Moral high ground?

[Journee]

Sure that's why everyone wants to get married.

 

I don't get the rest of your argument. Sexual sin has always existed, but everyone didn't indulge in adultery, all people don't screw around on their partners. You don't have any proof and it's just not substantiated even in scriptures. The most discussed topic in the bible is finances and the most discussed sin is idolatry/lying.

 

Sure cities were destroyed because of sexual immorality but there are also examples including a entire book about love.

Just as you can say people weren't happy even though they had long marriages, I can argue for the opposite. Slaves in ancient times and here in America gave up everything including their freedom to marry.

 

If you don't believe in legal marriage, that piece of paper, then don't do it. But for others I encourage that you get legal document and don't settle.

 

I don't think we are understanding one another. I don't have a problem with legal marriage. Nor do I know how you came to the conclusion I did.

 

If you want to believe that all marriages are created equal then ok. I don't need proof that isn't the case because logic dictates it isn't possible to know that every marriage in a certain era was fulfilling. Longevity proves nothing.

 

Marriage is a beautiful thing but are not perfect likely ever.

 

Everyone doesn't commit adultery now either.

 

My argument was in rebuttal to you stating that people didn't indulge in certain things generations ago. That simply isn't true. It's marked through history. It's a fact.

 

I'm not against marriage. I am M! I'm just stating that this Pollyanna view of what marriage is or is not is not helpful. It's something different to everyone. All marriages are different and there is no way of knowing what ones were fulfilling.

[Journee]

I'd first ask you to define exactly adultery of the heart. I've never thought of having intercourse with a man outside of my marriage. I'm not sure that it's fair to say most men look at a woman and immediately think of having sex with her either. To me and I'd have to do some research, that lust sounds like porn addiction. Porn addictions are seldom exclusive.

 

You have never heard of anyone have fantasies?

 

Then I am not sure how we can discuss this if that's unheard of.

 

Check out the rest of LS. You will see lots of people struggling with lusting for someone they ought not

[Fluttershy]

It says if you divorce a person for any reason outside of adultery and that person remarries then they have committed adultery. It specifically says that individuals who divorce because of adultery are free to marry.

 

Actually the word used in the often quoted passage is not te same word as adultry but rather fornication. The very misquoted passage when delved in to actually refers to a man thinking he is marrying a virgin only to find out someone has been there before and he was basically decived into the wedding. Now a days we woupd use the term annulment and not divorce. But it is much easier for people to cling to the incorrect translation an pick and choose from the new testament what they want to believe rather than realizing that redemption and forgiveness is supposed to be the main message. It is actually quite an interesting analys on a much over used verse.

[cocorico]

Ahhh...so the 2 of you were open and honest with the BW and she knew about your relationship all along?

 

I'm not in the habit of calling up people I don't know, to discuss my sex life so no, I didn't tell her. But we conducted our R as publicly and openly as any R, we did not hide it and it was well known to his family, his friends and colleagues and anyone who mattered that we were in a R.

 

As for informing her specifically, he did that at the point that t became relevant to her. I had - and have - no R with her so I have never felt the slightest need to exchange any words with her. She was his problem to resolve, not mine.

[Spark1111]

Morals are fluid and interpreted in many ways in context in serving society as a whole. That is why we have laws, laws to protect those that threaten society to thrive. Basic morality, is to not steal from and cheat others and physically harm someone.

 

Infidelity and morality are at odds and it is a lesson in hypocrisy. No one can legislate crimes of the heart and it shouldn't be legislated. People should be free to love and to fall out of love. That is why divorce is a basic moral right to remove yourself from someone you no longer love.

 

In western society, in the last few decades the grounds for divorce and the limitations toward divorce has evolved to make it faster, without prejudice and removed "fault". No fault divorce, as seen by governing legislation is removing itself from governing individuals moral values. The judge in your divorce case is not concerned about who cheated with who, the main objective is splitting marital property, child support and child custody.

 

In a time and age when divorce has not been easier, more attainable, cheating is at an all time high. This begs the question, what is the cause of this.

 

I see it as, wanting it all, feeling entitled to it all, to be married but also act single if the opportunity arises. In order to sustain this nirvana of self gratification at the risk of losing it all is a lesson in hypocrisy.

 

I've never met a cheater who wished to be cheated on.

 

I've met a liar who wished to be lied to.

 

[b[/b]It's strange but it sometimes feels like it's worse to be accused of being judgemental than it is to be accused of being a cheater.

