Split Self Affair

[rumbleseat]

I'm agnostic, and I feel guilt when I've done something that hurts someone else. I would feel gulty if I knew that my actions and choices were causing pain to someone els,e especially if they were someone who really had done nothing that was deserving of that kind of pain.

 

In my experience acting without guilt is nothing to be proud of, nor is it something to aspire to. Guilt serves a very useful and necessary purpose. It helps to keep us form harming others. Taken to the extreme, one can completely lose touch with reality.

 

This is not to say that a person should stay in a marriage where they are not happy simply because they feel guilty about leaving. What it does mean is that if a perosn feels that they need to have another relationship "find themselves and what makes them happy " then by all means, do so. The only caveat is that they need to end the marriage first, or, at the very least, talk to ones spouse and let them decide what they want to do.

 

Anything else is cowardice. Changing the name doesn't turn a skunk cabbage into a rose. All it means is that the amrried person is too frightened to leave the marriage in case they aren't happy or the affair doesn't work out. If they are truly unhappy, and having an affair suddenly makes them realize that, then they will leave. If they don't, there really is no complex psychobabble explanation for it other than they are just plain chicken.

[Moper]

How do you judge actions committed by people without judging the people that committed the actions?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Easy. "What you did was bad, but it doesn't make you a bad person."

[rumbleseat]

All roads lead to Rome.

 

Why fight the Split Self theory if it helps participants in EMRs deal with their issues? I don't think anyone participating in this thread promotes EMRs. We are all looking for a solution.

 

I was an OW, sure, but I was an OW under protest. I never wanted the EMR. I did my best to support my fMM during the EMR so he would deal with his issues and be able to arrive at a place where he could have one relationship only, be it the marriage or the EMR.

 

If he had let the guilt overrun him at Dday, he would have stayed married even though it would have been contradictory to his own emotional needs. Now he has instead taken responsibility for his actions and is suffering the consequences from them. He is going to counseling and is dealing with his issues instead of burying them within him like he always used to do.

 

 

 

you make it all sound neat and tidy, but I highly suspect the reality of this type of situation is very , very different.

 

Somewhere a long time ago, I once heard a story similar to yours by someone. For the sake of the story, I'll call them Jay.

 

They waited year after year, making every excuse possible for the married person's behavior. No matter how hurtful it was, no matter how much better Jay deserved, nothing really changed. It was almost as if they believed that if they just put up with enough, endured enough, was always the perfect "other person", the affair partner would choose them

 

The saddest part of this is that they convinced themselves that all of this was okay, that there were reasons for the affair partner's behavior, and if they just kept holding on, things would chnage. They never really did.

 

I always wondered if, in the moments when they are all alone and they have to face reality, Jay realizes that all those years have gone by that could have been much better spent with someone who brought only joy, who didn't need to have some "explanation" to rationalize their behavior so that cruelty could be turned into love.

 

Jay deserves better, but refuses to believe that.

[Mr. Lucky]

Easy. "What you did was bad, but it doesn't make you a bad person."

Disingenuous. Doesn't some accumulation of bad things done make you a bad person? And isn't the reverse true? Aren't there those we judge as good people based on the sum of their actions?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Moper]

Disingenuous. Doesn't some accumulation of bad things done make you a bad person? And isn't the reverse true? Aren't there those we judge as good people based on the sum of their actions?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Why do you feel qualified to be that judge? Why is it your place? Who appointed you? Being non-judgmental, as best you can, is not disingenuous.

[Mr. Lucky]

Why do you feel qualified to be that judge? Why is it your place? Who appointed you? Being non-judgmental, as best you can, is not disingenuous.

Ah, well. Since we're getting nowhere, I guess I'll follow Owl's lead (I've always found him to be one of the voices of reason on here, but perhaps that's me judging him ) and bow out.

 

You seem to feel your actions have no consequences and that makes me feel sorry for the people around you, with special empathy reserved for those closest. I can only assume you had your fingers crossed whilst reciting your wedding vows...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Steadfast]

Why do you feel qualified to be that judge? Why is it your place? Who appointed you? Being non-judgmental, as best you can, is not disingenuous.

 

There are those who live, work, and even post within the confines of reality. And there are those who, as circumstance (or wish) dictates, skirt around it with entitlement driven concepts and ideas.

 

The OP is one of those people.

