Borderline Personality Ex

[Downtown]

You are older and do not have any idea what it is like dating women our age.

More to the point, Fours, is that I don't have any idea what it is like dating Cali's exGF. I've never even met the young lady. That's why the sentence of mine that you quote above begins with "If Cali's Ex has strong BPD traits as he believes...."

 

As issue, then, is not whether I believe his Ex has strong BPD traits. Rather, at issue is whether Cali and his therapist are correct about her exhibiting strong BPD traits. As Calif said last February, his therapist was "...the one who turned me to this Borderline description" [see post #52 above].

 

In High School a large majority of women who are going through pubirty/adolecence and would check most of those boxes. Now in college they are immature, entitled, self absorb who also check off most of the boxes.... All these girls cannot have BPD and I do not see how anyone could possibly know till they are older.

Fours, you make a valid point. Because BPD is a spectrum disorder, we all exhibit the nine traits to some degree. During our childhood we all behave like BPDers 24/7 and, when the hormones surge at puberty, many (if not most) of us start exhibiting strong BPD traits again for several years. This is why psychologists routinely wait until a person is 18 before attempting to diagnose BPD. So, if Cali's Ex actually does have BPD, she is sufficiently old -- at 22 -- to be diagnosed.

 

The discussion in this thread, however, has nothing to do with diagnosis because none of us is qualified to do it. That is, we cannot determine whether the Ex's BPD traits are so strong and persistent as to satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD. Indeed, even Cali's therapist is unable to render a diagnosis because he's never seen or treated the Ex.

 

Instead, Cali's discussion in this thread has focused on the many BPD warning signs he believes he has seen in her behavior. At issue, as I said above, is whether Cali can spot unusually strong occurrences of BPD red flags like temper tantrums, strong verbal abuse, irrational jealousy, and rapid flips between Jekyll and Hyde. I believe he can if he takes time to learn what warning signs to look for.

 

Indeed, I believe that, before Cali graduated high school, he already could identify the very selfish and grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. He could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. He could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And he could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, he should be able to spot unusually strong BPD traits whenever they occur.

[tlegend]

1. Impulsive and risky behavior, such as risky driving, unsafe sex, gambling sprees or illegal drug use

2. Awareness of destructive behavior, including self-injury, but sometimes feeling unable to change it

3. Wide mood swings

4. Short but intense episodes of anxiety or depression

5. Inappropriate anger and antagonistic behavior, sometimes escalating into physical fights

6. Difficulty controlling emotions or impulses

7. Suicidal behavior

8. Feeling misunderstood, neglected, alone, empty or hopeless

9. Fear of being alone

10. Feelings of self-hate and self-loathing

 

I should probably see a therapist.....I feel as if you just described me sometimes, although I can usually put on a pretty big front.

 

That scares me...

[KaliLove]

I should probably see a therapist.....I feel as if you just described me sometimes, although I can usually put on a pretty big front.

 

That scares me...

 

TL, everyone embodies those characteristics sometimes...it's human nature. They're called personality disorders because those are all personality traits. People who truly are BPD are like this all the time and are unable to control themselves. They're also typically completely un-self-aware (ha, just made up a new word).

 

But if you feel like that describes you then absolutely, seeing a therapist would be a great idea. Try to find one who specializes in personality disorders if you can.

[Haydn]

Downtown, has not pushed anything down our throats so to speak.

 

BPD is not something to be brushed off as someone being young and the perils of youth. I am 32 and was in a RS for 3 years with a woman who displayed all the traits. I did not have a RS with anyone like her before. It was more that a rollercoster. The 6 cycles of break up happened....I could bang on about this forever but i won`t.

 

 

 

You are older and do not have any idea what it is like dating women our age. I saw this in a previous post about traits of someone with BPD.

 

1. Impulsive and risky behavior, such as risky driving, unsafe sex, gambling sprees or illegal drug use

2. Awareness of destructive behavior, including self-injury, but sometimes feeling unable to change it

3. Wide mood swings

4. Short but intense episodes of anxiety or depression

5. Inappropriate anger and antagonistic behavior, sometimes escalating into physical fights

6. Difficulty controlling emotions or impulses

7. Suicidal behavior

8. Feeling misunderstood, neglected, alone, empty or hopeless

9. Fear of being alone

10. Feelings of self-hate and self-loathing

 

Take it from a guy who is that young. In High School a large majority of women who are going through pubirty / adolecence and would check most of those boxes. Now in college they are immature, entitled, self absorb who also check off most of the boxes.

