Health Issues and Wayward Spouses

[Act Two]

Yes and no. I'm not that into fluids.

[aliveagain]

Act Two, you are clearly one of the exceptions or my ex was just that much more twisted than the rest.

[krazikat]

Mental issues makes sense. Someone goes temporarily crazy and has an A. Whatever the cause, depression or bipolar or whatever, the fact is there is a change in brain chemistry. But even then, there must be very few of these cases because how is it possible for a clinically depressed person to lie for a very long time to their BS and not get caught? Doesn't that take some seriously solid judgement? We know the kinds of antics WS' employ. Pretty clever stuff though not sustainable. Unless we are saying one is depressed, meets a AP, becomes happy again and brain function goes back to normal for a while... You see how that logic just doesn't work?

 

Where you said, person is depressed, meets AP, feels the high, feels happy. It becomes an addiction or ? What? I am not saying they are mentally unstable, and if they are depressed amd the A becomes what they associate with a happy feelings, then of course ws could lie and deceive to keep getting that feeling.

 

I am not saying they are mental to the point of not having the ability to function or be clever. Just that depression and the low feelings one has of themselves and their world may contribute to a weakness that could lead to an A. And not all ws would fit that category of course. I am just trying to understand how health issues could lead to an A, and I simply do not believe that a health issue in and of itself contributes to an A, but instead the mental aspect of said health issue.

[findingnemo]

I don't think it is a question of having your wits or not having your wits. It's not like becoming literally intoxicated. It means that people with chronic illnesses, for example, frequently become depressed and/or experience shame and self-doubt.

 

An affair can be a way to self-medicate the emotional pain caused by the health issue. It is as destructive as another type of addiction. This doesn't mean it's not also a morally bad decision, but it is an escape from pain nonetheless.

 

I could not disagree with you more that it is not like an addiction. It VERY much felt like an addiction to me. Not that I completely lost control, but when I would go NC I would feel withdrawal and depression, and even a small contact with exOM in even a text message was a shot in the arm. The feel good chemicals would flood me. I read similar experiences over and over in the OW/OM forum all the time. It was an extremely tough cycle to break even though I cognitively knew I was causing harm to everyone including myself. Isn't that an addiction?

 

It really had nothing to do with sex for me- in fact, the sexual nature of my relationship with exOM wasn't that great. An affair isn't necessarily just about a sex addiction.

 

Hmmm...I see what you mean about it being an addiction to the "feel good" chemicals and not the sex itself. I guess I never thought of the similarity with other addictions. There's the reality that you (the person involved) just can't help yourself to some extent when it comes to the sex or even wanting just to see the other person.

 

When I was an AP, I simply couldn't help caring for xMM however angry I was. Amazing really. Makes me wonder... An addiction? The implications are frightening.

[findingnemo]

Whatever the affair partner becomes to the wayward, the addiction part stands out to me. No matter what walk of life people are in, affairs happen. Look at the situation regarding the successful, happily married journalist and the high ranking general, they both had children, her husband was a very successful doctor yet look at the train wreck they created. I still have images of her under his office desk playing with his flute while he conducted meetings that dealt with the nation's security. Why could she not stop the wreck from happening, she knew, he knew what was at risk yet they continued to the point that she threatened another married woman who she suspected was also cheating with him. They actually breeched national security to continue it, if it had been regular folk like us, we would be spending the rest of our lives in prison. Addiction, the high that adultery gives, that's a big part of it. That was so obvious to me as to why they always lie about using protection. They want to exchange bodily fluids, that's another part of the high. That was so big in my ex's affair, she got pregnant and had his child. The chances of that happening would have been minimal had they used protection. Just another lie.

 

Your ex had a child with the AP? I know how devastating that can be. I don't think you really recover from that.

[aliveagain]

findingnemo, yes my ex had an affair child with OM, I raised him until just before his first birthday. That is when I found out about her 2 year affair and had a paternity test done at the Children's Hospital, I am not his father. He still has my deceased father's name. I will never get over it unfortunately and I have been working on myself so not to let it interfere in future relationships. I have trust issues, yes. This is why I ask about past cheating when dating, not to woman that I go out with casually but those that become more one on one and longer term. My response is not intended to anger any former WW's but it is just my opinion.

