is good enough good enough?

[road]

To understand that he didn't have affairs because I did, he had then because he has poor coping skills to deal with stressful situations. I'd like to know what his new coping skills are. I'd like to know if he feels justified in any action because "I did it too" I'd like him to be honest with me, no matter how bad the situation. When he didn't tell me about either affair OR the phone call, it makes me trusting him nigh impossible. I'd like him to understand how very difficiult it is for me to live here, looking over my shoulder all the time, wondering if I'll see them. I'd like him to understand what it does to me when I know he's at work everyday, 100 yards away from the first OW.

I'd like HIM to read, initiate talks, find articles on how best to heal from this.....

 

 

If your BH/WH had an affair first it was because he does not know how to maintain appropriate boundaries with the opposite sex. He did not have an affair first you did. So safe to assume he had boundaries or there was never a woman attractive enough that would cheat with your husband.

 

You having the affair first muddied the water's. Your WH could of had bad boundaries all along but he never had been able to find an OW till after your affair. Or he was willing to do a two bagger now (woman so ugly that you have to put a bag on one's own head if the bag placed over her head falls while you are doing her) just so he could have a RA.

 

BH/WH's RA, is called a RA because he had his affair as a response to your having an affair first.

 

Your BH/WH decided to medicate himself with an OW1. Felt he needed another dose so he had OW2.

 

Self medicating never works. You should know because you had your OM give you a couple shots of medication himself.

 

You are keeping score. Keeping score will never allow the marriage to heal.

 

 

 

A BH DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR HIS WW BLAME HIM FOR THEIR MARRIAGE BEING BAD. THE BH WANTS THE WW TO OWN WHAT SHE DID AND SAY THAT IT WAS HER FAULT TO HAVE THAT AFFAIR.

 

YOU SAYING THAT YOUR BH/WH WAS WRONG TO HAVE A REVENGE AFFAIR COMES ACROSS AS THE SAME AS A WW BLAMING HER AFFAIR ON HER BH BECAUSE THE MARRIAGE WAS BAD DUE THE BH NOT BEING A GOOD HUSBAND.

[katielee]

You need to learn to comprehend better. There was sarcasm mixed in with that you and your BH/WH will not do what is needed to recover.

 

Road - comprehension is what I do for a living. Guessing we're all not here for sarcasm... Just say what you mean. I know I'm thick...,

[katielee]

Road- that's exactly what I'm saying, my affair was 100% my fault. Not sure where you lost that.,,,,

[road]

Reposted because I could not edit the post.

Changes made to clarify meaning.

 

To understand that he didn't have affairs because I did, he had then because he has poor coping skills to deal with stressful situations. I'd like to know what his new coping skills are. I'd like to know if he feels justified in any action because "I did it too" I'd like him to be honest with me, no matter how bad the situation. When he didn't tell me about either affair OR the phone call, it makes me trusting him nigh impossible. I'd like him to understand how very difficiult it is for me to live here, looking over my shoulder all the time, wondering if I'll see them. I'd like him to understand what it does to me when I know he's at work everyday, 100 yards away from the first OW.

I'd like HIM to read, initiate talks, find articles on how best to heal from this.....

 

 

If your BH/WH had an affair first it was because he does not know how to maintain appropriate boundaries with the opposite sex. He did not have an affair first you did. So safe to assume he had boundaries or there was never a woman attractive enough that would cheat with your husband.

 

You having the affair first muddied the water's. Your WH could of had bad boundaries all along but he never had been able to find an OW till after your affair. Or he was willing to do a two bagger now (woman so ugly that you have to put a bag on one's own head if the bag placed over her head falls while you are doing her) just so he could have a RA.

 

BH/WH's RA, is called a RA because he had his affair as a response to your having an affair first.

 

Your BH/WH decided to medicate himself with an OW1. Felt he needed another dose so he had OW2.

 

Self medicating never works. You should know because you had your OM give you a couple shots of medication himself.

 

You are keeping score. Keeping score will never allow the marriage to heal.

