Cheating husband won't sign a postnup

[ChooseTruth]

He's a big baby who wants it all.

 

The post nuptial is a sign of faith and commitment. If he was truly remorseful and invested in your marriage, he'd do anything to demonstrate that.

 

Divorce him. He will go back to doing whatever he wants when this blows over and you'll never trust him again.

 

You called his bluff and he caved but then he called yours and you caved right back. That's not compromise, that's fear.

 

Fear, on both your parts, does not make a successful marriage.

This echoes what everyone told me, over and over and over again. But I do understand about trying everything before giving in. Unfortunately, the advice above is probably correct. It's just not something you want to do unless you've experience betrayal and failed reconciliation before. What are his ideas about rebuilding trust? What has he actually done?

[Red Wolverine]

This echoes what everyone told me, over and over and over again. But I do understand about trying everything before giving in. Unfortunately, the advice above is probably correct. It's just not something you want to do unless you've experience betrayal and failed reconciliation before. What are his ideas about rebuilding trust? What has he actually done?

 

Here's the problem with betrayal and failed reconciliation....

 

You discover a betrayal. Doesn't have to be infidelity, any betrayal will do. You're angry, hurt, and confused. You don't want to give up and try everything to reconcile.

 

HOW it's done and the level of equal commitment is key. When and if you discover it failed because they commitment was one-sided, you've now lost self-respect if you actually knew the commitment wasn't there when you started.

 

Nothing in the OPs story tells me her husband has a commitment to anything other himself. Any attempts at reconciliation will only take more from the OP.

 

Divorce is the only answer.

[vera345]

He is helping more around the house, spends more time with baby, trying to have conversations with me about different things make me laugh.

He cooks, cleans, and doesn't ask me questions about my feelings.

He says that it will take time.

That's about all that he does.

[GorillaTheater]

He is helping more around the house, spends more time with baby, trying to have conversations with me about different things make me laugh.

He cooks, cleans, and doesn't ask me questions about my feelings.

He says that it will take time.

That's about all that he does.

 

I can't help but think that you're not giving us information so much as trying to convince yourself to stick with this guy, post-nuptial or not.

[vera345]

I spent 10 years with him and I said from the beginning that I still love him.

I am not trying to convince myself to stay, I am just trying to mAke a right decision and its a hard decision. I don't want to look back later and think that I gave up on my marriage easily. This is my first marriage we have a child together and I thought we will be together forever.

I am trying to find out his real feelings and I am afraid that you all are right and I am trying to avoid obvious.

I am very confused right now and want to believe that he loved me. But I can't ignore what he told me too. I will think about everything for couple days and decide then. I already asked him to move out to give me time to think, and he agreed to do it.

I can face divorce and will not live a lie.

[knitwit]

I spent 10 years with him and I said from the beginning that I still love him.

I am not trying to convince myself to stay, I am just trying to mAke a right decision and its a hard decision. I don't want to look back later and think that I gave up on my marriage easily. This is my first marriage we have a child together and I thought we will be together forever.

I am trying to find out his real feelings and I am afraid that you all are right and I am trying to avoid obvious.

I am very confused right now and want to believe that he loved me. But I can't ignore what he told me too. I will think about everything for couple days and decide then. I already asked him to move out to give me time to think, and he agreed to do it.

I can face divorce and will not live a lie.

 

Just as a note, most of the people who posted against the post-nup are or were cheating on their spouse, or are or were the adultery partner. They have their own reasoning behind their posts, but I thought you might want to know that background.

 

There are marriages that overcome infidelity. I think "Surviving an Affair" is a good book with a workable plan. There are posters here who have done pulled it off, too. All hope isn't lost! But, I do you think you have to strong to pull it off. You sound pretty strong (even if you don't feel it right now.)

 

You sound like someone who can do a lot of independent research- there is tons of info about affairs- how they happen, how to work through it, how to know when it's a lost cause. If you start, you'll learn about Gaslighting.

 

Gaslighting sometimes looks like this:

 

"He says me working in a legal field is trying to fix my marriage with legal documents wouldn't work."

