When did preferences become judgments?

[atlg8r]

Why the attempt to sell me on the idea that it's not an indicator of future behavior? Men have the stories of the woman that slept round got in a relationship and cheated. I mean you can sell these men( notice it doesn't include me) on studies or whatever you can think of but it doesn't take away from those stories. My other thing is if you are one to hide something what else are you willing to hide. I mean you all say the past is the past. How would I know if you have a history of cheating if the past is the past? or even that you had worked in the sex industry? Men have no indicators. Anybody can play the role and be whatever you need to be to get what you desire. Let's be honest here even if a woman cheated OM follow orders better than a OW so a faithful man would never know. It's not like any of you women would be honest about cheating why because the past is the past and you live in terror of being judged for past actions. Actions have consequences and if you are going to judge then you have to be judged too. I have a past and not ashamed to admit it or will make great campaign monologues to sell that my past shouldn't be considered. Hell I want to know if you accept me. If you can't accept me then you are not worthy to be in my life. I love me and am not willing to accept anything just for the sake of being in a relationship. It's sad how you LS women are. :(:(

 

I'm not judging you for your past. I'm saying you shouldn't judge others based on ONE NUMBER. Talk about the past, sure; you don't have any reason to require a specific number though.

[Flora94]

If you are also a virgin, I think it's reasonable to expect the same in your partner. My issue is mostly men who've slept with God knows how many women who expect a woman to have only been with one or two people in their life. Good for you for waiting, by the way. I sort of wish I had.

Thank you and yes those guys get me irritated as hell. I send one of them to hell and even told him in his face ''You really think I'm going to be saving myself for you''. He was surprised to hear that I wanted a virgin man on my wedding and not him who told me about sleeping with about 18 girls.

LOL at the ''No girls care about a man's sexual past''.

[Flora94]

Men have no indicators. Anybody can play the role and be whatever you need to be to get what you desire.

I want the experience of learning it (both of us) together at the very same time. That's my desire and no, not any man can give me that esp one that's not a virgin.

[joystickd]

I'm not judging you for your past. I'm saying you shouldn't judge others based on ONE NUMBER. Talk about the past, sure; you don't have any reason to require a specific number though.

They way a lot of you talk you don't want to talk about that past. Not everyone is asking for a number if you really were promiscuous just say you were but I get the feeling none of you are willing to admit that. I have had women that admitted that and it was cool. You all can talk about cheating but none of you would be brave enough to admit that. Let's be honest here. You all prefer to be selectively honest. You want to pick and choose what parts of you that the guy should get to know. How would you feel if you had a life changing surgery and they selectively left out the potential hazards? I know you women will say that is different but contextually it's not. Relationship are life changing events and one must know the whole person not parts to make an accurate decision on whether they should be with you or whether the relationship should go to the next level.

[atlg8r]

They way a lot of you talk you don't want to talk about that past. Not everyone is asking for a number if you really were promiscuous just say you were but I get the feeling none of you are willing to admit that. I have had women that admitted that and it was cool. You all can talk about cheating but none of you would be brave enough to admit that. Let's be honest here. You all prefer to be selectively honest. You want to pick and choose what parts of you that the guy should get to know. How would you feel if you had a life changing surgery and they selectively left out the potential hazards? I know you women will say that is different but contextually it's not. Relationship are life changing events and one must know the whole person not parts to make an accurate decision on whether they should be with you or whether the relationship should go to the next level.

 

I've never cheated and make no secret that I don't tolerate cheating. I've discussed at length some of my "poor decision making" as a teenager and 20-something with my fiance, both sexual decisions like when I lost my virginity to other things, such as skipping class or getting in other trouble. Those things SHOULD come up in routine conversation. But asking "How many people have you slept with?" is not a necessary question and you can discover all you need to know about someone and his/her past by conversing naturally throughout the getting-to-know-you process. And if you can't, you're doing it wrong or jumping into relationships too quickly.