 

Dating women at our age sucks and they always screw you over and break your heart. They usually pass on us for the jerks and players who treat them like crap. If we do date one and have a relationship for a long time the girls are all over the place, they like to argue and fight, hot and cold, sweet then mean, break up with you and want you back the next day, cuss you out and call you names, blow you off for friends or a party, you can't even have a rational conversation or have a disagreement without them being cruel, lie, cheat, hanging up on you, trying to make you jealous, punishing you or going all out crazy. We all get played, lied too, cheated on and dumped for some a-hole who treats them crap.

 

All these girls cannot have BPD and I do not see how anyone could possibly know till they are older. I think it's their emotions, immaturity, entitlement, lots of distractions with friends, guys, parties, work, school, social media, bad influences, peer presure, drinking and lots of attention of from guys, players and jerks. Good guys get treated worse than the dog crap you scrape of the bottom of your shoe.

[tlegend]

TL, everyone embodies those characteristics sometimes...it's human nature. They're called personality disorders because those are all personality traits. People who truly are BPD are like this all the time and are unable to control themselves. They're also typically completely un-self-aware (ha, just made up a new word).

 

But if you feel like that describes you then absolutely, seeing a therapist would be a great idea. Try to find one who specializes in personality disorders if you can.

 

This actually makes me feel a whole lot better. Thank you!

[Caliguy30]

Like I've said before, I've had normal breakups, but this has been extremely difficult. It's getting better though. I am definitely a routine person so I've been mixing things up.

[silvereyez]

I was in a relationship with a borderline female for 4 and a half years. And yes, it turned out the same way it does with all borderlines relationships.

It is hands down the most painful thing I have ever gone through. I am still going through it to some extent.

The way these people breakup relationships is utterly devastating on many levels, even if you know there is no hope, and you now what is going to happening, you just arent prepared for the level of toxicity, disfunction and soul shattering hurt these people can do you you, without an incling of guilt or empathy. After loving you so hard and all the marriage proprosals and everything. They switch off like a lightbulb, because fundamentally the love they are giving you isn't real love, it is projection feeding a void within themselves. It is all about them and it is a narcissistic personality disorder.

My advice to you and I severely suggest you take it for your own sanity:

Turn around, do not walk, but run away from this.

Give yourself time to heal, seek a therapist if you are struggling

Go completely no contact, and never, ever look back. You cannot fix her. You were used by her and she will keep you attached incase she runs out of 'supply'.

Delete everything, throw away everything and I hope you didn't invest too much into this person or make any sacrifices for them.

When she realises you are gone, she will try to contact you to draw you back in, be prepared, be strong, do not reply to anything.

The intense love you felt for this woman, was not recipricated, it was borne of a lie, her lie.

Run.

[flitzanu]

I'm not really speaking for him, but I can say that I've been on here awhile, and from what I can see, it seems like EVERYTHING needs to be explained with a disease. "Oh, she MUST have BPD" Or "Oh GIGS THATS the reason" or "She left me because of _______"

 

When maybe, they just left because they felt like it.

 

Everyone wants a concrete reason why and will spend numerous amounts of time trying to justify WHY they were left when, to me, whats the point? Does it really matter? I get what fitz is saying and it makes total sense.

 

thank you, CHB. it's possible somewhere in the semantics and words that nothing i'm asking makes sense to others, i'm glad it at least does with one of you.

[flitzanu]

This is why BPD and the other PDs are said to be "spectrum disorders," which means we all exhibit these traits to some degree.

 

Importantly, this move to a dimensional measurement of BPD will make it obvious that BPD applies to ALL of us...

 

 

just so i'm not misunderstanding you, since obviously we have been, you're saying that Psychology is thus moving to suggest that everyone is a varying degree of BPD based on moving to a dimensional measurement, since there is no fine line between "you are BPD" and "you are not BPD" but that now, "everyone is BPD".

