Do I tell or let it be?

[gaius]

I don't know how she could have gotten away with it without giving some sort of sign to her sisters. Spending time alone with their husbands and no red flags were raised? If they didn't put two and two together then on some level they didn't want to know.

 

If that's the case then you'll probably just end up ostracized for lying and trying to smear their righteous husbands. Even going to the lengths of making a fake diary to do it. What a sick woman you are. People only see what they want to see.

[gaius]

Let's see, the three times I've tried to "out" someone for one thing or another. For the good of the other person.

 

1) When I was in my teens I found out some guy in his 30's was trying to get with a 14 year old. I told my supervisors, her parents, everyone I could and he still f'ed her anyways and I got a reputation for being difficult for complaining about it.

 

2) A neighbor down the street was highly recommending of a contractor that I figured out was scamming people when I found him inside casing a house when he was supposed to be doing roof work and thought nobody was home. After I told her and later it was found out he had kicked in roofs and gotten people to pay for the repairs she stopped speaking with me. Didn't like that I had figured it out while she looked like an ******* running around recommending him.

 

3) Overheard my cousin on the phone pretending to be stuck in some third world ****hole and trying to scam my grandmother for a few thousand dollars one time. Since he was in jail and needed it to get out. So I notified my aunt and she pushed to put my grandmother in a nursing home for being senile. And now tries to undermine me at every turn. That was probably the worst of worse.

 

Anyway, 3 strikes and I'm out. Now if I value a relationship I just let them go about their stupidity and dysfunction without saying anything. Trust me, they'll thank you for it.

[BetrayedH]

I hope you make sure the sisters get the truth. I know you are in doubt, but in doubt, I would rather take the action that potentially prevents innocent people from getting irreversibly hurt.

 

As someone who has had to get tested for STDs because my ex SO cheated on me, I would be so horrified if someone knew I was being cheated on (or had been cheated on in the past by the person I will still with -> indicating he/she might very well do it again) and could have saved me from getting the STD by telling me the truth. And as someone who almost got involved who's ex later turned out to have HIV and was sleeping around unprotected without telling people, I strongly urge you to tell the truth.

 

So I hope you make sure they know. Saving something so intangible as the "reputation" of someone who's own action would tarnish their reputation if they were uncovered, at the risk of something so real as something getting an STD (either herpes, hepatis or heavens forbid HIV), seems wrong to me.

 

If she wanted to make sure no-one ever knew, she would have told you to destroy the diary, not that "you will be shocked". So you wouldn't be going against her will. I think unfortunately you are left with two sad options. I think it will be easier for you to live knowing you did the right thing and potentially saving at least two people's lives&health&their future/years (by giving them the option to make an informed decision now as to whether they want to stay or not, rather than them finding out years from now, when they have (more) kids, are older,...), than to live in worry/fear that someday they will catch an STD, find out themselves when it will be much harder to leave etc., will have lost more years of their lives.

 

I think all innocent people gain more than they lose by you telling or making sure they are told. And I believe the parent's would preferred knowing that their girl had made mistakes, but on hear death-bad tried to repair (by giving you basically permission to read) them in her own way, and would preferr to know that their two other girls, who are still alive, are protected from being hurt even more by two cheating partners. I think most parents would prefer that, to have the two still alive daughters safe than their memory of their untarnished yet their two daughters hurt.

 

And lastly - the truth usually comes out eventually. Not telling the truth won't save those two poor sisters. And not telling the truth will eventually eat you alive inside.

 

I know it's hard and unfair and horrible that you've been in this position. But I believe she chose your, her dear friend, to help her mend her bad choices after she would be again, in the best way she could. It would ultimately serve her memory well that she, in the end, tried to do her best to make sure her sisters & parents were protected from further her, even at the expense of her "reputation".

 

With best of wishes,

Calvin&Hobbes

 

What a great post.

[CFMB]

What a great post.

 

Yes it was, thanks Hobbe's Wagon (formally Calvin's wagon )

 

I've made my mind up that I will be confronting the boyfriend/husband.

 

How do I go about this?

Do I see them together or separately?

If I see them separately do I tell each one about the other?

Do I go to their homes or invite them to mine?

 

I wont be showing them the original diary just in case it "accidentally" gets destroyed.

 

If they deny, deny, deny do I then go to the sisters?

What sort of time frame should I give them to act?

 

Sorry for all these questions, I should be able to make my own mind up but this whole thing has thrown me.

