thefooloftheyear Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I think there are people who can eat junk food and have an athletic body…just like there are people who can do all the drug imaginable to mankind and live past 50 years old…but they are exception. I don't have a masters in health or anything related but even I know that junk food is bad energy - bad energy = too tired to have a good work out so being athletic while eating junk food can't work in the long run. Sorry fooloftheyear, but using you and your friend as an indicator that you can eat junk food and be athletic isn't bringing much weight to your premise considering all the studies proving it wrong… Also, take all the top athletes in the world and I'm pretty sure most of them wouldn't even remember junk food exists... Not trying to be argumentative, but when someone makes a statement that you can "NEVER out exercise a bad diet"...well...its just flat out NOT true... Id consider an exception to be a "once in a blue moon" event....Ive known legions of people who fit this criteria, including myself, my brother, and my dad.....SO there are three people IN MY OWN FAMILY...In my world, thats far from rare... My dad used to get a chuckle every time someone said how great of shape he was in ...."what type of training do you do?"..."how do you stay so fit?",,,then hed make up some bullsyt story about all sorts of heavy training and specialized foods just to be a ballbreaker....Quite frankly, my dad looked better than 3/4 of the guys that work out every day in a gym when he was 60 years old..Despite not doing any exercise in 35 years.. :laugh: The guy was a 3 pack a day smoker his whole life...Never ate a stitch of good food...I mean, you couldnt draw up a worse diet if you tried..Pakages of donuts and cups of coffee with half of the cup filled with sugar...The guy was a muscular 5'11" and 170 his whole life...If you ate a fraction of what he did youd probably balloon to 300 in six months..So would a lot of people...My brother is the same way....Basically eats the same crap and has the same build type..I am more muscular than they are and can pack on muscle by practically just thinking about working out...Im fortunate. When I was at my worst shape,(I was never truly fat), I had a diet of nothing but pizza, junk food, chinese food. bread and butter, etc..yet never got more than 20 lbs above what would be normal for a guy of my frame. Its simple....Genetics trump a lot of the so called "expert advice" when it comes to this...You hear people say that you WILL get fat if you have a shyt diet....NOT TRUE.....Some people will and some wont...Just like some people train their asses off and never get beyond a beer league... Think about this for a minute..,...You see all those big, bad NFL and NBA players??? Do you really believe that they had scientifically prepared diets their whole lives.?? ..Heck, most of them grew up malnourished, poor diets full of saturated fats and junk foods..Yet grew up to be world class athletes....If all it took was proper training and diet, then all the weekenc warriors and internet experts would be earning millions playing ball... Because you can bet your last dollar that just about NONE of them know anything about proper nutrition or training...they just were born different ...as all of us are.. TFY Link to post Share on other sites
Carm Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Not trying to be argumentative, but when someone makes a statement that you can "NEVER out exercise a bad diet"...well...its just flat out NOT true... Id consider an exception to be a "once in a blue moon" event....Ive known legions of people who fit this criteria, including myself, my brother, and my dad.....SO there are three people IN MY OWN FAMILY...In my world, thats far from rare... My dad used to get a chuckle every time someone said how great of shape he was in ...."what type of training do you do?"..."how do you stay so fit?",,,then hed make up some bullsyt story about all sorts of heavy training and specialized foods just to be a ballbreaker....Quite frankly, my dad looked better than 3/4 of the guys that work out every day in a gym when he was 60 years old..Despite not doing any exercise in 35 years.. :laugh: The guy was a 3 pack a day smoker his whole life...Never ate a stitch of good food...I mean, you couldnt draw up a worse diet if you tried..Pakages of donuts and cups of coffee with half of the cup filled with sugar...The guy was a muscular 5'11" and 170 his whole life...If you ate a fraction of what he did youd probably balloon to 300 in six months..So would a lot of people...My brother is the same way....Basically eats the same crap and has the same build type..I am more muscular than they are and can pack on muscle by practically just thinking about working out...Im fortunate. When I was at my worst shape,(I was never truly fat), I had a diet of nothing but pizza, junk food, chinese food. bread and butter, etc..yet never got more than 20 lbs above what would be normal for a guy of my frame. Its simple....Genetics trump a lot of the so called "expert advice" when it comes to this...You hear people say that you WILL get fat if you have a shyt diet....NOT TRUE.....Some people will and some wont...Just like some people train their asses off and never get beyond a beer league... Think about this for a minute..,...You see all those big, bad NFL and NBA players??? Do you really believe that they had scientifically prepared diets their whole lives.?? ..Heck, most of them grew up malnourished, poor diets full of saturated fats and junk foods..Yet grew up to be world class athletes....If all it took was proper training and diet, then all the weekenc warriors and internet experts would be earning millions playing ball... Because you can bet your last dollar that just about NONE of them know anything about proper nutrition or training...they just were born different ...as all of us are.. TFY Seriously, I can't comment on this. It's insulting my intelligence. Link to post Share on other sites