[joystickd]

I've never cheated and make no secret that I don't tolerate cheating. I've discussed at length some of my "poor decision making" as a teenager and 20-something with my fiance, both sexual decisions like when I lost my virginity to other things, such as skipping class or getting in other trouble. Those things SHOULD come up in routine conversation. But asking "How many people have you slept with?" is not a necessary question and you can discover all you need to know about someone and his/her past by conversing naturally throughout the getting-to-know-you process. And if you can't, you're doing it wrong or jumping into relationships too quickly.

You can't say though its not a necessary question each person values different things. There are a lot of thing you look for that someone may say is not necessary. You are not the high authority on what should and shouldn't come up. I still view you LS women as questionable because of the past is the past talk. It indicates shadiness

[ASG]

Why the attempt to sell me on the idea that it's not an indicator of future behavior? Men have the stories of the woman that slept round got in a relationship and cheated. I mean you can sell these men( notice it doesn't include me) on studies or whatever you can think of but it doesn't take away from those stories. My other thing is if you are one to hide something what else are you willing to hide. I mean you all say the past is the past. How would I know if you have a history of cheating if the past is the past? or even that you had worked in the sex industry? Men have no indicators. Anybody can play the role and be whatever you need to be to get what you desire. Let's be honest here even if a woman cheated OM follow orders better than a OW so a faithful man would never know. It's not like any of you women would be honest about cheating why because the past is the past and you live in terror of being judged for past actions. Actions have consequences and if you are going to judge then you have to be judged too. I have a past and not ashamed to admit it or will make great campaign monologues to sell that my past shouldn't be considered. Hell I want to know if you accept me. If you can't accept me then you are not worthy to be in my life. I love me and am not willing to accept anything just for the sake of being in a relationship. It's sad how you LS women are. :(:(

 

But I agree that there needs to be honesty. Just don't agree that that honesty need to require a specific number.

I do not and will not hide the fact that I have had casual sex. ONS and FWB both. I think every guy I was ever involved with knows that and some of them were serious relationships. But they still never asked me my actual number.

 

I do not hide who I am. Why would I? I'm not ashamed. I also am not willing to accept anything just to be in a relationship. Which is why I am single. I will not get into one just for the sake of it.

 

If some guy who is sleeping around as well doesn't want to date me because I also sleep around, then I have no problem calling him a hypocrite to his face and quite honestly, will want nothing to do with him.

 

I have never cheated and when in a relationship I have absolutely no desire to be with anyone else. To be honest, I've had enough flavour in my life so far, I don't really need to experience more.

 

What I don't appreciate though is people saying that I wouldn't be good relationship material because of my past, when my past has no cheating and no drama, only plenty of casual sex OUTSIDE OF RELATIONSHIPS.

[atlg8r]

You can't say though its not a necessary question each person values different things. There are a lot of thing you look for that someone may say is not necessary. You are not the high authority on what should and shouldn't come up. I still view you LS women as questionable because of the past is the past talk. It indicates shadiness

 

I didn't say the past is the past, and you still haven't provided a valid reason why a specific number is relevant if you are discussing one's life history.

[joystickd]

I didn't say the past is the past, and you still haven't provided a valid reason why a specific number is relevant if you are discussing one's life history.

You have to ask guys that ask that question. Logic and dating/attraction are not a good mix. Look at nice guys for a prime example lol. It's more about how they feel about it. You can't help how you feel. It's not insecurity but guys sometimes can be dicks especially when it comes to women. Take my story about the woman that was a prostitute I dated

Edited April 16, 2014 by joystickd

[ASG]

You have to ask guys that ask that question.

 

You are making it sound like YOU ask that question...

[joystickd]

You are making it sound like YOU ask that question...