[BetrayedH]

Yes it was, thanks Hobbe's Wagon (formally Calvin's wagon )

 

I've made my mind up that I will be confronting the boyfriend/husband.

 

How do I go about this?

Do I see them together or separately?

If I see them separately do I tell each one about the other?

Do I go to their homes or invite them to mine?

 

I wont be showing them the original diary just in case it "accidentally" gets destroyed.

 

If they deny, deny, deny do I then go to the sisters?

What sort of time frame should I give them to act?

 

Sorry for all these questions, I should be able to make my own mind up but this whole thing has thrown me.

 

Well, I'm glad to see that you've decided to take action. But I'm not sure that this plan is going to work. Even if they don't deny it, you wouldn't be there when they make any sort of 'confession' to their betrayed wife/GF. They will certainly minimize the story, if they don't outright lie about it all. More likely, they'll be on notice that you're a threat and will start painting you as a crazy person. No kidding; it happens.

 

It just seems that you'll now have an unnecessary middle man to deliver the truth to the sisters and you couldn't have chosen worse people to trust in delivering the news. You know?

 

Speaking from some level of experience, I can tell you that most betrayed spouses will believe their wayward spouse and not believe the people telling them about a betrayal. So what happens is that the person revealing the truth needs to bring concrete proof. In this case, it's the diary. But you can't trust them with the diary.

 

I don't know. If your goal is to make sure the sisters know the truth so that they can make an informed decision moving forward, I think you're going to have to do it yourself. But maybe I'm missing your motivation for 'confronting' the husband & BF.

[CFMB]

I don't know. If your goal is to make sure the sisters know the truth so that they can make an informed decision moving forward, I think you're going to have to do it yourself. But maybe I'm missing your motivation for 'confronting' the husband & BF.

 

If I confront them and they do minimise the story is that a bad thing? In a perverse way I hope that they make up some story that still acknowledges their cheating but does not mention my best friend.

 

If he tells his wife he cheated and that it's all over, goodbye doesn't everyone win?

The wife gets the truth (I realise not the full truth but enough to get the right result), the husband gets his dues and my best friends name is kept out of the mud.

 

I probably shouldn't manipulate the situation but that would be a pretty desirable outcome.

[salparadise]

Are you planning to leave a letter with someone detailing the full story, and whereabouts of the diary, along with instructions that it be opened in the event of your own untimely death? Or do you presume that these two men will understand that you're just doing what you believe is right and be ok with it?

[BetrayedH]

If I confront them and they do minimise the story is that a bad thing? In a perverse way I hope that they make up some story that still acknowledges their cheating but does not mention my best friend.

 

If he tells his wife he cheated and that it's all over, goodbye doesn't everyone win?

The wife gets the truth (I realise not the full truth but enough to get the right result), the husband gets his dues and my best friends name is kept out of the mud.

 

I probably shouldn't manipulate the situation but that would be a pretty desirable outcome.

 

I don't know. The manipulation part doesn't sit well with me. Who is really to say what the best ending is, really? When really faced with infidelity, a very high percentage of betrayed spouses (80-90%) will at least make an initial attempt to forgive and reconcile. If he's allowed to downplay and minimize (which is just about guaranteed to happen), she may forgive him under false pretenses. That seems the most likely outcome to me. It's even more likely since he's going to come across as if he's made this great voluntary confession out of guilt when really he was just blackmailed. Ultimately, how would you really even know if he told her anything? It's not like she would have to report-out to you what he said.

 

Personally I think the best approach is to give both women the truth (and proof) and then support them in whatever decisions they want to make. It gives them the right to make a truly informed choice. They could be unwittingly attached to long-term serial cheaters (which happens a lot when they get away with it), get exposed to STDs, and be making decisions with lifelong implications (like marriage, buying a home, having children).

 

Forgive me if I sound like I'm harping. I don't mean that at all. Your deceased friend really left you in a quandry, one that you didn't ask for. I empathize with you and am just trying to offer an objective third party point of view. I tend to agree with Hobbes that she wanted you to act as her conscience when she lacked the courage to do it herself. At the end of the day, it's your choice to decide what you think is best and live with that decision.

[salparadise]

Forgive me if I sound like I'm harping. I don't mean that at all. Your deceased friend really left you in a quandry, one that you didn't ask for. I empathize with you and am just trying to offer an objective third party point of view.

 

Excuse me...