[karnak]

The other component I wanted to add to this mix (as I follow this down the line):

 

You have been a supportive party to your spouse's affliction (medical/psychological);

they're aware that you have seen them at their most vulnerable, completely exposed;

if they're prone to low self-esteem & avoidant, to their minds, the magic has gone out, as they're too exposed;

in your mind, you feel honored to be let into the 'inner sanctum' of their problems, but in their minds, it's an abhorrent thing as they prefer illusion over reality;

hence, you get dumped, as they'd rather deal with someone who doesn't dare peek over their walls.

 

Yeah... some people are so shallow and vain that they hate when someone sees them on their more "humane" and less "divine" side.

Terrible.

[karnak]

Act Two, you are clearly one of the exceptions or my ex was just that much more twisted than the rest.

 

Not really.

By reading some of the infidelity stories in LS it seems that quite a lot of the affair partners like to do it without the condom. Most of the times the ladies just use the pill.

 

In fact, I remember quite a lot of stories where the women didn't use condoms with their lovers, while at the same time using it with their husbands.

[aliveagain]

karnak, it's like they are willing to do more things with their affair partner than with their spouse. The sex changes or stops, their loyalty is no longer with you, they are protecting their partner. I know there were times that she purposely had sex with me after being with him, I know she didn't feel the same and the look in her eyes was strange, almost like hate, I didn't know about her affair at that point but I was suspect. Still struggling with thoughts that I was crazy, doubting myself, in denial that she could do that to us. Yet I still knew something was wrong but still wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, I loved her, that was my weakness. Ya, that just makes me want to vomit thinking about it. I will always be whole, my spirit is unblemished, she may want to believe it for herself but some part of her was changed, that saddens me.

[BetrayedH]

karnak, it's like they are willing to do more things with their affair partner than with their spouse. The sex changes or stops, their loyalty is no longer with you, they are protecting their partner. I know there were times that she purposely had sex with me after being with him, I know she didn't feel the same and the look in her eyes was strange, almost like hate, I didn't know about her affair at that point but I was suspect. Still struggling with thoughts that I was crazy, doubting myself, in denial that she could do that to us. Yet I still knew something was wrong but still wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, I loved her, that was my weakness. Ya, that just makes me want to vomit thinking about it. I will always be whole, my spirit is unblemished, she may want to believe it for herself but some part of her was changed, that saddens me.

 

Sadly, I could have written most of this post, too. Not a good statement about the world.

[leonine]

leonine, does he trust you now, what do you do that makes him feel safe staying with you? Why is staying with you the right choice?

 

I'm a little reluctant to answer, not because I mind the questions, but because I'm going pretty far off topic. I'll go ahead and respond here, but if you have any further questions I invite you to post them in the thread I created back in February (since that thread is about me) or send me a private message.

 

He does trust me now, at least as much as he's going to trust anyone. The fact that I came clean on my own without any threat of discovery helped. We've been together for a long time and aside from this period I don't have a history of being a cheat or a liar. I was a complete mess the last couple months of my affair and the time between it ending and dday - I couldn't sleep, I lost weight to the point that a friend expressed concern for my health. So, he knows that I don't do well with secrets for long term.

 

I've repeatedly expressed my remorse and regret for my actions. I've answered all his questions as completely and truthfully as I could. I've encouraged him to talk to me about what bothers him whether it's about me or not. There are times when I bring up the affair when I suspect it would be on his mind. I make a conscious effort to show appreciation for what he does for me and that I love him. I've made the effort to figure out why I did this and put boundaries in place to ensure that it won't ever happen again.

 

He feels that staying with me is the right choice because he loves me. I'm still the person that he wants to be with. We've come through some tough times together. We've also been a really good team a lot of the time and we have a lot invested in each other. He told me recently that I had always been his rock. Neither one of us have been perfect (not saying that our wrongs are equivalent), but we've both learned a lot in the past couple years and we're both committed to being better to each other.