 

For those who genuinely wish to help, sound reason and sensibility are critical when advancing applicable advice to the conflicted. Surely there isn't one of us who didn't feel the pull of a 'split-self' personality. It's so common everyone can relate. Who hasn't acted one way around one group of people, another way around another group? Who doesn't apply their work behavior while dressing in their work clothes? Who of us doesn't have secret thoughts and desires? This isn't a 'concept' it's boringly common.

 

Simply put, those who write "who are you to judge?' are so radically hypocritical it's nauseating. Good judgement is critical to our physical or mental health. Laws and guidelines are set in place to allow the safe passage of those who exercise good judgement while limiting or revoking the freedom of those who do not. Those who constantly point out the failings of 'judgmental' people are too weak, stupid or stubborn to realize that love, freedom and success is built upon predetermined 'judgement'.

 

But that doesn't apply here. In this context. Or so we're told.

[Anna-Belle]

I think we all suffer from cognitive dissonance when our loved one engages in an EMR, whether we are the OW/OM or the BS. And we find different ways to close the gap between our mind and our heart. Ways that resonate with our belief systems, our way of looking at the world.

 

Some judge the actions of the WS and determine them bad. Some judge the WS and determine he/she is a bad person. Some try to understand what made their loved one act in a very unfamiliar way. Some look only at the EMR itself as being the root of the problem. Some go back and look at FOO issues. We are all just trying to find a way to look at a difficult situation which resonates with how we view the world.

 

The same is true for the WS. He/she needs to find a way to process the fact that they participated in an EMR. Some beat themselves up. Some try to look deeper within. Some sweep it under the rug. Some might even feel like they are great Don Juans who can have multiple love relationships.

 

I think this is the reason it is hard for us posters with different perspectives to meet. It goes way down to how we view the world, to our belief systems. We have touched on some of the issues in this thread: Is guilt a factor that moves us forward or keeps us stuck? Is judging a person helpful? Is trying to understand the factors behind something merely an attempt at finding an excuse? We are looking at the same issues but through different lenses. But ultimately I think all of us, or at least most of us, WS, BS and OW/OM alike, wish there were no affairs. I certainly do. But the world isn't simple like that.

[rumbleseat]

I think we all suffer from cognitive dissonance when our loved one engages in an EMR, whether we are the OW/OM or the BS. And we find different ways to close the gap between our mind and our heart. Ways that resonate with our belief systems, our way of looking at the world.

 

Some judge the actions of the WS and determine them bad. Some judge the WS and determine he/she is a bad person. Some try to understand what made their loved one act in a very unfamiliar way. Some look only at the EMR itself as being the root of the problem. Some go back and look at FOO issues. We are all just trying to find a way to look at a difficult situation which resonates with how we view the world.

 

The same is true for the WS. He/she needs to find a way to process the fact that they participated in an EMR. Some beat themselves up. Some try to look deeper within. Some sweep it under the rug. Some might even feel like they are great Don Juans who can have multiple love relationships.

 

I think this is the reason it is hard for us posters with different perspectives to meet. It goes way down to how we view the world, to our belief systems. We have touched on some of the issues in this thread: Is guilt a factor that moves us forward or keeps us stuck? Is judging a person helpful? Is trying to understand the factors behind something merely an attempt at finding an excuse? We are looking at the same issues but through different lenses. But ultimately I think all of us, or at least most of us, WS, BS and OW/OM alike, wish there were no affairs. I certainly do. But the world isn't simple like that.

 

 

For those who are willing to examine their own behaviour and not seek to find excuses , there is a solution that is very simple and 100% guaranteed to prevent the heartache caused by infidelity.

 

It's to not get involved in an affair!

It's to take responsibility for your own actions.

 

All this talk of split self etc. reminds me of the spiel of a snake oil salesman. It may sound great, like the answer to all your problems, but there's really nothing to it.

[janedoe67]

For those who are willing to examine their own behaviour and not seek to find excuses , there is a solution that is very simple and 100% guaranteed to prevent the heartache caused by infidelity.

 

It's to not get involved in an affair!

It's to take responsibility for your own actions.

 

All this talk of split self etc. reminds me of the spiel of a snake oil salesman. It may sound great, like the answer to all your problems, but there's really nothing to it.

 

I agree with this. That said, from my childhood until the age of around 36 I was a kind, faithful, moral, sincere, good person...many of these as a wife to a husband with serious issues.

 

Then I allowed my own resentment and anger to fester. I became self-absorbed. And I may very bad conscious choices. I made the choice to betray my marriage vows in one of the most fundamental of ways by having an affair. I ended it, wrestled with the reality of the terrible thing I had done, confessed, had real remorse, and changed, was transparent, focused on my husband. We recovered from the affair.