 

am i misinterpreting what you're saying?

[KaliLove]

just so i'm not misunderstanding you, since obviously we have been, you're saying that Psychology is thus moving to suggest that everyone is a varying degree of BPD based on moving to a dimensional measurement, since there is no fine line between "you are BPD" and "you are not BPD" but that now, "everyone is BPD".

 

am i misinterpreting what you're saying?

 

Not trying to speak for Downtown..but as I said above, BPD is a PERSONALITY disorder. The 'symptoms' are all exaggerated personality traits. True BPDers exhibit these 'symptoms' more strongly and more often than non BPDers, and they are often unable to reign in the BPD behavior.

 

So yes, we all do exhibit 'symptoms' of BPD at times..absolutely..and personality disorders operate on a spectrum..so it is possible to have mild BPD or severe BPD.

[flitzanu]

Ok, but even if it's not true, if it makes someone feel better to think that their ex has a mental issue rather than just not wanting to be with them..if that boosts their confidence after a break up..then why not let them think that instead of putting them down for it and making them feel worse?

 

.

 

Kali, you're not wrong here. and if the OP believes that his ex has BPD and that genuinely makes him feel better and boosts his confidence, then OP, i'm totally sorry and you should absolutely believe your ex is BPD if it makes you heal. i stated before, i went through the same thought process because that's what everyone posted on here 3 years ago too, so i looked into it and from the list of symptoms deduced my ex must be BPD. hell, i even questioned advising her to consider getting checked out so it doesn't continue affecting her life.

 

i soon realized that none of it was helping ME heal, because instead of thinking "hey this girl doesn't want to be with me anymore" i was trying to pin her with having a mental disorder for why she left me. it started making ME sound like the crazy one for needing a medical reason for a girl dumping me instead of her just not wanting to be with me anymore (after a long relationship and discussion of marriage, all that nonsense, blah blah). i mean, how can someone walk away from 2+ years like it meant nothing? how could they turn on me so quickly like i never mattered and be banging new dudes days later? something had to be wrong with her, i thought.

[KaliLove]

Kali, you're not wrong here. and if the OP believes that his ex has BPD and that genuinely makes him feel better and boosts his confidence, then OP, i'm totally sorry and you should absolutely believe your ex is BPD if it makes you heal. i stated before, i went through the same thought process because that's what everyone posted on here 3 years ago too, so i looked into it and from the list of symptoms deduced my ex must be BPD. hell, i even questioned advising her to consider getting checked out so it doesn't continue affecting her life.

 

i soon realized that none of it was helping ME heal, because instead of thinking "hey this girl doesn't want to be with me anymore" i was trying to pin her with having a mental disorder for why she left me. it started making ME sound like the crazy one for needing a medical reason for a girl dumping me instead of her just not wanting to be with me anymore (after a long relationship and discussion of marriage, all that nonsense, blah blah). i mean, how can someone walk away from 2+ years like it meant nothing? how could they turn on me so quickly like i never mattered and be banging new dudes days later? something had to be wrong with her, i thought.

 

Maybe something was wrong with her and maybe it wasn't..but it sure does feel better thinking something is wrong with them than thinking something is wrong with you. Getting dumped is a strain on the ego. That's not to say that a dumpee should not work on themselves. The big question is, if you think your ex has a mental disorder..why the eff would you stay with them, miss them, or want them back? That is DEFINITELY something to work on. That's why I'm in therapy.

 

From speaking to the OP in this thread and outside of it, I do believe his ex actually has BPD..and I already know my ex has it (confirmed by multiple therapists, though he refuses to acknowledge it and instead chooses to take a daily cocktail of 6 different anti depressants and anti anxiety drugs, proscribed by 3 different doctors, and which he regulates the dosages of himself).

[flitzanu]

Maybe something was wrong with her and maybe it wasn't..but it sure does feel better thinking something is wrong with them than thinking something is wrong with you. Getting dumped is a strain on the ego.

 

and now maybe you'll understand my original question. why is it that we must assume something is wrong with them, or something is wrong with us? why can't we just understand that it wasn't working, and that sometimes people just don't fit as a couple and nothing has to be wrong?

