How long until the plague of religion goes away?

[The nihilst chick]

By some estimates, mankind (Homosapien) is about 100,000 years old (give or take).

 

The Bible goes back approximately 5,000 years. New Testament about 2,000, the Koran about 1,500.

 

How long do you think it will take for mankind to undo the horrible harm that has been done to mankind by the Abrahamic religions over the past few milennia?

 

I don't mean rectifying the rapes, tortures, murders, genocide, incest, and slavery. Nor the wholesale genital mutilations or witch hunts (which still go on in Africa today) nor the numerous scientists who have sacrificed their lives to speak the truth to make the world a better place - to prove that the world is NOT flat, that it is bacteria that make us ill - NOT demons, etc.

 

I mean the effects of breaking our human reason and rationality. The centuries of indoctrination of children and the fear that still makes it virtually impossible to mount a defense against this insanity?

 

I have no idea, but I have given this honest though. If it took us arguable 2 thousand years to get here (on a widescale, Christianity has to be the benchmark) will it take as long to undo these crimes?

 

Knowledge is the only way to get rid of religion.The more progress science makes the weaker religion gets. The more we point out religions flaws the more people will turn away. Only knowledge can end ignorance and for religion to go away will take centuries. Because often times people cant accept the truth.

[BetheButterfly]

Knowledge is the only way to get rid of religion.The more progress science makes the weaker religion gets. The more we point out religions flaws the more people will turn away. Only knowledge can end ignorance and for religion to go away will take centuries. Because often times people cant accept the truth.

 

The title of the thread shows extreme intolerance and indirectly attacks groups of people from all over the world for their beliefs. In my opinion, that is like saying, "How long before the 'plague' of [insert group of people] goes away?"

 

Education and knowledge includes the ability to be more tolerant and accepting of people who are different than you, which includes differences in beliefs, cultures, worldviews, ethnicity, gender, social status, sexual lifestyles, social status, and nationalities.

 

Thankfully, many people of different religions (as well as other differences) have through education grown in tolerance and acceptance of other peoples, which is why freedom of religion is considered important. Hopefully Militant Atheists do not regress down the road of hatred and intolerance which ignorant religious people have traveled, but rather hopefully Atheists consider the importance of diversity and how education/knowledge should increase kindness and acceptance instead of abolishing them.

[The nihilst chick]

Knowlege is also the absence of ignorance. Religion is more powerful than any other idea or concept on the freakin Earth and longer lasting and more harmful. And actully polls would say differently. Religious people were found to know little about other religions and even their own compared to atheists. Also atheists are the most hated/distrusted minority in the states. Most Americans dont want their kids marrying one, they believe that we dont share their vision of America, and they trust us as much as rapists. Now whhhhere could they get such stupid ideas from? And tolerance? Please if your a atheist u are considered worse than gays and muslims. If u dont worship a god you r gonna burn in hell.I rather be told my belief is a plague than that i will burn forever for doubting something theres no evidence for.

[The nihilst chick]

People are not being attacked; a certain way of thinking is being attacked. That's very different.

 

Rightly or wrongly, the OP has a view of religion that is categorised by divisiveness, superstition, anti-intellectualism, cruelty, brutality and intolerance. You're free to disagree with that assessment (as do I, as it's really only part of the story). But given that the OP does hold to this view, how is it an example of intolerance to wish away such a malevolent, crippling influence on humanity?

 

It's really no different to "love the sinner, hate the sin". I personally don't dislike people for being religious, I dislike what it does to them in some cases.

Its ok for religious people to spread their intolerant views because that is gods word. If a atheist does it there bigoted.

Watch The double standard by darkmatter 2525 on youtube. Its about how Christians can get away with one thing but atheists get slammed down instead.

[mercy]

“If people but knew their own religion, how tolerant they would become, and how free from any grudge against the religion of others.” Hazrat Inayat Khan

[skydiveaddict]

You expressly claimed that last time around, even going so far as to make the colossally ignorant claim that Hitler was a staunch atheist. You've given no indication that you've tempered your delusions with facts of any kind.