 

Sadly, I missed a couple of key ingredients. First, our marriage did not change from its pre_A state. Oh, I did try, but it takes two people to change a marriage that it took two people to damage. And instead of sticking to the choice I made to leave.....when he begged, I stayed, and when there was still no change, I allowed my own hurt and anger to become the focus again.

 

I do not know how to reconcile that...because it was wrong. Period. End of story. No matter what kind of husband he chose to be or not be....I am an autonomous human with choice. So cheating is 100% on me. THIS time around instead of putting a check box band aid on the gaping wound, I have done the outward work AND am doing the inside work (because contrary to what shallow behaviorists think, that DOES make a difference).

 

So the question is:

 

For 44 out of 47 years of my life, was I faking being a person of some moral value, and were those 3 years the "real" me all along....or is it possible that someone who really ISN'T some lost cause sociopath to make some crappy choices and recover?

 

I can understand that for a BS who wants to hold on to the anger the idea of all who cheat having some secret "gene of evil" is appealing.

 

Just not sure I logically buy it.

 

That said, split-self psychobabble seems to me a way to put a PC spin on avoiding responsibility.

[rumbleseat]

I agree with this. That said, from my childhood until the age of around 36 I was a kind, faithful, moral, sincere, good person...many of these as a wife to a husband with serious issues.

 

Then I allowed my own resentment and anger to fester. I became self-absorbed. And I may very bad conscious choices. I made the choice to betray my marriage vows in one of the most fundamental of ways by having an affair. I ended it, wrestled with the reality of the terrible thing I had done, confessed, had real remorse, and changed, was transparent, focused on my husband. We recovered from the affair.

 

Sadly, I missed a couple of key ingredients. First, our marriage did not change from its pre_A state. Oh, I did try, but it takes two people to change a marriage that it took two people to damage. And instead of sticking to the choice I made to leave.....when he begged, I stayed, and when there was still no change, I allowed my own hurt and anger to become the focus again.

 

I do not know how to reconcile that...because it was wrong. Period. End of story. No matter what kind of husband he chose to be or not be....I am an autonomous human with choice. So cheating is 100% on me. THIS time around instead of putting a check box band aid on the gaping wound, I have done the outward work AND am doing the inside work (because contrary to what shallow behaviorists think, that DOES make a difference).

 

So the question is:

 

For 44 out of 47 years of my life, was I faking being a person of some moral value, and were those 3 years the "real" me all along....or is it possible that someone who really ISN'T some lost cause sociopath to make some crappy choices and recover?

 

I can understand that for a BS who wants to hold on to the anger the idea of all who cheat having some secret "gene of evil" is appealing.

 

Just not sure I logically buy it.

 

That said, split-self psychobabble seems to me a way to put a PC spin on avoiding responsibility.

 

 

You were conflicted, which is a state that every human being feels at some point in their life.

 

You were conflicted and made some poor choices. It's doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you human, same as me.

 

Split self is, like I said, snake oil. It's an attempt to put a label on human behaviour. Al this does is keep the money rolling in to the therapists coffers, yet it offers no real solutions, probably because there aren't any.

 

How does one find a solution for the human condition?

[Moper]

One doesn't find a solution to the human condition. That is an unrealistic goal.

 

Nor does any decent person aspire to judging people who share their troubles on an internet board. I have done a fair amount of research and have found, mostly, that my troubles are not at all unusual. In fact I am downright pathetic and boring but fortunately for me I am wise enough to know, at least in my head, that there is no point in wallowing in guilt and shame. One who is in my shoes must forgive him or her self. An A is wrong. An A is a.mistake. An A is bad judgment but bad judgment is something one does when one is depressed.

 

Depression is real. Denial of depression is pathological and toxic. One does not.overcome depression by force of one's character or by personal will. An A is like any other drug or self medication.

 

I stop short of saying it is a disease but it may very well be one. That said I am befuddled by the need to judge and condescend to people who come to LS to discuss their pain. Do you kick out the crutches from people with broken legs? Do you mock people who stutter.

 

How utterly pathetic to judge people who come here in pain. What is the point? For whose benefit is it?

 

I have found a lot of good information. I haven't spent a nickel for any of it but I would be more than happy to buy Emily Brown's work. It is the end all and be all of nothing but so what? I see nothing so far to question her motives, lest of all a desire to be paid for her ideas.

