Constant fighting! -- I postponed/cancelled the wedding

[Radu]

His almost constant desire to not let you 'win' is the real problem, and it's not something that can be easily fixed.

That leads to abuse, to you putting up with being put down again and again and again.

Is that the right environment to raise a child in ?

 

This may seem cold-hearted of me, but i would leave and not look back [he will try to get you back by playing nice for a while], and even consider having an abortion if it is still possible.

[TigerCub]

His almost constant desire to not let you 'win' is the real problem, and it's not something that can be easily fixed.

That leads to abuse, to you putting up with being put down again and again and again.

Is that the right environment to raise a child in ?

 

This may seem cold-hearted of me, but i would leave and not look back [he will try to get you back by playing nice for a while], and even consider having an abortion if it is still possible.

 

Oh yeah, can't believe I forgot about this.

My ex got like that when we lived together, he would argue with me over every dumb little thing, just for the f*ck of it.

 

He wasn't abusive, like we didn't call each other names, and throw things or whatever,

 

but I did notice that A LOT when we lived together, and it was really frustrating and hurtful because he would disagree or argue purely for the purpose of arguing.

 

There were times where things were smooth, but that constant negation just for the f*ck of it was why I wasn't comfortable when we lived together and it is A MAJOR REASON why he's an ex now.

 

 

Good point Radu.

[pink_sugar]

Hell, at this point, if we split... I don't even want him in our life at all. I asked him if he would be willing to leave us alone, in exchange for me not asking for child support. He seemed hesitant but said yes.

 

If this is the kind of man he really turns out to be after all, his child is better off without him.

 

I know a lot of women want to go that route, but child support is what is in the best interests for the baby. He may not be a very good partner/husband, but it may be entirely different with his child. You don't want to automatically not give your child a father.

[liquid_amber]

i'm sorry you're going through this, Arabella.

 

i dated a verbal abuser for THREE YEARS, so i know what it's like to have someone you love treat you so badly.

 

i don't know why i stayed in such an unhealthy relationship for so long. it was over 10 years ago. all i can figure is that i had extremely low self-esteem at the time. i don't think i would put up with someone treating me that way now.

 

i remember that when things were good, we were SO unbelievably happy. even now, so many years later, I still remember how happy I was with him when he wasn’t verbally abusing me.

 

the problem was, he just couldn’t stand to remain happy. he always had to go and ruin it by being cruel and vicious to me. then i would cry and beg him to stop, and he'd laugh at me and keep being cruel, and ultimately we'd split up in some dramatic scene that never would have happened if he would have JUST STOPPED. then later, he'd apologize and we'd get back together. i really did love him and i thought he would finally understand that it would be so easy for us to be happy together if he would just STOP BEING MEAN. it was so simple.

 

i remember trying desperately to explain to him that if he would just stop, if he would just continue to be kind instead of turning vicious, we could be happy like that all the time! we would never have to be so miserable if he would JUST STOP.

 

but he wouldn’t stop. he couldn’t stop. that was the problem.

[therhythm]

I am really sorry to read this lady! I don't have much experience in relationships but I know that call naming can be very damaging and hurtful for the person who is being offended and is a form of abuse whatever you two decide to do with your relationship he needs to stop that right now!!

 

I think at this moment delaying the wedding is the best thing you can do but my advise would be to go to some counseling and see what you can get from it... you are severely invested in this relationship emotionally and with a child to come so if there is still any chance I would try to fight for the relationship without the pressure of a wedding date.

 

I wish and hope the best for you!

 

Please take care for yourself, extreme stress is bad for the baby.

[TigerCub]

i'm sorry you're going through this, Arabella.

 

i dated a verbal abuser for THREE YEARS, so i know what it's like to have someone you love treat you so badly.

 

i don't know why i stayed in such an unhealthy relationship for so long. it was over 10 years ago. all i can figure is that i had extremely low self-esteem at the time. i don't think i would put up with someone treating me that way now.

 

i remember that when things were good, we were SO unbelievably happy. even now, so many years later, I still remember how happy I was with him when he wasn’t verbally abusing me.