 

obviously that's utopian and unrealistic that anyone could be so logical about it, but isn't that just a more likely scenario (Ockham's razor?) than someone having a disorder? again...hypothetical question, not judgement against anyone wanting to believe someone is BPD or not.

[KaliLove]

and now maybe you'll understand my original question. why is it that we must assume something is wrong with them, or something is wrong with us? why can't we just understand that it wasn't working, and that sometimes people just don't fit as a couple and nothing has to be wrong?

 

obviously that's utopian and unrealistic that anyone could be so logical about it, but isn't that just a more likely scenario (Ockham's razor?) than someone having a disorder? again...hypothetical question, not judgement against anyone wanting to believe someone is BPD or not.

 

I understood your original question. Plenty of people do just understand that sometimes things just don't work out right away. Some people take more time. Some people need to find reasons. Everyone is different and everyone handles things in different ways. What I'm saying is that I don't see the harm in letting people whose self-esteem is already at its lowest believe that their ex has a mental disorder rather than believing that there was something wrong with them and that they are unlovable (which is how I felt before my ex was diagnosed).

 

And again..people who think that way (like me) absolutely need to get help. I am. My therapist is awesome.

[BC1980]

I understood your original question. Plenty of people do just understand that sometimes things just don't work out right away. Some people take more time. Some people need to find reasons. Everyone is different and everyone handles things in different ways. What I'm saying is that I don't see the harm in letting people whose self-esteem is already at its lowest believe that their ex has a mental disorder rather than believing that there was something wrong with them and that they are unlovable (which is how I felt before my ex was diagnosed).

 

And again..people who think that way (like me) absolutely need to get help. I am. My therapist is awesome.

 

You don't need to think something was wrong with your ex to gain self esteem. Your ex leaving you, for any reason, doesn't need to be a value judgement of you. I still find it silly to diagnose people to make ourselves feel better. Honestly, it would make me feel worse that I stayed with such an awful person.

 

Most people who are disagreeing with you have realized that it doesn't matter in the end. You still have to actually do the work to heal, and you can have self esteem and self worth without diagnosing people. Stop making your self esteem about someone else's behavior.

[Downtown]

You don't need to think something was wrong with your ex to gain self esteem....Stop making your self esteem about someone else's behavior.

BC, you are correct that most people leaving a BPDer relationship simply walk away and don't look back. With the exception of a few who want to vent, those folks do not show up on relationship forums seeking advice. Most of the folks in BPDer relationships who show up here pouring their hearts out about an abusive partner are excessive caregivers with such low personal boundaries that they are having great difficulty disentangling themselves from their BPDer partners.

 

Because full blown BPD affects 6% of the population (and roughly 12% of adult relationships), this is a BIG problem. Of the 157 mental disorders listed in DSM-5, BPD is the one most notorious for confusing the abused partners so badly that many feel like they may be going crazy. I discussed this in Post #272 above, where I provided four reasons as to why recognizing the partner's strong BPD traits will greatly speed the recovery of these abused partners. And it will greatly reduce the odds of their running into the arms of another BPDer just like the one they left.

 

I still find it silly to diagnose people to make ourselves feel better.

You are confusing diagnosing with spotting BPD warning signs. There are thousands of medical centers providing a list of symptoms for hundreds of disorders on their public websites. They do not intend that the lay public use that information for diagnosis. The symptoms information is provided to educate the lay public about warning signs because, when laymen are able to spot those signs, they are far more likely to recognize a potential problem and seek help. Similarly, there are hundreds of mental health centers providing lists of symptoms for mental disorders such as BPD. They recognize that it is important for laymen to be able to spot these warning signs.

[KaliLove]

You don't need to think something was wrong with your ex to gain self esteem. Your ex leaving you, for any reason, doesn't need to be a value judgement of you. I still find it silly to diagnose people to make ourselves feel better. Honestly, it would make me feel worse that I stayed with such an awful person.

 

Most people who are disagreeing with you have realized that it doesn't matter in the end. You still have to actually do the work to heal, and you can have self esteem and self worth without diagnosing people. Stop making your self esteem about someone else's behavior.