 

Smh

 

Only by those who cheat, Furious. that's the irony of it, or hypocrisy, if you will....

 

if it was TRULY worse to be judge mental, why are affairs conducted with such painstaking attention to the details that keep them secret?

 

NEVER knew of a couple about to bust up over infidelity ( including us) who were NOT judged six ways to Sunday.

 

Was I not loving enough, thin enough, devoted enough, blah, blah, blah to keep my man?

 

Or, how could he do that to Spark? ( Obviously my supporters) What kind of father does that?

 

And the OW: What kind of woman engages with a MM? Was she after his money? Success? Status? How could she do that to a family?

 

How could he?

 

IRL, EVERYONE in the triangle is judged, often harshly.

 

It's fear based, but it is very real.

[Spark1111]

I'm not in the habit of calling up people I don't know, to discuss my sex life so no, I didn't tell her. But we conducted our R as publicly and openly as any R, we did not hide it and it was well known to his family, his friends and colleagues and anyone who mattered that we were in a R.

 

As for informing her specifically, he did that at the point that t became relevant to her. I had - and have - no R with her so I have never felt the slightest need to exchange any words with her. She was his problem to resolve, not mine.

 

wow! And he resolved it openly, honestly and authentically at "the point it became relevant to her". How long into the affair was that?

 

You, she, and his children should be so proud of that resolution.

[BHsigh]

If you're driving and you see a woman whose car is broken down on the side of the road and she has small children with them, just keep driving, it's not your responsibility that they didn't provide the required maintenance to the car, why should you concern yourself.

 

Someones house in on fire while they're on vacation and you're the only neighbor for miles? Just go relax, don't bother calling the fire department, they should have had an alarm system installed or something, it's not your concern.

 

All that used oil, just dump it in the river, the people down stream aren't your concern whatsoever.

 

Some guy laying on the jogging path in the state park with a broken? Just keep going, it's no concern of yours, someone may come along eventually.

 

Yelling and screaming next door, sounds like the guy is drunk and beating his kids and wife? Who cares, not your concern, go back to bed.

[Fluttershy]

If you're driving and you see a woman whose car is broken down on the side of the road and she has small children with them, just keep driving, it's not your responsibility that they didn't provide the required maintenance to the car, why should you concern yourself.

 

Someones house in on fire while they're on vacation and you're the only neighbor for miles? Just go relax, don't bother calling the fire department, they should have had an alarm system installed or something, it's not your concern.

 

All that used oil, just dump it in the river, the people down stream aren't your concern whatsoever.

 

Some guy laying on the jogging path in the state park with a broken? Just keep going, it's no concern of yours, someone may come along eventually.

 

Yelling and screaming next door, sounds like the guy is drunk and beating his kids and wife? Who cares, not your concern, go back to bed.

 

They did a small documentary on "people minding their own business". They had actors play out an abduction scene. How many people actually got involved was minute. When asked people said they were afraid to get involved in case it was a bratty kid or they misread the situation. So they put their fear of meddling and pride over a child's life! And if people think that way over a child's safety i'm not surprised they disregard someone's feelings in infidelity cases.

 

If less people minded their own business and more peoeple cared about others... The world would be a better place where we would have each others back.

[BHsigh]

If less people minded their own business and more peoeple cared about others... The world would be a better place where we would have each others back.

 

Exactly!! Sometimes I think that I was born in the wrong generation.

[janedoe67]

They did a small documentary on "people minding their own business". They had actors play out an abduction scene. How many people actually got involved was minute. When asked people said they were afraid to get involved in case it was a bratty kid or they misread the situation. So they put their fear of meddling and pride over a child's life! And if people think that way over a child's safety i'm not surprised they disregard someone's feelings in infidelity cases.

 

If less people minded their own business and more peoeple cared about others... The world would be a better place where we would have each others back.

 

Actually it's more specific than that. In this case, it's like the bank robber (WS) and the getaway driver (AP). And the getaway driver thinks they did nothing wrong because "Well, I wasn't the one who actually robbed the bank."

[BHsigh]

Actually it's more specific than that. In this case, it's like the bank robber (WS) and the getaway driver (AP). And the getaway driver thinks they did nothing wrong because "Well, I wasn't the one who actually robbed the bank."

 

Thank you, that's the one I missed.