 

the problem was, he just couldn’t stand to remain happy. he always had to go and ruin it by being cruel and vicious to me. then i would cry and beg him to stop, and he'd laugh at me and keep being cruel, and ultimately we'd split up in some dramatic scene that never would have happened if he would have JUST STOPPED. then later, he'd apologize and we'd get back together. i really did love him and i thought he would finally understand that it would be so easy for us to be happy together if he would just STOP BEING MEAN. it was so simple.

 

i remember trying desperately to explain to him that if he would just stop, if he would just continue to be kind instead of turning vicious, we could be happy like that all the time! we would never have to be so miserable if he would JUST STOP.

 

but he wouldn’t stop. he couldn’t stop. that was the problem.

 

That's such a sad heartfelt post

 

I'm glad you got out

 

**hugs**

[Arabella]

It is a very unfortunate situation, and it seems like the more time spent with nothing being fixed, the more resentment that gets built up on both sides.

The worse it all gets.

 

You admit that he doesn't respect you, you know that he's abusive.

 

I honestly don't think there is much more to that.

 

Yes, he's been abusive, but he keeps telling me that I am too. That I'm disrespectful and bitchy and that's why he reacts the way he does.

 

I feel like there's some truth to the fact that I start the conflict usually by bringing things up (quite often, really) and sometimes I get frustrated... but that's because honestly? He has no idea what's OK to do in a serious relationship and what isn't. So, it's kind of up to me to draw the line on the sand. He admits to this much.

 

I guess what I question now is how much is my fault vs. how much is him deflecting blame on to me.

 

It's not in your head. Also, if he loves HIS coming child, he will take a step back and look at his own behavior and assess if he thinks that acting that way will be good for his kid.

 

At this point, I don't think he's even really internalized the fact that I'm pregnant with his child. Like, he's aware of it on an intellectual level... but that's about it. I hardly think he feels any love for his child.

 

How long have you been together?

 

My husband and I are dealing with very similar issues and the primary reasons are financial and resentment as a result. We also had issues at the beginning.

 

My advice is to work on this with a counselor asap or separate. When the baby comes, it won't get better. It will get worse.

 

We've been involved one way or another for a year and a half. Complicated history, but that's what it boils down to.

 

I am painfully aware that things are only going to get worse. I am terrified of that, actually... and that's why I keep thinking that it may be best to cut my losses and leave. But then, I will feel like I did not give this a fair chance by staying and working it out....

 

His almost constant desire to not let you 'win' is the real problem, and it's not something that can be easily fixed.

That leads to abuse, to you putting up with being put down again and again and again.

Is that the right environment to raise a child in ?

 

This may seem cold-hearted of me, but i would leave and not look back [he will try to get you back by playing nice for a while], and even consider having an abortion if it is still possible.

 

We both get testy sometimes. We're prideful people. But he takes it a notch further into downright childish, imo. I've never refused to work out a conflict or admit fault because I don't want to "let him win".

 

He didn't use to be like this AT ALL. Something in him changed a few months ago, and all this stuff began, just as we were getting over the initial problems.

 

I am not having an abortion, though. I want this child, with or without him.

 

Oh yeah, can't believe I forgot about this.

My ex got like that when we lived together, he would argue with me over every dumb little thing, just for the f*ck of it.

 

[....]

 

but I did notice that A LOT when we lived together, and it was really frustrating and hurtful because he would disagree or argue purely for the purpose of arguing.

 

I don't think he disagrees just for the hell of it... he does that mainly when he feels he is being attacked by me telling him that I think he is the one at fault.

 

He has basically let his ego come out and take the driver's seat, and that's how he conducts most of our interactions nowadays.

[pteromom]

 

I feel so heartbroken right now. Any advice would be helpful...

 

 

I just wanna say first of all that I believe you are a very smart and insightful person, and you should trust your own judgment. That is not something I would say to everyone, but from reading your posts on LS, you seem like a wise person.

[pteromom]

Yes, he's been abusive, but he keeps telling me that I am too. That I'm disrespectful and bitchy and that's why he reacts the way he does.

 

Does "disrespectful" = any time you disagree with him or need something from him that he doesn't want to give?

 

YOU do not control what he does, and his behavior is 100% HIS fault.