[aliveagain]

BetrayedH,

 

The other thing that really struck me besides the utter feeling of hopelessness was the loss of our dreams. We had dreams that I thought we were still working towards. So now you have not just lost your confidant, your partner, your right hand, your keeper of secrets, your best, best friend, your only son, all the dreams you worked so hard to materialize so you could prove your worth to her, they are gone. What I didn't get at the time is my dreams were the same, hers now included OM, their secret. I couldn't understand her indifference to me, so I worked harder on us, she didn't, she was already gone. I think all cheaters should be cheated on so they can feel the hurt they have caused. They can never undo what they have done, you just can't un***k someone.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm not sure why the secretive nature of an affair would change anything.- I guess I don't understand your post.

 

I think of it like any other destructive addiction; it temporarily soothes at the expense of the long-term damage it causes to everyone around. It is irrational and selfish.

 

Same as many other addicts hiding their addiction for an extended period of time.

 

The hidden nature of any addiction makes it more shaming and yet thrilling to "get away" with it. There almost gas to be a vector of "outsmarting or denying" to somewhat make an addiction "acceptable" to the addict as well.

[aliveagain]

leonine, thank you for your comments, hope my last comment about "you can't unf**k yourself hasn't hurt you, not my intent, but it's something that once done alters what it is that defines who you are. Once you put it out there it exists. I just wish I could have been able to do something to stop it before it happened. Was it because I couldn't read the signs or was it that I was too afraid to believe the signs? Who wants to loose someone that important in their life? This was all done for what a little thrill and a bit of strange, an imaginary rainbow world where there is no debt, poop doesn't stink and no one matters but you. From that moment, the moment the thought appeared in your head and you decided to act, your future,your life changed, those around you were also affected, they had no choice because they loved you.

[dreamingoftigers]

I dont think it is the health issues...but like I mentioned before, DEPRESSION OR OTHER MENTAL ISSUES THAT ARE OFTEN A COMMON SODE EFFECT OF HEALTH ISSUES. I dont think the bs is ever the cause for the affair, but something broken inside ws. With health issues, the brokeness can be a myriad of negative thoughts and self doubt, with depression at its core.

 

I dont find it an excuse for cheating, but depression causes people to do crazy things. Like suicide, the ultimate selfish act. So I can see how depression for whatever reason causes behaviors that ptherwise would not happen.

 

With any of the ws with health issues, was there depression?

 

Only one point I want to pick at here:

 

When you are suicidal, you don't feel that you are being selfish AT ALL.

 

You pain is so warped in on you that you can't take it AND you think other people want you around because they are "supposed to say that" or "they'll feel guilty if you killed yourself" not because they care at all what kind of anguish you are in.

 

You honestly think you would be doing everyone quite the favor because not only are you not particularly likable/lovable you "KNOW" that you will only end up going through massive bouts of pain throughout your life, perhaps causing hospitalizations which will only be emotionally and financially costly to your closest people who may feel obligated.

 

And honestly, if there's no one close enough than the sense is that you clearly aren't liveable/likable and no one saw you as having anything to add anyway. So who gives half a damn if you off yourself anyway?

 

I swear, people have the daftest attitudes about suicide.

 

I remember one girl on here ranting a raving about what a stupid, selfish person her brother was and how the whole family thought so.

 

Gee, I wonder why he didn't feel particularly inclined to stick around long enough to keep popping up at those reunions.

[aliveagain]

dreamingoftigers, anyone with a child knows different, your an amazing woman with an amazing child don't ever let the weak ones get to you.

