How long until the plague of religion goes away?

[BetheButterfly]

I appreciate your positive spin and sentiment Butterfly, but you are completely ignoring the atrocities of your cult. It is like being a neonazi and trying to distance yourself from Hitler. Some people will let you get away with that but I will not let that crap pass.

 

I don't appreciate you trying to associate me or what I believe to Hitler. I personally have never ever killed anybody or ordered anyone killed. As for the Nazis, one of my role models was imprisoned by the Nazis... Corrie ten Boom. Have you ever heard of her? If you like to read, I recommend her autobiography, The Hiding Place. She was a wonderful Dutch Christian lady who hid Jewish people from the Nazis. Her father died in a Nazi-controlled jail and her sister died in a concentration camp. She was also in the concentration camp till her release.

 

As nice as you seem, there is not one thing. NOT ONE good thing that you can claim, that I cannot. You can claim a proprietary right to any of the moral edicts of the bible (less the first few commandments) that an atheist or buddhist cannot.

It is important to understand that Jesus' teachings, if followed by those who claim to follow him, do help them grow in love. Jesus is very clear when he orders his followers to love their enemies. He does not use figurative speech when expressing that command. Now, I'm sure an Atheist and Buddhist can also love their enemies. Some Atheists however do not see any reason to do so, correct? I don't know about Buddhists, but I have noticed some Atheists who seem very happy and justified to hate and despise other people. However, Christians have no excuse for hating enemies. As a Christian, I am disobeying Jesus' teachings if and when I hate my enemies. Why? Because Jesus makes it so clear that his followers are to love our enemies (Matthew 5:43-48, Luke 6:27-38).

 

Now, let's list what is NOT included in loving one's enemies:

 

Enslaving enemies is not loving them.

Killing enemies is not loving them.

Being rude to enemies is not loving them.

Insulting enemies is not loving them.

Torturing enemies is not loving them.

Raping enemies is not loving them.

Stealing from enemies is not loving them.

Forcing them to convert is not loving them.

Taking away their rights is not loving them.

Mocking them is not loving them.

Verbally abusing them (insulting and mocking goes here too) is not loving.

Physically abusing them (killing, torturing goes here too) is not loving them

Sexually abusing/molesting them (rape goes here too) is not loving them.

 

So you see? Loving one's enemies actually helps the world be a better place, because if one truly loves one's enemies, they don't want to hurt them in any way! Jesus also commands his followers to love their neighbors, which is basically everyone we see!

 

Jesus gave an example of loving one's neighbor: the Good Samaritan story (Luke 10:25-37) which was relevant to his present audience because Jewish people at that time despised Samaritans, sadly. He also give a list of what his followers are to do to their enemies!

 

I love this list!!! (Sometimes it's hard to do though; I'm still working on growing in obeying Jesus' teachings to love everyone!)

 

Luke 6:27-37 quoted in short-command-list form:

 

“...Love your enemies

Do good to those who hate you

Bless those who curse you

Pray for those who mistreat you. "

[Nonviolence; no revenge] - :29

Give to everyone who asks you

[Don't demand items to be returned

Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Love your enemies, do good to them (repeated)

Lend to them without expecting to get anything back.

Be merciful

Do not judge

Do not condemn

Forgive,

Give..."

 

But there are a whole host of bad things that you can claim from the bible and from modern practice that most atheist would reject outright. Genital mutilation, child molestation. Aw hell, I am tired of typing all of these f-ing attrocities.

Circumcision is a pact that between G-d and the descendants of Abraham. The Jewish people I know who have circumcised their children are wonderful parents. They love their kids very much and do their best to give them a quality education, as well as provide for all the children need. Their children are excelling.

 

My husband, even though he is not Jewish, was circumcised as a baby. He does not consider himself to be mutilated. He is happy with his circumcision and does not condemn his loving Mom for having him circumcised. (Some adult men, by the way, get circumcised in order to help with medical issues. Thus, removal of the foreskin is a medical procedure.)

 

The sad cold truth is that no amount of evil, science or proof will ever dissuade an indoctrinated believer from their delusion. It is just that way.

 

I respond here not to convert anyone, but to serve as a beacon of reason for young people who have grown up hearing nothing but this sickness stuffed down their throats.

 

This crap needs to be confronted at every turn.

You are of course free to voice your opinion. However, due the fact that many of us live in countries that have freedom of religion, it would be nice to respect that right, even if you don't agree with it. You are most definitely free to not believe in God, and other people are free to believe in God. People are diverse and have different experiences in life. I am not your judge and you are not mine. Rather, Jesus' teachings help me to be a good citizen, to love people, and to not hurt people in any way. Sadly, many people who call themselves Christians do/have hurt people. Sadly, many Atheists do/hurt people too. However, what is important is that each person strives to make the world a better place, not by insulting and mocking other people that are different than them, but by leading by example in treating other people well, no matter their ethnicity, gender, social status, lifestyle, nationality, or belief/no belief!

Edited September 11, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[sb129]

Lots of great points being admirably dealt with on here regarding evolution and the "proof" for the existence of a god, so as tempting as it is, I won't propel myself into that oart of the argument.