 

I feel like there's some truth to the fact that I start the conflict usually by bringing things up (quite often, really) and sometimes I get frustrated... but that's because honestly? He has no idea what's OK to do in a serious relationship and what isn't. So, it's kind of up to me to draw the line on the sand. He admits to this much.

 

And? You should be able to bring anything up. Part of a good relationship is being able to freely communicate. As long as you are bringing stuff up in a kind way.

 

I guess what I question now is how much is my fault vs. how much is him deflecting blame on to me.

 

I don't know if this is the right question. Sure, you should always analyze your own behavior and make sure you are being your best, but the real questions are - do you want to live with things the way they are? If he doesn't change, and he is the same way 20 years from now, would you want to be married to him? Does he WANT to change, or does he just defend or justify his behavior? Is he really open to change and growth? Is he CAPABLE of change and growth?

 

 

At this point, I don't think he's even really internalized the fact that I'm pregnant with his child. Like, he's aware of it on an intellectual level... but that's about it. I hardly think he feels any love for his child.

 

THis isn't unusual for men. There's even a saying about it - something about "women become moms when they get pregnant. Men become dads when they hold the baby."

 

I am terrified of that, actually... and that's why I keep thinking that it may be best to cut my losses and leave.

 

I don't think this is unreasonable.

 

But then, I will feel like I did not give this a fair chance by staying and working it out....

 

But again - is he both WILLING and CAPABLE of growth and change?

 

He didn't use to be like this AT ALL. Something in him changed a few months ago, and all this stuff began, just as we were getting over the initial problems.

 

Are you sure? Or is it just that he was hiding this part of himself, or that you were more diligent about meeting all his needs so he had nothing to get angry about?

 

It's easy to be happy when there's nothing to be unhappy about.

 

I am not having an abortion, though. I want this child, with or without him.

 

I'm glad. Perhaps his purpose in your life was just to give you this child.

[Radu]

I know a lot of women want to go that route, but child support is what is in the best interests for the baby. He may not be a very good partner/husband, but it may be entirely different with his child. You don't want to automatically not give your child a father.

 

This trumps pretty much everything else when it comes to the baby.

Not the way some women [not poking anyone, just admitting that some women use this as a weapon] do it, but in true sens of it.

[pink_sugar]

This trumps pretty much everything else when it comes to the baby.

Not the way some women [not poking anyone, just admitting that some women use this as a weapon] do it, but in true sens of it.

 

Agreed. Although my dad made good money, he always resented the fact that my mom paid little child support. My dad always made it known how much easier it would have been for him with emotional and financial support for both parents. He was drained and tired of doing it himself. So even if you are financially stable, you would be making a lot of sacrifice by not accepting child support. Even if you have the means to support this child...it could be used as a college fund or something similar.

Edited July 23, 2013 by pink_sugar

[HokeyReligions]

We agreed to see a counselor last week, but things have escalated so fast that we didn't even get a chance to find one and book an appointment.

 

I should mention that he used to have anger issues when he was in his teens; got into a lot of fights with classmates and parents. Eventually, he learned to control it by not becoming emotionally invested in anything. If you don't care, you don't get angry, right?

 

Obviously, he became emotionally invested in us, so the anger is back too.

 

I don't know what to do. Seems like anything we do now is just too late.

 

Its not too late. Get yourself into counseling and ask him to go too. You both need to learn how to argue. There are tools you can use and a good counselor will help you find the right tools for you both.

Ik familiar with a lot of what you describe hecause hubby and I went thru that too. Counseling helped us - several different times.

 

The namecalling, baiting and scorekeeping has to stop but you both need the right tools to stop it.

[HokeyReligions]

When hubby and I were having problems both before we married and after I got a lot of advice to leave him. We weren't compatible. Better to cut your losses, etc. I loved him and wanted it to work so I cried a lot and stayed.

 

When we finally got counseling I was terrified the therapist would confirm what others, who seemed wise and more experienced than me, were saying and that we should split up. I was really scared about it. I told the therapist my fears I found out that's not what they do. They need to get to know their clients and their clients know them. Then breakdown the problems and find the tools so the clients can apply them (or not) and work on their relationship. Than IF it still cannot work the clients can make that decision to split but the do so having learned a lot and more confident in their final choice. No less painfull I'm sure but better off.

