How to broach subject with wife?

[DasPope]

Thank you all for your responses and after taking them in and processing them I'd make the following observations from my perspective.

First off there seems to be some kind of perception that we are in some kind of sugar daddy relationship and I would refute that completely. Whilst I am certainly very comfortable financially I don't consider myself filthy rich and we do not live an extravagant lifestyle nor does my W show any interest in such things. She herself has a well paid job in a career that she enjoys and I just don't see this as having any traction at all.

Several posters have mentioned that I need evidence and that I should hire a P.I or some such thing however I have already obtained some fairly damming hard evidence in the form of copies of communications that leave no doubt in my mind and hiring a P.I to catch her when her activities have been random and infrequent seems to me to be a waste of time.

On the matter of legal issues I have already been in contact with attorneys to investigate the ramifications of a separation or divorce and I am comfortable with my position there should matters be unable to be resolved.

I've been surprised by the level of hostility here ...I am a lot sadder then I am angry about this. She is not under any other circumstances a selfish, uncaring, immature or manipulative person and this pattern of behavior is most out of character.

I am leaving soon to go home and I intend to confront her about this tonight and I will have the gathered files as back up however the concept of letting her know that I am aware but not the extent of my awareness is a good one and I shall take that with me.

[Eivuwan]

Good luck OP, it seems like your way of coping may result in a relatively smooth resolution. Sometimes I do worry that you are not really processing anything emotionally, but that can wait.

[No Limit]

I've been surprised by the level of hostility here ...I am a lot sadder then I am angry about this. She is not under any other circumstances a selfish, uncaring, immature or manipulative person and this pattern of behavior is most out of character.

I am leaving soon to go home and I intend to confront her about this tonight and I will have the gathered files as back up however the concept of letting her know that I am aware but not the extent of my awareness is a good one and I shall take that with me.

 

Considering that in almost every case selfishness is the reasoning for cheating (maybe also in your case, but we can only assume things from the observations you post; I'm just hoping you won't have to realize that this person has a very different side you just didn't know yet) it's only logic for the users here to think this way of your wife.

 

I don't like to write this but to be honest, you two weren't meant to work out in the first place. 20 years is a gap too big for a relationship to work. She's young, she wants to go out, celebrate and go to parties. Maybe she wanted to do this together with you, but reality just doesn't allow it.

[Running Man]

IF:

She is not under any other circumstances a selfish, uncaring, immature or manipulative person and this pattern of behavior is most out of character.

 

Then Why:

 

However it has recently come to my attention that during our relationship that she has had several (3 that I know about ... one that I strongly suspect) one night stands with other men (and one .. 2 day weekend stand) that she had met while I was away on business or otherwise engaged ( I travel frequently). The most recent of these was about 2 weeks ago and I learned of it by complete accident by overhearing a conversation between her and her best friend when they thought I wasn't home.

 

Since then I have checked her computer and phone records and found several references to the other previous incidents going back about 18 months. Before I married her several of my friends mentioned to me that she was flirtatious but she has always been very loving towards me when we are together and I'd never noticed her flirting with other men when I have been around but she certainly has a bubbly and gregarious personality and is very attractive. The pattern of her behavior seems to be restricted to times when I was away and she was out socializing with her friends (who are very much younger then me but with whom I get along fairly well).

 

AFTER YOU FOUND: I have already obtained some fairly damming hard evidence in the form of copies of communications that leave no doubt in my mind

 

What part is not out of character, immature or manipulative? And if she does have a baby will she maintain her well paying job?????

Edited February 12, 2014 by Running Man

[Betrayed&Stayed]

She is not under any other circumstances a selfish, uncaring, immature or manipulative person and this pattern of behavior is most out of character.

 

Maybe so. Maybe not. For me (and others on here) it was hard to admit to myself that the women that I was married to was not who I thought she was. I believed with all of my being, that my wife was not capable of the acts that she committed. But guess what? I was terribly wrong!

 

Keep us posted.

[oldshirt]

First off there seems to be some kind of perception that we are in some kind of sugar daddy relationship and I would refute that completely. Whilst I am certainly very comfortable financially I don't consider myself filthy rich and we do not live an extravagant lifestyle nor does my W show any interest in such things. She herself has a well paid job in a career that she enjoys and I just don't see this as having any traction at all.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

I think you are letting the term sugar daddy and your own personal interpretation of what a sugar daddy is affect your judgement a little bit.