 

Actually, you are not trying to fix you marriage with legal documents. You are trying to get back a sense of security that he won't cheat again.

 

As to the poster who insists that there is nothing in it for him if he signs a post-nup, well, that is only true if the WS:

-doesn't value being married to the OP,

-doesn't value having an intact family with the mother of his child and getting to live on a daily basis with his child, and

-doesn't value the security offered in the post-nup that HE gets the house if she cheats.

 

Otherwise, if the husband values any of those things, signing the post-nup is a winner's move, no questions asked. After all, it is only about cheating- if neither cheats, it doesn't apply. If one spouse wants out, s/he can divorce and still not have the post-nup apply.

 

Gaslighting: "You are trying to manipulate me!"

 

The real issue: is he willing to commit, in a way that has very clear consequence, that he will not cheat again? The pre-nup is about setting up conditions so that you can begin to have a reasonable assurance that he truly commits to not doing this to you ever again.

 

I think most couples who survived infidelity in their marriages had a Betrayed spouse who laid down very strong boundaries. At least, for betrayed women, it seems that either A. The husband was immediately very remorseful and usually confessed or, more often B. the betrayed wife laid down strong boundaries. Spark comes to mind here- she kicked her husband out a few times, let him know that she loved him but wasn't going to tolerate cheating.

 

I think it is good that you've let him know that divorce is on the table. In the meantime, what is he going to do to prove to you that he can be a safe bet? What is he doing to demonstrate to you that he can be trustworthy? Does he acknowledge that he cheated, that he egregiously hurt you?

 

Actions are the indicator of whether or not your husband is on the mend or on his way out.

 

I think it is good to let him know that you love him, you would prefer to stay together, and you are willing to do the work to have a great marriage with him. First, though, he has to demonstrate to you that he will not cheat on you again, and that he is committed to saving the marriage, and making it great.

 

Keep that bar high. If he makes it, then you will have a spouse who is willing to do the work to have a great marriage. If he isn't, then you've lost a spouse who was willing to harm you and your family, and you will then be free to live without that kind of continual hurt.

 

Either way, know that you will be OK. Hang in there!

[vera345]

Knitwit I really appreciate your post. I am going to buy this book tonight and read it.

My problem is that I don't know his true feelings, he did tell me that he wants his family and he still love me but he also told me about breaking up with ow because of stress and finances.

I told him that I really don't know what believe anymore. And I don't understand what we need to do to rebuild the trust back.

I will read a lot and decide what to do next

[Betterthanthis13]

He flat out told you he loves two women and that is what he wants.

 

You counter by giving him a choice between monogamous marriage signed with an additional contract, or split up.

 

He is resisting/ holding out for you to give in and stay under his conditions.

 

He doesn't want to sign it. He wants to be free to pursue other women at will.

 

The only choice that needs to be made is if you will consent to his new definition of the marriage as an open marriage, or you leave it. If you have any legal background at all, you know these are your choices. He is not interested in your contract.

 

 

I'm sorry if I sound harsh- and I am very sorry for your pain and how you must feel. But you don't have a hand to play. He might change his mind if you leave and don't look back. That happens quite often. He might not even know what he really wants. But right now, you trying to get him to sign this contract is futile and counterproductive.

[vera345]

He stopped all contacts with ow 2 weeks ago and told me that he wants to work on saving his marriage. I don't know why you made conclusion that he wanted an open marriage this was never an option.

But he is unwilling to sign a postnuptial.

[Coolit]

If my H had wanted me to sign a post-nup, I wouldn't have hesitated. A lot of marriages end and infidelity is often the reason... Losing everything doesn't matter to me. My family does and i want to move past my stupidity as quickly as possible.

 

I keep seeing you repeat why he broke it off with OW. "stress and finances". Is it possible that that actually translates to "she didn't want me after all". xMM and I enjoyed each other and we did so with the security of our marriages. Perhaps OW didn't want more and when it became possible she shut it down. I hate casting more doubt in your mind but I keep thinking that. I'd comtact the OW. Ask her for her story. An line up with your H. But if there is any way you can do that without giving your H a head start that would be good.