 

Its not too late. Please see someone.

[Arabella]

This trumps pretty much everything else when it comes to the baby.

Not the way some women [not poking anyone, just admitting that some women use this as a weapon] do it, but in true sens of it.

 

So even if you are financially stable, you would be making a lot of sacrifice by not accepting child support. Even if you have the means to support this child...it could be used as a college fund or something similar.

 

 

I agree with both of you, but at the same time I feel that absolving him from child support may be the only way he would agree to let us be, you know?

 

If it comes to the point where I can't stand having him around and we split, I don't think I would want him in our lives at all...

 

As far as money goes... in the city I live now, I probably wouldn't be able to make it alone. It's stupid expensive. But if I move to a less urban area, I should be just fine.

 

Ok my question is, none of these bad signs were going on BEFORE you decided to get pregnant??

 

Good question... I've actually asked myself the same thing.

 

The short answer is no.

 

The long one is that we had troubles before like any couple, but it was not threatening the relationship... we were working through it. Or so I thought. From his side, it was apparently just building up resentment... and he turned into this.

 

I got pregnant early in May.... all this began end of May before either of us knew I was with child. When we found out, there was a pause for a few weeks. Talk about timing huh?

 

Its not too late. Get yourself into counseling and ask him to go too. You both need to learn how to argue. There are tools you can use and a good counselor will help you find the right tools for you both.

Ik familiar with a lot of what you describe hecause hubby and I went thru that too. Counseling helped us - several different times.

 

The namecalling, baiting and scorekeeping has to stop but you both need the right tools to stop it.

 

I tend to agree with you. It's not like this has been going on for years... its hard to believe it would be so hard ingrained into him that it cannot change.

 

He's really is not experienced in relationships. He went from a 2 year long relationship when he was like 19, to getting with me at 25. I know the cultural issues are very much a reality, but I also think that he really just doesn't know how to deal with problems in a relationship.

 

The counseling would be beneficial to both of us. I also carry a lot of trust issues due to past relationships that aren't helping.

 

I don't think it's time to give up.

 

I'm in a relationship that resembles yours. Mine is a cultural issue as well. For mine I know it's my nit picking, and for him it's his refusal to accept responsibility for his actions.

 

I try to nit pick less. I mean really when it comes down to it the things I complain about are stupid sometimes and I should just be quiet about it, if we did a tit-for-tat on what he accepts on my behalf he doesn't complain at all for all my little annoyances, so why on earth can't I be more like that?

 

[snip]

 

I mean what's the point if you can't even communicate right?

 

You two really do sound like me and him. Have you been to counseling with him? Do you think it would help at all or he wouldn't be receptive enough for it to "work"?

[Els]

Sorry to hear this, Arabella. I don't have an easy answer for what you should do, but getting married with all these unresolved issues would be an easy answer for what not to do, I think.

 

Hope you find happiness in whichever path you choose.

[Radu]

May huh ... so abortion is out of the question now.

[Arabella]

May huh ... so abortion is out of the question now.

 

I'm 12 weeks today. It's not out of the question in medical terms... but I've NEVER considered it.

 

I want this child.

[Arabella]

Well, here's an update for you all.

 

We (he) adopted a kitten yesterday. I have a cat and we'd been talking about getting a buddy so he wouldn't be as lonely. The timing is all wrong, but the kitten will be loved and cared for anyway so I figured there was no reason to delay this. We actually had a nice time shopping for supplies, getting the little guy home from the shelter and setting him up.

 

Before we sat down for dinner, he asked me for a hug, and I said him "does it go with an apology?". He seemed taken aback and hesitated for a second but then he did apologize, said he was sorry for calling me names and that it hurt him when I thought he didn't care about me, because he does. He was teary-eyed. Then we watched tv cuddling with my other cat. It was a nice evening, up until that point...

 

During the last fight we had, I sent an email to his mother letting them know "our" decision not to get married as planned. I did it because I needed to somehow make it firm, so I wouldn't change my mind again (it was too late to call or visit her). She didn't see the email until last night.

 

She called as we were getting to bed and his sister texted him to see if he was ok. He answered them and tried to be matter-of-factly about it but when he hung up, he was just so... sad.