 

 

A guy does not have to be filthy rich and have an unemployed bimbo completely living off of him to be taken for a ride.

 

 

A guy can be a garbage man living down at the ol' trailer park and have a gold digger leeching off of him.

 

 

All it takes is a gal staying with one man she is not innately attracted to while enjoying the home, security and support he provides while she parties and bangs other dudes that do turn her on.

 

 

It doesn't matter if the guy makes minimum wage or multiple millions and it doesn't matter whether she doesn't' work or makes millions herself.

 

 

People are using the term sugar daddy with you because of your age difference.

 

 

What matters in your case is not the label you give this situation but the fact you are providing her a comfortable home, support, security and lifestyle while she is out partying and smoking pole.

 

 

your options -

 

 

- suck it up and live with it.

 

 

- kick her to the curb.

 

 

- smack down the affairs and try to reconcile a traditional exclusive marriage.

 

 

- open the marriage and allow her her fun and games and indulge in some fun and games of your own.

[aliveagain]

Hold your ground, draw your line in the sand and stand by it. Good luck.

[Iguanna]

Your issues with your significant other should have nothing to do with your age, or hers. You know how you feel about her, and you have years of experience of how she has been with you.

 

Treat this infidelity like you would any other!

 

I agree that age has nothing to do with infidelity, BUT the reaction of the betrayed spouse may have. What I mean is, is it easy for a middle aged man of 48 years old to divorce his 28 years old wife? Does he feel secure that he will find another woman like her in terms of age and beauty? I'm not so sure. People who get cheated on and don't divorce have some valid reasons: some don't divorce cause they can't afford to, some want to keep their lifestyle, some don't want to show to the world that they failed and some don't feel secure with themselves that they'll find better or that they deserve better. This man seems determined to actually do something about this with the risk to lose her. Will this choice be the wisest for him in the long term? What I want to say is that not all infidelity stories require the same way to deal with them. If this man wants to have kids, maybe he won't easily have the chance to find a woman who will be able to have kids herself. So age does play a role in the decision making, I think.

[Iguanna]

I guess Im just naive! I never considered those two things, age and beauty, to be the criteria for proposing. I suppose if that is what some people do, then they get what they wanted. A young beautiful person.

 

To be brutally honest, what else does a 48 years old middle aged man find in a 28 years old woman who obviously likes to party? I mean, I would find it more natural if the woman was some serious mature woman who wants to settle down and she likes older men just for the security and experience they offer. But a young woman who is beautiful and likes to sleep with various men? Definitely not one for a family man, regardless his age.

 

Are you aware how MANY men just marry a younger woman just for her beauty and youth? Are you aware how many men lose a great amount of money just to keep this kind of woman? You'd be surprised...

[oldshirt]

Even if he were 28 also, he would still have a serial cheating wife on his his hands who is using him him for security and support while she goes off and plays. Would that make it ok if they were both the same age??

 

Would it make any difference if this were a 48 year old woman hit' n the bars and going home with strange men while he was out earning the roof over her head and the food on her table?

 

The only factor that age plays is if he was her age he may be able to get himself buffed up and dressed up enough to trip her trigger himself. That probably won't happen at his age.

 

And is she was his age, she probably wouldn't be able to pull the hot young studs and do much better than him.

 

As it stands now she can pull whatever stud she wants and he won't be able to compete on a purely physical level.

[miguelcervantes]

I am in what I believe to be a unusual situation with my wife of 2 years and would like advice. I don't believe she has had any long term affairs or romantic infatuations and all my covert diggings lead me to believe she values our relationship and our marriage very highly but her behavior on occasions seems to be at odds with this.

 

We have been married for 2 years and together for 4 years and there is a large age difference between us. I am 48 and she is 28 and in nearly all aspects of our lives together we are very happy. Our sex life is good and frequent and we are normally are very open and honest with each other and frankly I thought I was the happiest I could be.

 

However it has recently come to my attention that during our relationship that she has had several (3 that I know about ... one that I strongly suspect) one night stands with other men (and one .. 2 day weekend stand) that she had met while I was away on business or otherwise engaged ( I travel frequently). The most recent of these was about 2 weeks ago and I learned of it by complete accident by overhearing a conversation between her and her best friend when they thought I wasn't home.

