Moral high ground?

[AlwaysGrowing]

I also take the whole "the MM/MW told me lies" as Blameshifting onto the WS.

 

Unless, the lie was "I am not married" or " I am separated and have filed for divorce". ...the "lied to" is disingenuous.

 

What is more accurate...is that the outcome of the affair was not what was promised. Having the affair....was never the issue for the AP. The affair...they were okay with....not getting the outcome they wanted in the end? That made the affair and the WS a POS.

 

Mental gymnastics.

[ladydesigner]

I agree with you. You and yiur husband have come a long way. You're not the same person while in your affair. You've grown and made great change in being the woman you are now.

 

I also agree that a Betrayed spouse does not own the higher ground for all eternity. Many betrayed spouses, which I was suprised to learn, go on to be the OW/OW. That's the height of hypocrisy.

 

That would be me and yes it is the height of hypocrisy, unfortunately at the time I had such rage and poor coping skills that I ended up having my own A.

[ladydesigner]

Agreed, when my husband tried the whole I didn't know what I was getting into thing, I reminded him that he is an intelligent adult and so he either didn't care about the outcome or wasn't thinking about it clearly but he certainly knew what he was doing was wrong and would end badly.

 

 

This was certainly true of my RA

[bv120]

To make a long story short, a few months after d-day my husband confesses that many of the men in his circle of work colleagues and the environment at this company is filled with cheating husbands. It was, accepted and endorsed.

 

Birds of a feather stick together......

 

 

 

 

Don't forget the cheating wives. Most of my close married GFs are either cheating, or looking to cheat. I cheated in my first marriage and had an EA in my second marriage. Like it or not infidelity is becoming socially acceptable in many circles. Yes, birds of a feather certainly do flock together.

 

 

bv

[Realist3]

Agreed, when my husband tried the whole I didn't know what I was getting into thing, I reminded him that he is an intelligent adult and so he either didn't care about the outcome or wasn't thinking about it clearly but he certainly knew what he was doing was wrong and would end badly.

 

 

This statement is worthy of a thread by itself.

[Spark1111]

I don't know about moral high ground.

 

IRL I am considered one of the least judge mental people out there....People have always confided their deepest, darkest secrets, sought my advice, because they TRUSTED me not to judge and NOT to gossip.

 

I am always kind.

 

It made me a great journalist and I sought a second career as a MSW.

 

With that being said, I LOVED my H, worked tirelessly to keep hearth and home, manage our children, and support his professional goals.

 

He said, WE never meant to hurt you, and....I thought I could control it ( the affair) which translates to: I never thought I'd get caught by you because you so loved and trusted me.....you made it easy for me.....and her...to deceive you.

 

IF, as a BS, you loved your spouse as I did, made love frequently, and self-sacrificed to the nth degree to support them.....discovering the affair was a kick to the stomach, a wrenching of your heart, a wringing of your reality.

 

I was the ONLY true victim here. I do not care what he said to the OW, or she said to him, or how they convinced themselves or why I was sooo unimportant to their secret relationship....

 

I was important to ME, and I was the TRUE victim in their deception of me.

 

She knew he was married. He knew he was married.....and enjoying all the benefits of that relationship NO MATTER what he told her.

 

For her, I was only one phone call away if she truly sought the truth. She never did. Hell, she never returned a kind phone call after DDay.

 

For him, I was only one conversation of letting him go he if truly thought the grass was greener with her. I told him so, often. I loved him enough to let him go IF he thought he could be happier elsewhere.

 

Cowards, the both of them.

 

What can I say? I don't know moral high ground, or what constitutes hypocrisy. I just know I didn't deserve the pain and adolescent subterfuge that came from my FWS's affair.

[Furious]

Morals are fluid and interpreted in many ways in context in serving society as a whole. That is why we have laws, laws to protect those that threaten society to thrive. Basic morality, is to not steal from and cheat others and physically harm someone.

