Consolidated discussion - In dating/relationships, my gender has a much harder time

[autumnnight]

I hypothesize that unhappy women will answer women, unhappy men will answer men, and everyone else will say it depends or both have it tough.

 

I think it is tough for both. It hurts to know that someone is measuring you by one aspect of your personhood, many parts of which are out of your control.

[Mangina]

I am gathering some money up for jaw and lip surgery and some dental work. It will not make me jump to handsome but maybe just ease the eyes a little bit

[No Limit]

Both don't have it easy. It's hard to say who's in a worse spot, but I believe it's also dependant of the individual; for example not all men who get rejected constantly decide to go on a murder spree to fight back against the gender that humiliates their manhood-feeling.

 

Many girls depend on what others think of their appearance (who do you think is uploading nudes of themselves in tumblr; the ones who are aware of how they look and are content with it?), but at the same time some also don't care; I was the "ugly duckling" until 8th grade; before that I wore glasses, plain clothes and I usually wore ponytails to just get the hair out of my way. In 6th grade I once overheard a few boys and girls gossiping about my looks ("Well, at least girl xy isn't like No Limit!" basically) and while it did hurt a bit at the very moment I heard it it never bothered me to the point of crying and feeling like a loser, not even once. Funny, some months ago the guy who said it tried to open communication with me even though I hadn't seen him in 3 years; at this point no thanks, not my type.

 

But even the pretty ones don't take too kindly to being "neglected" regarding attention. Back when I was still in my old terrible college we once went to McDonald's and the cashier started the flirty talk and gave me a discount card just like that. That didn't sit well with my three companions who came up behind me saying "Hey, what about us?!"

 

 

tl;dr It depends on how much you let it get to you. If you don't care, it cannot harm you.

[hotpotato]

I'm pretty sure he thinks you meant "loser" when you typed "lser". I know you mean "LoveShack Poster".[/Quote]

 

oh lol

for the record lser=/= loser

Agreed. To expand on this, Woman A and Woman B can have different problems, as this thread has pointed out.

[hotpotato]

I don't think anyone thinks women never get rejected. Anyone who believes that is completely deluded. However, I think women generally don't get rejected on the same scale as men do.

 

Women get dumped in different ways. Men and women have problems at different stages.

 

I go to another forum. The guys complain they cant get dates. Women complain they can get dates and bfs/husbands but attract men who are manipulated and abusive. Neither one is really winning at the end of the day. Its painful I different ways. I dont know. Maybe lser dudes think thats ok because she had sex???

[Shining One]

Women get dumped in different ways. Men and women have problems at different stages.

 

I go to another forum. The guys complain they cant get dates. Women complain they can get dates and bfs/husbands but attract men who are manipulated and abusive. Neither one is really winning at the end of the day. Its painful I different ways. I dont know. Maybe lser dudes think thats ok because she had sex???

Think of dating as a ladder. These men who are not getting dates are failing to climb that first step of the ladder, and it's frustrating. From their point of view, the women are doing much better because they are failing at the third, fourth, or fifth step.

 

Few people have experienced both situations, so it's really tough to judge which one is worse. I used to know a woman who was very fat in her teens and early twenties. She received no attention from men. She had liposuction at 25 and then the men came swarming in. If she were still alive, I'd ask her which she preferred: No attention vs. lots of attention.

[hotpotato]

Have you ever considered dating someone with HSDD? I worked with a woman with this earlier in my career. I could never have dated her, but a guy with this might be right up your alley.

 

No, not really. Why would I? Dang is that hard to get a man to slow down a little? Nowadays id just reject the guy who asked for sex on a first date. If a man doesnt want to get to know me, well, so be it.

 

My crush was high sex drive, macho dude. His sex drive didnt cause any problems. In fact, it was something I liked about him.

[MGX]

Exactly, I know the whole argument is the equivalent of winning a tallest dwarf competition but if you gave me the option of being hit on by 50-100 potential sleazebags over the course of my life where there could still be the odd diamond in that number (whilst still having the option of hitting on others myself to boost numbers) vs. never being hit on at all in my lifetime and having to engineer every relationship myself through trial and error its an absolute no brainer that you would choose the first option.

