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Invitation to Rape?


Moose

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The Mrs. and I went to orientation with my 16 year old for his college courses this year. When we were there, you should've seen how these young ladies were dressed!!!!

 

Long story short. My wife was raped not long before we married. We were in our, "off" stage in the dating game. Well, we got to talking about how these girls were dressed, and how it tempts men to comment, or even approach women.

 

I made the mistake of saying that if some of these girls wouldn't dress the way they did, they wouldn't get raped or even killed so much.

 

MAN, She let off on me!!!! She raised her voice and said, "So, you think I got raped because of the way I dressed???"

 

My second mistake was my response: "I don't know, I wasn't there". She immediatly started to cry and left the room.

 

The guy that did this to her lived across the way from her apartment. It was very easy for him to watch her. And back then she dressed quite revealing, (Still does at times).....that's why I responded the way I did.

 

When it happened, she was at his apartment and they got into a, "Pillow fight", he then forced himself on her against her will.

 

My question is, does anyone else feel that the way some women dress entices these sick men to rape or even kill?

I mean, people like this guy are sick, I understand that. But what happened to my wife just seem like to me that she put herself in that situation. Not so much invitited it, but maybe contributed to it sub-consciounsly, by the way she dressed back then and by having a pillow fight in his apartment.

 

Am I the only one who feels that this is a possibilty that this is way some women get raped or even killed?

 

P.S. We did talk it out and we're fine......

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Moose oh moose.

 

I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree with you on this one.

 

There is abolutely NO reason for a man to force himself upon a woman!

 

She could walk the streets naked if she wanted to and no man should touch her.

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I agree with that E, these guys are sickos!! Knowing that should'nt women be more cautious?

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What moves a man to stranger rape isn't a "normal" sexual urge. It's an impulse that's far more violent and primitive. This violent and primitive urge can be linked to the usual sexual channels or it can be linked to even more taboo violations (of children, the elderly, religious figures, etc.).

 

Date rape is a different matter. In those cases, the man has set up enough of a friendship or dating relationship to establish his interest and perhaps a degree of returned interest. He may be of the mindset that if a woman comes up to his place, wears sexy clothing, or goes to a certain point in making out, she is asking for it -- or, if not asking for it, being enough of a tease that she deserves whatever she gets. This sort of thinking has to do with a combination of sexual frustration and traditional gender socialization (men of this order think: good girls don't dress, act, etc. this way, so those who do must be easy / whores / available / willing).

 

So yes, when surrounded by men like this, women obviously put themselves at greater risk by dressing sexy, drinking / losing control, sending out mixed signals (erotic dancing, strong flirtation), and putting themselves in unchaperoned, potentially compromising situations.

 

Unfortuately, the rhetoric of sexual liberation which tells women they should be able to do as they like and merely say 'no' to stop things from going further doesn't necessarily help them to face the reality that some of their behavior confuses men and that even those men who are clear the woman doesn't want to won't always stop once they feel aroused or encouraged.

 

The fault is not ultimately the woman's. He has chosen to do something violent, immoral, and illegal. However, woman could do more to protect themselves, to avoid being unwitting and unwilling targets.

 

-- uriel (a woman)

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We should but I refuse!

 

Why should I have to go to the mall with my hard earned money and see a shirt that I like and then say to myself

"No wait I can't buy I could get raped in that!"

 

Why?

 

They are just that sickos and I doubt they even care what a woman is wearing because obviously they only want whats underneath the clothes.

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DerangedAngel

Being a woman, and a rape victim, my first reaction is to be offended by your thread.

 

I've worked very hard to shake the guilt I felt for years, and it doesn't help much when people who can't possibly understand the pain I went through keep coming up with more ways that I could have "prevented" it.

 

I believe I made a few careless mistakes that day, but after counseling I know that what happened to me was not exactly a fitting punishment for those mistakes.

 

Before I start to rant, I'll just answer your question. I don't believe if a woman chooses to wear something revealing, she is "inviting" someone to rape her. The way she dresses doesn't change what kind of person the rapist is.

 

I still have the clothes I was wearing the day I was raped. I won't wear them again, ever, but not because I think it would provoke another man to take advantage of me.

 

I guess that's the only way I can really respond.

 

-Deranged

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HokeyReligions

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t43527/?highlight=Rape

 

Moose, read this thread. The first person posting was talking about the way she dressed and the rape.