 

I've already said it: He outlawed the practice of Judaism; and removed bibles from christian churches. Here are some quotes from him:

 

"Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... " Bormann 1953 p. 278

 

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery..." Bormann 1953 pp. 118-119.

 

"Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer... By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." Bormann 1953, pp. 63-65

 

"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity." Bormann p 64

 

 

And in what way does that relate to your original category of "despots who despised religion of any kind". The Japanese had their own religion, and viewed their emperor as a god. You're committing such laughable errors here that I have to wonder if you're a Poe of some kind.

 

You are wrong again. The emperor was simply a figure head. By the early 1930's the Japanese military had complete control of the government. "Kokutai no Hongi", was published In 1937: "Nation before self, you are part of the state, not separate from it."

Citizens who would not cooperate with this "new" vision for Japan were soon reeducated by the Kempe Tai.

 

You are partially correct however. Some Japanese viewed the emperor as God. But by that time he was simply a puppet for the military, nothing more.

Edited October 18, 2012 by skydiveaddict

[skydiveaddict]

And, as I pointed out to you last time, he also closed down the German Freethinkers League, along with all other atheistic and freethinking groups in Germany. Explain that. Oh, that's right, you can't.

 

Yes I can. He replaced any group of free thinkers, religious or otherwise with, HIMSELF!!! DER FUHRER!!! The future of Germany!!!

He had the help of the brown shirts and the gestapo to properly "educate" anyone who disagreed.

Only my view is consistent with reality: Hitler was a megalomaniac, and was out to consolidate power by eliminating any and all threats (real or perceived), regardless of religious affiliation or lack thereof.

 

So where do we disagree?

 

All your quotes demonstrate was that Hitler was no fan of Christianity. Big deal, that doesn't make him an atheist. One of the quotes you cited quite clearly stated that Hitler despised Christianity precisely because it made a mockery of god. That's consistent with the views of a staunch atheist?

 

Obviously it is. Since we both agree he detested Judaism and was "no fan" of Christianity. So then what religion did he embrace? Buddhism? Shinto? Islam? Hindu? No. He embraced HIMSELF. THE FUHRER!! Any history book will tell you that.

 

Do yourself a favour and read Hitler's Table Talk, a compilation of Hitler's more private views, less influenced by political expediency than his public comments.

 

Where do you think I got all those quotes? They were from Martin Bormann's transcripts of the "table talks" (there were many more than one.)

 

The telling factor is that Hitler made not one recorded utterance of assent or endorsement of secularism. His comments regarding Christianity vary wildly, but he never once said a word regarding atheism that was not a condemnation, and always professed belief in a deity.

 

Yes. HE was the DEITY: HEIL MEIN FUHRER!!! Can't you see that?

 

As far as you are concerned, I am done with this topic until you lift the veil on your appalling ignorance, as I have much better things to do with my time .

 

Yes I can see that, since you would not address the issue of Japanese aggression and their subsequent murder of over three million people. Which had nothing to do with religion.

 

But like you said, until I stop giving you facts that you can't dispute, my "veil of appalling ignorance" cannot be lifted.

Edited October 18, 2012 by skydiveaddict

[skydiveaddict]

And the crucial points that you are making a lifestyle of avoiding are:

 

• Hitler consistently professed belief in a deity in both public and private.

Yea, him

Show me one history book that supports the idea that Hitler equated himself to god in any way. You are pulling that one out of your arse.

 

Hitler,The Psychopathic God

 

Bormann's inclusions, as you would know if you had any familiarity with the source material,

 

I do have, we studied them in college.

 

are controversial due to allegations of alterations.

 

Actually, at least from what I understand, the contentions lie more with translation than alterations. But I could be wrong. I'll give you that one.

 

 

All I can see is somebody making a fool of themselves with hyperbole and nonsense because they can't sustain their assertions with facts.

 

I keep giving you fact after fact and all you do is hurl insults at me.

[BetheButterfly]

 

I keep giving you fact after fact and all you do is hurl insults at me.

 

That is so sad, isn't it?