 

As we were getting into bed, he said he felt "in shock". I asked why, and he said "several things...I can't believe he's really here". I knew he was talking about more than just the kitten, but I didn't press it. We went to sleep without cuddling like we normally do.

 

It feels like the severity and consequences of what's happened just became real to him when he spoke about the wedding being cancelled with his family.

 

This morning we were talking about the kitten on the drive to work, and things were cordial, but it felt off. I asked if he felt okay, and he said he was just drained and very tired. I've always been the more emotionally resilient of the two... and I get the feeling that he's actually going to have a hard time bouncing back from this.

 

Is it possible that he's just a man who made some mistakes? I really just don't get the impression that he's the abusive type. He had never done anything like this before... it's all so recent. Did our fights just break him and cause him to react like this?

 

I was in an abusive relationship (both physical and emotional) when I was very young.. for a good two years. I don't see the same patterns and behavior from him as I did from my ex.

[therhythm]

Well, here's an update for you all.

 

We (he) adopted a kitten yesterday. I have a cat and we'd been talking about getting a buddy so he wouldn't be as lonely. The timing is all wrong, but the kitten will be loved and cared for anyway so I figured there was no reason to delay this. We actually had a nice time shopping for supplies, getting the little guy home from the shelter and setting him up.

 

Before we sat down for dinner, he asked me for a hug, and I said him "does it go with an apology?". He seemed taken aback and hesitated for a second but then he did apologize, said he was sorry for calling me names and that it hurt him when I thought he didn't care about me, because he does. He was teary-eyed. Then we watched tv cuddling with my other cat. It was a nice evening, up until that point...

 

During the last fight we had, I sent an email to his mother letting them know "our" decision not to get married as planned. I did it because I needed to somehow make it firm, so I wouldn't change my mind again (it was too late to call or visit her). She didn't see the email until last night.

 

She called as we were getting to bed and his sister texted him to see if he was ok. He answered them and tried to be matter-of-factly about it but when he hung up, he was just so... sad.

 

As we were getting into bed, he said he felt "in shock". I asked why, and he said "several things...I can't believe he's really here". I knew he was talking about more than just the kitten, but I didn't press it. We went to sleep without cuddling like we normally do.

 

It feels like the severity and consequences of what's happened just became real to him when he spoke about the wedding being cancelled with his family.

 

This morning we were talking about the kitten on the drive to work, and things were cordial, but it felt off. I asked if he felt okay, and he said he was just drained and very tired. I've always been the more emotionally resilient of the two... and I get the feeling that he's actually going to have a hard time bouncing back from this.

 

Is it possible that he's just a man who made some mistakes? I really just don't get the impression that he's the abusive type. He had never done anything like this before... it's all so recent. Did our fights just break him and cause him to react like this?

 

I was in an abusive relationship (both physical and emotional) when I was very young.. for a good two years. I don't see the same patterns and behavior from him as I did from my ex.

Whatever you do... (and I think you are doing right by giving him the benefit of the doubt ant try again, somethings really worth the fight!) you need to tell him that name calling is not acceptable. He should stop that from this very moment.

 

Secondly you both should go to therapy... it will help you to understand why you guys get to the point where you almost break your relationship... You need to do some change in your dynamics or you will come back to the same place you are now.... as Einstein well said "insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results"

[Arabella]

he never admits something is wrong between us and blames it on something else. I have no idea why. I'm very communicative ( way to much for his uncommunicative self) and his way of not talking is a real issue. I feel as though if he admits there's a problem it's as if he is admitting he is a failure or something.

 

I won't be with him forever and I wonder when we have these fights if I should just end it and be done with it. Why put so much effort into a relationship I am not going to be in later? But the good times outweigh the bad and maybe one day he will learn to communicate better. When I do text out problems he does rectify the issues ( like walking the dog) but is it really that hard to speak to me about it.?

 

Funny you should say this. My man once told me that when we fight and I get upset, he feels like a failure for not making me happy. This is especially true when he's supposed to do something and forgets or procrastinates. He perceives this as a failure to perform his duties, which in turn, results in perceiving himself as a failure. Again, very much a cultural thing, I think.