 

Picking on people on LS? There is an activity I question.

[waterwoman]

Depression is real. Denial of depression is pathological and toxic. One does not.overcome depression by force of one's character or by personal will. An A is like any other drug or self medication.

 

Have you sought medical help with your depression moper? I ask as one who has been a depressive for many years - on medication almost constantly since my middle child was born. I would personally never mock anyone suffering from depression - it's a dreadful thing and made worse by the fact that many people don't beleive it's a genuine condition. Having said all that I think the 'solution' you have found has to be one of the worst - my family have suffered from my condition at times over the years but I have never had an affair. H's affair has thrown everything up in the air and we are still seeing where the bits come down. It's a cruel thing to do to anyone.

[Owl]

I think you are on the wrong track.

 

I'm certainly not here to 'pick on people'. Nor am I here to judge other people...on the contrary, if you re-read my posts, you'll find that I felt that they should "judge themselves"...that they should do some soul-searching and find the right path by following their conscience.

 

I'm here to provide support and advice.

 

You'll find that not everyone agrees on what 'support' and 'advice' consist of...which is why they try to make clear what's acceptable and not acceptable in the 'terms of service'.

 

If you find that you belive that someone has violated that TOS...you should report it. If you don't like it, but don't feel that they've violated the TOS, your only other option is to ignore it, or to use the 'ignore feature' provided by the website.

[Moper]

You assume tbat I expressed anger, Owl. I did not. I could not care less.

 

My points were about tbe nature of depression and my meassage to people reading it was that empathy and humility are positive human attributes.

 

As fpr my own path, you really don't know what that path will be. No one should make any important life decisions when they are depressed. If you take one thing from my words, I suggest you understand that.

 

One must deal with their depression first and foremost and it is not a time for wallowing in guilt and shame.

[Owl]

You assume tbat I expressed anger, Owl. I did not. I could not care less.

 

My points were about tbe nature of depression and my meassage to people reading it was that empathy and humility are positive human attributes.

 

As fpr my own path, you really don't know what that path will be. No one should make any important life decisions when they are depressed. If you take one thing from my words, I suggest you understand that.

 

One must deal with their depression first and foremost and it is not a time for wallowing in guilt and shame.

 

I NEVER advocate "wallowing in guilt and shame". That's useless and pointless.

 

They should USE that "guilt and shame" as a motivational tool to change. As an alarm clock to know that they NEED to change.

 

Wallowing impliess sitting there doing nothing...which is never productive.

Edited August 19, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[rumbleseat]

You assume tbat I expressed anger, Owl. I did not. I could not care less.

 

My points were about tbe nature of depression and my meassage to people reading it was that empathy and humility are positive human attributes.

 

As fpr my own path, you really don't know what that path will be. No one should make any important life decisions when they are depressed. If you take one thing from my words, I suggest you understand that.

 

One must deal with their depression first and foremost and it is not a time for wallowing in guilt and shame.

 

Depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the rain, usually a disparity between serotonin, norephedrine (sp.?) etc. This is why medications like SRIs, tricyclics, etc. work, and therapy alone usually does not.

 

True depression is not this "split self "nonsense. Of course you lie it. It absolves you of any feeling fo wrongdoing, so you can go on your merry way.

 

A word to the wise, Moper. I would seriously look into the lives of those who tout "split self" as an excuse for an affair. Check into how long they have sat and waited for the MP to choose them. See how much bad treatment they have tolerated. Do some digging to find out if MP even exists or if he's just some sort of fantasy.

 

From what I understand, there may be some truths out there that would really open your eyes, and maybe be much more helpful than the snake oil you are swallowing because it tastes pleasant and is easy to choke down.

[Mr. Lucky]

One who is in my shoes must forgive him or her self.

Wouldn't forgiveness be more profoundly satisfying if it came from those around you, specifically those who have been most affected by your actions? If you were going to perform an emotional triage, you'd start with the most severely injured. And having spent the last several years having your proverbial cake and eating it too, I don't think it's you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[waterwoman]

Moper,are you getting treatment for your depression?

[Owl]

I am not here for 'support' and with all due respect I have more insight into my thoughts and feelings than you do. I am here to discuss things, like split-self or other ideas that may be of use to me. What are you here for?

 

I've answered that question previously in this thread.

 

If you're here to discuss things like this...then you probably shouldn't be surprised when people disagree with you...sometimes strongly.