 

Insults do not take intelligence, integrity, evolution, or maturity. Rather, it just takes a mean spirit.

 

Thanks for the interesting information. It is fascinating to me how some people have tried to rid the earth of another group of people and/or other people's beliefs. However, trying to rid the earth of another group of people and/or other people's beliefs is highly intolerant, bigoted, and selfish.

 

As for Christians, one thing out of many that I very much admire about Jesus and his apostles is the following, which I think is so important!!!

 

1. Jesus taught to love God, each other, one's neighbor, and even one's enemies. Love does not mean killing, hurting, or insulting others. So, anybody who kills, hurts, or insults others is not obeying Jesus' command to love others, obviously.

 

2. If Jesus had said to kill people or hurt people, then I would very much understand the huge chip Militant Atheists have on their shoulders. However, Jesus emphasized love. The good, humanitarian Atheists I have met recognize this and make it a point to emphasize that love and kindness is what matters, no matter the motivation. For good and kind Atheists, their motivation is because doing so contributes positively to society, is a part of "giving back," and makes them feel good. Those are all wonderful reasons. For Christians, love and kindness (which go together) have the motivations of because God says so (part of the rules for the "game of life."), it contributes positively to society, it's a part of "giving back," and it makes them feel good.

 

3. Many Militant Atheists deliberately ignore or downplay the wonderful contributions many Theists have made to the world. Instead, they just focus on Theists who disobey Jesus' commands to love and totally diss anyone who brings up the Theists who have and do make a positive difference in the world. That is sad. That is like if Theists generalize all Atheists as being heartless when really only some are heartless. I personally am happy when ANYONE loves people different than them for ANY reason, but apparently some Military Atheists do not care that for many people, believing in God motivated them to not be selfish but instead to love and help others.

 

Anyways, this thread just shows how some Atheists are guilty of bigotry, hatred, and intolerance to the thoughts/beliefs of other people. However, it reminds me of Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24.

 

Matthew 24 (I boldened some.)

Matthew 24 NIV - The Destruction of the Temple and Signs - Bible Gateway

 

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

 

 

Even though there are doubtless people around the world (both Theists, Agnostics, and Atheists) who sadly hate others, we don't need to follow haters. Instead, it is our responsibility to grow in love for others, no matter their differences to us. Sometimes that is hard to do, as we are not perfect. However, with God's help, we can love even those who are unlovable.

[Eve]

That is so sad, isn't it?

 

Insults do not take intelligence, integrity, evolution, or maturity. Rather, it just takes a mean spirit.

 

3. Many Militant Atheists deliberately ignore or downplay the wonderful contributions many Theists have made to the world. Instead, they just focus on Theists who disobey Jesus' commands to love and totally diss anyone who brings up the Theists who have and do make a positive difference in the world. That is sad. That is like if Theists generalize all Atheists as being heartless when really only some are heartless. I personally am happy when ANYONE loves people different than them for ANY reason, but apparently some Military Atheists do not care that for many people, believing in God motivated them to not be selfish but instead to love and help others.

 

Anyways, this thread just shows how some Atheists are guilty of bigotry, hatred, and intolerance to the thoughts/beliefs of other people. However, it reminds me of Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24.

 

Matthew 24 (I boldened some.)

Matthew 24 NIV - The Destruction of the Temple and Signs - Bible Gateway

 

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

 

 

Even though there are doubtless people around the world (both Theists, Agnostics, and Atheists) who sadly hate others, we don't need to follow haters. Instead, it is our responsibility to grow in love for others, no matter their differences to us. Sometimes that is hard to do, as we are not perfect. However, with God's help, we can love even those who are unlovable.

 

I wouldn't worry about it, none of it is about actual happenings. It is based on imaginary arguments; notice how none of what they say is grounded in actual live experiences with Christians in real life?

 

Mostly they are rejecting the faith of their parents or are pissed off about something political/historical which isn't even affecting them.

 

If there is a genuine rift with someone of faith I could understand but scan the pages on this section of the board and you will barely find any active examples of practising Christians actually doing anything to anyone. All they have is examples of human behaviours they don't like, not faith based behaviours and to top it all there is no distinction between the two for them, EVER.