 

Since then I have checked her computer and phone records and found several references to the other previous incidents going back about 18 months. Before I married her several of my friends mentioned to me that she was flirtatious but she has always been very loving towards me when we are together and I'd never noticed her flirting with other men when I have been around but she certainly has a bubbly and gregarious personality and is very attractive. The pattern of her behavior seems to be restricted to times when I was away and she was out socializing with her friends (who are very much younger then me but with whom I get along fairly well).

 

I am of course very hurt by this and I find it difficult to understand how she could be having what appears to be occasional casual sex with other men while things between us have been so good. She is often telling me how lucky she feels to have me and how I make her so happy and has discussed starting a family.I have said nothing to her but she is well aware that something is wrong with me. She tells me to tell her about it when I am ready but I haven't the slightest idea how to tell her or even how to broach the subject. Any advice from people who have had similar issues ?

 

Do you not find your post above at the very least ODD ? "Her behaviour on occasions seems to be at odds with this" ?????? Why couldn't you just say "My much younger and carefree wife is cheating on me everytime I am away, which is a lot of the time."

 

Is it really that difficult for you to understand what is going on. She is giving you sex because you provide her with stability and support. But that does not stop her living her young single life. I know that you expected her to stay faithful, but now that you know she is not, is not straightforward as to what you need to do. I am sure she will understand (she probably thought that you were OK with the arrangement because you hadn't really done anything about it). As you say she has a job and can move on (although I am sure she much preferred having you around for income support and companionship).

[Sub]

48 isn't what it used to be, IMO. I have a bunch of friends, and a brother, in their mid-to-late 40's who look and act like people at least a decade younger. Just as 28 isn't a baby, I'm sure the OP isn't some silver-haired coot who waxes nostalgic about the price of bread in his day.

[John-Dough]

Thank you all for your responses and after taking them in and processing them I'd make the following observations from my perspective.

First off there seems to be some kind of perception that we are in some kind of sugar daddy relationship and I would refute that completely. Whilst I am certainly very comfortable financially I don't consider myself filthy rich and we do not live an extravagant lifestyle nor does my W show any interest in such things. She herself has a well paid job in a career that she enjoys and I just don't see this as having any traction at all.

Several posters have mentioned that I need evidence and that I should hire a P.I or some such thing however I have already obtained some fairly damming hard evidence in the form of copies of communications that leave no doubt in my mind and hiring a P.I to catch her when her activities have been random and infrequent seems to me to be a waste of time.

On the matter of legal issues I have already been in contact with attorneys to investigate the ramifications of a separation or divorce and I am comfortable with my position there should matters be unable to be resolved.

I've been surprised by the level of hostility here ...I am a lot sadder then I am angry about this. She is not under any other circumstances a selfish, uncaring, immature or manipulative person and this pattern of behavior is most out of character.

I am leaving soon to go home and I intend to confront her about this tonight and I will have the gathered files as back up however the concept of letting her know that I am aware but not the extent of my awareness is a good one and I shall take that with me.

 

Good luck. You actually sound lot more in control than a lot of others on here. It seems, whatever approach you decide on will more than likely be the right approach. Keep positive. And 48 isn't old at all. You have nearly half your life left.

[CarrieT]

DasPope, how did the discussion go with your wife?

[Owl]

But i dont have the stats on this. I do believe that when we see an older man with a younger woman it sticks out among the crowd, this has a psychological effect of creating the illusion that something is occuring in the culture thaa is not actualy statistically relevant. (Sorry the sociologist in me escapes sometimes).

 

Relationships are such complex beasts that i firmly believe:

WE have to be careful generalising them

We can try to describe them but ultimately only those involved are in the best position to decide if they fit the type or not.

Whatever we thought when we entered in a relationship does not remain static, its always dynamic and thus developing along its own lines, not those necessarily as they began.

Arranged marriages can produce this effect easily. Positive or negative, the arrangement has nothing to do with the dynamics of the ongoing relationship.

Highschool sweathearts is another, we use that phrase specifically to point out that relations change in the normal lifespan of its constituents.

 

This is fascinating to me, as I am on the polar opposite of the belief scale.

 

People like to think that they're complex. Here's the thing...we're not. We're SIMPLE.

 

Relationships are SIMPLE. How we interact with people are based on just a few, simple criteria.

 

Marriages...also not complex.

 

He's with her because she provides him with something. She's with him because he provides her with something. She cheats because she wants more than he's providing. He may not know what it is she still wants, he may not know how to provide it, or he may know but still choose not to do so.