 

And I apologize up front if I'm coming across a bit strong, it's just that you've posted several times now how you don't like the way many people have responded to your posts. As I've said, as long as no one violates TOS, its simply part of posting on a web forum. Expecting the site to change to suit you is probably an unrealistic goal.

[Moper]

And having spent the last several years having your proverbial cake and eating it too, I don't think it's you...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You are correct. That isn't me. I have spent the last 10 years or so stuffing my feelings, not cake eating, so I don't really know what you're talking about.

[Bittersweetie]

Broken legs and stuttering are not choices. Cheating is. I would venture to guess that no one on this board who has changed their lives for the better didn't face the daunting task of accepting that humility is critical to healing. You created this impasse, and the people who need to believe that outside forces might contribute to making hurtful decisions, support it.

 

As a fWS I agree with this. One of the hardest things I had to accept, and it took a lot of swallowing of pride, is that I was a crappy person who hurt someone very badly. That I was a person who took advantage of the trust of another to allow me to make my own selfish choices, because I "deserved" it. That was not a person who one strives to be...because no one wants to be the jerk, right?! But accepting that I WAS that person made me start on the path of NOT being that person, if that makes sense. I made the decision to start rebuilding my OWN integrity regardless of if my H and I reconciled because I NO LONGER wanted to be that person. I made choices moving forward based on the type of person I strived to be, irregardless of outside forces like depression (been there many times), unemployment, other stuff.

 

Before, when I was a WS, I probably would've agreed with the split-self theory. It would've made me feel better about myself. But now, based on my own experiences and growth, I don't. Thats JMO.

[Owl]

Question I should have asked a long time ago...

 

So what is the "official" recommended treatment or therapy for split-self?

 

What course of action do therapists recommend for their patient's who suffer from it? What do marriage counselors recommend based off this diagnosis?

[Moper]

Question I should have asked a long time ago...

 

So what is the "official" recommended treatment or therapy for split-self?

 

What course of action do therapists recommend for their patient's who suffer from it? What do marriage counselors recommend based off this diagnosis?

 

Hardly official, but from the blog entry I posted in the OP: Rebuilding from a Split-Self Affair takes much longer than other types of affairs because in this type of affair the the marital problems are much deeper and long-standing. The foundation of the relationship, from the beginning, was set on an external standard of 'doing the right thing' and not based on a strong foundation of trust, respect, nurturing, closeness and intimacy. The therapeutic objective will be to help the couple identify their individual emotional needs and then determine if they are then able to get their emotional needs met within the marriage. It's a very tall order. Chances of recovery are very slim simply because turning toward each other for emotional responsiveness is something that has never been present in the marriage from the very beginning. This couple will likely experience therapy as process that throws them wildy off-balance as the anchor of their old approaches to their marital disharmony (focusing externally) are challenged and ignored in therapy. They may alternate between attempts to stay connected to the comfortable and familiar marital angst (which, though dysfunctional, helps them to feel secure and safe because it is 'the old familiar' dynamic) as they begin to slowly make very cautious attempts to master new territory in which they explore closeness, sharing and addressing their own and each others intimacy needs. Truly, they are now in a very foreign, exotic land where they have never been before. The therapeutic focus here is to redirect each from turning 'out there' to determine 'what's right' or 'what's wrong' and to focus instead on their own internal moral compass. How does it feel to do this or that? Therapy will work to move them from the impersonal and detached "what's right?" to the more personal "what's right for us?". Slowly, they will come to see that getting their own needs met does not hurt or harm another and that in chronically compromising themselves for another there is no way to have emotional connectedness. They need to come to terms with the reality that needs are neutral and to view them without judgment. The Split-Self Affair husband needs to learn to prioritize himself, learn to identify his need for closeness, intimacy, love, sharing, passion and appreciation. He needs to acknowledge the very severe price he pays when he denies himself and makes choices that please others but compromise himself. It would be crucial for this couple to look at familial patterns in early childhood in which each was not free to be 'children' but to examine where they prematurely became the adults, the caretakers and bore excessive responsibility for their families. This is the root cause of the Split-Self Affair and that core must be unraveled and explored. The therapist's task is also to help the pair get 'out of their head' and to let the actual and true feelings guide them. A reorientation from the 'macro' lens of society to the 'micro' lens of the inner world is essential to healing and treatment. This pair lost the very essence of who they are in their efforts to 'do right' and they have to find themselves and determine their own definition of 'what's right for them' -- and that process of discovery may result in parting ways.

[waterwoman]

What about the 'split-self' wife then? Or is this theory just about men who deny themselves?