 

My question is, does anyone else feel that the way some women dress entices these sick men to rape or even kill?

I mean, people like this guy are sick, I understand that. But what happened to my wife just seem like to me that she put herself in that situation. Not so much invited it, but maybe contributed to it sub-consciously, by the way she dressed back then and by having a pillow fight in his apartment.

 

Clothing, attitude, posturing, etc. does NOT contribute to a rape -- no matter how much a rapist wants to claim that it does. It might tease and entice a man to make a pass, and even be a bit aggressive about it, but no way, no how, does it invite or trigger a rape.

 

http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/myths.html

Rape Myths – someone else posted this link in another thread and I saved it.

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I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone at all. It was merely a question. Uriel did a good job answering my question. And I agree with you E. You should be able to buy whatever clothing you want....I am more laxed about what my wife chooses to wear.....

 

My thing is, that knowing that there are these sickos out there, and with some experiences that I personally know about, the woman's actions added fuel to these jerks and I thought, at the time, that it was a possibility that the actions, (of the woman), contributed to the circumstances leading up to the sickos actions.

 

I can see now why it hurt my wife so much. Sometimes I have these questions and I need feedback from someone other than my wife to get a grasp of where she's coming from. Although we've together for almost half our lives, there are still things that don't get communicated clearly between us.

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I refuse to live my life like the next person I meet could attack me. I won't be a victem BEFORE ever being attacked. Men walk down the street w/no shirts on- I'm a little too modest for that but I think women should have the same rights to wear what they want that men do

 

Bodies are not what cause danger- we all have skin and the amount we show has nothing to do w/ the sick mind of a sexual predator

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You know, I spent some time in the Middle East a few years ago, and had a chance to speak with an educated (and English speaking, since I don't speak Arabic) Muslim man about some of the impositions that Muslim culture makes on women. Because as a Western woman it seems ridiculous to me that women should have to cover themselves from head to toe in order to prevent men's lust. Men's lust is their own responsibility, and if they can't control themselves then they shouldn't be allowed to go about freely. Mind you, we weren't even talking about rape, but of course at the end of the day that's what the Muslim customs are meant, in theory, to prevent. Prevent rape and control women's voluntary sexual behavior.

 

At one point I asked him if he thought theft was a crime. Of course it was, he said. Well then how is it that merchants are allowed to display their wares openly -- an invitation to theft, surely! In fact, if someone steals an orange at a bazaar, it's the orange-seller's fault, isn't it? He shouldn't have had his oranges in plain view, and easily accessible. Don't blame the thief, or, if you must blame the thief don't fail to point out to the merchant how he could have prevented the theft by hiding all of his oranges and only producing them when asked by a customer. That's reasonable, surely. The merchant could still do business, and that way he wouldn't be enticing anyone to steal. Merchants are very irresponsible, they just put stuff out under people's noses -- it's a wonder everyone doesn't steal! The man I was speaking with laughed and conceded my point, although ultimately he didn't agree with me that women should be free to go where they please and dress as they like.

 

I am responsible for my own behavior, and that includes how I dress. If I choose to dress in a particuarly revealing fashion, I take responsibility for the impression I make on other people, who might opt to not take me very seriously, who might think I have very bad taste, who might (if they're men) think I'm probably not someone they'd like to date because I look like a floozy, or on the flip side might conclude that I'm exactly the kind of woman they want to chat up in a bar because they're looking for sex and I look like the kind of woman who would easily agree. They are free to think that, and they are free to approach me with that belief, and to try to hook up with me. If I find their advances to be unwelcome, I might want to give some thought about how I dress and the type of attention I seek to attract. But at no point does my manner of dress (or undress) make it okay for someone to act upon me in a way that violates me. Wearing a diamond bracelet doesn't mean it's an invitation for someone to steal it. Dressing provactively never makes it okay for someone to force themselves on me.

 

People are always 100% responsible for their own actions. If someone drops their wallet, in the street and saunters along unaware, and doesn't listen when I shout "hey you dropped your wallet," that doesn't mean it's okay for me to keep it. I'm obliged to chase them down and return it. Even if they don't say "thank you." You can argue, "they should have kept a closer eye on their wallet. They're just lucky that an honest person happened to find their wallet." True, to a certain extent. But one person's carelessness never excuses another person's dishonesty. A woman's clothing is never an invitation to rape. It might be an invitation for a man to think about having sex with her. But anyone who can't distinguish between thinking about having sex with someone and forcing them to have sex is probably someone who shouldnt' be allowed to walk the streets.