[Betterthanthis13]

He stopped all contacts with ow 2 weeks ago and told me that he wants to work on saving his marriage. I don't know why you made conclusion that he wanted an open marriage this was never an option.

But he is unwilling to sign a postnuptial.

 

It got under my skin that he told you he loves two women. But he hasn't had a PA? It seems like a cry for help.

 

And his reasons for not wanting to sign the post-nup are weak.

It should be a no brainer for a repentant WS. Perhaps even their suggestion?

 

Maybe I'm being too analytical- but I don't think the real issue is being addressed, and I think he is feeling pressured to do the right thing- and you have red flags galore but prefer control over understanding, due to the fact that you are truly frightened and hurt and don't know what to do.

 

I could be wrong.

[oldshirt]

I am not a cheater and I would not sign it either. I agree that it is manipulation on HER part. Its rediculous and it is not effective in reestablishing trust or prote tion against infidelity. Its most likely not even enforcable in court.

 

There are more effective ways to reestablish trust and reconcile a relationship ie therapy, counseling, communication, transparency etc etc.

 

Even though I am not a cheater, I would vies it as her husband did, in that it was just a cold, cal ulating way of trying to grab assets without regard to actually try to salvage the marriage or address the actual issues in the marriage.

 

I would actually consider one more step closer to divorce too but would rather let my lawyers advocate for my rights and let the courts decide how property and finances will be divided up.

 

The settlements of marital property is up for the courts to decide. Not pissed off money-grabbing spouses via postnups after their feelings have been hurt.

 

This is why we have lawyers, judges and courts in the first place. That is because pissed off people come up with crazy ideas when they've been wronged.

[tbf]

Pre or post-nups signed under coercion have far less likelihood of standing up in court.

[Betterthanthis13]

Except he may not think he "cheated" either. I don't know that seems a bit questionable in this situation. Aren't there allowable fantasies in a relationshiop as long as they aren't acted on? Isnt' that considered healthy?

 

I don't think his refusal to sign it means anything other than he feels like she is trying to manipulate him and he is bucking that as I think most adults would. I can see his side of it very clearly but am having a lot of trouble seeing her side of it as to why it would make her think she can control his actions simply because he signed something? Not to mention I 'm in a greement with everyone else it wouldn't even be able to be enforced and I think she knows that deep down. So just excpecting him to sign it to appease her seems silly to me because it's such an empty action then yet seems like she would be comforted by it?

 

I don't know, I don't get it . I feel like she's trying to manipulate another adult. She has choices he responded and she can stay or leave and yet she's doing this dance of trying to force him to sign things? Why not just leave? I think the post was right about he answered her and now she's balking at her side of it. When you force someone into a corner don't be surprised they fight back and act all hurt that you didn't get your way in what you were trying to force them to do. Now it's HER decision to leave or stay. Not continue to try to manipulate and force another adult into acting or doing a certain thing. ?

 

He said "I am in love with two women"

 

Did he say that because he wanted to hurt her?

[CarrieT]

At the beginning of this thread, I said that I thought he didn't love the OP enough...

 

After reading five pages of rationale from the OP, I don't think I would sign a post-nup either, based on what she is wanting. It feels like coercion and the more someone pushes me to do something that just doesn't feel right, the more inclined I would become to not do anything close to it.

 

Now I am in the process of getting married and I offered to sign a pre-nup because my fiance was financially taken to the cleaners by his ex-wife and I wanted to prove that I was not materialistic in that regard. I have no problem with a pre-nup that involves assets. But I do have a problem being dictated to in regards to coupling assets with emotions.

 

I do not believe it is not something that the two disparate concepts should be bound together within the confines of a legal document insofar as a relationship is concerned.

[CarrieT]

I do not believe it is not something that the two disparate concepts should be bound together within the confines of a legal document insofar as a relationship is concerned.

 

Grammar police...

 

I should have said:

 

I do not believe that two disparate concepts like emotions and finances should be bound together within the confines of a legal document defining a relationship.

[knitwit]

OK, so for kicks, I just made the following proposition to my DH: Would be he willing to go with me to sign a post-nup tomorrow? It would say that if one of us cheated, the other would get the house.