 

As far as I'm aware, atheist are the only group of people described here who can genuinely say that very few if any evil acts have been committed in the name of their atheism.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Its so much easier when you aren't having to defend centuries of violence and crimes against humanity.

All we have to defend is years of documented scientific evidence.

 

I really don't get how an intelligent functioning educated adult could possibly believe in creationism, and the Ussher chronology.

I live in a country where evolution is a compulsory subject in all schools, and I am so glad of that.

[sb129]

That is, admittedly, because atheism doesn't represent anything except one thing that a person doesn't believe in. However, atheists are at times other things as well: fascists, capitalists, communists, environmentalists, industrialists, and everything else.

 

Brace thineself, however, for the usual assertions about Stalin, Mao, and most amusingly even Hitler.

 

Who cares anyway? Truth is not awarded to the "side" with the lowest body count.

 

You're right, but I care. I'm glad I don't belong to a group that has any "body count" however small. Its a small reason why I'm glad I'm an atheist, but its valid to me.

 

Clear conscience and all that- I don't have to defend evil acts the way some of the christians have on this thread.

[sb129]

Refer your post #27.

[todreaminblue]

By some estimates, mankind (Homosapien) is about 100,000 years old (give or take).

 

The Bible goes back approximately 5,000 years. New Testament about 2,000, the Koran about 1,500.

 

How long do you think it will take for mankind to undo the horrible harm that has been done to mankind by the Abrahamic religions over the past few milennia?

 

I don't mean rectifying the rapes, tortures, murders, genocide, incest, and slavery. Nor the wholesale genital mutilations or witch hunts (which still go on in Africa today) nor the numerous scientists who have sacrificed their lives to speak the truth to make the world a better place - to prove that the world is NOT flat, that it is bacteria that make us ill - NOT demons, etc.

 

I mean the effects of breaking our human reason and rationality. The centuries of indoctrination of children and the fear that still makes it virtually impossible to mount a defense against this insanity?

 

I have no idea, but I have given this honest though. If it took us arguable 2 thousand years to get here (on a widescale, Christianity has to be the benchmark) will it take as long to undo these crimes?

 

 

never thank go dfro free willl hey....as long as yoru beliefs make you happy why isnt it others cannot eb happy with theirs......praise jesus....he believes in you even when you dont believe in him...now knock me down belittle and scorn me like you should do to disprove everything you have written...and prove how much against those things of horrible portions you have written ....believe it or not your post is how it all starts so start the war..adn ill stand up fro what i believe in we both wont back down or we can agree to disagree.......ill hug you later and forgive you.after all that i my free will to forgive..religion should be in plague proportions..the truth anyway.....lets twitter truth..yaaaay....kamikazed myself here didnt i......deb

[sb129]

I don't see why they have to defend the actions of other people who just happen to have some label in common.

 

They don't- but they DO, they defend "gods" actions all the time.

 

Aren't we talking from the same page here?

[todreaminblue]

Again tried to correct sp[elling mistakes here is the corrections in a new post...apologies....deb

 

 

 

 

never thank god for free will hey....as long as your beliefs make you happy why isnt it others cannot be happy with theirs......praise jesus....he believes in you even when you dont believe in him...now knock me down belittle and scorn me like you should do to disprove everything you have written...and prove how much against those things of horrible portions you have written ....believe it or not your post is how it all starts so start the war..and ill stand up fro what i believe in we both wont back down or we can agree to disagree.......ill hug you later and forgive you.after all that i my free will to forgive..religion should be in plague proportions..the truth anyway.....lets twitter truth..yaaaay....kamikazed myself here didnt i......deb

[AlexDP]

When taken out of context, that chapter does look and sound pretty dang awful. I won't deny that. However, you have to go back to Numbers 25 to understand why God would order such a thing.

 

The Midianites and the Moabites were trying to corrupt the Israelites, plying them with sex and trying to get them to foresake their one God, in favour of their false Gods. Worshipping false idols is a big no-no in God's book.

 

Does that make it any less awful? No, but let's be honest, wars such as world war two were started over much less, and created more bloodshed, and turmoil. Hitler had no grounds for killing all of those Jews other than pure hate. And invading other countries? Well, that was just because he was a meglomaniac, who desperately sought power and world domination. God ordered a war against people who were sinning against him, corrupting and destroying his children, and worshipping false idols. He's God, He gets to decide what's just, and what isn't.

 

In that link mercy posted, the writer made a good comment about how sometimes the only way to solve something is to do something pretty atrocious. If there was another way, don't you think God would have found it? It's like Hiroshima and Nagasaki (again, borrowed from the link ) those were absolute atrocities on humanity, committed by the US. Was there another way that would have ended the war? Probably not. So if man can call something just and necessary, why can't God?

 

That's a brief point (was it brief? ) that I wanted to make. It's not well-made but I hope you catch my drift.

 

Hiroshima and Nagasaki is probably a bad example. The war could have ended another way. But I understand what you mean.

 

Unfortunately, christianity does not deal with these situations. It doesn't say anything about when faced with two evils.