 

 

 

A BH DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR HIS WW BLAME HIM FOR THE HER AFFAIR BECAUSE THEIR MARRIAGE WAS BAD. THE BH WANTS THE WW TO OWN WHAT SHE DID AND SAY THAT IT WAS HER FAULT TO HAVE THAT AFFAIR.

 

YOU SAYING THAT YOUR BH/WH WAS WRONG TO HAVE A REVENGE AFFAIR COMES ACROSS AS THE SAME AS A WW BLAMING HER AFFAIR ON HER BH BECAUSE THE MARRIAGE WAS BAD DUE THE BH NOT BEING A GOOD HUSBAND.

 

AND THE WAY YOUR BH/WH IS BLAMESHIFTING, HE SEES YOU AS BLAMESHIFTING.

Edited September 7, 2013 by road

[AlwaysGrowing]

Revenge affairs...are just like all other affairs...poor coping skills at play.

 

You can't make your husband do anything or think anything.

 

It seems that you really want this marriage to work.

 

You need to really think about what you want. What is it? If it is something you require of your husband, all you can do is talk about it. If it doesn't work out, then what? That is for you to figure out.

 

We often read romanticized versions of love on the ow/om thread...its just not reality. Life is full of ebbs, its how we conduct ourselves through them, shows our strength. It also prepares us for the next.

 

You also seem stuck on your husbands healing. LET. IT. GO

 

For the bs side, there is no grand moment, no series of words, no one action...that takes away the pain. Its only processing it, putting it where it belongs....back on the offender..and reclaiming ourselves.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

To understand that he didn't have affairs because I did, he had then because he has poor coping skills to deal with stressful situations. I'd like to know what his new coping skills are. I'd like to know if he feels justified in any action because "I did it too" I'd like him to be honest with me, no matter how bad the situation. When he didn't tell me about either affair OR the phone call, it makes me trusting him nigh impossible. I'd like him to understand how very difficiult it is for me to live here, looking over my shoulder all the time, wondering if I'll see them. I'd like him to understand what it does to me when I know he's at work everyday, 100 yards away from the first OW.

I'd like HIM to read, initiate talks, find articles on how best to heal from this.....

 

Katielee, I agree your husband should own up, but he is not there yet. There was a time when you were not there, when you had affairs, you had poor coping skills, you lied, you justified your affair while you were having it. Yes, you have done work on yourself and you still are working on yourself and you feel you have rectified or are in process of rectifying the shortcomings in yourself that allowed you to do what you did. However, there was a time when you were NOT doing that, when you were cheating, lying - even when you first posted on this forum about it not being physical and didn't tell your husband until a year later.

 

Katielee, this is a complicated situation and it is not going to resolve quickly. You had to work through it for yourself, so does he. He is not you, he is not on your timetable, and he will not take exactly the same actions. You don't like the "he did it because you did it" line of thinking when it comes to the so-called revenge affair, but by the same token, you cannot expect him to "learn coping skills, be honest with you, read, initiate talks, etc.," just because you did it too; and especially not on the exact same timetable you did it on.

 

If he is a good man, he should come around. If not, you have to cut bait. How long to wait is up to you, but remember, there was a time when you were dishonest and cheating and he felt at least a little like you feel now, and he waited for you to come around.

[ladydesigner]

Revenge affairs...are just like all other affairs...poor coping skills at play.

 

You can't make your husband do anything or think anything.

 

It seems that you really want this marriage to work.

 

You need to really think about what you want. What is it? If it is something you require of your husband, all you can do is talk about it. If it doesn't work out, then what? That is for you to figure out.

 

We often read romanticized versions of love on the ow/om thread...its just not reality. Life is full of ebbs, its how we conduct ourselves through them, shows our strength. It also prepares us for the next.

 

You also seem stuck on your husbands healing. LET. IT. GO

 

For the bs side, there is no grand moment, no series of words, no one action...that takes away the pain. Its only processing it, putting it where it belongs....back on the offender..and reclaiming ourselves.