 

It sounds like you're not interested in perpetuating this relationship with your man so I guess I wonder... why stay with him? You could be using this time to cultivate a relationship with somebody who you get along with better, and actually want to stay with. Do you really see no future with him at all?

 

Whatever you do... (and I think you are doing right by giving him the benefit of the doubt ant try again, somethings really worth the fight!) you need to tell him that name calling is not acceptable. He should stop that from this very moment.

 

Secondly you both should go to therapy... it will help you to understand why you guys get to the point where you almost break your relationship... You need to do some change in your dynamics or you will come back to the same place you are now.... as Einstein well said "insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results"

 

He knows the name-calling is absolutely unacceptable. Beyond this point, if he continues doing it, it's because he really just has no consideration towards my feelings. So, we will see.

 

We plan on going to therapy. This was always our intent but in the span of a week, ***** just hit the fan so fast we never got a chance. Now that things seem to have calmed down (the wedding is off, so not as much pressure), I am going to schedule us an appointment and see how it goes.

 

One thing is for sure.. I am not willing to perpetuate months or years of this fighting. I am going to give therapy a fair shot because we both could use it, but I need to see willingness and improvement on his part for me to stick around.

[pink_sugar]

Funny you should say this. My man once told me that when we fight and I get upset, he feels like a failure for not making me happy. This is especially true when he's supposed to do something and forgets or procrastinates. He perceives this as a failure to perform his duties, which in turn, results in perceiving himself as a failure. Again, very much a cultural thing, I think.

 

 

It's funny you mention this. My husband is the same way as well. He is half Filipino, born and raised here. When I get upset that he doesn't do certain things when asked, he acts the same way. He gets bothered by the fact that I am upset. Must be a cultural thing.

[liquid_amber]

be careful. men like this always feel bad and apologize, but then they turn around and do the same thing over and over again. my ex seemed incapable of controlling himself. some sick part of him got pleasure out of making me cry, and he just couldn't stop. i'm glad to hear that you guys are going to counseling, though. i remember when i brought up the subject of counseling with my ex. he laughed so hard and ridiculed me so much, and even made fun of me to our mutual friends for having the gall to suggest something so stupid. so if your guy is willing to do that, he sounds like a better person than my ex.

[pink_sugar]

Well, here's an update for you all.

 

We (he) adopted a kitten yesterday. I have a cat and we'd been talking about getting a buddy so he wouldn't be as lonely. The timing is all wrong, but the kitten will be loved and cared for anyway so I figured there was no reason to delay this. We actually had a nice time shopping for supplies, getting the little guy home from the shelter and setting him up.

 

Interesting you say this. I'm actually reading a book where a woman is having this guy's child. Family wants them to marry since she's pregnant, but they don't since they have issues. It's funny, the guy went out and bought a puppy for her despite what they are going through. Just had to say it reminded me of my reading. It sounds like he wants to try to improve things as do you. I know taking your baby and running sounds like an easy way out of coping with this, but at least give him a chance to be a father to his child.

[veggirl]

One good-ish day/night certainly doesn't = a change.

 

He has to make a conscious effort to change. He has to take active steps to do so. Until he does and until he shows consistent change (I mean like 6+ mos) the wedding should be 100% tabled.

 

Wait until your next disagreement to see how he acts (name calling etc or not?) before you consider that the past was a "mistake" on his part. Things are often mutually exclusive...just keep in mind that him being sad over X (marriage postponed) doesnt mean that Y (his abusive tendencies) has changed.

best of luck.

Edited July 25, 2013 by veggirl

[Els]

Funny you should say this. My man once told me that when we fight and I get upset, he feels like a failure for not making me happy. This is especially true when he's supposed to do something and forgets or procrastinates. He perceives this as a failure to perform his duties, which in turn, results in perceiving himself as a failure. Again, very much a cultural thing, I think.

 

Yes, I have noticed this in my bf (we probably come from a similar culture as your partner).

 

How does this correlate to the name-calling and pinning all the blame on you, though?

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't try to work this out - as therhythm says, some things are worth fighting for, and only you can decide whether this is or not. But I think you should be careful not to put everything down to cultural differences. The part that I quoted is cultural; the name-calling etc is largely an individual thing IMO. I hope you two manage to work that out, if you so choose.