D-day

[HopingAgain]

I haven't participated in the posting here on LS in quite some time, but I have to say its amazing the clarity one can gather while watching from the sidelines.

 

Some of the reactionary and volatile responses from certain OW and WS on this post clearly show they are very intimidated by a BS who is experiencing a breakthrough and taking back control over their own lives despite being derailed by an affair. I think it frightens certain people who lack that type of personal power and self control in their own lives.

[underwater2010]

Derrr.... I never said anything about not divorcing, or even the MM and OW being responsible for their actions. I'm just worried about the OP's state.

 

I don't see why you are so worried about her. She did not lift a hand to either party. She was calm and calculated. She planned out every little detail and followed through perfectly. She has not even engaged in any of the ploys that the MOW has used to contact her.

 

The anger, the things she talks about.

 

She has expressed her frustration, but I hardly see where she has done anything violent.

 

You can take it out on me all you like, but I'm not wrong. I'll just wait for the news blurb. I'm bowing out of this disaster waiting to happen.

 

All I can see you finding in the news is the MOW having a breakdown and causing further issues.

 

I am disappointed in anyone who tells her revenge is okay,

 

It is not so much revenge, but her protecting herself in the future. She chose to walk away from a crap marriage and inform the other BS of what was going on. In fact she did nothing but expose the truth and set it up to where she can move forward. She took back control.

 

that carrying a gun is okay when she is clearly distraught,

 

She did not say that she carries a gun at all times, just that she is legally allowed to do so. She has every right to protect herself in ANY situation. And to be clear, she had the permit before she even discovered the affair. It is not something she just picked up because she was "distraught" as you call it.

 

that meeting OW when she is not thinking clearly.

 

She did not chose to met up with MOW as of yet (at least not that she posted). The met up was forced upon her by the MOW showing up in the same location she was. Get it straight.

 

I am completely in favor of supporting her in her time of need, but that means supporting her emotions, not her decisions to do things that could turn out badly.

 

The only thing that is going to turn out badly is the WH and his MOW lives after the divorce proceedings go down. And that was do to their own sick behavior.

 

Scary business.

 

Yep, you are right....affairs are scary business. You never know who you are truly messing with.

 

 

Unless you hold a degree and are a practicing psychologist, please keep DO NOT try to label someone as something there are not.

[jlola]

I haven't participated in the posting here on LS in quite some time, but I have to say its amazing the clarity one can gather while watching from the sidelines.

 

Some of the reactionary and volatile responses from certain OW and WS on this post clearly show they are very intimidated by a BS who is experiencing a breakthrough and taking back control over their own lives despite being derailed by an affair. I think it frightens certain people who lack that type of personal power and self control in their own lives.

 

 

That makes sense. Affairs are all about control over BS. The WS and OW control what the BS knows. The OW can call BS anytime with the truth. WS can tell her about his "love". but usually WS has OW/OM convinced it would be a big mistake to tell BS because then BS may take control of the situation. Have all her ducks in a row and they DO NOT want that! They want to control when the BS finds out if ever. They want to have their ducks in a row before telling BS. They want a soft landing,but will allow BS to fall hard.

 

They fear the BS who is logical,who gathers info, who talks to her lawyer. that is their worse nightmare. Because now their reign of control is over.

 

Look at P&V's WH and MOW. They are the ones running around like chickens with heads cut off. Blaming,trying to backtrack,minimizing. Just interesting to watch. Like two criminals who get caught, there is no honor among thieves. Just two selfish people trying to lie and manipulate their way back to control.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Wow how resolute and single-minded in her decision and how this has all played out. No talking her out of it. On one hand I congratulate her and how she thought this out.

 

However like a few others, I also think that she needs a great deal of IC to understand the anger and nastiness in how she has closed every loophole and wants to hurt her ex to the core.

 

The interesting thing is P&V has given us no details to the extent of the affair (maybe an illegitimate child), the real state of their own marriage, how much they were together....... Yes I am a voyeur and want all the details so I can comment as to my pov.