 

Infidelity and morality are at odds and it is a lesson in hypocrisy. No one can legislate crimes of the heart and it shouldn't be legislated. People should be free to love and to fall out of love. That is why divorce is a basic moral right to remove yourself from someone you no longer love.

 

In western society, in the last few decades the grounds for divorce and the limitations toward divorce has evolved to make it faster, without prejudice and removed "fault". No fault divorce, as seen by governing legislation is removing itself from governing individuals moral values. The judge in your divorce case is not concerned about who cheated with who, the main objective is splitting marital property, child support and child custody.

 

In a time and age when divorce has not been easier, more attainable, cheating is at an all time high. This begs the question, what is the cause of this.

 

I see it as, wanting it all, feeling entitled to it all, to be married but also act single if the opportunity arises. In order to sustain this nirvana of self gratification at the risk of losing it all is a lesson in hypocrisy.

 

I've never met a cheater who wished to be cheated on.

 

I've met a liar who wished to be lied to.

 

It's strange but it sometimes feels like it's worse to be accused of being judgemental than it is to be accused of being a cheater.

 

Smh

Edited April 13, 2014 by Furious

[FoolishOW]

Damn, I posted the War and Peace of replies and it went pooft!

I remember the poster who was having an A while caring for a sick partner. I also remember some of the responses were pretty judgemental.

 

So, this caught my interest:

I'm interested in feedback as to whether infidelity is a study on moral high ground and hypocrisy.

 

I had, up until last month a very good friend who had an A for over 15 years, he told all and sundry that his wife had a terminal illness, that he was caring for her, that he would be with my friend eventually. I have no words for the idea that she was waiting for someone to die before she could be with the man she loved. I saw how she would worry when his wife was ill, would read up on her illness to offer advice to the MM. I saw them together and thought how they made a great couple, then I noticed he was never with her in their county, they would meet in away from it all places and he was never, ever there when it mattered. The excuses he made, over and over again, the timelines he made which changed from week to week. He let her down when her grandson died, when her father died, when she nearly died, each time he found a reason to stay away and each time she believed him.

 

My friend had become used to being put on hold because of the BS illness, many thought he was selfless to stay when he so clearly loved my friend. I have never, ever understood A's, I could and would never, ever knowingly and willingly share the person I love, integrity and what is right aside, that is the one thing that wouldn't work for me. I don't give me to someone who I know is giving a part of themselves to someone else. My friend knew my feelings as we had numerous discussions about it, I would never be an excuse for them both nor would I be with them socially. I squared that away as my line in the sand, how to remain friends with this wonderful person while disapproving of her choice to have an A? My friend had wonderful qualities which defined her, the A did not.

 

When he just went from her life without a goodbye to live the life he and she had planned with his wife, who had no terminal illness, my friend looked back at all those years of her loving him, supporting him, planning and waiting for him and realised it had all been a huge elaborate lie. Worse, for her, she felt she had lost credibility as a good person, that who she had thought she was and what she was most proud of, namely her integrity, was in ashes. I disagreed with her, rattled off the thousand and one things she had achieved and done, yet it was her finally looking at the last 15 years without being clouded by her love goggles, as she called them, that she felt less than the person she had always thought she was.

 

I watched a beautiful, lovely, supportive friend vanish. Was it hypocritical for me to stand by her? maybe. I value my integrity, who doesn't? Who doesn't want to be thought of as a good person, if integrity is what we value how can any of us square away the things we know are wrong? To walk away would have compromised my love for my friend, to have left her when she needed me most would have made me question my morality. I have seen my H tear himself apart with his guilt and regret and his feeling he has let not only us down, but himself. To try and help someone rebuild a lifetime of how they measure their worth and find themselves lacking is difficult and heart breaking. I would say that I have known and loved my H for over 28 years, during which he has been the bravest, most wonderful person I know, his A was 8 months, does that cancel out all those years? I would say not. It does not define him, not in my eyes.

