Invitation to Rape?

[sami]

I have been studying Islam along with other major religions for years and I have never read or heard anywhere that " the tetimony of a man is worth the testimony of four women". This is the first time for me to hear it!!!???.

[fritziematt]

Well...actually I messed up there...It says that the testimony of a woman is half of a man...so I guess that would make two right?

 

I've been studying Islam for a while now...mostly because of terrorism...I'd have to say that after reading the Qur'an and the other inspired writings that I have a whole new view of Islam and the Middle East...

 

anyway...I know this isn't a Islam discussion board...so...

 

I just want to know how we know the amount of rape going on in Islamic countries...since rape is a death sentence to many women why would they report it? I'm guessing that the instances of rape or attempted rape in Islamic countries are a lot higher than in the Western world...but who knows...

[fritziematt]

Anyway...I think the FBI profile of rapists is a helpful look into the motivation of rapists and again it has NOTHING to do with what the woman does. It's not the womans responsibility to make sure she doesn't seduce a man into raping her. Of course there are behaviors that are risky like going to the bar and getting drunk then going home with a strange man...that's the kind of behavior the rapists would look for and prey on.

[sami]

Well, there are many different and complicated reasons why rapists do what they are known for. In most cases it depends on the rapist himself and his surrounding circumstances. Religion seldom plays a significant role. I just don't see how the "Islamic world" is relevant here. May be we need to leave our prejudices behind before we post our views or comments. Just a friendly advice.

[fritziematt]

I stand by what I said... there are other forums to discuss religion...this isn't it...but to say that religion doesn't affect societies and their attitudes towards women and other people for that matter (especially where religious law is political law) doesn't make sense. There is obviously a difference in opinion between the cultures when it comes to how women should dress and who is responsible for rape.

[sami]

well, everybody here is entitled to stand by whatever he/she may think right. That doesn't make it right though.

[uriel]

As a Humanities Professor, let me add to this discussion an important complication: there's no one Islam any more than there is one Christianity. Islam includes different sects and has had different broader characters depending on historical period and region. Some of what gets characterized as Islam is actually more original to a general Arabic or subtribal culture.

 

Of course, religion affects attitudes toward the family, gender role, sexuality, and sex crimes. However, how exactly religion does so is complex -- a subject of many scholarly books. I think we can broadly say that traditionally, Islam, like Christianity, was grounded in patriarchal culture, which viewed women as valuable as wives and mothers but not as valid participants in government, law, and so on. Some more liberal Islamic cultures now see women as valid participants in these more "worldly" and historically masculine spheres, just as some liberal Christian cultures do -- and as nearly all secularized / ing cultures globally do.

 

Traditional cultures in general tend to have much stricter divisions of gender identification and subsequent social roles than modern, industrial ones do. This is the real demarcation between women's possibility of social empowerment, in my view -- not the most common religion practiced in a region.

 

-- uriel

[fritziematt]

I would agree that much of what is going on in Islamic cultures is also Arab tribal tradition...but I think with the spread of radical Islam (it doesn't matter if it's shia or sunni) they bring Arab culture with them because they believe it is superior (ie. Africa). I think that there are a lot of Islamic countries that are reforming to be more modern and allow women to participate...and I think that's part of the reason for the latest jihad because there are many who see the Qur'an as the ultimate way to govern people and believe it is superior to modern law.

 

I'm not condemning all Muslims most are nice people and many are in danger themselves in radical islamic countries...I think even more so than say christians or jews...I'm reminded of a video from the Olympics where they showed the muslim women athletes from Afghanistan and Iraq competing and showed their story. They interviewed a man from Afghanistan about the athlete from his country and he said if it was his sister he would kill her for showing herself in public. That is just an example...and more proof that I don't think that the hijab is for protecting women from rape but to oppress them... and the justification comes from what they see as religion (whether or not it is actually from religion or ancient arab/tribal beliefs).

[uriel]

Yes, I agree Fitzmatt, that the actual members of these traditional cultures tend to conflate, themselves, tribal / local culture with religious doctrine and practice. After all, the Koran, like any other text, is open to interpretation, the interpreter comes to the text and processes it from a particular cultural point of view, and the end result is perceived as a form of "truth." Christianity was used to justify like brutal attitudes in its time -- and still may be in parts of the world.

 

For me, the baseline matter remains the traditional culture, though. There's a standard of civilization, ideologically, they have yet to meet -- one that promotes tolerance and protects the human rights of the physically weakest members of their societies: women, children, social outcasts, etc.

 

-- uriel

[fritziematt]

I think it's a combination of both religion and culture and that the two affect and change each other...but anyway...we could probably go on forever about this but this is the abuse forum.

 

I think its more important to get people to know that what women do doesn't cause them to be raped (just like the attitude about abuse that the abused did something to deserve it). It's all about the mental state of the rapists...just like a serial killer or lust murderer, ect. It's all about the rapists being able to get their victim alone so they can be controlled...I've noticed that this issue of control comes up in a lot of different cases like abuse, rape, serial killings (with organized offenders mostly), ect. It's almost the same kind of thought process...it's interesting...it seems like they all have some kind of antisocial personality...I have a homicide investigation class right now for my forensics degree and that thought just came up when I was reading about profiling suspects.