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Thanks hokey, that opened my eyes to a lot......man, even I can be an insensitive person...... :(

 

I hope all of you understand that I'm just trying to learn.....

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At one point I asked him if he thought theft was a crime. Of course it was, he said. Well then how is it that merchants are allowed to display their wares openly -- an invitation to theft, surely! In fact, if someone steals an orange at a bazaar, it's the orange-seller's fault, isn't it? He shouldn't have had his oranges in plain view, and easily accessible. Don't blame the thief, or, if you must blame the thief don't fail to point out to the merchant how he could have prevented the theft by hiding all of his oranges and only producing them when asked by a customer. That's reasonable, surely. The merchant could still do business, and that way he wouldn't be enticing anyone to steal. Merchants are very irresponsible, they just put stuff out under people's noses -- it's a wonder everyone doesn't steal! The man I was speaking with laughed and conceded my point, although ultimately he didn't agree with me that women should be free to go where they please and dress as they like.

 

Very funny but soo true. Those Irresponsible merchants! lol

 

And Moose you know we have nothing but love for you here.

 

We know your learning...:)

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HokeyReligions
Originally posted by Moose

Thanks hokey, that opened my eyes to a lot......man, even I can be an insensitive person...... :(

 

I hope all of you understand that I'm just trying to learn.....

 

Nothing but respect for you Moose. I wasn't offended at all and I didn't think you were being insensitive by asking/posting here. I think its probably easier, espeically for a rape victim, to post a reply here that they have had time to think about rather than respond on-the-spot in a conversation when their emotions can jump ahead of their mouth! :)

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DerangedAngel
I think its probably easier, espeically for a rape victim, to post a reply here that they have had time to think about rather than respond on-the-spot in a conversation when their emotions can jump ahead of their mouth!

 

:o Point taken, and I apologize (Moose). :bunny:

 

My feelings haven't changed, of course, but I could probably tone it down a bit. It's hard sometimes to tell exactly how someone is responding when all you have to go by is text. I'm sorry if it seemed I was making it personal.

 

Cheers.

 

-Deranged

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I knew a girl that had been raped.

 

When she broke down and told her parents about it, the first words out of her mother's mouth were:

 

"It's because of the way you dress"

 

I honestly think those words did more harm than the act of rape itself. With those simple words her mother alienated her daughter forever, and actually tried to place blame on her own daughter.

 

Luckily the girl was sharp enough to realize her mom is a screwhead, and wrote her off.

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Originally posted by midori

 

At one point I asked him if he thought theft was a crime. Of course it was, he said. Well then how is it that merchants are allowed to display their wares openly -- an invitation to theft, surely! In fact, if someone steals an orange at a bazaar, it's the orange-seller's fault, isn't it? He shouldn't have had his oranges in plain view, and easily accessible. Don't blame the thief, or, if you must blame the thief don't fail to point out to the merchant how he could have prevented the theft by hiding all of his oranges and only producing them when asked by a customer. That's reasonable, surely. The merchant could still do business, and that way he wouldn't be enticing anyone to steal. Merchants are very irresponsible, they just put stuff out under people's noses -- it's a wonder everyone doesn't steal! The man I was speaking with laughed and conceded my point, although ultimately he didn't agree with me that women should be free to go where they please and dress as they like.

 

WOW! Incredibly well said! Bravo, Midori.

 

Moose, I'm really glad that you are asking questions and learning about her situation (myths, stories, etc.) for your relationship. Kudos to you too.

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I think Midori has made some excellent points. This basically outlines my way of thinking. Except, I do believe, to go to Midori's analogy, that merchants take care in protecting their wares, to ensure that they are secure. Are women doing the same if they put the goods on display, leave them unattended (by getting drunk), and take them out of the shop and set them up in an area where thieves are likely to be (a drunken party, an intimate setting alone late at night)?