 

Yes he cheated. Yes it is morally wrong. But that doesn't mean there is no story and it is only a black & white issue.

 

Is it her prerogative? Yes, but then again to read this and all her threads and not see the cruelty and need for P&V to go through intensive counseling can not be ignored.

[ladydesigner]

Wow how resolute and single-minded in her decision and how this has all played out. No talking her out of it. On one hand I congratulate her and how she thought this out.

 

However like a few others, I also think that she needs a great deal of IC to understand the anger and nastiness in how she has closed every loophole and wants to hurt her ex to the core.

 

The interesting thing is P&V has given us no details to the extent of the affair (maybe an illegitimate child), the real state of their own marriage, how much they were together....... Yes I am a voyeur and want all the details so I can comment as to my pov.

 

Yes he cheated. Yes it is morally wrong. But that doesn't mean there is no story and it is only a black & white issue.

 

Is it her prerogative? Yes, but then again to read this and all her threads and not see the cruelty and need for P&V to go through intensive counseling can not be ignored.

 

Who doesn't need counseling after infidelity My WH is lucky I didn't rip him a new *******!

[threelaurels]

However like a few others, I also think that she needs a great deal of IC to understand the anger and nastiness in how she has closed every loophole and wants to hurt her ex to the core.

 

...

 

Is it her prerogative? Yes, but then again to read this and all her threads and not see the cruelty and need for P&V to go through intensive counseling can not be ignored.

 

What exactly do you think a therapist would tell her? Her behavior is fundamentally human. Her reactions are 100% normal and do not signify any underlying pathology. Granted that my mental health work has all been done with juveniles and war veterans, I see absolutely nothing wrong with her or how she is reacting.

 

Anger and nastiness? Cruelty? Please!

 

How is she supposed to respond? With open arms? Is she supposed to give her POS WH a chance or something?

 

An eye for an eye may leave the whole world blind, but it's damn better than nothing.

[ladydesigner]

That makes sense. Affairs are all about control over BS. The WS and OW control what the BS knows. The OW can call BS anytime with the truth. WS can tell her about his "love". but usually WS has OW/OM convinced it would be a big mistake to tell BS because then BS may take control of the situation. Have all her ducks in a row and they DO NOT want that! They want to control when the BS finds out if ever. They want to have their ducks in a row before telling BS. They want a soft landing,but will allow BS to fall hard.

 

They fear the BS who is logical,who gathers info, who talks to her lawyer. that is their worse nightmare. Because now their reign of control is over.

 

Look at P&V's WH and MOW. They are the ones running around like chickens with heads cut off. Blaming,trying to backtrack,minimizing. Just interesting to watch. Like two criminals who get caught, there is no honor among thieves. Just two selfish people trying to lie and manipulate their way back to control.

 

That's it basically joila you nailed it. The BS is taking back her power! Kudos to her

 

It made my WH and MOW absolutely insane when I took back my power.

[2sure]

In divorcing my husband after Infidelity, I also had a methodical scorched earth policy. That was what was best for me. I could not waiver, because it was all very difficult, I had to focus. He knew me very well. I told him exactly what I would do if...and he had no reason to think I would not carry through. To some, several of the things I did may have seemed cold, cruel, or unnecessary.

 

And that may be true. In hindsight, I can agree with some of that myself. But - I also have no regrets to this day. It made me feel better at a time that I was struggling to maintain my composure , and build a new life.

I wanted there to be consequences other my own.

 

I was lied to, my love taken advantage of, and betrayed. He fought dirty in my opinion, because he felt I would not. I wanted him to learn more from the experience than the courts could deliver. I gave him back what he gave me. Thats what happens.

[Furious]

P&V

 

You seemed to have offended some people on how you're dealing with your situation.

 

Perhaps if you blamed yourself for being the cause for your husband stepping out on you, and that you deserved testing positive for hpv, and in no way interfered with the married other woman's marriage by exposing the affair to her husband you would get their sympathy.

 

Instead, you had the gall to hire a PI, get concrete proof, file for divorce and inform the other betrayed spouse. By doing this you've been branded crazy, and out of control.