 

These are nice thoughts but again, everybody is different. Just because you would feel differently in the OP's situation doesn't mean he can automatically start thinking the way you think.

 

This is what therapy is for.

 

99% of the world is not on Loveshack and can handle their break ups on their own or with friends or family. The people who look for advice here are hurting too much to deal with things on their own.

[BC1980]

These are nice thoughts but again, everybody is different. Just because you would feel differently in the OP's situation doesn't mean he can automatically start thinking the way you think.

 

This is what therapy is for.

 

99% of the world is not on Loveshack and can handle their break ups on their own or with friends or family. The people who look for advice here are hurting too much to deal with things on their own.

 

I come at this as a person who wanted to think my ex was a narcissist and emotionally unavailable. Maybe he is. Maybe not. The point is that the relationship was dysfunctional, so it has been more difficult to get over. It was emotionally abusive. I'm making the point that you have to deal with yourself at some point. Right now, it might make him feel better to label his ex, but, in the bigger picture, he's better off concentrating on himself and not focusing on his ex.

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

[ThatMan]

obviously that's utopian and unrealistic that anyone could be so logical about it, but isn't that just a more likely scenario (Ockham's razor?) than someone having a disorder? again...hypothetical question, not judgement against anyone wanting to believe someone is BPD or not.

Bull****.

You've done nothing but make judgements.

 

The very first thing you've contributed was a judgement. You've essentially asked if anyone actually had a borderline spouse, or are they making stuff up to stigma others by looking for an excuse for their poor behavior.

 

These cluster-b traits are no joke. We're beyond the simple instance of things not working out or fitting together. Now we're in the territory of people dealing with some out of control behavior, relating to what they've read in articles, and hopefully seeking out the help they need to deal with the aftermath. I ask that you stop being a condescending, judgmental prick who presumes to understand what other people go through and later dismissing their experiences as no big deal.

[BC1980]

BC, you are correct that most people leaving a BPDer relationship simply walk away and don't look back. With the exception of a few who want to vent, those folks do not show up on relationship forums seeking advice. Most of the folks in BPDer relationships who show up here pouring their hearts out about an abusive partner are excessive caregivers with such low personal boundaries that they are having great difficulty disentangling themselves from their BPDer partners.

 

Because full blown BPD affects 6% of the population (and roughly 12% of adult relationships), this is a BIG problem. Of the 157 mental disorders listed in DSM-5, BPD is the one most notorious for confusing the abused partners so badly that many feel like they may be going crazy. I discussed this in Post #272 above, where I provided four reasons as to why recognizing the partner's strong BPD traits will greatly speed the recovery of these abused partners. And it will greatly reduce the odds of their running into the arms of another BPDer just like the one they left.

 

You are confusing diagnosing with spotting BPD warning signs. There are thousands of medical centers providing a list of symptoms for hundreds of disorders on their public websites. They do not intend that the lay public use that information for diagnosis. The symptoms information is provided to educate the lay public about warning signs because, when laymen are able to spot those signs, they are far more likely to recognize a potential problem and seek help. Similarly, there are hundreds of mental health centers providing lists of symptoms for mental disorders such as BPD. They recognize that it is important for laymen to be able to spot these warning signs.

 

I basically maintain that your self worth has to eventually come from within, not from an ex diagnosed or suspected as mentally ill. That's my entire point. It is helpful to know the signs and understand them. I've never said it wasn't. It should help your recovery to an extent, but I can't advocate people labeling exes with psychiatric disorders to make themselves feel better. That was my initial point, but this conversation seems to have devolved into something else.

[KaliLove]

I come at this as a person who wanted to think my ex was a narcissist and emotionally unavailable. Maybe he is. Maybe not. The point is that the relationship was dysfunctional, so it has been more difficult to get over. It was emotionally abusive. I'm making the point that you have to deal with yourself at some point. Right now, it might make him feel better to label his ex, but, in the bigger picture, he's better off concentrating on himself and not focusing on his ex.

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

I actually agree with the bolded completely.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

To the OP: If this were my thread, I'd /ignore anyone talking down to you for questioning whether your ex has a personality disorder.