You all just need a common enemy to have some solidarity and to vent your frustration about some man asking the number. Like I said before look at my post history I'm not a numbers guy. Emotions in discussions like this cloud the proper judgement and logic causing one to avoid detail like that, but that's women for you lol

[joystickd]

Funny but true. It's a funny way of saying that I was talking about

[GoreSP]

You can't say though its not a necessary question each person values different things. There are a lot of thing you look for that someone may say is not necessary. You are not the high authority on what should and shouldn't come up. I still view you LS women as questionable because of the past is the past talk. It indicates shadiness

 

Neither are you, sweatheart

[joystickd]

Neither are you, sweatheart

You all are the ones that said you shouldn't talk about number. I just said be honest big difference honey. I didn't make a big fuss about it like you all did. Notice it takes a bunch of you women to go up against me about some subject which I don't have an issue with. It says a lot

Edited April 16, 2014 by joystickd

[ThaWholigan]

You all just need a common enemy to have some solidarity and to vent your frustration about some man asking the number. Like I said before look at my post history I'm not a numbers guy. Emotions in discussions like this cloud the proper judgement and logic causing one to avoid detail like that, but that's women for you lol

 

That's the thing about you Joystick. You do it on purpose - you place yourself in the position to be the common enemy very often - particularly where this argument is concerned. You obviously anticipate the more emotional or otherwise oppositional reaction you are going to get, otherwise you wouldn't bother.

 

That's antagonists for you!

 

(not a slight, I like playing devil's advocate every now and then myself )

[atlg8r]

You all are the ones that said you shouldn't talk about number. I just said be honest big difference honey. I didn't make a big fuss about it like you all did. Notice it takes a bunch of you women to go up against me about some subject which I don't have an issue with. It says a lot

 

If you don't care, why do you keep arguing for it? I've never been asked how many people I've slept with. Lucky for me I didn't date any guys THAT immature.

[GoreSP]

You all are the ones that said you shouldn't talk about number. I just said be honest big difference honey. I didn't make a big fuss about it like you all did. Notice it takes a bunch of you women to go up against me about some subject which I don't have an issue with. It says a lot

 

 

 

It also says a lot that you've been arguing with us for the last 12 pages....

[joystickd]

If you don't care, why do you keep arguing for it? I've never been asked how many people I've slept with. Lucky for me I didn't date any guys THAT immature.

 

Boredom lol. Its fun to rile women like you up. You all posted more than i did lol. I also am for men. Im not letting a group of women talk sh#t about men.

[Quiet Storm]

I just accept that there are hypocrites, racists, liars, cheaters and judgmental people that share this world with us. That's our reality. I overcome that unfortunate reality by surrounding myself & my family with positive people that aren't like that.

 

Saying things like "You're a hypocrite!" or "You're a racist!" like it's some big insult doesn't help, IMO. People are perfectly OK with being hypocrites or racists because they feel it is justified. They all have their own reasons, which are usually based in emotion & not in logic.

 

Trust me, I have been there and done that "trying to change people thing" decades ago when I married my black husband. I ended up causing myself stress & worry, when those people didn't give a crap about why I thought their judgments were wrong. So I just learned to accept it, and kept my distance. That's what's happening here, I think. A lot of us have this idea that all people are striving to be fair, and honest, and open minded, and forgiving. In my experience, this is just not true! There are lots of people that are perfectly A-OK with being judgmental. If their judgmental attitude has not caused them any problems, why would they change? They think they are protecting themselves from black people and slutty women... in their minds, their judgment is self preservation. And if people think it's unfair, well they can just get over it.

 

For me, I just live my life to the fullest with my black husband & mixed kids. If racist people want to take note and say "Look! A black guy that was married when he had kids! And he has a house! And a job! And isn't on welfare!" then great. I'm happy for them that they evolved. But I was done wasting my breath and brain space on them a long, long time ago.

 

I know I am jaded, but in my experience, people are not just going to change because you tell them to or because they read stats on the internet. They need to see it for themselves.

 

If this "slut shaming" is going to change, it will be because there are men out there who WILL marry promiscuous women, women who end up being faithful, loyal & sexually content wives. Their friends, brothers, sons, coworkers will hopefully notice and open up their minds a little.

[ThaWholigan]

I just accept that there are hypocrites, racists, liars, cheaters and judgmental people that share this world with us. That's our reality. I overcome that unfortunate reality by surrounding myself & my family with positive people that aren't like that.