 

After the A, when I had the truth of it all, I mentally balanced all we had, still had, all the years we still had to either live apart or stay and reconcile and the loss of him far tipped the balance in staying than the A. I question if he hadn't confessed before I found out, if he had loved, if the circumstances that led up to the A had been different, would I have stayed? would I have stayed if we were just into our relationship? the answer is probably not. I don't know where my morality is in all that or my hypocrisy. I think I make my own rules, the things I can look myself in the mirror each day and feel good about give me the rules I live by. I know I couldn't have an A, people say never say never, but, I know me, I couldn't and wouldn't knowingly share the person I love. That is my rule for me, my morality. Living with someone and being friends with someone who has crossed my line is balanced by what they are at their core.

 

I don't understand A's, I never have and never will. I don't understand the being OK with knowingly hurting another. I know that in an A at least two people will be hurt, yet those same two people are invariably the one's at loggerheads when the A is over. Makes no sense, there always seems to be a tit for tat blaming going on when the blame lies with choices. people choose to step outside their marriage, people choose to enable that and people choose to reconcile knowing all that. I think there is a level of hypocrisy in all of it. But, the morality of it, I live by my rule of never knowingly do harm to another. To compromise that, for me and still look myself in the mirror and be OK with me would be hypocritical if I made excuses for behaviour I could change, but chose not to.

 

My friend took her life last month, her eulogies spoke about what a wonderful woman she was, how she had selflessly worked to improve the lives of women the world over in the field of Human Rights, what a wonderful mother and friend she was. I couldn't agree more, her 67 years of life were not defined by her being an OW, the MM was nowhere to be seen. it said far more about him than anything else.

 

 

 

Seren... I enjoyed your post very much. The War and Peace comment was hysterical, and the rest was quite moving.

 

 

I am so incredibly sorry to hear of your friends passing, especially after the way you introduced her to "us" and wrote of her situation, and the trials she had experienced. I was stunned to read the words that she'd taken her life. What a tragically awful loss.

 

 

I lost my nephew this way... one day after his high school graduation. It is a painful experience like no other, and I'm sorry you're now a part of this "group". My condolences.

Edited April 13, 2014 by FoolishOW

[bv120]

 

In western society, in the last few decades the grounds for divorce and the limitations toward divorce has evolved to make it faster, without prejudice and removed "fault". No fault divorce, as seen by governing legislation is removing itself from governing individuals moral values. The judge in your divorce case is not concerned about who cheated with who, the main objective is splitting marital property, child support and child custody.

 

Smh

 

 

 

No fault divorce IMO has had a huge impact on the dramatic increase in infidelity and adultery. You're so right. The judge doesn't care. And for the most part society doesn't care. Have an affair, get caught, make certain the STBX realizes you can save all kind of $$$$$ on a no fault and you're home free. No punishment whatsoever.

bv

[cocorico]

I'm interested in feedback as to whether infidelity is a study on moral high ground and hypocrisy.

 

I definitely think there is a great deal of hypocrisy involved. For example, if an OW posts something, she is the epitome of evil, but if a BW posts the exact same thing, then she is surrounded by coos and clucks of good wishes. Being a BW instantly wipes your slate clean of any wrongdoing past present or future. Amazing!

 

An example:

 

My H's XW had an A. She decided M did not suit her, that it oppressed women, and so she saw it as her right to take a lover. When her BH kicked her out, she moved in with and later M her fAP, all the while professing a distaste for monogamy and sexual fidelity, and eschewing any guilt at the way she had treated her BH.

 

After years of abuse, her second H found love elsewhere, and nurtured the new at while detaching from the vestigial M. She was incensed that he dared to "cheat" on her! After all, cheating was her prerogative, not anyone else's - and especially not if she was to be the "victim"!