 

Every betrayed spouse feels a sense of anger, sadness, and it's perfectly normal. It's as though the standard of being human cannot apply to you. That a betrayed spouse is held at a higher standard than those who are cheaters.

[Confusion_Reigns]

I think everyone has their own internal compass that lets them know if they are off track. I also think that all of our internal compass’s are set very-very personally to us and is probably only for us. We do what we do because of these compass’s…and I think they are based on more that our childhood or our belief systems. It’s just in us.

 

Having said that…I want to say that I don’t think Peaks&Valley’s has done anything horribly horrible. She is walking a tough road, and walking it with more dignity that many could muster given the circumstances. I don’t think anything she’s done could remotely be classified as crazy, unstable, unhinged, or vindictive. Honestly…she’s dishing out what she’s been served.

 

It’s NOT revenge. She is navigating the terrain of her life as it is at this moment. Just because her ideas of navigation don’t match others ideas doesn’t mean she’s wrong or being horrible.

 

Peaks, I just want to send you many-many hugs, love and support!

Edited October 28, 2013 by Confusion_Reigns

[road]

she has closed every loophole and wants to hurt her ex to the core.

 

The interesting thing is P&V has given us no details to the extent of the affair (maybe an illegitimate child), the real state of their own marriage, how much they were together....... Yes I am a voyeur and want all the details so I can comment as to my pov.

 

Yes he cheated. Yes it is morally wrong. But that doesn't mean there is no story and it is only a black & white issue.

 

Is it her prerogative? Yes.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with a BS doing everything to get even with their WS.

 

After all the WS and the AP did every thing that they could against the BS.

 

 

Details?

What details?

 

I don't need no stinkin' details.

 

The OP's WH cheated and banged the OW. There is nothing else necessary to know. You confuse the needing to know and wanting to know.

 

Not just yes, Yes and damn the torpedo's full steam ahead.

[Confusion_Reigns]

Quite honestly, given these circumstances I would hope that I'd have the same presence of mind to keep calm, cool, and collected as she has...It's good that she's closed all the loop holes, did she do that to hurt him? I highly doubt it...probably she did that to protect herself...and why not? It's not like she can TRUST him to do right by her...obviously that's not his top priority. Nope, she's doing the right thing for herself and the marriage isn't a 'partnership' any longer, he decided that when he stepped out on her.

[road]

P&V

 

 

Instead, you had the gall to hire a PI, get concrete proof, file for divorce and inform the other betrayed spouse. By doing this you've been branded crazy, and out of control.

 

 

 

Every BS should have the same gall as PV.

 

We need more "crazy" and "out of control" BS's like PV.

[yellowmaverick]

Yes he cheated. Yes it is morally wrong. But that doesn't mean there is no story and it is only a black & white issue.

 

 

 

See, that's the thing. For people who live according to a strong moral code, infidelity IS black and white. It is not situational, or negotiable. People who are engaged in affairs under a myriad of excuses just don't get this.

[yellowmaverick]

It made my WH and MOW absolutely insane when I took back my power

 

Mine too.

[jlola]

[quote=Toodamnpragmatic;5302760

 

 

Yes he cheated. Yes it is morally wrong. But that doesn't mean there is no story and it is only a black & white issue.

 

Is it her prerogative? Yes, but then again to read this and all her threads and not see the cruelty and need for P&V to go through intensive counseling can not be ignored.

 

 

An ex of mine had a business partner who embezzled money through the company for 7 years He felt betrayed,used,lied to. He was a victim of almost 1 million dollars stolen from him by this partner.

 

His partner was "family" which made the betrayal even worse I think. Anyway, there were family members who were very angry at him for pressing charges on the poor partner.

 

Was he a perfect business partner? I don't know. But I do know noone deserves betrayal of any kind. If the business partner was so unhappy, he could have broken up the partnership. No stole,manipulated and betrayed. He opened up a whole new can of worms with that action and the consequences were plenty.