 

Saying things like "You're a hypocrite!" or "You're a racist!" like it's some big insult doesn't help, IMO. People are perfectly OK with being hypocrites or racists because they feel it is justified. They all have their own reasons, which are usually based in emotion & not in logic.

 

Trust me, I have been there and done that "trying to change people thing" decades ago when I married my black husband. I ended up causing myself stress & worry, when those people didn't give a crap about why I thought their judgments were wrong. So I just learned to accept it, and kept my distance. That's what's happening here, I think. A lot of us have this idea that all people are striving to be fair, and honest, and open minded, and forgiving. In my experience, this is just not true! There are lots of people that are perfectly A-OK with being judgmental. If their judgmental attitude has not caused them any problems, why would they change? They think they are protecting themselves from black people and slutty women... in their minds, their judgment is self preservation. And if people think it's unfair, well they can just get over it.

 

For me, I just live my life to the fullest with my black husband & mixed kids. If racist people want to take note and say "Look! A black guy that was married when he had kids! And he has a house! And a job! And isn't on welfare!" then great. I'm happy for them that they evolved. But I was done wasting my breath and brain space on them a long, long time ago.

 

I know I am jaded, but in my experience, people are not just going to change because you tell them to or because they read stats on the internet. They need to see it for themselves.

 

If this "slut shaming" is going to change, it will be because there are men out there who WILL marry promiscuous women, women who end up being faithful, loyal & sexually content wives. Their friends, brothers, sons, coworkers will hopefully notice and open up their minds a little.

I am the same - have become far more accepting that people will try to project their bullsh*t onto me, and that's just the way it is . It doesn't bother me too much anymore. I do try to defend those I feel are especially sensitive in some way to such actions. Hell that causes another particular judgement towards me!

 

Acceptance is a wonderful thing.

[joystickd]

I just accept that there are hypocrites, racists, liars, cheaters and judgmental people that share this world with us. That's our reality. I overcome that unfortunate reality by surrounding myself & my family with positive people that aren't like that.

 

Saying things like "You're a hypocrite!" or "You're a racist!" like it's some big insult doesn't help, IMO. People are perfectly OK with being hypocrites or racists because they feel it is justified. They all have their own reasons, which are usually based in emotion & not in logic.

 

Trust me, I have been there and done that "trying to change people thing" decades ago when I married my black husband. I ended up causing myself stress & worry, when those people didn't give a crap about why I thought their judgments were wrong. So I just learned to accept it, and kept my distance. That's what's happening here, I think. A lot of us have this idea that all people are striving to be fair, and honest, and open minded, and forgiving. In my experience, this is just not true! There are lots of people that are perfectly A-OK with being judgmental. If their judgmental attitude has not caused them any problems, why would they change? They think they are protecting themselves from black people and slutty women... in their minds, their judgment is self preservation. And if people think it's unfair, well they can just get over it.

 

For me, I just live my life to the fullest with my black husband & mixed kids. If racist people want to take note and say "Look! A black guy that was married when he had kids! And he has a house! And a job! And isn't on welfare!" then great. I'm happy for them that they evolved. But I was done wasting my breath and brain space on them a long, long time ago.

 

I know I am jaded, but in my experience, people are not just going to change because you tell them to or because they read stats on the internet. They need to see it for themselves.

 

If this "slut shaming" is going to change, it will be because there are men out there who WILL marry promiscuous women, women who end up being faithful, loyal & sexually content wives. Their friends, brothers, sons, coworkers will hopefully notice and open up their minds a little.

 

Some of you women need to take her advice and quit giving monologues to guys on here. You wouldnt waste this much energy on this in real life. All of us judge you all whine about it because of the chance you are on the receiving end

[ASG]

I just accept that there are hypocrites, racists, liars, cheaters and judgmental people that share this world with us. That's our reality. I overcome that unfortunate reality by surrounding myself & my family with positive people that aren't like that.

 

Saying things like "You're a hypocrite!" or "You're a racist!" like it's some big insult doesn't help, IMO. People are perfectly OK with being hypocrites or racists because they feel it is justified. They all have their own reasons, which are usually based in emotion & not in logic.