 

*Shrugs*

 

So, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Take care,

Eve x

Edited October 18, 2012 by Eve

[mercy]

That is so sad, isn't it?

 

Insults do not take intelligence, integrity, evolution, or maturity. Rather, it just takes a mean spirit.

 

Thanks for the interesting information. It is fascinating to me how some people have tried to rid the earth of another group of people and/or other people's beliefs. However, trying to rid the earth of another group of people and/or other people's beliefs is highly intolerant, bigoted, and selfish.

 

As for Christians, one thing out of many that I very much admire about Jesus and his apostles is the following, which I think is so important!!!

 

1. Jesus taught to love God, each other, one's neighbor, and even one's enemies. Love does not mean killing, hurting, or insulting others. So, anybody who kills, hurts, or insults others is not obeying Jesus' command to love others, obviously.

 

2. If Jesus had said to kill people or hurt people, then I would very much understand the huge chip Militant Atheists have on their shoulders. However, Jesus emphasized love. The good, humanitarian Atheists I have met recognize this and make it a point to emphasize that love and kindness is what matters, no matter the motivation. For good and kind Atheists, their motivation is because doing so contributes positively to society, is a part of "giving back," and makes them feel good. Those are all wonderful reasons. For Christians, love and kindness (which go together) have the motivations of because God says so (part of the rules for the "game of life."), it contributes positively to society, it's a part of "giving back," and it makes them feel good.

 

3. Many Militant Atheists deliberately ignore or downplay the wonderful contributions many Theists have made to the world. Instead, they just focus on Theists who disobey Jesus' commands to love and totally diss anyone who brings up the Theists who have and do make a positive difference in the world. That is sad. That is like if Theists generalize all Atheists as being heartless when really only some are heartless. I personally am happy when ANYONE loves people different than them for ANY reason, but apparently some Military Atheists do not care that for many people, believing in God motivated them to not be selfish but instead to love and help others.

 

Anyways, this thread just shows how some Atheists are guilty of bigotry, hatred, and intolerance to the thoughts/beliefs of other people. However, it reminds me of Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24.

 

Matthew 24 (I boldened some.)

Matthew 24 NIV - The Destruction of the Temple and Signs - Bible Gateway

 

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

 

 

Even though there are doubtless people around the world (both Theists, Agnostics, and Atheists) who sadly hate others, we don't need to follow haters. Instead, it is our responsibility to grow in love for others, no matter their differences to us. Sometimes that is hard to do, as we are not perfect. However, with God's help, we can love even those who are unlovable.

 

What a beautiful post!

 

People of the world don't look at themselves, and so they blame one another. Rumi

[strongnrelaxed]

 

all I saw was a few excessive claims made by strongnrelaxed.

 

 

Ouch! Et tu Joe?

 

Those "claims" are not my own. They are historical facts. For the record.

 

I agree that is sounds strange and bizarre. Excessive - indeed. Goodness gracious folks - millions of people have been raped, murdered and tortured and continue to be in the direct name of the God of Abraham and religions. There is no way to dispute this.

 

And the only answers ar "yeah, but what about Hitler" and "yes, but he loves you"

[skydiveaddict]

I agree that is sounds strange and bizarre. Excessive - indeed. Goodness gracious folks - millions of people have been raped, murdered and tortured and continue to be in the direct name of the God of Abraham and religions. There is no way to dispute this.

 

I dispute it. What "millions" of people? Can you show me some historical facts for this?

 

And the only answers ar "yeah, but what about Hitler" and "yes, but he loves you"

 

Yet you dismiss this out of hand, as if it doesn't matter. Hitler himself was responsible for the deaths of twenty million people just in Russia during WWII.

Edited October 19, 2012 by skydiveaddict

[Eve]

We're discussing history, otherwise defined as "actual happenings". My personal interactions with Christians are not the topic of this thread. Is that really so hard to understand?

 

 

If the conversation doesn't interest you, feel free to take your business elsewhere. This is just off-topic whining.