 

I guess some people believe if you are a victim and you make sure the perpetrator is prosecuted to the fullest by giving all your evidence and making sure you make a credible witness. The jury will usually admire such a person.

 

If the jury does think there needs to be therapy for the victim, it is not because the victim is cruel or eeil. But because they were victim of cruelty evilness and nastiness. THAT is why the need for IC. Not because of the admirable actions of the victim.

 

Most victims of horrible crime do need therapy, they do have PTSD. BECAUSE of someone else's actions. Usually someone with a BAITER personality!

[cozycottagelg]

As a person, not as a WS, I will never take delight in a person being purposefuly set up to experience the greatest amount of pain possible.

 

I had never thought about it like that before..

[Spark1111]

As a person, not as a WS, I will never take delight in a person being purposefuly set up to experience the greatest amount of pain possible.

 

What then, do you call a secret affair?

 

an oops?

[jlola]

See, that's the thing. For people who live according to a strong moral code, infidelity IS black and white. It is not situational, or negotiable. People who are engaged in affairs under a myriad of excuses just don't get this.

 

I agree, right is right, wrong is wrong. Then you have the possible child of an P&V's WS's affair. But that is not deemed cruel ,nasty or evil by some. Why not? This is betrayal beyond what anyone should endure.

 

The child will have issues. Especially when he finds out the loving father who raised him is not his but AP. AP's are the ones who are in deep need of therapy for their cruelty and selfishness. Just WOW!!!!

 

BTW, I have told the story of my half sister(my father's child through an affair) and her affair child before. She tried to pass her MOM's child off as her husband's. But DNA taken when my nephew was 4 years old proved the truth. It completely destroyed the paternal grandmother, it was her 1st grandchild and she doted on him. My B-I-L was so devastated he went through a deep depression. He was an engineer and barely able to function at work.About 8 months later At 28 years died in a car accident. I honestly think his focus was off and he was not paying attention to the road.

 

My half sister has gone on to make her ex-husband's family the bad guys and for years did not tell my nephew the truth of his paternity. This is what these people are about. Their world is so twisted they cannot take blame or deal with reactions to their betrayals.

Edited October 28, 2013 by jlola

[Cali408]

PV,

 

I hope you find happiness through your dark days.

 

I know to some PV seems to have some anger issues, but can you blame her? She's not the type of person who can forgive this behavior. And it doesn't matter what type of spouse she was. If her husband didn't like being married to her, he should have left her.

 

This forum is her way of expressing her anger and reaffirming that she is doing the right thing in her mind.

 

Some thing hit home on this thread for me. Last page, when wayward couples make plans for a future and drop the BS like a boring class in college. PV beat them to the punch. That's all. I wish she would be more forgiving, but I don't know the whole marriage. Best of luck PV

[Furious]

It is like someone on death row. There are people who will cheer on the death. I am not one of them. I don't think they should be spared so to speak but I am a "look the other way" type person when justice is being served.

 

 

P&V's husband gifted her with an std. Her health was no concern to her cheating husband. She was denied the right to her own health and choices. She has every right to legally handle her situation in which ever way she chooses.

 

I find it disheartening that you feel pity and empathy for the WS and OW who when they chose to cheat they chose to deny P&V a choice in her own life.

[yellowmaverick]

an affair is not always done to purposefully cause the BS pain.

 

Yep..the BSs pain is just an "unavoidable casualty".

 

That is really just the result of discovery

 

So, your position is that the BS's pain is due to the fact that she dared to discover the affair?? Really?? You seem to have developed a serious detachment from the part of the WS and OW in contributing to the pain of the BS. WS and OW KNOW that there is a strong likelihood that the BS will discover the affair. They KNOW that the BS will be hurt or else they would not go to such great extremes to lie and hide the affair. YET, they have the affair anyway.....callously and in complete disregard for the BS, the kids, and others who are hurt. This is the epidemy of selfishness.

[jlola]

From Chumplady

 

 

#1.

Over time cheaters get sloppy. Maybe that’s because they need more of a high wire act to keep the high going. Maybe it’s because they’re lazy and they get so used to you being a clueless chump that getting away with it is their normal.