 

When we talk about rape, we are talking about predatory behavior on the part of men. If women are the prey, shouldn't they be -- practically speaking -- looking out for their own gazelle behinds? That's just common sense to me -- as a woman who was sexually abused as a child. I NEVER trusted men to respect my boundaries. I make sure my boundaries are not open for assault -- and even then fear a man will ignore the messages I send about my not being available. Planned rapists don't care about that once they've targeted someone who suits their type or seems an easy target. Spontaneous rapists (date rapers) can be kept at bay by taking precautions.

 

No, women should definitely NOT have to protect themselves in this way. It's not fair that I can't walk the streets alone at night or wear revealing clothes, get drunk, and roll around on the floor at a party or concert without a man climbing on top of me and mating like a boar. But, the reality is that we DO have to protect ourselves -- and we should.

 

--- uriel

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Men's lust is their own responsibility, and if they can't control themselves then they shouldn't be allowed to go about freely.

 

I think midori made some VERY good points and I agree completely.

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Originally posted by uriel

I think Midori has made some excellent points. This basically outlines my way of thinking. Except, I do believe, to go to Midori's analogy, that merchants take care in protecting their wares, to ensure that they are secure. Are women doing the same if they put the goods on display, leave them unattended (by getting drunk), and take them out of the shop and set them up in an area where thieves are likely to be (a drunken party, an intimate setting alone late at night)?

 

We're talking about two different things: a) taking care of oneself and b) "inviting" rape or another personal violation. My main point is that every individual is responsible for their own actions. If a shopkeeper had a late-night delivery and couldn't be bothered to be there himself and so just told the truck driver to leave the stuff by the door and he'll bring it into the store the next morning -- well, yes, that shopkeeper is being pretty careless. Does that make it right for someone to steal the delivered goods sitting outside the shop's door? I don't think so. There's a basic rule: if it isn't yours, don't take it. For many people the rule even extends to: if you find something of value you should make any reasonable effort to return it to its rightful owner -- even if that just means turning it into lost & found or the police. Someone's carelessness with their property does NOT give anyone the right to take that property. A woman's lack of cautiousness, in her manner of dress or in her behavior, does not give anyone the right to sexually violate her. Does it make it more likely that she'll be taken advantage of by an unscrupulous person? Possibly. Maybe even probably. Does that diminish his guilt? Not in the slightest.

 

When we talk about rape, we are talking about predatory behavior on the part of men. If women are the prey, shouldn't they be -- practically speaking -- looking out for their own gazelle behinds? That's just common sense to me -- as a woman who was sexually abused as a child. I NEVER trusted men to respect my boundaries. I make sure my boundaries are not open for assault -- and even then fear a man will ignore the messages I send about my not being available. Planned rapists don't care about that once they've targeted someone who suits their type or seems an easy target. Spontaneous rapists (date rapers) can be kept at bay by taking precautions.

 

I suggest you read through the thread that was linked to earlier by Hokey Religions: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t43527/?highlight=Rape

 

Believe me, I agree that women ought to exert some caution in how they present themselves, they ought to think about where they go and with whom. I certainly do. But that doesn't mean that a woman who wasn't cautious -- or didn't seem to be cautious in retrospect (it's so easy for others to say "oh why did you go there/wear that/meet him alone" after the fact) -- invited someone to rape her. When someone overpowers you and forces themselves on you/into you, there are no mitigating circumstances that excuse the violation.

 

No, women should definitely NOT have to protect themselves in this way. It's not fair that I can't walk the streets alone at night or wear revealing clothes, get drunk, and roll around on the floor at a party or concert without a man climbing on top of me and mating like a boar. But, the reality is that we DO have to protect ourselves -- and we should.

 

--- uriel

 

Indeed. The question, then, is to what extent? Even devout Muslim women, swathed head to toe in concealing garments and never leaving their homes without the company of a husband or adult male relative, get raped. And they are blamed for their rapes, despite the "precautions" forced upon them. Any woman who thinks that she is 100% safe from rape because of the precautions she takes is kidding herself. And let's not forget that men and boys are also rape victims. Some people are predators, yes, and their violence takes different forms: some kill, some rob, some rape. Some do all three. None of them have victims who were asking for it.

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I was going to use a similar analogy to Midori's - why buy an expensive car? Surely it's a tempation to be stolen? Why have a nice house - after all, someone may rob or vandalize it? As long as people think that women may 'deserve' getting raped because of their actions, some men will have in the back of their heads that it's somehow ok because the woman 'asked' for it. Until all people, male and female, refuse to allow those sorts of thoughts to exist, there will be less safety.