 

I was not speaking to you, Mister. I can speak to another poster in terms of a general over view, no?

 

If you want to go on like Hitler is as an authorative figure within Chrisianity, fair enough. Clearly he is not.

 

*Shrugs*

 

Take care,

Eve x

[BetheButterfly]

It would be if it were true.

 

The first definition listed in dictionary.reference.com of the tolerance is the following:

 

"tol·er·ance

 

   [tol-er-uhns] Show IPA

noun 1. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry."

 

Tolerance | Define Tolerance at Dictionary.com

 

Calling religion a plague is similar to calling a race a plague. Both are very intolerant. One is bigotry, the other is racism. Also, negatively generalizing a whole group of people just because of a few people is also not tolerant.

 

It is interesting to me that bigotry is something that many Atheists ascribe to in their interactions with Theists and many Theists ascribe to in their interactions with Atheists. However, instead of being bigots, can't we agree to just disagree and mutually respect each other as diverse human beings?

 

The first definition of bigotry in Bigotry | Define Bigotry at Dictionary.com is the following:

 

"big·ot·ry

 

   [big-uh-tree] Show IPA

noun, plural big·ot·ries. 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own."

 

 

 

 

You've just highlighted the difference between the ideal and the reality, and most people (militant atheists or otherwise) tend to judge based on the reality. What's so difficult to understand about that? Regardless of what Jesus said, sometimes Christians do hurt and kill people. Why shouldn't we find that galling?

True Christians do find that those who hurt and kill people are galling. Also, true Christians who know Jesus' commands to love believe that hurting and killing people is in direct disobedience to Jesus' commands in Matthew 5 and Luke 6.

 

Luke 6 (I boldened some.)

Luke 6 NIV - Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath - One - Bible Gateway

 

27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

 

 

Therefore, any "Christian" who hurts or kills another person is basically a hypocrite and a disobedient person to Jesus. If you study Jesus' life, did he ever kill anybody? Nope. Did he ever hurt people? Jesus healed people!!! When you see a person called a Christian not follow Jesus' teachings, that means that person is either not a true Christian or in a state of disobedience that brings shame.

 

 

This sums up what seems to be a fairly regular impasse I face in these discussions. I'm less interested in what somebody believes, and more on how they act on those beliefs and how it motivates them to treat others. So that's what I focus on, and more often than not the reaction is to deflect any and all criticism under the banner of "well that's not True™ Christianty". The problem is that however laudable True Christianity is, it's very rarely the kind that most people come into contact with.

True Christianity is what Jesus taught and is believing what Jesus said and did, including his death (he didn't kill anybody but he died for everybody) his resurrection, and his giving us the Holy Spirit to guide us. It is sad that there are not more people who call themselves Christians who actively obey Jesus' teachings. However, that does not negate what true Christianity is. Rather, those who hurt others are just proving themselves to be either not true Christians or in the shameful and horrific state of being disobedient to Jesus' commands to love God (Matthew 22:37), love your neighbor (Matthew 22:39), love your enemies (Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:35), and love each other (John 13:34).

 

Now, as far as I know, Atheists don't tend to have a universal rule by an authority figure concerning loving others including one's enemies, right? However, if they did and some disobeyed that, then that would make those Atheists who disobeyed that command to be hypocrites, right? Not true Atheists following their code of life.

 

Christians however do have a universal rule by the authority figure Jesus Christ. That rule is to love God, one's neighbor, enemies, and each other. Basically, that means to love everybody!!! That can be tough, let me tell you. However, I see that it is good because if you love someone truly, you wouldn't hurt them or kill them. Rather, you would strive to make the world a better and more peaceful place, for the good of everybody!

 

You've said repeatedly in this thread that this demonstrates how extremely intolerant, hateful, bigoted some atheists are. I'm really quite surprised by that, because all I saw was a few excessive claims made by strongnrelaxed.