 

He would sign this. I would sign this. This is a no-brainer. It's not even something to marginally get upset about. We have already vowed to be faithful to each other. We have no plans to cheat, this is just not a big deal.

 

Neither of us have cheated. His ex-wife cheated on him. My husband actually liked the idea of the post-nup!

 

I would be highly skeptical of the intention of someone who has cheated on me, but then refused to sign a post-nup saying that if a spouse cheated the other spouse would get [Name your Item Here].

 

I would take that refusal as one or both of these:

1. a demonstration that they don't believe they will stay faithful.

2. a demonstration that their "values" for "fairness" are strong when it comes to his well-being, and that his own well-being is continuing to rule over concerns for your well-being.

 

I might, maybe, would be willing to negotiate, but I would want to know what his plan was to otherwise demonstrate his intentions and his willingness to provide some just compensation. And the answer would have to be significant for it to be seriously considered.

 

I don't have experience with marital infidelity, but I do have experience when it comes to S/Os with addiction. They are different creatures, but I am pretty sure they are in the same family.

 

The one big thing I learned was to watch Actions. Forget the words- they have already shown they will lie to you, anyway. When someone is showing you that they will not make things right, believe it. It is the best predictor of a given outcome.

 

 

The ironic thing is, if he doesn't sign, and you chose to divorce, what are the chances of him losing the house, anyway?

[knitwit]

Grammar police...

 

I should have said:

 

I do not believe that two disparate concepts like emotions and finances should be bound together within the confines of a legal document defining a relationship.

 

I don't know, I think marriage itself is a legal institution or entity that "binds" emotions and finances, although in the US this does vary by state. States that still have Fault divorces are pretty clear that care, fidelity, and finances are bound together in marriage, and there are financial implications in divorce when care, abandonment, intimacy etc are not provided in marriage.

 

Also, I think saying "If I cheat, you get the house; if you cheat, I guess the house" is really saying anything about emotions. It is action-based.

[Betterthanthis13]

I have to admit I wonder if she isn't over reacting since it is a woman so far away? I hate to say that because I know she is hurt, but it seems like talking to someone and having a fantasy is sort of the same thing in this situation and I think some fantasies are healthy if never acted on. He didn't act on it, he wasn't flying ot see her or vice versa, and probably never intended to it doesn't sound like. I don't know it's a hard line to see in this situation I think.

 

I am not really worried about his feelings about the far away woman or his lack of physical contact with her- my concern was he *thought* he was in love with two women. Why did he think that? What does he really want? What does she really want? Is she happy? Why is she so happy if he isn't? Why are they in this marriage? These types of questions need to be investigated before any action is even considered. Assuming anything one way or the other is not in her best interest. They are out of sync- no contract can solve that. What is he doing to get back in sync with her? How did they fall out? Can they be happy together? How? Is that what they both want?

[vera345]

I agreed to stop asking him for the post-nup. we took it off the table.

 

Now I am trying to decide what to do next. I read the book "Surviving Affair", however I afraid that it doesn't fit my personality and I need to find some different way. I understood steps that were recommended and will use some of them. But while I was reading it, I couldn't believe that that poor guy took so much crap from his wife. I would walk away after she moved in with her lover. He waited, then the wife expressed absolutely no remorse, no apology, and he worked so hard on winning her back. I would not be able to do it emotionally.

 

He wants to work on the marriage, go to counseling, and tells me that he loves me. The problem is that he said too many hurtful things and I don't know if I can believe him. I asked him to move out to let me think about everything and he is looking for an apartment and sleeps in his car yesterday and today. He doesn't want to move and tells me that if we want to work on our marriage we should stay together, not separate. But then he criticized me for my anger.

he told me he wont do it anymore.

 

Do you think separation will help us if I don't believe him when he is saying that he loves me? I don't believe him b/c of his comment on Stress and finances causing him to break up with OW.

Or we should live together and do a lot of counseling?

 

I am not ready to divorce him yet, I want to believe that he loves me but have my doubts.

[CarrieT]

Do you think separation will help us if I don't believe him when he is saying that he loves me?