 

If nothing else I am sure that there must be an ego boost of sorts associated with being hit on by men no matter what your appraisal of their character. At the very least you know you are visible. A man who gets no attention from women at all could be forgiven for thinking that he doesnt even exist as a sexual entity. Then he has to chase his tail hitting on women, being knocked back whilst being told "don't let it affect your confidence". This is so much easier said than done! If you do lose heart then you are even worse off as a woman will not touch a man who has no cconfidence. So for some men it can become a vicious downward spiral- the harder you try the more your returns diminish until you hit your 30s and any chance you had disappears because no woman is going to touch a guy who has spent the best part of his life being rejected.

 

Do women even get the loss of confidence that men get when they have no proof of their attractiveness to the opposite sex? Take it from me: it kills. Especially as you knoe that the more confidence you lose the less attractive you get. I dont think this particular vicious cycle applies to women.

 

Beautiful. Well stated.

[ascendotum]

Few people have experienced both situations, so it's really tough to judge which one is worse. I used to know a woman who was very fat in her teens and early twenties. She received no attention from men. She had liposuction at 25 and then the men came swarming in. If she were still alive, I'd ask her which she preferred: No attention vs. lots of attention.

 

She would prefer the later no doubt about it. I've known a few people who have made transformations,and also experienced it myself for a while + also read a few 'biggest loser contestant' stories and with out doubt they prefer to be in the more desirable category...absolutely. There is resentment though as to how much people change and are much more friendlier to you. It messes with your head a bit as it hard to know who is a genuine decent person and not someone who wouldn't have had any time for you before.

 

The hookup culture has changed things in this regard 'who has it easier'. While some women here say all they want is a great loving LTR, I would say the majoity of women these days want that but are also happy to have NSA along the way. When it comes to flings, ONS, FWB, f-buddies, less desirable women definitely have the advantage over less desirable men. while it is no easier for either when it comes to a LTR as basically its 1 to 1 pairing, when it comes to casual sex, struggling guys will definitely focus on that for comparison as its a lot less equally distributed among guys then women. One oif my gf's friend is FAT, like with a capital F. Her thighs rub together when she walks and she waddles a bit, yet she has managed to score 10 fwbs from OLD in a bit over 2 yrs. She would like a LTR but as an overweight single mom she realizes her limitations and is happy just to have a lover then be alone.

 

I think also some guys will consider women having it easier in terms of the attributes that they get judged negatively on. A woman who is, struggling financially, or has no sense of humor or who has a boring personality or is a nerd or is skinny or is shy or is short or is insecure or has low self esteem or who is anxious or who doesn't participate in any sport or who doesn't have any hobbies or who doesn't have many friends, will generally fair better in the dating market than her twin brother.

[hotpotato]

There are women on ls who say being a nerd hasnt exactly helped. I was one of them.

 

I think we have established that women can have more meaningless sex. Really, that has more to do with men than women.

[Anela]

 

Do women even get the loss of confidence that men get when they have no proof of their attractiveness to the opposite sex? Take it from me: it kills. Especially as you knoe that the more confidence you lose the less attractive you get. I dont think this particular vicious cycle applies to women.

 

It does apply. I'm not in the mood to say anything more as to how it applies, because it usually falls on deaf ears (or whatever the internet version of that happens to be).

[Revolver]

Unnatractive girls can hook up with attractive guys. Look at groupies

[somedude81]

Whomever goes on the most first dates has the highest success of finding a relationship.

 

Which gender do you think goes on the most number of first dates in a month?

[toolforgrowth]

What does that say about the women who go on all these first dates? Is that really a woman that you'd want to be with? Do you really think she'd be good relationship material?

 

You're looking at that behavior and saying, "I wish that happened to me," instead of saying, "This behavior most likely doesn't align with what I perceive to be a potential mate."

 

You'll never hear me tell a woman she can't date all those men. Her body, her life, her rights. But that would immediately remove her from my eligible dating pool, for obvious reasons. You might want to start viewing it the same way.