[dreamingoftigers]

leonine, thank you for your comments, hope my last comment about "you can't unf**k yourself hasn't hurt you, not my intent, but it's something that once done alters what it is that defines who you are. Once you put it out there it exists. I just wish I could have been able to do something to stop it before it happened. Was it because I couldn't read the signs or was it that I was too afraid to believe the signs? Who wants to loose someone that important in their life? This was all done for what a little thrill and a bit of strange, an imaginary rainbow world where there is no debt, poop doesn't stink and no one matters but you. From that moment, the moment the thought appeared in your head and you decided to act, your future,your life changed, those around you were also affected, they had no choice because they loved you.

 

It sounds like you are just as devastated as I was (more actually, compounded by the loss of your son I'm sure).

 

It really sounds like you are at the harsh beginning of getting some answers.

 

The works really becomes a completely different place once adultery enters it.

 

It shatters so many things you previously thought about love and long-term relationships.

 

It sounds like you were a purist, like me, that believed that if you loved and respected someone and they loved you, that they'd treat you with respect and dignity and not to something so blantant to harm you.

 

It reminds me of Aesop's fable about the scorpion and the fox.

As much as our WS may have wanted to "cross the river" with us, as much as they knew the consequences of their choices, they couldn't suppress their nature to make a successful journey.

 

How much of that nature they were even aware of prior to marriage varies of course from person to person.

 

I see so many young people thinking "well s/he might have been like that with XYZ but s/he was "really unhappy" or "they've learned their lesson" or "but I'm different so they'll be different to me." Being a happy scorpion or an unhappy scorpion doesn't seem to matter in the fable in fact, his mood was never mentioned. Nor would the creature have mattered that allowed the scorpion passage. Just because some of the scorpions didn't know they were scorpions doesn't change that they are either.

 

The point of divergence here is that I believe WS CAN see the result of their actions and start to acknowledge and deal with that nature. Perhaps the equivalent of being "de-stingered by choice" or undergoing "scorpion genetic therapy" or even simply learning to deeply control the stinging urge to the point where it isn't triggered.

 

You'll probably float on for a bit thinking and feeling that the while world is rampaging screwing around except you. I went through that for awhile. Then seeing each person as a "potential font for betrayal." it goes on for awhile until the shock and trauma finally, sadly integrate. Then you almost see a macro view of human relations and marriages. You can spot the cheating patterns 50 miles down the road. 99% of the time. Then you'll fear that 1%. then you'll finally accept that you have no control over that. And start to really live your life again. Walls up.... I don't know what happens after that. My walls are now thicker than China's but even the Mongols got around that.

[dreamingoftigers]

dreamingoftigers, anyone with a child knows different, your an amazing woman with an amazing child don't ever let the weak ones get to you.

 

I had those issues up to eight years ago. Long before my daughter made an appearance.

 

I feel for you. The only time I was truly glad I was a woman was when I doing out about my husband's stepping out when I was eight months pregnant.

 

If I didn't spend three days in labour for the kid, I would have wanted a maternity test. As well, she didn't resemble me barely at all until this year. If I had been a man, I would have always wondered.

[aliveagain]

dreamingoftigers, you need to write children's stories, you have an amazing mind and you can do it from home. Really, I know stuff.

[krazikat]

Only one point I want to pick at here:

 

When you are suicidal, you don't feel that you are being selfish AT ALL.

 

You pain is so warped in on you that you can't take it AND you think other people want you around because they are "supposed to say that" or "they'll feel guilty if you killed yourself" not because they care at all what kind of anguish you are in.

 

You honestly think you would be doing everyone quite the favor because not only are you not particularly likable/lovable you "KNOW" that you will only end up going through massive bouts of pain throughout your life, perhaps causing hospitalizations which will only be emotionally and financially costly to your closest people who may feel obligated.

 

And honestly, if there's no one close enough than the sense is that you clearly aren't liveable/likable and no one saw you as having anything to add anyway. So who gives half a damn if you off yourself anyway?

 

I swear, people have the daftest attitudes about suicide.

 

I remember one girl on here ranting a raving about what a stupid, selfish person her brother was and how the whole family thought so.

 

Gee, I wonder why he didn't feel particularly inclined to stick around long enough to keep popping up at those reunions.

 

Yes, and I do get that. Suicide is the ultimate act of depression, the ultimate side effect.