Religion is just another difference between people groups. The definition of bigotry shows that not tolerating differences in religion, creed, or opinion = bigotry. So, yes the title is very bigoted and is also very intolerant. It would be like if a Theist wrote the title, "How long till the plague of Atheism goes away?" If a Theist did that, I would dub that what it is: bigotry, intolerance, and hateful. Both Atheists, Agnostics, and Theists can be bigoted, intolerant, and hateful. However, both can also be considerate, tolerant, and caring to each other.

 

The followers of Jesus taught about Jesus. They didn't go hurting and killing people who rejected him or those who were apostates. John 6 includes an example of how Jesus reacted to those who no longer believed in him:

 

John 6 (I boldened some.)

John 6 NIV - Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand - Some - Bible Gateway

"66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. 67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

 

As one can see, Jesus emphasized his loyal follower's beliefs. Throughout the accounts of Jesus' teachings, he did not command them to go hurt or kill those who no longer followed him or those who rejected him. Rather, he commanded love.

 

Horribly, for much of European history, "Christian" leaders did not obey Jesus' teachings but rather disobeyed them horrendously, by persecuting those who did not ascribe to their beliefs. This is deliberate disobedience to Jesus' teachings to love. However, I am so grateful that as more and more people began to study the Bible, they grew in understanding Jesus' commands and in the importance of freedom of religion.

 

I think if you had experienced real bigotry or hatred, then you wouldn't throw those words around so carelessly.

Thank God, I live in a country where freedom of religion is a right. However, it makes my heart break when I hear of people in some other countries who experience persecution for their beliefs. I wish that all people could have freedom to believe whatever they wanted, and I think it's good that in most "Christian" countries nowadays, freedom of religion is now given to all people. That is how it always should have been. Jesus did not teach for his followers to take away people's rights to believe what they thought was right.

 

I am so glad that Atheists can freely be Atheists without worrying about being hurt or killed for it. Why? Because it is evil and wrong to force hypocrisy, and to persecute those who are different than you. It makes me sad that in some countries, being a Christian = being hurt or killed for it. it horrifies me that a long time ago false Christians hurt or killed those who were not "Christian." That is so against Jesus' teachings to love it's horrendous.

 

I am also thankful that there are Atheists and Theists who are not bigoted or hateful of those who are different than them, but rather agree to disagree and work together to make the world a better place!

Edited October 19, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[Eve]

You were quite clearly talking about me, so don't dare act like I'm not within my rights to respond.

 

 

Evidently you have paid almost no attention to anything I've said. I have made no statement that even comes close to this, in fact I have explicitly refused to claim Hitler was any kind of Christian at all, and repeated this assertion soon after, due to yet another claim to the contrary.

 

I really don't understand how hard it is to just listen to what other people have to say before accusing them of holding views that they plainly don't.

 

*Eve cautiously logs on to her crappy netbook computer thing, in bed, noting Graham Norton is on the telly with Arnie as the main guest*

 

Ok, I did note your post at the top off the page, which reads suspiciously like the whole 'internet atheist' BS I only see on the LS and never in real life.

 

This is a part of the post -

 

On the part where Hitler was an atheist, which you keep vacuously repeating because it's apparently too much of a stretch for you to realise that disliking certain religions does not make somebody an atheist. And the crucial points that you are making a lifestyle of avoiding are:

 

Hitler consistently professed belief in a deity in both public and private.

Hitler's only comments regarding atheism were highly scathing.

 

I did browse your post and considered you a fool..

 

By the links you have responded with since then... h'mmm, yes there is some semblance of fair mindedness there and I will regard you with an apology because of this aspect. I do however have an however to attach.. but will do so over the weekend.. after Arnie etc.

 

In brief, I utterly reject the notion that atheists are all uber intelligent and not the root of much discord in the world, just because this is currently your perceived reflection. More later.... on a better computer.

 

Take care,

Eve x

Edited October 19, 2012 by Eve

[pie2]

my avatar.

 

omg, I love it! But you don't scare me (and obviously we know you have a brain).

 

Regarding your post, which is #194 in this thread, I really have to commend you for expressing yourself eloquently, and not ripping into anyone too much (not being sarcastic!)