 

It's not complex. Generalizations work...generally most of the time. That's why they're generalizations.

 

People like to think that that they're the exception...not the rule. In reality...they're usually the rule. That's why it's the rule.

[Zenstudent]

This is fascinating to me, as I am on the polar opposite of the belief scale.

 

People like to think that they're complex. Here's the thing...we're not. We're SIMPLE.

 

Relationships are SIMPLE. How we interact with people are based on just a few, simple criteria.

 

Marriages...also not complex.

 

He's with her because she provides him with something. She's with him because he provides her with something. She cheats because she wants more than he's providing, AND she doesn't care if she has to stab him in the back to get it. He may not know what it is she still wants, he may not know how to provide it, or he may know but still choose not to do so.

 

It's not complex. Generalizations work...generally most of the time. That's why they're generalizations.

 

People like to think that that they're the exception...not the rule. In reality...they're usually the rule. That's why it's the rule.

I agree with most of it, just fixed a minor detail

[Owl]

Seaview, I think you and I are gonna have to agree to disagree.

 

On the contrary, I'd heartily recommend to the OP that he take careful look at those 'templates'. Take heed of the "stats" on how other people's relationships have tended to work out, especially those with very similar stories and circumstances.

 

They're the most likely way that HIS situation is likely to run as well.

 

Living on the hope and battle cry of "But my situation is different!" is precisly the wrong thing to do. It's exactly why so many of us ended up here, in fact. We knew the 'stats' on cheating...but figured that we'd 'beat the odds' because 'our situation is different'...because there was something magical or special about our relationship that seperated it from everyone else's, or some mystical force that made ours 'better' than everyone else's, or in some fashion immune to those 'stats' and 'templates'.

 

Like I said...I'm not seeing a common ground to agree on here.

 

OP really should be listening hard to what folks here are sharing with him.

[DasPope]

DasPope, how did the discussion go with your wife?

 

 

Briefly ... not so good. My suspicions have been correct and at least she has given me the courtesy of not lying or trying to excuse her behaviors. The one thing I did take away from this forum discussion as advice is the idea of not disclosing how much I knew and I think this approach has caused her to offer a frank and full disclosure which has been in some ways worse then I expected (and in other ways better). It would appear her behavior was simply one of behaving as a single person on occasional nights out for reasons she cannot understand or explain. She is obviously very guilty and remorseful. Currently we are both devastated and I'm not in the frame of mind to think rationally about the way forward. We will need to seek external counseling to try and work through this.

[DasPope]

This entire line has been about how people here have no business judging the OP about his relationship in terms of age. Instead of talking about his status as a BS he has been subjected to innuendos about his choice of partners.

 

]

 

I'd agree with you. I've found the level of hostility and prejudice from people here who simply do not believe the information they have been given to be incredible.

Edited February 13, 2014 by DasPope

[CarrieT]

Currently we are both devastated and I'm not in the frame of mind to think rationally about the way forward. We will need to seek external counseling to try and work through this.

 

I'm glad you see that it takes time to be able to move forward. Now is the time to re-address the relationship and what you both want for the future. I imagine it will take counseling for both you; her for determining why she cheated (and so often?) and you, if you wish to continue in the marriage.

 

There will be a lot of people here who will advise you to dump her completely. But many of us know it is not so cut-and-dry and there ARE many, many marriages that have survived infidelity.

 

Don't push yourself to come to any conclusions so quickly. It is a fresh wound and will take time to figure out what kind of bandage you need to heal...

[drifter777]

DasPope: The age thing aside (who cares?) I think many posters are kind of freaked out by the serial nature of your wife's cheating. Most of us take it as Gospel that trying to reconcile with a serial cheater is a waste of everyone's time because the marriage vow means nothing to these people. They might be addicts or broken in some other way but the bottom line is that you can't fix them and marriage counseling is usually not effective. They need to work on themselves in individual counseling and during that time they will continue to betray you. Nobody on here wants to see anyone go through that and those of us who are urging you to take a very hard line are reacting to the situation as you described it. Yeah, there are some viscous BS's here but most are just sharing their infidelity experience with you.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

Briefly ... not so good. My suspicions have been correct and at least she has given me the courtesy of not lying or trying to excuse her behaviors. The one thing I did take away from this forum discussion as advice is the idea of not disclosing how much I knew and I think this approach has caused her to offer a frank and full disclosure which has been in some ways worse then I expected (and in other ways better). It would appear her behavior was simply one of behaving as a single person on occasional nights out for reasons she cannot understand or explain. She is obviously very guilty and remorseful. Currently we are both devastated and I'm not in the frame of mind to think rationally about the way forward. We will need to seek external counseling to try and work through this.