[somedude81]

What does that say about the women who go on all these first dates? Is that really a woman that you'd want to be with? Do you really think she'd be good relationship material?

 

Bwa ha ha! Why are you making me defend women? That wasn't the intention of my post!

 

Nope, I'm not going to fall for it.

 

A woman who goes on a lot of first dates has better chances of finding a guy she wants to be on a relationship than a man who goes on a small number of first dates each month.

 

There, I stuck to my guns

 

You're looking at that behavior and saying, "I wish that happened to me," instead of saying, "This behavior most likely doesn't align with what I perceive to be a potential mate."

 

So what?

 

I don't see anything bad about that at all. The more dates a person goes on with new people the better their chances to find the one they feel is a great match.

 

 

You'll never hear me tell a woman she can't date all those men. Her body, her life, her rights. But that would immediately remove her from my eligible dating pool, for obvious reasons. You might want to start viewing it the same way.

 

Why would you think badly about a woman who goes on a lot of dates? As long as she isn't sleeping or doing anything sexual with them I don't see a problem.

[toolforgrowth]

Bwa ha ha! Why are you making me defend women? That wasn't the intention of my post!

 

Nope, I'm not going to fall for it.

 

A woman who goes on a lot of first dates has better chances of finding a guy she wants to be on a relationship than a man who goes on a small number of first dates each month.

 

There, I stuck to my guns

 

If a woman goes out with, let's say, four new guys every month, and has been doing that for six months, that's twenty-four guys.

 

That seems really fishy to me. That tells me that either 1) her expectations are so high that you'll never be able to satisfy her, or 2) the guys are dumping her because she has a major character flaw.

 

I just thought of a third possible scenario: both.

 

So what?

 

I don't see anything bad about that at all. The more dates a person goes on with new people the better their chances to find the one they feel is a great match.

 

My paragraph above is why, for me, that behavior doesn't align with what I perceive to be a potential mate.

 

Why would you think badly about a woman who goes on a lot of dates? As long as she isn't sleeping or doing anything sexual with them I don't see a problem.

 

Odds are, the woman is doing something sexual with them. Especially if she's younger. I'm fully aware that not all women do that, but I have to guess that a significant number of them are. As I said, that's their right. But I certainly don't want to take a lady out who's been ridden more Lisa Sparxxx.

 

It all goes back to what I've told you before. You don't view yourself as having any value in the dating pool, and, IMO, you place too high a value on women who do get lots of dates. That type of behavior makes me skeptical of who they are as a person, for two very big reasons.

[William]

Due to some off-topic postings in other threads related to this topic, moderator bump to bring our consolidated thread back up the page to attract such postings and assist in keeping other threads adherent to their own topics. If members feel their gender has it harder in dating and/or relationships, the how's, why's, when's, where's and what's are welcomed here!

[William]

Moderator bump due to some parallel discussion. Please continue it here! Ha, just noticed I did this once before and suddenly the discussion dies if it can't be infused into other threads. Interesting!

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Anywhere you are that women are as well, basically. Talking to a woman during the day is not all all creepy as long as YOU aren't creepy.

 

I have never heard a woman say "I was out shopping and this guy smiled at me and said I looked like I was in a great mood! My day was just ruined after because of that!"

 

I think much of what Camaro Guy is saying can be summed up thusly: Don't be afraid to take up space. Stop waiting for the world to give you permission. Which I agree with, wholeheartedly, especially for us as men. Women are looking to us as men to set the lead and you can't do that if you're looking so much for the world to give you permission. Yes you do have to respect boundaries otherwise you WILL be creepy, but many guys on here error by taking up FAR TOO LITTLE space. You won't traumatize someone by starting a conversation w them (and leaving them be if they don't seem to want to talk).

 

Another way of putting it, manhood is earned, womanhood is given, I even saw that quote on a Facebook post

[Rejected Rosebud]

Another way of putting it, manhood is earned, womanhood is given, I even saw that quote on a Facebook post

How on Earth did you get this from what ImAJerk posted? And who in the world takes quotes from Facebook posts seriously?