 

OTOH you have a woman who has lied, cheated and abused, consistently treating others as "things" to get her own way, bullying subordinates at work, emotionally scarring her kids, harassing her aged in-laws, treating tradespeople and service staff very poorly and alienating everyone she comes into contact with. OTO, a survivor of an abusive R who transitioned out of the abusive M through an A, with an otherwise exemplary record (aside from a youthful penchant for trying to save broken women).

 

IRL, sympathy lies with him. Aside from one former colleague - herself a scorned FBW who was dumped for the OW - who remains her friend AFAIK, everyone else has chosen to sever contact with her. But here on BS Central, her own WS past is conveniently excused because of The Grand Atonement - she has been Betrayed! All the wrong she has ever committed has been washed away by the tears of betrayal, and all the future harm she will continue to commit excused as a symptom of the horror visited upon her. I guess the only way she could possibly tarnish her halo would be by signing up to become an OW.

 

Hypocrisy? yep.

[Arieswoman]

Wife of your mum, in response to post 61#

 

Years ago, when I was single and dating a took up with a guy who told me he was "separated".

 

Long story short. He was certainly "separated" as his wife (40's) had severe MS and was in a nursing home. He told me she had given him permission to seek female "companionship" elsewhere.

 

I asked him why he didn't divorce her and make a new life for himself. ( I didn't mean by this that he should abandon here and no longer visit her, just be legally free.)

 

He said that he felt bad about abandoning her and couldn't do that.

 

When I pushed him a bit more he admitted that she was getting free medical care here in UK because she had no assets of her own ( the house etc was in his name).

If he had divorced her and paid her what she was entitled to after 20+ years of marriage, he would have needed to sell the house and downsize to pay her off. Then all the money would have been taken by the State to fund her care.

 

So I worked out that his desire to keep his big house, smart cars and everything else that went with his lifestyle was a bigger pull than moral considerations.

 

She was a lady with, sadly, a progressive degenerative medical condition. She could have died the next week or lived another 10 years.

 

He was a sad lonely man who wanted female company but I walked away. I couldn't be a ghoul, waiting for his wife to die for us to be together. To me that was too abhorrant for words. I couldn't live with myself if I had done that.

[Journee]

Herbogglee is my take on it, marriages are not perfecis t, but going outside of marriage is a sure way to kill it. Work on your marriage and youto notrselves. From my point of view or biblical- infidelity is talkeis notd about as the ultimate betrayal from his people. Indeed your body when all is said and done is the only thing you posses and to share such an intimacy is revolting.

Society has a vested interest in families being whole. It is the foundation for a healthy nation, so anything that would destabilize that which our culture is built on takes on a new meaning.

 

 

Another wonderful thing about the bible and those who try to follow it's teachings is the forgiveness that God offers everyone for their sins on this earth. Also, instruction to not pass judgement lest you be judged yourself. Condemning people is not anyone's job. We all have skeletons in our closet that if drug out for the world to see would make us cringe.

 

Infidelity surely can kill a marriage. So can verbal, emotional and physical abuse. So can neglect and resentments.

 

The list is long on the things that can be so disruptive that a marriage can call apart.

 

Since we are getting biblical. I believe lots of marriages are not God's will. Yes, it is God's will that we marry but lots of people do not take into consideration what the bible says about marriage. The importance of being equally yoked and such. People marry whomever they please no matter the state of the relationship before the vows. Not all persons are Christian. Not all people realize what is on the other side of that alter. Many marriages just happen and without God at the forefront.

 

Even without religion tied into it M is difficult. It can be very painful. It can be destructive and most definitely contain actions and lifestyle choices that are not God's will. We will all fall short of the glory of the Kingdom. We all sin.

 

I hope this isn't too far off topic I just get very into religious discussion.

[Journee]

I dithrowingsagree. It was assumed that people cheated more but could not divorce, I would say were are the stats and who participated in the surveys. What has changed is sex, pornography, prostitution, promiscuity is more prevaopenly and actually. Once sex became easier to get love/marriage is harder to find.