 

 

 

At some point, the house of cards falls down. And that’s when they’re going to appeal to your chumpiness, to trust them. Either they’ll gaslight you into doubting the evidence (don’t you trust what I tell you?), or they’ll make up some bull**** about how they loved you all along and are just confused right now.

 

 

That’s when the “brazenness” gets exposed as entitlement. What? You aren’t going to keep this sweet cake gig going?

Funny how not brazen they are after exposure, with pleas not to tell the children or ruin their reputation, or tell the affair partner’s spouse. Suddenly it’s all about caution and rectitude and not doing anything rash. Funny how not brazen they are when you stop being a chump.

 

#2.

I understand now the blues song that goes: “you mistook kindness for weakness/And you walked right over me.”

 

Cheaters mistake chump kindness for weakness — and they will walk right over you. It’s not that it’s wrong to be compassionate. I don’t want a life in which I never trust anyone again. It’s just that you’re casting your pearls to swine. Recognize that disordered people will use your kindness against you, and your strength and your generosity.

 

 

“Remorse” kept me stuck. My ex was operatic in his feigned remorse. It hurt me to see him in such pain. I could not imagine a world in which someone could MAKE THAT UP to play me. Who could say things like “I swear to you on my father’s grave” or “you know how much I love you and <your son>, I would never do anything to jeopardize our relationship.” But he did say those things, and more, but his actions told a very different story. We meant nothing to him and our pain didn’t register with him one bit.

 

I feel into the compassion trap. I was afraid of leaving, absolutely. But I also struggled mightily with the thoughts that I had to be a good person and not quit. Not let this person down — even though he had let me down in the most intimate and humiliating of ways.

My willingness to shoulder that unfair burden kept me stuck in that marriage. I should’ve wised up sooner and realized that he saw me as a mark. My sticking by him to him meant he got another chance at cake. The price of admission was some kabuki theater that he was “sorry” and sitting in a shrink’s chair once a week and spewing word salad about Why He Did It.

 

The take away from this is NOT don’t show compassion or never trust again. No, it’s that chumps need to choose better.

[yellowmaverick]

Her H was disgusting. And now he is losing everything except for maybe a crazY MOW (oh yay!). And now he has to face his family, friends, and children hating him. Financial ruin and life of regrets. And he has only himself to blame. So sue me if I don't find that exciting or enjoyable.

 

But do you understand that HE did this to himself? This is 100% on him and the OW, not on the BS.

 

These situations are a "no win" situation for the BS. NO outcome is good for her. The best that she can do is look out for herself and not be a doormat. I hardly think that she finds this whole filthy mess "exciting" or "enjoyable".

[threelaurels]

I can't speak for all WS but I know my actions were despite my H not in spite of him. I didn't think to myself "you know what would destroy my H, screwing MM. Let's do it." contrary to what many people think, an affair is not always done to purposefully cause the BS pain. That is really just the result of discovery. If I had wanted to set about hurting my H I would have told him I was gonna go screw MM whether he liked it or not. But I knew my statemnt would be jumped all over. If you enjoy watching payback then that is your personality. Me. No, i don't enjoy it. It makes me feel ill inside when someone enjoys it. It makes me feel ill inside when movies have it. It is who I have always been. When my brothers got in trouble for being mean to me I always felt bad for them. I never gloated but neither did I want them off the hook. I wonder why it is so hard for some people to accept that just because you don't dance on someone's grave doesn't mean you wish they were still alive.

 

When the ow/om take delight in the BS finding out about the A or show no empathy to what they are doing to the BS i also cringe. Enjoying another person's demise is just not something I would ever feel pleasure in.

 

And as I have said over and over. I don't think these WSs got anything they didnt deserve. I just am not the type of person who takes pleasure in it. And I can see people disagreeing with the execution of the plan but not the end results.

 

I think there is a fundamental difference in finding delight at someone else's pain and finding delight in justice finally being served. A victim can feel joy when an offender is put in prison but, at the same time, feel sorrow for the offender and their family.