 

Trust me, I have been there and done that "trying to change people thing" decades ago when I married my black husband. I ended up causing myself stress & worry, when those people didn't give a crap about why I thought their judgments were wrong. So I just learned to accept it, and kept my distance. That's what's happening here, I think. A lot of us have this idea that all people are striving to be fair, and honest, and open minded, and forgiving. In my experience, this is just not true! There are lots of people that are perfectly A-OK with being judgmental. If their judgmental attitude has not caused them any problems, why would they change? They think they are protecting themselves from black people and slutty women... in their minds, their judgment is self preservation. And if people think it's unfair, well they can just get over it.

 

For me, I just live my life to the fullest with my black husband & mixed kids. If racist people want to take note and say "Look! A black guy that was married when he had kids! And he has a house! And a job! And isn't on welfare!" then great. I'm happy for them that they evolved. But I was done wasting my breath and brain space on them a long, long time ago.

 

I know I am jaded, but in my experience, people are not just going to change because you tell them to or because they read stats on the internet. They need to see it for themselves.

 

If this "slut shaming" is going to change, it will be because there are men out there who WILL marry promiscuous women, women who end up being faithful, loyal & sexually content wives. Their friends, brothers, sons, coworkers will hopefully notice and open up their minds a little.

 

 

I mostly agree with you. Some people just are what they are. But the actual title of the thread is "when did preferences become judgements?". And the point some of us were trying to make was NOT that people don't judge, but that "I won't date her cause she's a slut" is a judgement, not a preference.

 

They are different things. Ultimately, they may lead to the same end result, which is not dating said person.

 

That is all I was arguing here. And sure, yes, I think being judgemental is wrong and I try my best to not do it in my every day life. Again, if I want people to not be judgemental, I need to at least try and lead by example, right?

[dragon_fly_7]

Well summarize Quiet Storm, it's beginning to be a waste of time trying to get those closed-minded people (racists, slut-shaming hypocrites, extremists, school and work bullies, etc) to act fair and become open-minded. If talking to them in real life wouldn't work out, I can imagine trying to even negotiate with them on an online forum. They remind me of fanatics that believe their own perceptions or lies even if it were a total illusion. Actually it's also like trying to negotiate with a terrorist and get him to suddenly change his mind that he's getting rid of demons (in his distorted reality).

 

In your case, even if a racist family member were to accept your husband, I'm willing to bet he/she still has that racist mentality towards other black people and is only being tolerant out of respect for you. This mean that family member will always have that negative concept for your husband on the inside.

Edited April 16, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[ASG]

You and some of the others got emotional and off your game. I clearly stated im not one for numbers but you kept insisting i was when i posted it several times being passionate clouds you and several others LMAO

 

Off my game? I think I've made some pretty compelling arguments here! Emotional and passionate I'll own up to! I am! Never claimed I didn't care, so I'm not sure why you think that's a bad thing. Does not cloud my thoughts at all.

 

As for you mentioning that you weren't a numbers guy... I only remember reading it once, at some point. And since you were playing devil's advocate, then you should be able to defend that point, no? In my world, that's how it works!

 

But don't think for a second I'm not thoroughly enjoying myself here! I am! I like arguing!! (within reason and boundaries and I think we've kept them all).

[joystickd]

Off my game? I think I've made some pretty compelling arguments here! Emotional and passionate I'll own up to! I am! Never claimed I didn't care, so I'm not sure why you think that's a bad thing. Does not cloud my thoughts at all.

 

As for you mentioning that you weren't a numbers guy... I only remember reading it once, at some point. And since you were playing devil's advocate, then you should be able to defend that point, no? In my world, that's how it works!

 

But don't think for a second I'm not thoroughly enjoying myself here! I am! I like arguing!! (within reason and boundaries and I think we've kept them all).

Look back I said it more than once. See off your game. You gotta stay sharp. Some of these women hate me on here and i like it lol. I remember arguing on the porn thread. Bringing up those past posts of a certain person lol