 

People were also more committed to their religious beliefs, the actual existence of a heaven and hell, growing together, and facing the challenges of life. We no longer look to a created being as the foundation or standard bearer for morals because morality is situational.I see it as de-volving. We at one time practiced our culinary skills at home, now we microwave....but their is hope as some are finding old fashion comfort food taste better, last longer like old fashion marriages...much better.

 

 

 

The world is moving so quickly and throwing so much at us it's a wonder that all of our heads don't spin.

 

Another angle is that all of those dustractions to M you mentioned surely did exist even in the bible days. Prostitution is the oldest profession they say. It's mentioned several times in the bible right along other sexual deviant acts that people struggled to deny even all those years ago. There is nothing new under the sun. Yes, access to those things are literally a phone call/click/text message away but the temptation has always been there.

 

I think there is a huge misconception that the generations before us didn't have to deal with the things that destroy marriages. Of course they did. Lots of marriages stayed intact because divorce just wasn't an option. Some marriages that lasted decades were most likely void of any semblance to an actual marriage. If the goal now is to just stay married then of course infidelity is going to be an issue. Along with the laundry list of items that can dismantle a relationship.

 

Even with God at the helm of a marriage. It takes both partners to be vigilant at all times. Without falter for temptation to not to cause complete chaos. Both partners to guard against addiction and other devastating lifestyle game changers. To communicate openly and have true intimacy not just have a marriage license. Even those that are successful in this regard still had their own pitfalls and pains.

 

Marriage is very difficult no matter how you slice it. It's been this way. Temptation is everywhere at all times for everyone. Not even just of the sexual variety.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Journee

[Realist3]

Most single women do this, it's called mate poaching. There are a few instances were the OW unwittingly gets involved with a mm, but most of the time the the cheaters know the status of the others involved.

 

I'm not talking about knowing the status. What I am talking about is future faking. It happens a lot .

[BHsigh]

I definitely think there is a great deal of hypocrisy involved. For example, if an OW posts something, she is the epitome of evil, but if a BW posts the exact same thing, then she is surrounded by coos and clucks of good wishes. Being a BW instantly wipes your slate clean of any wrongdoing past present or future. Amazing!

 

An example:

 

My H's XW had an A. She decided M did not suit her, that it oppressed women, and so she saw it as her right to take a lover. When her BH kicked her out, she moved in with and later M her fAP, all the while professing a distaste for monogamy and sexual fidelity, and eschewing any guilt at the way she had treated her BH.

 

After years of abuse, her second H found love elsewhere, and nurtured the new at while detaching from the vestigial M. She was incensed that he dared to "cheat" on her! After all, cheating was her prerogative, not anyone else's - and especially not if she was to be the "victim"!

 

OTOH you have a woman who has lied, cheated and abused, consistently treating others as "things" to get her own way, bullying subordinates at work, emotionally scarring her kids, harassing her aged in-laws, treating tradespeople and service staff very poorly and alienating everyone she comes into contact with. OTO, a survivor of an abusive R who transitioned out of the abusive M through an A, with an otherwise exemplary record (aside from a youthful penchant for trying to save broken women).

 

IRL, sympathy lies with him. Aside from one former colleague - herself a scorned FBW who was dumped for the OW - who remains her friend AFAIK, everyone else has chosen to sever contact with her. But here on BS Central, her own WS past is conveniently excused because of The Grand Atonement - she has been Betrayed! All the wrong she has ever committed has been washed away by the tears of betrayal, and all the future harm she will continue to commit excused as a symptom of the horror visited upon her. I guess the only way she could possibly tarnish her halo would be by signing up to become an OW.

 

Hypocrisy? yep.

 

I think that you should notice that plenty of WS's and even AP's on here get sympathy from BS's. To most, it's all a matter of them accepting that they've done wrong and to stop making excuses.