 

Absolutely. That is exactly what played into my RA. I am still working on my coping skills. Then after discovering myself to be in false R with WH I attempted suicide and started cutting. It was like one coping skill had replaced another. I had no idea how bad they were, but looking back my coping skills had always been bad. I am learning new ways to cope, healthier ways.

[katielee]

"YOU SAYING THAT YOUR BH/WH WAS WRONG TO HAVE A REVENGE AFFAIR COMES ACROSS AS THE SAME AS A WW BLAMING HER AFFAIR ON HER BH BECAUSE THE MARRIAGE WAS BAD DUE THE BH NOT BEING A GOOD HUSBAND."

 

I get it. and I've never said that. Always maintained it was all on me.

 

Am I preoccupied with his healing? Well, I need to know if I'm safe in this relationship. I was in the fog for about two months - I'm sure excrutiating for him. Then I got to work. Read, IC, articles. And being I told him the truth to this and other bumps we've had in the road he says he knows I will tell him the truth.

He sees me working actively on this and not shying away from tough stuff.

I know nothing about his affairs I haven't discovered by myself. This is difficult then, to know if he can be trusted and if I am safe. That's probably why I wonder if he is healing.

I want to be safe.

[Zenstudent]

Almost everybody want safety in their relationships. How is he supposed to know, that you are safe to be with? You've realized yourself how hard it is to feel safe after a major betrayal.

 

I still think you both need to work your way through this mess together realizing that none of you are safe persons to be with, mutually figuring out how to how to handle it. If you don't, you might as well go your separate ways sooner than later.

 

IMO; Life is too short for this kind of immature games.

[katielee]

zenstudent- I think this is exactly what we're trying to do.The cheating is done with. now what?

 

I'm just saying how hard it is to work through.....

[carhill]

OP, and I apologize if I missed something, could you rewind and characterize the length and state of the marriage *prior* to you having your PA? I ask this because we have a pretty wise member who unfortunately has not posted in your thread, who is a BH and recovered his M, and he often talks about foundation, meaning the bricks and mortar of the marriage *prior* to any A and/or the circumstances which impelled same.

 

Essentially, all else being equal, if the foundation is sound and healthy, then the chances for recovery are far greater. That said, healthy recovery takes time, often years, and the path is often tortuous.

 

I only have one similar anecdote to share, with the wife's PA now being about 11 years ago and the H's A being about five years ago, and it's only been in the last year or so that this couple, married 25 years next year, have shown some signs of recovering their foundation. I still see signs of slippage but, when approached, always recommend a competent counselor and to think it through. Most people probably don't care about such nuances but I do and have cared for them for many years, as the wife is like a daughter to me.

 

Marriage is a team effort. If the foundation of the team is strong, then the team can weather many incursions and failings and defeats. If other, other. That said, if you feel this is going nowhere and life is passing you by while embroiled in it, then, as our psychologist wisely opined, *you* have a decision to make. I wish you well in making it.

[katielee]

Carhill, that is great advice and what I needed to hear, that because this is so complicated, it will take us more time to recover.

The state of our marriage was solid before my PA. It was very child centered, and conflict avoidant. We had been married for 23 years without a fight! Not good! Just silent resentments building up. He did a lot of things that left me feeling emotionally abandoned. Yet, I consider these my own personal failings. He couldn't read my mind and I'm sure if I told him, he would have made a change. So I did the worst possible thing to get his attention. An epic failure on my part.

So now, I can't stay quiet because I don't want us to ever get to that point again.... But I don't see this conflict t avoidant change on his part....

[road]

"YOU SAYING THAT YOUR BH/WH WAS WRONG TO HAVE A REVENGE AFFAIR COMES ACROSS AS THE SAME AS A WW BLAMING HER AFFAIR ON HER BH BECAUSE THE MARRIAGE WAS BAD DUE THE BH NOT BEING A GOOD HUSBAND."