I have never been convinced that just love is all that is needed for a successful relationship. I am still friends with most of my Ex's for a reason = there was enough love, but not enough OTHER factors that are important for a successful relationship...

 

Ironically, my Ex from 20 years ago came over and had dinner with my fiance and I last evening. There is still great regard, caring, and affection and - dare I say it? - love; but there was never enough mutual respect and communication to work on being together for decades. It was great to see him and reflect upon the road not traveled.

 

Or we should live together and do a lot of counseling?

That will be up to the both of you and what you ultimately want for your lives and your marriage. It is obvious it will take work, but are you BOTH willing to take the steps necessary?

[Betterthanthis13]

I agreed to stop asking him for the post-nup. we took it off the table.

 

Now I am trying to decide what to do next. I read the book "Surviving Affair", however I afraid that it doesn't fit my personality and I need to find some different way. I understood steps that were recommended and will use some of them. But while I was reading it, I couldn't believe that that poor guy took so much crap from his wife. I would walk away after she moved in with her lover. He waited, then the wife expressed absolutely no remorse, no apology, and he worked so hard on winning her back. I would not be able to do it emotionally.

 

He wants to work on the marriage, go to counseling, and tells me that he loves me. The problem is that he said too many hurtful things and I don't know if I can believe him. I asked him to move out to let me think about everything and he is looking for an apartment and sleeps in his car yesterday and today. He doesn't want to move and tells me that if we want to work on our marriage we should stay together, not separate. But then he criticized me for my anger.

he told me he wont do it anymore.

 

Do you think separation will help us if I don't believe him when he is saying that he loves me? I don't believe him b/c of his comment on Stress and finances causing him to break up with OW.

Or we should live together and do a lot of counseling?

 

I am not ready to divorce him yet, I want to believe that he loves me but have my doubts.

 

He says he loves you- but you have doubts- did you have doubts before the A?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I really think its interesting the advice you have been getting from the folks who are actively in affairs, or who have current relationships born of affairs..I don't remember who mentioned it but it is true.

 

I think you have every right to be upset with the emotional affair your husband had with that AP including all the future plans and I love yous. (Not just harmless fantasy, who ever said that). Emotional affairs are as devastating as sexual ones.

 

He does not seem to understand the impact of his affair or especially of those words on you...have you discussed it? He seems to regret the hasty announcement of leaving you, he seems to be second guessing that.

 

I agree, at this point....how could you ever believe him? Cheaters lie...but apparently according to this thread they don't like to be held accountable for fixing the damage. I guess you are just supposed to give the trust cause he said he was sorry?? Did he actually SAY he was sorry?

 

I do not believe asking for some tangible evidence that he is prepared to commit to helping you heal is manipulation. Even if post nups are generally un-enforcable.

 

So what is he prepared to do to help you heal? Do the dishes? Aw that's nice.

 

How about sending a no contact letter to the AP? How about transparency? What are his actions?

 

I think he has yet to wake up to the reality of what he did.

 

Good luck.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Ok...I realized I sound really hostile, and I am not at all.

 

I believe right now your husband is in damage control.

 

Sleeping in the car, telling you he will do counseling, he wants the marriage etc.

 

But actions speak louder than words. And his actions show his not remorseful...he is in damage control.

 

Until he can admit, to himself, what happened. And find a way to help you build trust...counseling is a waste, especially marriage counseling.

 

He's a homeless guy not living with his child, no girlfriend and his wife is thinking of divorcing him...

 

No I wouldn't trust his words...not now.

[Betterthanthis13]

Ok...I realized I sound really hostile, and I am not at all.

 

I believe right now your husband is in damage control.

 

Sleeping in the car, telling you he will do counseling, he wants the marriage etc.

 

But actions speak louder than words. And his actions show his not remorseful...he is in damage control.

 

Until he can admit, to himself, what happened. And find a way to help you build trust...counseling is a waste, especially marriage counseling.

 

He's a homeless guy not living with his child, no girlfriend and his wife is thinking of divorcing him...

 

No I wouldn't trust his words...not now.

 

 

Bolded can't be repeated enough times