 

I can see past the affair and feel sympathy in your example, provided that the abused man or woman that ends up having an affair realizes that two wrongs don't make a right, that there were better choices, such as just leaving, that there was no good excuse to have an affair. But also, as we can see from most posts here, the WS often doesn't end up leaving the BS, instead they seek to reconcile.

 

The bottom line is for the WS and the AP to stop making bad excuses for their behavior, then they may find the sympathy that they are looking for.

 

But, some people find it hard not to make excuses for their own actions, rather than owning them.

[Furious]

I definitely think there is a great deal of hypocrisy involved. For example, if an OW posts something, she is the epitome of evil, but if a BW posts the exact same thing, then she is surrounded by coos and clucks of good wishes. Being a BW instantly wipes your slate clean of any wrongdoing past present or future. Amazing!

 

An example:

 

My H's XW had an A. She decided M did not suit her, that it oppressed women, and so she saw it as her right to take a lover. When her BH kicked her out, she moved in with and later M her fAP, all the while professing a distaste for monogamy and sexual fidelity, and eschewing any guilt at the way she had treated her BH.

 

After years of abuse, her second H found love elsewhere, and nurtured the new at while detaching from the vestigial M. She was incensed that he dared to "cheat" on her! After all, cheating was her prerogative, not anyone else's - and especially not if she was to be the "victim"!

 

OTOH you have a woman who has lied, cheated and abused, consistently treating others as "things" to get her own way, bullying subordinates at work, emotionally scarring her kids, harassing her aged in-laws, treating tradespeople and service staff very poorly and alienating everyone she comes into contact with. OTO, a survivor of an abusive R who transitioned out of the abusive M through an A, with an otherwise exemplary record (aside from a youthful penchant for trying to save broken women).

 

IRL, sympathy lies with him. Aside from one former colleague - herself a scorned FBW who was dumped for the OW - who remains her friend AFAIK, everyone else has chosen to sever contact with her. But here on BS Central, her own WS past is conveniently excused because of The Grand Atonement - she has been Betrayed! All the wrong she has ever committed has been washed away by the tears of betrayal, and all the future harm she will continue to commit excused as a symptom of the horror visited upon her. I guess the only way she could possibly tarnish her halo would be by signing up to become an OW.

 

Hypocrisy? yep.

 

 

So let me get this straight...

 

Your husband's ex wife cheated with him and they married. He eventually, cheated on her with you....and divorced her to marry you.

 

This is a case of an OW who then becomes a betrayed spouse and reacts badly to this new reality.

 

So, now you are in the same shoes as the former wife, in the sense you were the OW and now the wife.

 

And yet, you don't see the hypocrisy and irony.

 

You've done a great job in demonstrating that cheaters have a warped sense of the moral high round and the exercise of hypocrisy.

 

Thank you for your input.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Pain is the body's way of telling you something is wrong. It's not selfish on either side and a cheat who doesn't feel pain is a sociopath. You sound like you are into conscious:eek: uncoupling.

 

What I meant by pain is selfish is that the only pain one feels is their own. That is the reason that often people feel that their pain is the heaviest to carry, as they can't imagine surviving heavier.

 

I admit I had to look up conscious uncoupling. I can see definite similarities at play in how/where my view generally lays. I am into living life consciously. If more people did we would hear less often "I didn't plan this", "everything happens for a reason", "it just happened". People would take responsibility right out of the gate and not hide behind finger pointing at the other dude.

[DKT3]

So let me get this straight...

 

Your husband's ex wife cheated with him and they married. He eventually, cheated on her with you....and divorced her to marry you.

 

This is a case of an OW who then becomes a betrayed spouse and reacts badly to this new reality.

 

So, now you are in the same shoes as the former wife, in the sense you were the OW and now the wife.

 

And yet, you don't see the hypocrisy and irony.

 

You've done a great job in demonstrating that cheaters have a warped sense of the moral high round and the exercise of hypocrisy.

 

Thank you for your input.