 

How many of her friends knew about this lifestyle of hers? How were they when they interacted with you? What kind of group of friends tolerates this type of behavior? If you had a guy friend doing this to his wife while you were single, would you have gone along with it?

 

It bothers me that her girlfriends seemed so casual about it, accepted it, didn't discuss it all that much. To me, it says that it's been going on for your entire marriage, probably your entire relationship.

 

Did you ever hear of the saying, "birds of a feather flock together"?

 

I know what she told you. I would be extremely curious of what she told her girlfriends about why she was doing it, and how she felt about you. I also would be curious to know what she tells them now about being caught.

 

Cheaters usually lie about everything, but I do believe her story about enjoying behaving as a single person, and also having a monogamous relationship at home. Where I come from, they have a word for it - SELFISH. I don't believe that she doesn't know why she did it. She did it because it was enjoyed it, and because she didn't think she'd get caught.

 

I sense a bit of minimization on her part when you say "behaving as a single person on occasional nights out." I think it goes a lot deeper than that. What I mean is, she didn't just "slip up" on those nights out, she ACTIVELY PLANNED those nights out, and looked forward to them, and had no intention of ending them. It was a LIFESTYLE for her, and one she enjoyed a lot.

 

It pains me to hear you say "she is obviously very guilty and remorseful." Please think about that. The only difference between yesterday and today is that today she is caught. The only difference. So if she wasn't guilty and remorseful yesterday, and she is today, the reason for it is because she got caught. Not because of what she was doing, because that has not changed.

 

You stated in your first post, "we are normally are very open and honest with each other." In reality, it seems, she has kept a very significant truth from you - she was living a whole other lifestyle with her friends, and it was not just limited to when they went out. It was the HER that they knew. They conversed about her cheating in their day-to-day conversations as casually as they conversed about what restaurant you went out to last weekend.

 

Also, please consider that you may have overlooked something obvious about her before you got married. In your first post, you said, "Before I married her several of my friends mentioned to me that she was flirtatious." Kind of an unusual statement for SEVERAL friends to make to YOU, when they knew you were serious about her and wanted to marry her. I suggest you consider approaching those friends, if you feel you can, and ask about their "flirtatious" comment and if they were trying to warn you off from marrying her.

 

You also stated, "She is often telling me how lucky she feels to have me and how I make her so happy." Did she seem like SHE wanted to make YOU happy? Relationships are very rarely exactly equal, usually one partner gives more than another, and it can change over time - how would you assess your relationship with her in terms of who was more giving to the other?

 

I'm really sorry for the situation you are in. Please examine all aspects of your past relationship, sometimes knowing a bit of the truth opens up your eyes to a lot of things you overlooked in the past. Hindsight. I am very skeptical of the reason for her remorse - sorry for hurting you vs. sad about her own pain in being found out. Please take care.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Mickey_Fitzpatrick

[harrybrown]

Sorry you are going thru this tough time. I hope you get a counselor that is helpful when cheating is involved.

 

It is good that she was hopefully honest with you and did not give you the trickle-truth.

[Syco]

I'm sorry.

 

However, she is a serial cheater. What is the point of counseling? Move on from her and find yourself a woman who actually respects you. You deserve better.

[Bryanp]

You handled it well. Now the both of you must get

tested immediately for STD's

 

She claims she cannot understand or explain why she continued to act

as a single woman and screw random men behind your back.......Seriously?

 

She did it because:

1. She wanted to do it.

2. She did not care if she put you at risk for STD's.

3. She did not think she would get caught.

4. She thought that if she every got caught all she has to say was she did not know why she did it and lets go to marriage counseling.

5. If you had not caught her she would still be screwing men behind your back.

 

My conclusion is either or both:

1. She has a broken moral compass

2. She has no respect for you or your marriage

and is a person that uses people.

 

You need to see an attorney and down the line fine someone who truly loves and respects you and the concept of a monogamous marriage. Your current wife fails on all 3 categories. I wish you luck.