GoreSP Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Seriously, I can't comment on this. It's insulting my intelligence. I bet it is. 'Oh you have studied this for years? I don't care! I know 10 people that prove your studies WRONG! wrong I say!' 1 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I bet it is. 'Oh you have studied this for years? I don't care! I know 10 people that prove your studies WRONG! wrong I say!' Say what you two want....nowhere did I say anyone was wrong....But the statement the previous poster made-(which is where this all started) "No matter what you do you can NEVER out exercise a bad diet" Well...this is an invalid statement.....Period..I dont care if Dr Oz, Jack LaLanne or the Easter Bunny says it...Its just not a valid statement...Never means never..Never doesnt mean some, many or a percentage...And while for women it might be rare...quite frankly its not that rare among men... And when I asked her whether or not she could stand behind it(the statement).....she said no...So what does that mean?? Look...I live clean and eat clean...I'd sooner eat dog shyt than a Big Mac at this point...But im not so delusiional to think that everyone that eats junk food gets obese....Its just not true.. I wont say that this is true of the "resident expert" on this thread, but I think the problem is most personal trainers dismiss genetics because it flies against what they are trying to do(make money with)...If they tell a client that no matter what they do, they will never achieve an ideal body(which is possible and liikely in many cases), then they lose customers.. Yet, I see people in gyms every day killing themselves, yet go nowhere....While others make huge gains by barely falling out of bed...Its not magic... And btw, GoreSP...I am a hugely successful businessman of almost three decades now...Ive written publications, hosted seminars, and received national acclaim for my business accomplishments...Ive never taken a single business course in my life..Saying someone has a degree at this point really doesnt guarantee credibility...(again, not disrespecting the expert-just my personal experience) TFY Link to post Share on other sites
GoreSP Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) And btw, GoreSP...I am a hugely successful businessman of almost three decades now...Ive written publications, hosted seminars, and received national acclaim for my business accomplishments...Ive never taken a single business course in my life..Saying someone has a degree at this point really doesnt guarantee credibility...(again, not disrespecting the expert-just my personal experience) TFY What you would have done in business school, you've done in real life. good for you. How would you feel if I came here, and told you everything you've done so far in business is wrong because my dad, my cousin and my aunt did it differently and succeeded? You'd probably tell me to **** right off. You're basically arguing proven concepts using exceptions. Edited May 19, 2014 by GoreSP Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) What you would have done in business school, you've done in real life. good for you. How would you feel if I came here, and told you everything you've done so far in business is wrong because my dad, my cousin and my aunt did it differently and succeeded? You'd probably tell me to **** right off. You're basically arguing proven concepts using exceptions. This is the last I am going to post about it.... You missed the point entirely.. I am on the same page as you, her, and everyone else regarding training and diet..I live it each and every day. But then dont tell me that one can "NEVER out exercise a bad diet"..People do it every day...A lot of people? well, no..But more than you think..Heck, they arent even "out-exercising" it, they may not be exercising at all! .And the fact that she herself admittedly couldn't stand behind the statement should have ended the conversation right there.. You see, all it takes is one individual that can maintain a healthy looking and lean physique while eating garbage, to disprove a so called "proven concept"....And everyone knows its far more than one... All I wanted to say was that people aren't machines and what works for one doesnt work for another..Anyone knows this..When you start applying absolutes to these conversations , then you arent seeing the big picture.. Enjoy your day.. TFY Edited May 19, 2014 by thefooloftheyear Link to post Share on other sites
RonaldS Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 However, to be "Fit" that indicates at least a healthy BMI. Except that BMI is the most worthless metric of physical condition and fitness ever contrived by mankind. It has ZERO practical real-world application. I just did a BMI calculation. According to the results, I am firmly 'overweight', and almost 3 full points (whatever that means) above the upper limit of 'normal' weight. That's fine. But the reality is that I'm athletic, have very little fat on my body, and can easily run circles around a lot of people half my age. Please....let us not ever mention BMI again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Chocolat Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Except that BMI is the most worthless metric of physical condition and fitness ever contrived by mankind. It has ZERO practical real-world application. I just did a BMI calculation. According to the results, I am firmly 'overweight', and almost 3 full points (whatever that means) above the upper limit of 'normal' weight. That's fine. But the reality is that I'm athletic, have very little fat on my body, and can easily run circles around a lot of people half my age. Please....let us not ever mention BMI again. BMI is useless for people who lift weights or do any kind of exercise that increases muscle mass. That's about 11% of men and 6% of women. I'd bet that for the other ~90%, BMI is pretty accurate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RonaldS Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 BMI is useless for people who lift weights or do any kind of exercise that increases muscle mass. That's about 11% of men and 6% of women. I'd bet that for the other ~90%, BMI is pretty accurate. Hate to disagree with your numbers, but I disagree with your numbers. And the general premise. The only way BMI could have any value in health assessment is if everybody had the exact same skeletal structure and proportions and % muscle mass:fat mass. And even then it would be a guess. There are so many different variations on human body form that something like BMI that takes two relatively meaningless variables (height and weight) can't possibly be anything more than the most basic general guideline. Body far % tells us far more about our physical condition than BMI. Also, it isn't just people who lift weights. What about people who have laborious jobs that involve lifting/carrying things, going up and down stairs, etc etc? Still want to stick with your roughly 9% of the population as being those with enough muscle mass to skew BMI? Link to post Share on other sites