[HermioneG]

Actually it's more specific than that. In this case, it's like the bank robber (WS) and the getaway driver (AP). And the getaway driver thinks they did nothing wrong because "Well, I wasn't the one who actually robbed the bank."

 

Absolutely correct. Wonderful analogy.

[underpants]

The 'moral highground' is a fool's journey.

[cocorico]

wow! And he resolved it openly, honestly and authentically at "the point it became relevant to her". How long into the affair was that?

 

It was at the point where the kids were old enough and emotionally robust enough to face another split, and at the point where his IC had enabled him to think clearly, and to recover sufficiently from the abuse to stand up to her.

 

You, she, and his children should be so proud of that resolution.

 

I would not dream of speaking to her, let alone for her; but the kids and I are very happy with how it all worked out.

[Spark1111]

It was at the point where the kids were old enough and emotionally robust enough to face another split, and at the point where his IC had enabled him to think clearly, and to recover sufficiently from the abuse to stand up to her.

 

 

 

I would not dream of speaking to her, let alone for her; but the kids and I are very happy with how it all worked out.

 

You make very valid points. Did you have one of the very rare, very few, TRUE EXIT affair?

 

And not to t/j....but do you ever worry if he grows unhappy with you.....he may be able to have the same coping mechanisms?

 

PLEASE TELL ME when he is unhappy with you, or feels you are not meeting his needs....he verbalized it to you, yes???????

[cocorico]

You make very valid points. Did you have one of the very rare, very few, TRUE EXIT affair?

 

That depends on how you'd characterise an exit affair, I guess. I've seen the term used in many different ways, some more relevant to our particular case than others.,

 

And not to t/j....but do you ever worry if he grows unhappy with you.....he may be able to have the same coping mechanisms?

 

Worry, no. Accept that it's possible, of course. But I don't go around borrowing trouble or worrying about what might or might not happen - having made a risk assessment at the time, I decided to take the chance. If circumstances change or new evidence leads me to review my assessment, I'll do so, but I'm not going to ruin a great R by worrying about something outside of my control. If it happens, I'll deal with it then.

 

PLEASE TELL ME when he is unhappy with you, or feels you are not meeting his needs....he verbalized it to you, yes???????

 

I'm really not sure how to answer this. I wouldn't characterise our R as being about us "meeting each other's needs" - it's more about two people waking up each day and choosing to be together because life together is just so much better than life apart. Has it been all sunshine and roses - well, we've certainly faced our share of challenges, but the R itself has been surprisingly easy. We just rub along together really well. We recognise each other's moods and foibles, and we talk constantly. So yes, when he's edgy or unhappy or grumpy, he let's me know, and we explore why, and we address it; and I do the same with him. But we're both pretty chilled people, we treat each other respectfully and genuinely like each other, and we communicate all the time so it never feels like An Issue Needs To Be Addressed.

[goodyblue]

That depends on how you'd characterise an exit affair, I guess. I've seen the term used in many different ways, some more relevant to our particular case than others.,

 

 

 

Worry, no. Accept that it's possible, of course. But I don't go around borrowing trouble or worrying about what might or might not happen - having made a risk assessment at the time, I decided to take the chance. If circumstances change or new evidence leads me to review my assessment, I'll do so, but I'm not going to ruin a great R by worrying about something outside of my control. If it happens, I'll deal with it then.

 

 

 

I'm really not sure how to answer this. I wouldn't characterise our R as being about us "meeting each other's needs" - it's more about two people waking up each day and choosing to be together because life together is just so much better than life apart. Has it been all sunshine and roses - well, we've certainly faced our share of challenges, but the R itself has been surprisingly easy. We just rub along together really well. We recognise each other's moods and foibles, and we talk constantly. So yes, when he's edgy or unhappy or grumpy, he let's me know, and we explore why, and we address it; and I do the same with him. But we're both pretty chilled people, we treat each other respectfully and genuinely like each other, and we communicate all the time so it never feels like An Issue Needs To Be Addressed.

 

It is too bad that when most people read things like this, they refuse to believe it. Most people on LS don't to believe that I am happy in my relationship either. I'm glad you've found someone that you can live happily with.

[gettingstronger]

Most people on LS don't to believe that I am happy in my relationship either.

 

 

Its probably because most of us on here are still in some sort of healing mode thats why we seek out this type of forum-its also the tone of your posts that point to whats beneath the surface-

 

Its just seems to me that if one was happy and has moved on they would have little time or inclination to spend so much time on a forum like this rubbing others noses in their situation-your posts come across as wishful thinking- to paraphrase, me thinks you protest too much-

 

JMO

[goodyblue]

Most people on LS don't to believe that I am happy in my relationship either.