 

objective |əbˈjektiv|

adjective

1 (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts: historians try to be objective and impartial.

 

I do agree that she left him a quandary that he didn't ask for. I don't believe that creates a moral imperative for him to do anything in particular, or anything at all. He simply does not have to accept responsibility for her crazy, reckless life at the risk of ruining a bunch of others. If he chooses to act on this, it's his choice and one he will be responsible for.

[RedRobin]

Not sure why you are giving the bf and husband a heads up. They have already proven to be deceptive. They will likely do anything to keep it concealed.

 

Cut them out of the loop. Give the evidence to the people they have harmed. If those people decide not to acknowledge it, then your conscience is still clean... And it is their problem.

[BetrayedH]

Excuse me...

 

objective |əbˈjektiv|

adjective

1 (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts: historians try to be objective and impartial.

 

I do agree that she left him a quandary that he didn't ask for. I don't believe that creates a moral imperative for him to do anything in particular, or anything at all. He simply does not have to accept responsibility for her crazy, reckless life at the risk of ruining a bunch of others. If he chooses to act on this, it's his choice and one he will be responsible for.

 

It would be disingenous for anyone to claim to be fully objective on a relationship forum because we are all, to a real extent, the sum of our experiences. Yes, I am a former betrayed spouse, it's a part of my history and certainly there are things I learned from that experience. I suspect that the events of your life have also helped shape your opinions. To that extent, none of us are truly objective. But I'm also smart enough to understand that the OP's wayward friend is not my exwife. I don't have a dog in this hunt. I don't know any of these people and I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome. To that extent, I feel comfortable saying I'm an objective third party, especially since I make a real effort to remove my personal "feelings" from my posts and I think that's well established in my posting history.

 

Whether or not he has a moral imperative is pretty subjective, based on personal moral beliefs. I'm not big on morality per se because it seems inevitably based on religious beliefs. But I do try to follow somewhat of an ethical code. If the OP doesn't care about anyone but himself, he could certainly walk away without doing a thing and no one could compel him to act; he's not obligated in the legal sense of the term. You could easily argue that what is best for HIM is to do nothing. I have a feeling he wants to do more than that. If that's the case, I see nothing ethically wrong for giving truth to people being betrayed to spare them from further wasting their lives and I feel no compulsion to protect the betrayers. Where I disagree with you significantly is the idea that he would risking ruining the lives of others. It's the affairs that cause the hurt, not the telling of them.

[bubbaganoosh]

I told you what to do. make copies of the pages where your friend had gotten together with each of them and put it in a envelope, call them up and when you see them, just hand them the envelope and tell them to read it and tell them it came from her diary and leave it at that.

 

If it's true, you'll know soon enough by their actions. No doubt they will contact you real fast. I would also let each one know if you meet them separately, tell the husband that the boyfriend got his copy and let the boyfriend know that the husband got his copy. One of them is going to crack, you can bet the house on that.

 

If they call you and call your bluff, then tell them that the whole family can read the diary and you'll bring it over if that's what they want.

[salparadise]

It would be disingenous for anyone to claim to be fully objective on a relationship forum because we are all, to a real extent, the sum of our experiences. Yes, I am a former betrayed spouse...

 

Dude, I really don't care to debate but you clearly have an agenda. You advocate for betrayed spouses. It's the thing you identify with. You are promoting your belief that they have a right to be informed and therefore OP has an implied duty to do the right thing, which to you means to inform them. You said so outright: "I happen to be biased towards sharing the truth with people being betrayed."

 

It's perfectly fine that you feel this way, but the assertion that you are an objective third party is just absurd. Participating on a relationship forum does not inherently preclude objectivity, but holding and promoting a strong belief to the exclusion of other perspectives does. I did not make the claim of objectivity, so you need not test my statements for absolute objectivity as a defense for yours. However, I really do not have an agenda and don't presume to advise the OP with regard to who has what rights and so forth.

[Leigh 87]

The betrayed partner has a right to know.

 

I am truly sorry to hear your best friend died, that is awful. She doesn't deserve to have her life taken away dye to cheating. That is a given.

 

However, she doesn't deserve any exceptions for dying; sorry, but the partner that is still ALIVE and cheated with your best friend, has a partner also..

 

These betrayed women have RIGHT to know that their partners cheated.

 

EVERYONE has a RIGHT to have an informed decision as to WHO we want to regard as the closest person to us.