 

I'm not saying that changing attitudes will solve all rapes, but when NO human dares to suggest that someone 'asked for it' or wasn't cautious enough, it may cause some date rapists or other guys who aren't the violent rapists but the ones who take advantage if they can might have more reason to stop before they begin.

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Midori -- I don't believe I was discussing whether a thief would have the RIGHT to steal if the shopkeeper lets down his guard. Obviously, no one has a right -- moral or legal -- to harm another, materially or bodily. Women, do, on the other hand have the right to be safe and inviolate. But, the point is that rapists aren't interested in our rights.

 

Thus, if women want to better assure themselves of their safety, they need to take practical measures in order to do so, measures that will keep them more often out of harm's way and attract less unwanted sexual attention. I'll grant that even then, a woman's safety is not guaranteed. Her chances of staying safe are only improved. But, to me, that's worth what I'm giving up: a certain amount of public license.

 

I would rather not have to give anything up. But I'm not living in a utopian ideal, where people act as I wish they would or as is rational for them to do. It's a bother to lock the doors of my house, but I do it. In the same way, I don't get drunk in public or show off my goods to men I don't want to attract.

 

I don't think women who take those chances are inviting rape. Not at all. The rapist forms an unacceptable intention in which she plays no willing part. I do think women who take those chances are opening themselves up to a greater risk of attracting harm. And I wish they wouldn't.

 

When I teach my son how to cross the street at the crosswalk, I won't tell him he needn't take extra precautions because it's up to motorists to avoid hitting him (the law) and he has a RIGHT as a pedestrian to cross there. I will tell him to look left right left, move quickly across the street, and use all reasonable caution. That's the best way to ensure his safety. Similarly, I think we should be teaching young women to use their common sense when they interact in mixed company. I'd teach my daughters no getting drunk, no showing off your bounty, and no going anywhere alone in a potentially compromising place unless you want things to go further. They must assume that men don't always do as they should. Too bad if they have to change their own behavior as a result. I want them to have as good a chance at getting home unharmed as I can give them.

 

I believe I am making a clear distinction in my posts between the traditional patriarchal mindset of saying a woman is asking for rape if she dresses and acts in certain ways and a committed feminist one of saying that women need to be realistic and look out for themselves rather than trusting men to do right by and even take care of them.

 

We cannot ignore differences in gendered behavior. Women are in danger of being sexually victimized by men, much more than the other way around. This necessarily restricts our social interaction with men, whether it's right or desirable or not. It burns me too that men can feel freer walking alone at night or giving up control in a public situation, such as a party. But I accept that this fundamental unfairness is the way things are now -- what I have to live with if I want the best chance of not being a victim.

 

-- uriel

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As for the discussion of Muslim prohibitions in women's dress, I just want to say that these are as much about controlling women's sexuality as supposedly guarding them for their own welfare. Genital mutilation, also promoted in Muslim-influenced African cultures, is likewise about controlling women's sexuality -- even more so.

 

I don't buy these modern pro-coverage arguments about the primary goal of the dress being women's protection (although I've heard many Muslim women say it gives them that feeling of security). Women are more often than not punished in such cultures for being victims of rape -- even to the point of being slain in "honor" killings.

 

However, a conservative sexual culture does yield fewer rapes. The price of sexual liberation is a greater danger to women.

 

Let's compare:

 

USA in 1999: total number of rapes 89,110 (per capita: .3 per 1000 people)

 

Saudi Arabia from period 1998-2000, total number of rapes: 87 (per capita: 0.00 per 1000 people)

 

From Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention); CIA World Factbook, December 2003.

 

In fact, per capita, Saudi Arabia has one of the lowest rates of rapes in the world (bottom of 66 nations). The US, on the other hand, is 9th. We can legitimately be said to have a "rape culture" -- with only these countries being worse, from #1 to #8:

 

1. South Africa 1.23 per 1000 people

2. Seychelles 0.79 per 1000 people

3. Australia 0.79 per 1000 people

4. Montserrat 0.77 per 1000 people

5. Canada 0.74 per 1000 people

6. Jamaica 0.48 per 1000 people

7. Zimbabwe 0.44 per 1000 people

8. Dominica

 

source: http://www.nationmaster.com/index.php

 