Edited October 20, 2012 by pie2

[pie2]

s&r, it's undeniable that horrific things happen in the name of god. I think that's why a lot of the Christian movement today has tried to move away from religiosity, and towards spirituality (encouraging a personal relationship with God, rather than adherence to a religious group).

 

So OP, after reading almost 200 posts on your topic, do you think that there is any end in sight? Aside from denying God and Christ's existence, do you have any suggestions? If so, do you think that ending religious intolerance will be the beginning of world peace?

[Anela]

How long until people stop bunching others together, and deciding that they all believe the very same things - there is no room for free will, anywhere - and deciding that every single one of them are wrong, just because you disagree with them?

Edited October 20, 2012 by Anela

[TheFinalWord]

Maybe I should make this my avatar.

 

LOL

 

I think a red herring would go better cause you always try to get the threads back on track, but that'll do :lmao:

[Gunny376]

 

The effect of the atomic bombings on Nagasaki and Hiroshima are hotly

debated. Given that the Japanese navy was decimated and their ability to wage war was neutralised, a deterrant to invasion was probably not needed. Also, they could have dropped the bomb on military targets instead of civilian population centres. There definitely were other ways to end the war.

 

Hiroshima and Nagasaki WERE major military targets. They were major civilian population centers for sure and certain ~ but they were also major manufacturing centers for the Japanese war effort.

 

In so far as invading mainland Japan, one need only study the American Invasion of Okinawa to see how fanatical the Japanese military had become and their disregard for their own civilian population. (Although so-called "Mainland" Japanese consider Okinawans to be the American equivalent of American - African from the Mississippi Delta. Okinawa was once a kingdom unto itself, separate from mainland Japan until around the mid-1800's. Okinawans are a mix of Koreans, Japanese (Mainly) and Chinese. They just have a strong social and cultural connection to mainland Japan.

[Gunny376]

:pBack on topic ~ the current version of mankind as I understand it from my readings (I'm an not expert ~ on the matter) is that v.2 isn't Homo Sapiens, but Homo sapiens, sapiens. (Three words) And that the version of man known has Homo sapiens coexisted in Europe and may have even inter-bred with Nethanderal Man. (Ref: National Geographic & American Science, & American Scientific) somewhere in and around France, Spain, Switzerland.

 

That aside for a moment its to date pretty clear and certain that the FIRST civilizatin arose upon the "Fertile Crescent" along what is currently termed the "Middle East" of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel, etc.

 

THAT'S the "Western" version of it. I'm sure that if the (illieterate and paranoid at the time) Emperor of China hadn't ordered the burning of any and all books we would have a much more clearer version of their history. Not to mention the Spanish and Jesuit burning the Aztec and all the more important Mayan "Codex's" (of which reportedly there were hundreds) written in the Mayan pictographic/hieroglyphic writings. And then there's the destruction at the Roman's hand of the Library at Alexdria!

 

Of this much I am sure and certain. SOMETHING significant happened around 10,000 years ago? What I don't know? But there was a major eruption of civilizaton and cities (Mayan, Azetc (Late commers so to speak) , Hindu, Indus Valley, Egypt, Summeria, modern day Cambodia, China)

 

When it comes to so-called "Christians" and devot so-and-so? I love this!

 

Why Can't I Own a Canadian?

 

Why can't I own a Canadian? At least they speak English (Well except some of the ones in Quebec?)

Edited October 20, 2012 by Gunny376

[Gunny376]

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

 

Hardly used! Cheap! But with child?

[Gunny376]

Hardly used! Cheap! But with child?

 

The answer?

 

My Life and then some!

[skydiveaddict]

Hiroshima and Nagasaki WERE major military targets. They were major civilian population centers for sure and certain ~ but they were also major manufacturing centers for the Japanese war effort.

 

True. Not only that but perhaps more importantly; Gen. MacArthur informed Pres.Truman that by best military estimates, the U.S would have suffered over a million casualties invading Japan. Unfortunate the Japanese suffered these losses at Hiro and Naka, but on the other hand, that's the price they paid for starting a war they couldn't finish.

Edited October 20, 2012 by skydiveaddict