 

These betrayed women have had their RIGHT to make an informed decision, taken away from them. This is very wrong... indeed.

 

How would you like a partner to cheat on you with your sister or cousin?

 

Would you want to know that your partner cheated on you?

[BetrayedH]

Dude, I really don't care to debate but you clearly have an agenda. You advocate for betrayed spouses. It's the thing you identify with. You are promoting your belief that they have a right to be informed and therefore OP has an implied duty to do the right thing, which to you means to inform them. You said so outright: "I happen to be biased towards sharing the truth with people being betrayed."

 

It's perfectly fine that you feel this way, but the assertion that you are an objective third party is just absurd. Participating on a relationship forum does not inherently preclude objectivity, but holding and promoting a strong belief to the exclusion of other perspectives does. I did not make the claim of objectivity, so you need not test my statements for absolute objectivity as a defense for yours. However, I really do not have an agenda and don't presume to advise the OP with regard to who has what rights and so forth.

 

Actually, I'm an advocate for people on all three sides of the triangle. The truth has a funny way of being the right thing for everyone involved. I don't just identify with BSs; I've also been a WS and a married OM and have a long history of trying to help all of them. What I've learned is to be an advocate for truth. I don't think lying is good for the person being lied to, nor do I think it is good for the liar or anyone that helps participate in it. Based on my experiences, that's my opinion. I advocate honesty and yep, that includes exposing betrayal to those that need to know. That's when I think true healing is able to start for all the parties involved.

 

In this case, I think it's the right thing for the OP as well. He came here out of a crisis of conscience and probably knew that he is personally too close to the situation and so he's seeking an outside opinion. As someone that is removed from his situation, I provided my $.02 that comes from my conscience. Hell, I'm 3 years removed from my situation. My posting here is about helping others and giving back; this thread isn't about me even if you'd like to make it so.

 

Regardless, I've already granted you that no one here (myself included) can really claim to be fully objective because we are shaped by our experiences. You can't seem to accept winning the argument. This isn't science or history and he's not here asking for facts. He's asking for opinions and personal judgments. And if he was at all concerned about any bias I may have, he's now got more information on my background than probably any poster on this thread.

[CFMB]

Well I had the opportunity to confront the boyfriend and it did not go how I had imagined it. If anything I am now more confused than ever.

 

I told him what I knew and how I knew it and said if he denied it I could produce the diary. He acknowledged everything straight away, told me his gf knew and they had dealt with it. I found that hard to believe but he stuck to that story.

 

That night I got a visit from the sister alone and she confirmed that she knew and long story short asked me never to speak of it again. She said she had dealt with it and spoken to her sister about it BUT that is nowhere in the diary.

 

In any case I would love to honor her wish but now I am stuck as to whether I confront the husband of the other sister or not? If I do that it could all blow up and a by product will be that I will have exposed the younger sister and her bf explicitly against their wishes.

 

If I don't then she keeps living the lie but we have already been over that. Obviously the younger sister knows nothing about the older one. I'm not sure whether I should confide in her and maybe that will change her mind about letting it become public?

 

I really hate my life at the moment, this is all just way too hard. What's my next step? I thought I had it all figured out but now I am more confused than ever.

[Silly_Girl]

If you want to talk to the other couple, just do so. It doesn't need to be connected to sister #1. It's about their own relationship, you can talk to him/them.

[BetrayedH]

You've got one sister taken care of (kudos to you for that). You made sure that she could make an informed decision, which she did. It is common for people to try to reconcile. That's her choice but at least you made sure she wasn't lied to, betrayed, and tricked into staying with her spouse for the rest of the one life she has to live. I think now it's time for the other one. You have one more difficult conversation to go and you can wash your hands of this.

 

Edit to add: I don't think either sister needs to know about the other. And personally, I don't think you need to go thru the husband either; I don't really get why you have that middleman in the process but it's obviously your choice.

Edited April 29, 2014 by BetrayedH

[Hobbes' wagon]

Hi!

 

You did a the right thing and handled things very well talking to one sister and her SO!

 

I do hope you will talk to the other sister as well, I see no new reason for you not to talk to her?

 

Best wishes!

[readynow]

Well done! That went well; all you need to do for her now is not speak of it again. Whether she spoke to your friend or not no longer matters. At least now you know that the parties involved know about it.

 

Now you must tell the married sister. Don't tell the husband, just the sister. No need to tell her about the other sister.