Incidents of rape are much less frequent in Muslim cultures that follow such dress codes (the more modern Turkey doesn't get the same good stat report) not just for the obvious reason of the woman's body being covered, in my opinion, but for their general conservatism regarding sex. As a rule, men of such patriarchal cultures have historically reasoned that women who compromise themselves, thus putting themselves into the "whore" role, deserve whatever treatment men dish out. Women who honor tradition, have a good reputation, etc. do wear more than just a cloth veil -- they keep the cultural status of madonnas. Only a truly depraved man within that culture (from that culture's perspective -- from ours, any rapist fits this bill) would rape a madonna -- and would then, of course, greatly fear the consequences. Systems of belief shape behavior.

 

This doesn't mean I'm in favor of such conservative patriarchal attitudes toward sexuality, not even if they keep women safe. Such strategies of social control benefit men far more than they do women, since they are tied to other, even more pernicious restrictions on self-expression. In fact, I think it's unfortunate that such such patriarchal attitudes in our own society are still in the mix. These are sometimes articulated right alongside the more socially liberal, updated view that young women should be as free as young men to explore their sexuality and express themselves in public -- and as independently. I'm all for women having those hardwon freedoms. My point, however, is that we can't expect to exercise them in our current cultural clime if we want the best chance of protecting ourselves -- and rape is only one of the consequences. Unwanted pregnancy and STDs (including the silent catalyst of cervical cancer, HPV) are others, ones for which women all too often bear the burden, too.

 

-- uriel

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I suspect that in such patriarchal cultures rape would rarely get reported or be followed up reliably. You have to remember that reported crimes never represent the real numbers.

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Even so, the per capita incidents in conservative countries are dramatically lower. Your qualification doesn't negate the dramatic slant of the evidence.

 

Why are incidents of incest much fewer than rape in the US? It's taboo. Similarly, in these middle-eastern, conservative Muslim countries, it's taboo.

 

Consider this too: In South Africa, rape reporting may be assumed to be quite off as well. Although it is the rape capital of the world at the moment, the government has historically officially refused to acknowledge this post-Apartheid surge in rape. If, then, we take rape stats to represent in nearly every nation only a portion of the reported crimes, we get still the same sort of relative scale.

 

You can always look through the stats provided by Human Rights Watch etc., which will show you similar rankings. These figures will have been estimated from non-official sources and take underreporting into account.

 

My argument is rather more complex than a mere statistical analysis, but I think that the stats will support the general conclusion at any rate.

 

-- uriel

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Hi Uriel,

 

You raise good points, and I certainly don't disagree that Muslim conventions are just as much about controlling women's behavior as they are about protecting them (as I said in my first post in this thread).

 

And, again, I don't for a moment disagree that women should face the reality of the world and take precautions. As I've said earlier in this thread. But the original post in this thread, and the title of this thread, asks the question, "do women sometimes invite rape?" That is what I'm addressing, and as I've said earlier, that is a separate question from whether or not women in the real world should take precautions.

 

I contend that there is a fine, and dangerous, line between advising women to be cautious (again, as I do!) and suggesting that if they are not cautious, or not sufficiently cautious for a given situation, that they are inviting rape. I used the analogy of the orange-seller to emphasize that no one questions who is responsible -- completely responsible -- for theft. No one suggests that the orange-seller was "asking for it." People would just say, "it's such a shame that you can't even have a fruit stall at the bazaar without having to worry about thieves. We've got to do something about thieves. We have to improve security for all of us, because next time it could be the guy selling records, or the guy who sells t-shirts." No one doubts that they are equally vulnerable to theft. And while such concerns may well lead people to improve security and take more precautions against theft, no one for a moment doubts that the blame rests entirely upon those who would steal. But the minute someone hears about rape, they speculate about where the victim went wrong. Even if unintended, that excuses the rapist.

 

It's good and necessary to point out repeatedly the ways that women should take care of themselves. I wish that conversation happened more often, without sounding like a moral condemnation of women who want to be able to go out and have fun without suffering anything other than a hang-over the next day. Or to walk in the park by herself. Or.... [insert activity that woman was engaged in when she was raped]. It's unfortunate that these discussions rarely take place unless someone has first raised the issue of rape -- their own awful experience with it, or, as in this case, talking about someone else's rape with the implication that perhaps she could have done something to prevent it.

 

Cheers,

midori

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