystickd]

 

2) How much better would the world be, if each of us, for the next five minutes that we would ordinarily spend typing responses about this couple's relationship that none of us have probably ever met in person on here instead did some small thing to make one of our relationships in real life better? Just a thought.

Sadly I couldn't be included in this one. Well considering my history of unhealthy relationships with women I could have been on the verge of a spreadsheet hell even a pie chart just about everytime on several issues. Its a sad thing to feel like all you will ever attract is women that have major issues and they mess with you emotionally. In a way this woman kind of reminds me so much of those women.

[HermioneG]

I've kind of noticed a pattern. Women seem to get mad when cold hard facts, the kind that can not be argued with, when a point is 100% proven an irrefutable in an argument are presented.

 

 

 

.

 

Darn.

 

Apparently this means my spouse is a female.

 

I wonder how I'll break the news to him.

 

In other news, I must be male. I've really got to rethink my wardrobe.

 

Sigh.

[sillyanswer]

I think that it probably was. I clicked on her username and it showed that she had posted it 4 days ago and had only joined Reddit 4 days ago. (obviously now it had been longer than that)

 

I don't understand Reddit well enough to track the details of her username and what else she may have done, but I get the impression she created the account just to post that one thing.

 

Click on her username.

 

She posted some comments in that thread.

[Els]

Apparently, the more we are different, the more that we are the same:

 

Yes, Sexually Frustrated Wives Can Make Sex Spreadsheets Too

 

Ohhh, man. I really hope this doesn't turn out to be the next trend... I'd vote for twerking any day.

[joystickd]

Ohhh, man. I really hope this doesn't turn out to be the next trend... I'd vote for twerking any day.

 

Come on there will be a spreadsheet and a line graph on tweaking soon. Just wait lol

[sillyanswer]

Ohhh, man. I really hope this doesn't turn out to be the next trend... I'd vote for twerking any day.

 

Just wait until it's celebrity sex spreadsheets.

[hotpotato]

I'm flabbergasted that a married man in his twenties can have a sexual rejection rate from his wife of 89%. The fact that the online sisterhood has reached the general consensus that the husband must be a big part of the problem would concern me if I was contemplating marriage.

 

My best guess is that men have generally filled in the backstory from their point of view and women in general have filled in the backstory with an entirely different point of view.

 

Im a woman who is coming from the point of view of someone who had to beg for sex, as I once did.

 

If he doesnt like his 89% rejection rate, he can ask less.

 

He can still be a passive aggressive jerk. It doesnt make it ok for him to be a jerk because he doesnt have a hot and heavy sex life.

[hotpotato]

I agree with Smartdude, but I don't think the goal of the spreadsheet (and his mode of delivery) was to get more sex from his wife. I think he did it because, right or wrong, he was done.

Ia. I think he just wanted to shove it in her face and make her upset.

 

I hope they are on divorce court!