 

This isn't a thread about how "women have it easier," it is about how the OP made things happen for himself and didn't just sit around feeling sorry for himself.

 

Anybody who prefers to sit around moaning wallowing in self pity needs to stay there until THEY are sick enough of it to do something different.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

That quote is actually quite accurate. A man isn't something you are, it's something you become. MANY, MANY books have discussed this over the ages. A lot of men don't feel like men these days because there's no official rite of passage for them to go through. In many societies, it is/was accepted that you do an act of some significance before you are recognized as "a man".

 

In western society, there is no such rite of passage. There are many guys over 18 who are not "men" at all.

 

Exactly, that's the meaning behind my statement, "women are born, men are made" but I didn't make it up, I found it discussed somewhere else

[Rejected Rosebud]

That quote is actually quite accurate. A man isn't something you are, it's something you become. MANY, MANY books have discussed this over the ages. A lot of men don't feel like men these days because there's no official rite of passage for them to go through. In many societies, it is/was accepted that you do an act of some significance before you are recognized as "a man".

 

In western society, there is no such rite of passage. There are many guys over 18 who are not "men" at all.

The quote says "manhood is earned, womanhood is given." GIVEN BY WHOM?? A woman is something you "become" as well. :rolleyes: Tribal women had and still have to in many cultures go through a formal rite of passage. Probably in ALL the cultures where males do.

 

So where do you guys get the idea that "being a woman is given" anyway? Please let me know!!

[Rejected Rosebud]

Exactly, that's the meaning behind my statement, "women are born, men are made" but I didn't make it up, I found it discussed somewhere else

It's lame, wherever it came from.

 

There are many biologically grown up female people who have not assumed the role of WOMANHOOD, read the posts on LS, there are many about these girls (often called PRINCESSES and the like).

 

When we begin to take accountability for ourselves and be responsible for our own lives we become men and women.

 

Our culture is full of entitled, whiny, demanding, adult babies IMO, male and female ones.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Well the number of guys who are aged 25 and older who have never had a girlfriend seems higher than the number of women who are 25 and up who have never had a boyfriend, that's why, maybe women are just not allowed to vent and complain about their dating/relationship frustrations like men are

[Dark Horse]

The reason why men have it harder is because they're the ones that have to approach and face rejection every step of the way. They have to "man up" and go up and talk to girl they like which isn't easy if you're very shy. Young and attractive women on the other hand will probably receive lots of male attention so they can afford to be picky.

 

 

A shy guy has trouble dating because if he never talks to a girl he likes, he doesn't really stand a chance because the girl will never get to know him. Confidence and status are very important for women looking for a partner and if you lack confidence, then you will have a hard time. Men with social anxiety around girls can EASILY stay virgins throughout a good portion of their 20s.

 

 

Shy girls on the other hand do not have it as hard compared to shy guys because men will still approach them as long as the girl isn't ugly or overweight. And chances are, one of those guys that approaches her she will happen to like.

 

 

 

 

Young attractive women in their late teens and 20s rule the world and they can EASILY get a ton of male attention if this is what they want. However, there will come a day when a women hits THE WALL which according to MGTOW's, it is when a woman loses her beauty and youthful appearance and this usually happens in her 30s. And all of a sudden, men aren't giving her as much attention as she used to.

 

Men on the other hand, if they play their cards right and get an education and make a pretty good amount of money, they can become quite successful with women when they get older and reach their late 20s or older.

 

 

There is an old saying that women age like milk and men age like wine. Basically a woman's peak value is in her 20s because this is when she is at her peak beauty. But when beauty fades (and it will eventually) she becomes less attractive and may get overweight. And what happens if all she had was her beauty going for her and loses it?

 

Men on the other hand become more attractive as they get older as long as they have a decent income. So all of you young men out there, take your education seriously because a broke ass 40 year old man isn't attractive to a women especially if he's ugly. So it's never too late to start to go to college or even start your own business.

 

 

Dark Horse out.