Chocolat Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Also, it isn't just people who lift weights. What about people who have laborious jobs that involve lifting/carrying things, going up and down stairs, etc etc? Still want to stick with your roughly 9% of the population as being those with enough muscle mass to skew BMI? Yea, pretty much. I said in my post that it doesn't apply to people who lift weights or who do "any kind of exercise that increases muscle mass." I should have said "activity" rather than "exercise." The whole point of BMI was to give health-care practitiioners an easy method of assessing weight to height. Of course it can't apply 100% but then no system can, short of bodyfat analysis (which is truly only accurate with autopsy, which has considerable drawbacks for most people ). My point was only that I agree that BMI is crap for people who are extremely muscled but that, for the average Joe (or Jane) describing him- or herself on a dating site, it probably works just fine. If you live in an area where more than 10% of the people are carrying enough muscle mass to render BMI useless, I need to move there! Link to post Share on other sites
FitChick Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I think its probably pretty rude to ask someone you just met online for a "full body shot" or as someone suggested take a photo holding a copy of the newspaper up...Thats just weird.. Not really. We've seen plenty of threads similar to this one. Link to post Share on other sites
Babolat Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Whoever does your screening needs to check their maths. 6'3" and 190 lands you a bmi of 23.7, which is safely within the 'healthy' range. Well, it's one of 4 things I have to pass every year, and I fail for this one. 3 out of 4 is good enough though for our health insurance discount. Link to post Share on other sites
Babolat Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Not always. Sometimes people vomit while exercising because they have too much food or liquid in their stomachs at the time. What doe si tmean if you start to sport wood while working out? Am I athletic, or just freaking too horney? Link to post Share on other sites
Chocolat Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 What doe si tmean if you start to sport wood while working out? Am I athletic, or just freaking too horney? There are women who orgasm during workouts, typically while doing core work. Sigh. Some people have all the luck! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RonaldS Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 And to answer the original question of 'fit' vs 'athletic'... I guess it's a little bit subjective, but for me, it boils down to this perspective: can you do something with the body that you have? When I'm at the gym, I see tons of people that work out a lot and have very 'fit' bodies. They have good muscle tone, not much fat, proportional, etc. You can tell that they're generally healthy and spend a lot of time constructing their physique. However, it's always a matter of function. If those muscles have no function other than to sit there looking pretty, then that person is not 'athletic'. If you have shredded legs from lifting, but you can't run or jump that well, then you're not athletic. You can lift all day and jog on the treadmill until you wear holes in the soles of your shoes....doesn't make you athletic. Athleticism is the application of all of that fitness, strength, endurance and power into coordinated movements that don't necessarily have anything to do with the training moves. For example, I play a lot of organized basketball. Basketball is on the very high end of athletic endeavors. So, when I'm working out, I focus on building functional strength and endurance...for example, a lot of my workouts are centered around building core strength, and those exercises I do are specific to that target. Those activities in and of themselves make me 'fit', but what makes me athletic is the ability to combine and apply simultaneously in a sport. And I think you can almost tell by looking at a person if they're fit or athletic. People who are athletic seem to have a fluidity in their movements that people who are simply 'fit' don't quite have. I notice it working out. I can just tell when a guy or a woman who is working out is an athlete. There's just something different about the way they move. There's also something more fluid and seamless about their physiques. It's like looking at a Porsche vs a Dodge Charger. You can just tell by looking at them that they're not in the same league. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 And to answer the original question of 'fit' vs 'athletic'... I guess it's a little bit subjective, but for me, it boils down to this perspective: can you do something with the body that you have? When I'm at the gym, I see tons of people that work out a lot and have very 'fit' bodies. They have good muscle tone, not much fat, proportional, etc. You can tell that they're generally healthy and spend a lot of time constructing their physique. However, it's always a matter of function. If those muscles have no function other than to sit there looking pretty, then that person is not 'athletic'. If you have shredded legs from lifting, but you can't run or jump that well, then you're not athletic. You can lift all day and jog on the treadmill until you wear holes in the soles of your shoes....doesn't make you athletic. Athleticism is the application of all of that fitness, strength, endurance and power into coordinated movements that don't necessarily have anything to do with the training moves. For example, I play a lot of organized basketball. Basketball is on the very high end of athletic endeavors. So, when I'm working out, I focus on building functional strength and endurance...for example, a lot of my workouts are centered around building core strength, and those exercises I do are specific to that target. Those activities in and of themselves make me 'fit', but what makes me athletic is the ability to combine and apply simultaneously in a sport. And I think you can almost tell by looking at a person if they're fit or athletic. People who are athletic seem to have a fluidity in their movements that people who are simply 'fit' don't quite have. I notice it working out. I can just tell when a guy or a woman who is working out is an athlete. There's just something different about the way they move. There's also something more fluid and seamless about their physiques. It's like looking at a Porsche vs a Dodge Charger. You can just tell by looking at them that they're not in the same league. Yep...A 68-70 Charger is sexier than ANY of those shytboxes.... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
RonaldS Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Yep...A 68-70 Charger is sexier than ANY of those shytboxes.... TFY Come on, you know I'm talking about 2014 Chargers. And a 68 Charger would be an interesting matchup with a 911....until there was a curve in the road. Link to post Share on other sites
GoreSP Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 There are women who orgasm during workouts, typically while doing core work. Sigh. Some people have all the luck! Wait what? I want in on this!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
GoreSP Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 RobaldS Take 500 calories from a BigMac and 500 calories from a homemade grilled chicken and rice with steamed veggies. 500 calories for both but I'm guessing you'll have a far better work out after eating the chicken meal VS the big mac... Link to post Share on other sites
RonaldS Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) RobaldS Take 500 calories from a BigMac and 500 calories from a homemade grilled chicken and rice with steamed veggies. 500 calories for both but I'm guessing you'll have a far better work out after eating the chicken meal VS the big mac... Not necessarily. It's all in what your body does with those foods and those calories. Your body must first metabolize any nutrients that you consume into useable compounds for conversion of energy into work. Your body doesn't really care if you get a carbohydrate from a piece of rice or the bun of a Big Mac....molecularly, they're probably the same carbohydrate, And if they're not, they're both probably going to be broken down into glucose anyway. That's part of the mythology of nutrition. Most of the things your body needs metabolically it produces on it's own. Your body doesn't really use the nutrient in it's 'raw' form. Those nutrients are precursors and then the body gets ahold of them and makes what it needs out of the components available in those compounds. Take protein. We don't 'need' protein as it exists in a Big Mac or piece of chicken. Our bodies synthesize proteins. The protein molecule as it exists in either of those food items is of little value to us. Proteins in our bodies have specific structures and functions, and it's unlikely that a protein derived from a pice of chicken or Big Mac can even be used (never mind that by cooking the meat, the protein is totally denatured anyway). So, our proteins and chicken proteins are not identical molecules, and therefore, our body can't just plug in any protein it gets. What it does is obtains the amino acids that we can't metabolize (there are 8 of them e.g. L-isoleucine) and use them and other amine groups to construct the proteins that we need to carry out specific functions (and there tons of different proteins that we make). What it does, though, is take components from those proteins to synthesize amino acids or even derive complete amino acids that we can't make on our own. Since proteins are so big and complex, your body can probably derive all of the same atoms or molecules it needs from whatever proteins it finds in the Big Mac or the chicken. Same thing with rice vs bun. Or the fats in the cheese vs the fats in the chicken meat. Sure, there are other variables at play, and a lot of nuance in this..but at the base level, this is all about carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and a little phosphorus and sulphur mixed in. Now, in terms of nutritional balance and getting the most bang for your buck, or having additional vitamins, salts, etc that we need...that's where constructing a healthy, balanced, clean diet comes into the conversation. We should try not to put too many compounds into our bodies that our bodies have no use for or have to perform extra metabolic work to remove and keep your body in a nice stasis and equilibrium. But energy is just energy. Edited May 20, 2014 by RonaldS Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 RobaldS Take 500 calories from a BigMac and 500 calories from a homemade grilled chicken and rice with steamed veggies. 500 calories for both but I'm guessing you'll have a far better work out after eating the chicken meal VS the big mac... Sounds good..but nope....... As a matter of fact, a few bodybuilders I know SWEAR by junk food for bulking... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
GoreSP Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Sounds good..but nope....... As a matter of fact, a few bodybuilders I know SWEAR by junk food for bulking... TFY Just a few? seriously... Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 What doe si tmean if you start to sport wood while working out? Am I athletic, or just freaking too horney? Lol could be both! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Babolat Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 There are women who orgasm during workouts, typically while doing core work. Sigh. Some people have all the luck! I have felt a rush before, like I am going to orgasm, while working out; difficult to describe, no erection, no wood, just a very strong sexual rush. I must be too Fit! :-) Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Wait a minute, why is everyone getting aroused during workouts but me??? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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