 

I'm not clear. So her AP turned husband cheated on his ex wife with her, ex wife was also cheating. Both divorced and married AP's and now her his ex wifes AP turned husband is cheating on her?

 

Poor kids if their is kids. Wow. Talk about daytime tv turned real life.

[Journee]

If you aren't a Christian, I wouldn't apply Christian rules to your marriage, but

the only grounds for divorce for marriage is adultery and abandonment by a nonbeliever.

It speaks of forgiveness, but with forgiveness, there are consequences. The bible also states if you are yoked to an unbeliever to stay in that marriage unless he/she abandons you.

 

The bible also talks about issues like incompatibility, there were two schools of thought and Christ specifically spoke on these thing. You can be miserable, your wife a shrew, your husband a drunk, a coward, physically ill etc, but you are suppose to work out your trials.

You can even overcome infidelity....but the only reasons for divorce in the scriptures given is infidelity or abandonment by a non believer.

 

Even with all of that said. Does God want us to suffer through abuse or neglect? I don't believe so. His perfect will is for our marriages to thrive with him as the glue. It also gives sexual immortality as a reason to divorce which can be interpreted in many different ways. Not just adultery.

 

The bible also says that if you divorce and remarry you are committing adultery. If you marry a divorced person you are committing adultery. One passage speaks about lusting with one's eyes, that they have already committed adultery in their heart's.

 

There is so much outlined in the bible that everyone will fall through the cracks at some point. Everyone will go against the grain.

 

I think I'm getting too far off of the OP here. It was nice discussing the bible with you. It reminded me yet again how imperfect we all are.

[Journee]

Oh sorry,

I thought we were talking about marriages here in the US, not the entire existence western civilization. Sure the bible talks about all sorts of deviant sexual acts, but to say that marriages before the eighties were just miserable or that people had free access to porn isn't supported.

In societies were free sex is not practiced women are more valued. In cultures where women are encouraged to engage in promiscuity, women are less valued...People in this country before no fault divorces and free sex died for the right to married and had long fulfilling marriages. That old adage people stayed together is just a line of bull we tell ourselves.

 

Marriage is challenging, but so is life. Life can be a bit*c, but I don't go and kill myself, I work to change it. Sure God first and if you practice your beliefs the stats prove it works. I would never encourage any woman in particular to settle for less from a man. If he is worth you giving your most possesion to-your body- and your time don't settle...get your paper.

 

As much as people try and discredit marriage, people are still fighting for that little piece of paper, people still choose or want marriage to have their families, people are still shocked by adultery....And that doesn't change regardless of your religious beliefs....even arranged marriages have legs.

 

I encourage everyone not to settle, you are worth more than that.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think I ever mentioned the eighties or free access to porn but I'll bite.

 

Why would the bible mention any other sexual immorality other than adultery if it never existed? Would not be an issue and people would not need guidance about it? All kinds of sex acts are talked about in the bible. Even entire cities burned to the ground because of all the sex and partying going on.

 

There have been ways for people to act out sexually throughout time. It has always been an issue regardless of whether one believes it or not.

 

How could anyone possibly know if a marriage from years past was fulfilling or not? Let alone all marriages. That's a bit of a stretch also with nothing to support the idea. Just because someone stays married doesn't mean their marriage was healthy or fulfilling. The act of staying married proves nothing.

 

I am a Christian. One that sins and struggles right along side the rest of the world. It is human to err and stumble.

 

Chasing a piece of paper is one of the reasons marriages are falling apart left and right. No one is prepared for what life can sometimes throw us. Add to that a partnership that wasn't ready to become a marriage and there is your perfect storm. That's not what it is about, getting a piece of paper.

 

I have never discredited marriage. I discredit those who try to speak on behalf of all marriages ever. It's impossible to do so.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Journee

[cocorico]

So let me get this straight...

 

Your husband's ex wife cheated with him and they married. He eventually, cheated on her with you....and divorced her to marry you.