 

The way you handled this is very mature in my opinion so whatever we advise, just follow your gut and this should go well too.

[CFMB]

all you need to do for her now is not speak of it again.

 

That is the easy part. I am worried that by telling the other sister that everything will blow up and somehow unwittingly the younger sisters situation will be exposed.

 

I would have still honored her wish and not spoken of it but that wont ease any guilt.

 

Having said all that I am going to tell. I am having breakfast with the older sister tomorrow and plan to share what I know. I am really nervous about this, I have had headaches for a few days now that I can't get rid of, stress headaches I am guessing.

 

Fingers crossed it goes well.

[CFMB]

Well it's been done and it's very sad to see the hurt it has caused. I'm not sure I've even done the right thing now.

 

The older sister and her husband have split in a very public and angry way. The parents are really struggling dealing with not only the breakup but also why and the light it sheds on their deceased daughter.

 

The younger sister and her boyfriend are keeping quiet about what happened to them.

 

I have been thanked at times and blamed at others as all their emotions vary coming to grips with this. The husband has sworn that I will regret the decision to tell. I feel pretty alone, this is my pseudo family but I don't feel entirely welcome at the moment.

 

The older sister whom I just told and has been my biggest supporter through this and now wants to come around and read the diary. I obviously have to allow this but she will then learn about her younger sister. That means I will have broken my promise to her to keep it quiet.

 

This was never going to work out well no matter what I did but I still feel really drained and emotional that it seems as though I have not just lost my dearest friend but now will likely lose an entire family (or at the very least it will never be the same).

 

 

I hope no-one else ever has to deal with something like this.

[BHsigh]

Well it's been done and it's very sad to see the hurt it has caused. I'm not sure I've even done the right thing now.

 

The older sister and her husband have split in a very public and angry way. The parents are really struggling dealing with not only the breakup but also why and the light it sheds on their deceased daughter.

 

The younger sister and her boyfriend are keeping quiet about what happened to them.

 

I have been thanked at times and blamed at others as all their emotions vary coming to grips with this. The husband has sworn that I will regret the decision to tell. I feel pretty alone, this is my pseudo family but I don't feel entirely welcome at the moment.

 

The older sister whom I just told and has been my biggest supporter through this and now wants to come around and read the diary. I obviously have to allow this but she will then learn about her younger sister. That means I will have broken my promise to her to keep it quiet.

 

This was never going to work out well no matter what I did but I still feel really drained and emotional that it seems as though I have not just lost my dearest friend but now will likely lose an entire family (or at the very least it will never be the same).

 

 

I hope no-one else ever has to deal with something like this.

 

I would not let her read the diary, your friend (her sister), left it for you and you alone. Just tell the older sister that there are things in there that her sister wanted to be kept private. Copy everthing that is of relevance to her and give that to her. She does not need to know about her other sisters issue, do not let her. Everyone that needs to know, now knows.

 

I know this is tough for you right now, but you did the right thing and things will calm down soon enough. I am really glad to hear that the oldest sister is on your side though, that will be a big help to calm everything down.

[BetrayedH]

Normally I am a big advocate for the truth. Usually when it feels important to keep a secret, it's really a lie that has even more reason for being exposed.

 

However, I'm not a fan of widespread exposure of affairs. Some people feel a need to tell everyone. Personally, I think there are some people that 'need to know' and invariably, they are the people being betrayed. There's rarely really a need to tell anyone else. Give people the courtesy of being able to make an informed decision. It's just common decency.

 

I see no reason that the older sister needs to know about the younger sister. I see no reason that the older sister needs to read the entire diary. As the others have said, I think you can show her the portions that are directly relevant to her H's infidelity and that's it. The rest of the diary is frankly, none of her business.

 

Otherwise, I most certainly sympathize with you for the crappy hand you were dealt. There was no scenario where everything was going to be all good. I think you have good reasoning for the exposure you've done so far. I would think long and hard about whether you can find good reasons to expose further. If the older sister has legit questions about the nature of her husband's infidelity, that seems reasonable. Exposing all of your deceased friend's dirty laundry seems unnecessary.

 

Once again though, I have to say that I think you've done extraordinarily well. Your decisions have been conscientious ones, not impulsive or selfish ones. I think your deceased friend would even support them when she didn't have the courage to do the same. Keep it up. I applaud your efforts.

[Silly_Girl]

The diary is not public property. It would be better to burn it than have it go round the family