 

To the people talking down to the OP:

Just shut up. Nobody cares if you think there is an epidemic of people wanting to blame personality disorders for their exes behavior. Most people on here are too nice (ex. Downtown) to tell you this, but fortunately I'm not. Personality disorders are destructive. They destroy souls, families, minds, hearts.... There is no use for you to come here and minimize that. The issue doesn't concern you because you have no helpful input. Why is your opinion important here? And why do you insist on posting again and again after you have made your point? Do you have a personality disorder? it's starting to feel that way. Narcissistic much? Histrionic and just creating drama? Don't even reply to me, it's not helpful. Just keep your BS to yourself.

 

If you want to talk about how much you don't like people questioning if their ex has a PD, start your own thread to talk about it. Don't ruin someone else's thread where they are getting useful information.

 

Here's an example of how ignorant people can be about PDs:

My wife's mother is a sociopath. All her life my wife has been crushed over and over by her mother. She's shed so many tears and has been confused and not able to come to terms with why her mother didn't love her and was able to use her so coldly. When we both learned about psychopathy, my wife was finally able to put the pieces together and start to HEAL. That is progress.

 

For you people saying there is something wrong with someone trying to love someone with a PD, seriously get lost. It is reality that most of us know someone with a PD. It is not in many people's nature to just abandon someone they care about. If you can do that, fine. But don't try to talk down to a poster who has had their soul crushed by someone with a destructive disorder.

 

All it takes is someone with a good heart to be suckered into wanting to be there for someone like this. Once they identify the symptoms of a PD, they can avoid it in the future and have a happier life. So shut up. You are only being disruptive to a person trying to get perspective.

Edited May 12, 2014 by AShogunNamedMarcus

[flitzanu]

Bull****.

You've done nothing but make judgements.

 

The very first thing you've contributed was a judgement. You've essentially asked if anyone actually had a borderline spouse, or are they making stuff up to stigma others by looking for an excuse for their poor behavior.

 

These cluster-b traits are no joke. We're beyond the simple instance of things not working out or fitting together. Now we're in the territory of people dealing with some out of control behavior, relating to what they've read in articles, and hopefully seeking out the help they need to deal with the aftermath. I ask that you stop being a condescending, judgmental prick who presumes to understand what other people go through and later dismissing their experiences as no big deal.

 

that's cute with the name calling. also didn't dismiss anything, i asked why everyone is so quick to judge. also if you read what i've posted, i said i did the same thing with my ex, believing she's BPD.

 

as for being a condescending, judgmental prick, you sound like my ex girlfriend. i'm probably a narcissist though.

[KaliLove]

that's cute with the name calling. also didn't dismiss anything, i asked why everyone is so quick to judge. also if you read what i've posted, i said i did the same thing with my ex, believing she's BPD.

 

as for being a condescending, judgmental prick, you sound like my ex girlfriend. i'm probably a narcissist though.

 

As much as I disagree with a lot of the stuff you've written, this actually cracked me up.

[flitzanu]

I understood your original question. Plenty of people do just understand that sometimes things just don't work out right away. Some people take more time. Some people need to find reasons. Everyone is different and everyone handles things in different ways. What I'm saying is that I don't see the harm in letting people whose self-esteem is already at its lowest believe that their ex has a mental disorder rather than believing that there was something wrong with them and that they are unlovable (which is how I felt before my ex was diagnosed).

 

And again..people who think that way (like me) absolutely need to get help. I am. My therapist is awesome.

 

good, then we're finally near the same ground. i don't believe it's destructive to allow ourselves to believe our ex was faulty, i DO believe that letting the obsession of FINDING that fault to be...destructive.

 

Cali - your story sucks dude. it sucks that you had your soul crushed. i am being genuine with YOU here, as this is your thread. the rest i could care less of their opinions. also, nothing personal, i'd be asking another person the same questions if there were 19 pages of comments and the keywords "bpd" because it obviously has to be a good thread to garner that much attention. if you ever want to swap stories about crazy exes, i'd be more than happy to share a laugh about their crazy antics and all the nonsense we put up with trying to keep them with us.