 

My point is people dont do as they would normally do when they are depressed.

[dreamingoftigers]

dreamingoftigers, you need to write children's stories, you have an amazing mind and you can do it from home. Really, I know stuff.

 

I have considered it.

 

I might get a tad wordy though.

 

I noticed that when my daughter watches Caillou, that whoever made that shows had a really great sense about little kids in that age range. Really, really understood the sense of humor abs mannerisms in a way I hadn't see so deeply, even after having a child. Really impressed upon me.

 

Granted it isn't her favorite show, she gets more stimulation from the mas-produced Diego/Dora garbage (her viewing time is VERY restricted due

due the screen time/ADD-development correlation.)

 

But I do find the current media seems to underestimate children's ability to absorb information and put it together. When I grew up, they focused on examding imagination and creativity. Which is good. But they didn't balance it off enough IMHO. My grandmother (bless her) got me heavily interested in academics far earlier than normal. I think it was a good thing.

 

My daughter recently found an Anatomy and Physiology text of mine while I was cleaning out my closet. She wanted to know why that person was "hurt." (the muscles system drawing). Instead she was very fascinated with learning "what's underneath our skin." I had been petrified the first time I saw a

skeleton because of scary shows and commercials as a kid. It didn't even phase her in the least. Although it really cracked me up when she asked me if I could "take off our skin so we could see our bones.":laugh:

 

Sorry - thread jack - it's 12:55 here and Arrested Development streams on Netflix at 1:00. (NEW episodes!!!!) Had to stay up for that! We are HUGE fans!

 

I read your bit about going down the Deerfoot at 100k.

 

Clearly that wasn't any time between 15:30 to 18:00 on a weekday!

[aliveagain]

My hours are quite flexible so I don't get caught in rush hours. I just posted on the OM/OW Thread and it's hard to read about someone digging themselves deeper into an affair. How do you explain to someone who is still in fantasyland that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't the end of the tunnel but a train? I am living proof of what a train wreck looks like and no amount of time will ever take away the pain caused by infidelity. Too many things are outside of your control once you set the gears in motion. You can't control the behavior of your affair partner, you can never know if they are telling you the truth. You will never know who else knows, a lot the cheating men I have known over the years like to brag about their conquests. You open yourself up to blackmail, what if you want out but they don't want you to go? You never know who you will run into on your outing. Some say that's part of the thrill but the real thrill will be telling your kids the truth when they are old enough, why mommy and daddy aren't together like other family's. I never thought to ask the poster if she has any health issues.

[leonine]

leonine, thank you for your comments, hope my last comment about "you can't unf**k yourself hasn't hurt you, not my intent, but it's something that once done alters what it is that defines who you are. Once you put it out there it exists. I just wish I could have been able to do something to stop it before it happened. Was it because I couldn't read the signs or was it that I was too afraid to believe the signs? Who wants to loose someone that important in their life? This was all done for what a little thrill and a bit of strange, an imaginary rainbow world where there is no debt, poop doesn't stink and no one matters but you. From that moment, the moment the thought appeared in your head and you decided to act, your future,your life changed, those around you were also affected, they had no choice because they loved you.

 

No, you didn't hurt me aliveagain. You have to have a thick skin to hang out around here as an AP/fAP. And you are correct - you can't unf**k someone. I wish I could. Actually, I bet a lot of people whether they've been in an affair or not wish that they could. lol

 

I don't think this defines me though. More importantly, my husband, my family and my friends don't think that it defines me either. I'm much more to all of them than a cheater. It was something that I did once, but it isn't who I am now. I made a terrible choice, but I've learned from it and have made changes in myself to make sure that I never do it again.

[aliveagain]

leonine, how did it change your husband? How do you handle your change, you were that other person, you did those things. I know that nobody grows up thinking that "I am going to get married and have a great family than I am going to destroy it all by cheating on my spouse". Who plans for life to include that? How do you know you'll never do that again, what is different now than before when you allowed yourself the affair?