 

 

Its probably because most of us on here are still in some sort of healing mode thats why we seek out this type of forum-its also the tone of your posts that point to whats beneath the surface-

 

Its just seems to me that if one was happy and has moved on they would have little time or inclination to spend so much time on a forum like this rubbing others noses in their situation-your posts come across as wishful thinking- to paraphrase, me thinks you protest too much-

 

JMO

 

 

Yeah, I hear that sometimes. Honestly, I don't really care what anyone thinks, I just think it's kind of sad that everyone thinks they know what's going on in everyone else's life from some posts. You will notice I go through phases where I don't post at all for a few days, then I post more, then less. It's because I am stuck at a desk at work and bored, so I post.

 

Honestly, I should stop posting altogether. I don't really have anything of merit to say. I'm happy with things as they are and have no need for this place. Sometimes I just come here and I'm amazed at the rancor on both sides and I end up getting in the middle where I shouldn't. At the end of if, I turn off my computer and go live my life, while for some, they are still in the middle of their pain, etc, and it hurts them a lot more.

 

I've no longer got a dog in this fight, so to speak.

 

I hope you are well.

 

xxx

[sweet_pea]

It is too bad that when most people read things like this, they refuse to believe it. Most people on LS don't to believe that I am happy in my relationship either. I'm glad you've found someone that you can live happily with.

 

You say often, that no one believes you're happy, but who exactly is saying that? As often as you mention you're happiness with him, I've yet to see someone say flat-out that they don't/refuse to believe you....

[goodyblue]

You say often, that no one believes you're happy, but who exactly is saying that? As often as you mention you're happiness with him, I've yet to see someone say flat-out that they don't/refuse to believe you....

 

Yeeeahhh... uh huh. It's not only here that they say it, but I guess you missed this post just before the one I posted???

 

 

"Its just seems to me that if one was happy and has moved on they would have little time or inclination to spend so much time on a forum like this rubbing others noses in their situation-your posts come across as wishful thinking- to paraphrase, me thinks you protest too much-"

[sweet_pea]

Yeeeahhh... uh huh. It's not only here that they say it, but I guess you missed this post just before the one I posted???

 

 

"Its just seems to me that if one was happy and has moved on they would have little time or inclination to spend so much time on a forum like this rubbing others noses in their situation-your posts come across as wishful thinking- to paraphrase, me thinks you protest too much-"

 

Yeah, I did miss it. However, you say "most people" don't believe it or refuse to… and I'm still wondering who counts as this group of "most people on LS?" How many is most to you? Maybe I just miss most of the comments that accuse you of faking it? Either way, if you're happy… cool! Do you.

[anne1707]

Yeeeahhh... uh huh. It's not only here that they say it, but I guess you missed this post just before the one I posted???

 

 

"Its just seems to me that if one was happy and has moved on they would have little time or inclination to spend so much time on a forum like this rubbing others noses in their situation-your posts come across as wishful thinking- to paraphrase, me thinks you protest too much-"

 

You make a fair point Goody. But this another one of those themes that go both ways sadly. I have seen similar posts made by OW at BS who have reconciled. And as for what I get as a fWS.... Well to some I am the devil in sheep's clothing and am supposedly still in an affair that ended years ago.

 

I still stand by my view on affairs. If anybody should get grief, it is the WS and generally not the BS or OW.

[Speakingofwhich]

You say often, that no one believes you're happy, but who exactly is saying that? As often as you mention you're happiness with him, I've yet to see someone say flat-out that they don't/refuse to believe you....[/QUOTe]

 

Pea, the post below in essence suggests the poster doesn't believe she's happy. The phrase, "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much," is a common one for suggesting whatever the person is saying is the opposite of reality. You might have missed this post.

If you go to the original post you might notice a couple of other posters "liked" it so guess that means they agree with the assessment.

 

 

Its just seems to me that if one was happy and has moved on they would have little time or inclination to spend so much time on a forum like this rubbing others noses in their situation-your posts come across as wishful thinking- to paraphrase, me thinks you protest too much-

 

JMO

 

ten characters

Edited April 17, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Speakingofwhich]

Oh, just noticed goodyblue cited the same post I did. Sorry to repeat!