 

I get it. and I've never said that. Always maintained it was all on me.

 

Am I preoccupied with his healing? Well, I need to know if I'm safe in this relationship. I was in the fog for about two months - I'm sure excrutiating for him. Then I got to work. Read, IC, articles. And being I told him the truth to this and other bumps we've had in the road he says he knows I will tell him the truth.

He sees me working actively on this and not shying away from tough stuff.

I know nothing about his affairs I haven't discovered by myself. This is difficult then, to know if he can be trusted and if I am safe. That's probably why I wonder if he is healing.

I want to be safe.

 

 

Your BH/WH has to do the work required as a WS just as you are.

[Deeplydisturbed]

yes we are in MC.. I have forgiven the first one but not the second. But I didn't deserve either of them, no matter what I did. Nor did he. I would have RATHER he divorced me than have affairs.

I shouldn't have to forgive simply because he did.... or said he did.

 

I'm not sure you understand how forgiveness works. If you don't think you deserved either of them then you had a choice. Besides, if you think you were wrong in the first place, he's the victim. You don't get to decide what the victim does in his weak state of emotions. I don't think having an affair in response was a good idea but that's his decision. Its like saying that you committed a crime but you don't deserve the punishment. In relationships, your punishment is not written in stone or determined by consulting you. Sometimes your partner will choose to leave you. Other times, he might choose to stay with you because of his own selfish reasons but do things which you may not like. Again, you're free to leave but I'm not sure why you feel so entitled after being the one who made the mistake first.

[katielee]

Well Deeply, you just advocated that having an affair under some circumstances, is ok.

Forgiveness- accepting you can't change the past and not seeking revenge for those who have hurt you. Using your logic, I'm owed an affair. Not gonna happen. I'll not "act out" as punishment for something my husband did that hurt me.

The games are done. There needs to be mature, healthy

Decisions made from now on...

[velvette]

"YOU SAYING THAT YOUR BH/WH WAS WRONG TO HAVE A REVENGE AFFAIR COMES ACROSS AS THE SAME AS A WW BLAMING HER AFFAIR ON HER BH BECAUSE THE MARRIAGE WAS BAD DUE THE BH NOT BEING A GOOD HUSBAND."

 

I get it. and I've never said that. Always maintained it was all on me.

 

Am I preoccupied with his healing? Well, I need to know if I'm safe in this relationship. I was in the fog for about two months - I'm sure excrutiating for him. Then I got to work. Read, IC, articles. And being I told him the truth to this and other bumps we've had in the road he says he knows I will tell him the truth.

He sees me working actively on this and not shying away from tough stuff.

I know nothing about his affairs I haven't discovered by myself. This is difficult then, to know if he can be trusted and if I am safe. That's probably why I wonder if he is healing.

I want to be safe.

 

That's a reasonable expectation in any M. Have you identified what you need to feel safe, told your H and outlined what you need him to do to allow you to feel safe?

[harrybrown]

Do you think that you will ever feel ok in this marriage? Are you and your husband both working hard now to help each other? There is anger and pain in your marriage. Do you have children still at home? If by working together you can get some decrease in the pain, that may be worth it to stay together for some time. Are both of you in NC with the affair partners and out of the affair fog?

[katielee]

Do you think that you will ever feel ok in this marriage? I THINK I'LL FEEL OK, NEVER TRUST HIM ALL THE WAY, AND I WILL NEVER SEE HIM THE SAME WAY AGAIN... BUT MAYBE THIS IS "GOOD ENOUGH."

 

Are you and your husband both working hard now to help each other? I THINK SO BUT HE WOULD RATHER NOT SPEAK OF THE AFFAIRS.

 

There is anger and pain in your marriage. Do you have children still at home?NO, ALL GROWN

 

If by working together you can get some decrease in the pain, that may be worth it to stay together for some time. Are both of you in NC with the affair partners and out of the affair fog? YES BUT HE WORKS IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO HIS 1ST AP. HE SEES HER CAR OCCASIONALLY.