 

This is a case of an OW who then becomes a betrayed spouse and reacts badly to this new reality.

 

So, now you are in the same shoes as the former wife, in the sense you were the OW and now the wife.

 

 

Incorrect.

 

She was never an OW AFAIK. (She may well have had As as a MOW during her second M - that has been suggested here before as an explanation as to why she had so little investment in the M, but I have no evidence of this so it is mere speculation at this point).

 

She was a WS. She was M to her first H, cheated on him with her AP. When her first H kicked her out, she moved in with her AP and later he became her second H.

 

I have never been a WS. Lying or dishonesty in Rs simply doesn't work for me. I can't manipulate or play games, I'm very WYSIWYG. If I want sex with someone else I will say so.

 

So she and I are polar opposites; all we have in common is having married the same man.

 

 

I'm not clear. So her AP turned husband cheated on his ex wife with her, ex wife was also cheating. Both divorced and married AP's and now her his ex wifes AP turned husband is cheating on her?

 

Incorrect.

 

Let's call her Lettie. Lettie cheats on John with Andy. John kicks out Lettie. Lettie moves in with Andy. Andy and Lettie later marry.

 

Lettie is mean to Andy. Andy falls in love with Susie. Susie and Andy start a relationship. Andy leaves Lettie and marries Susie.

 

Lettie thinks cheating is just dandy. After all, John deserved it, because he is a man. But, oh no - how hateful! Andy cheated on her! hateful Andy! cheating is wrong if it is done to Lettie! Only Lettie is allowed to cheat!

 

Hope that clarifies.

[DKT3]

Incorrect.

 

She was never an OW AFAIK. (She may well have had As as a MOW during her second M - that has been suggested here before as an explanation as to why she had so little investment in the M, but I have no evidence of this so it is mere speculation at this point).

 

She was a WS. She was M to her first H, cheated on him with her AP. When her first H kicked her out, she moved in with her AP and later he became her second H.

 

I have never been a WS. Lying or dishonesty in Rs simply doesn't work for me. I can't manipulate or play games, I'm very WYSIWYG. If I want sex with someone else I will say so.

 

So she and I are polar opposites; all we have in common is having married the same man.

 

 

 

 

Incorrect.

 

Let's call her Lettie. Lettie cheats on John with Andy. John kicks out Lettie. Lettie moves in with Andy. Andy and Lettie later marry.

 

Lettie is mean to Andy. Andy falls in love with Susie. Susie and Andy start a relationship. Andy leaves Lettie and marries Susie.

 

Lettie thinks cheating is just dandy. After all, John deserved it, because he is a man. But, oh no - how hateful! Andy cheated on her! hateful Andy! cheating is wrong if it is done to Lettie! Only Lettie is allowed to cheat!

 

Hope that clarifies.

but you were John's OW, no?

[Furious]

but you were John's OW, no?

 

 

She was Andy's OW.

 

Andy was Lettie's OM.

[janedoe67]

I have never been a WS. Lying or dishonesty in Rs simply doesn't work for me. I can't manipulate or play games, I'm very WYSIWYG. If I want sex with someone else I will say so.

 

Ahhh...so the 2 of you were open and honest with the BW and she knew about your relationship all along?

[Journee]

It says if you divorce a person for any reason outside of adultery and that person remarries then they have committed adultery. It specifically says that individuals who divorthrough ce because of adultery are free to marry.

 

Is that all you took from my post?

 

My point was that if you are going to bring biblical arguments into the thread then let's talk about them all. That many people have biblically committed adultery without even being aware it seems. Whether through lusting in their minds or with their bodies. By remarrying under certain circumstances.

 

The bible to some is the epitome of what the guidelines for morality are based in. For others not the case.

 

There are many different ways to commit adultery biblically. I'm just highlighting the one's that don't necessarily have much to do with secret hotel meetings which is usually the scenario we see here.