[sally4sara]

I'd like to start by apologizing for the previous posts-I get a little too heated and sometimes, my frustration boils over. I am genuinely sorry for those posts if they appeared nasty/hostile.

 

The issue with this entire thread is how it has labelled a whole group of people as being affiliated with atrocities such as genocide, rape, incest, murder, child molestation. For most people (unless you're a psychopath) these things are repulsive, and evil.

 

What has been inferred (and at times, said) is that we should apologize for the actions some have taken before us. In that case, should every Muslim apologize for 9/11? If not, why not? It's the same thing. I do not mean that hostile, just a point.

 

Genital mutilation (circumcision) is practiced in religion. It's not a painful procedure for a child to go through, and bears no real effect on the person. My friend, who is a child nurse, performs this procedure a lot, and she says it's quick, one snip and done. Many people get circumcised for medical reasons, not just religious reasons. It's hardly a crime against mankind, is it? So it doesn't stand as an atrocity, and I'd appreciate if you'd actually stop calling the act of circumcision genital mutilation like it's worse than what it actually is.

 

Atheists have committed crimes against humanity too, plenty of them. Should all atheists apologize, too? I'm not sure what you're suggesting sb, because by your logic and reasoning, you, as an atheist, have a clear conscience because you don't belong to a faith. Well, atheism is still a faith. It's a belief in there not being anything there. So, you belong to a group. And by your reasoning, you ought to apologize for the actions of atheists. Does that make sense to you?

 

There's a lot of child molesters out there, and I would be willing to bet that there's a lot more atheist paedophiles out there, than religious ones. Just sayin'. I'm not going to defend people who do atrocities in the name of religion, of course not. Nor am I going to defend anyone who commits atrocities, regardless of walk of life/belief system.

 

Strongnrelaxed, I apologize for being "hostile" and accept your apology for calling me a murderer by accident. However, your view looks upon all of religion (for some reason, you've zoned in on Christianity) as though crimes against humanity are solely committed by and because of religion. That's very narrow-minded, and will never, ever solve the issue of evil, suffering, hate in the world. It just perpetuates it.

 

I don't so much think anyone following a faith with a history of evil needs to apologize for the acts of all who follow that faith as I wonder how they ever found reason to follow it in the first place. Its right there is black and white in the books of their religion. And yes, I read the Koran and found the same thoughts going through my head. I wondered the same when reading the Koran. I think people are usually exposed to these books when very young and its fed to them first with the awful bits kept out and the rest supplemented with pretty songs about being loved so that when they get to the parts about murder and slavery it is easier to not be shocked and turn away from.

 

Yes even people with no faith base do awful things, it seems often though they have found a different god and that is what motivates them. Maybe they worship money or envy (wanting people to envy all they have worshiping materialism) or power. And then there is the by product of religion or any group that amasses power and holds it over others - the revolutionist. Hard to throw off a government or a religious body acting as an authority without acts of violence. Show me a bloodless revolution; I can't think of one.

Atheism however doesn't have a set of rules or some afterlife they need to do things to earn nor a hell they have to do things to avoid so the motivations to act without thinking about the consequences isn't so heavy. I prefer some form of agnosticism. I can say what a being or force behind the curtain might want of us or what its aim would be; it becomes harder to argue and create a heated conflict when it isn't to superimpose my motives onto a faceless who knows what. Not impossible, just not as easy.

[AlexDP]

I'd like to start by apologizing for the previous posts-I get a little too heated and sometimes, my frustration boils over. I am genuinely sorry for those posts if they appeared nasty/hostile.

 

The issue with this entire thread is how it has labelled a whole group of people as being affiliated with atrocities such as genocide, rape, incest, murder, child molestation. For most people (unless you're a psychopath) these things are repulsive, and evil.

 

What has been inferred (and at times, said) is that we should apologize for the actions some have taken before us. In that case, should every Muslim apologize for 9/11? If not, why not? It's the same thing. I do not mean that hostile, just a point.

 

Genital mutilation (circumcision) is practiced in religion. It's not a painful procedure for a child to go through, and bears no real effect on the person. My friend, who is a child nurse, performs this procedure a lot, and she says it's quick, one snip and done. Many people get circumcised for medical reasons, not just religious reasons. It's hardly a crime against mankind, is it? So it doesn't stand as an atrocity, and I'd appreciate if you'd actually stop calling the act of circumcision genital mutilation like it's worse than what it actually is.

.

 

1. The Bible ENCOURAGES genocide. You know what genocide means? The eradication of a people. It is, perhaps, the most gruesome crime known to man. It is a crime that is deemed so wrong that it is one of the peremptory norms in international law. It is jus cogens. It goes against anything we perceive to be good. And the Bible encourages it.

 

In Christianity, the Bible is pretty much the document everything else is based on. This is it. Islam (though, again, jihad is in the Qu'ran, no matter what people might say or think) isn't based on 9/11. You can't hold all muslims responsible for 9/11. But if you're a Christian, your faith is based on the Bible. The Bible encourages genocide ergo you're pretty cool with genocide.

 

That is pretty ****ed up.

 

2. What about female circumcision?

[BetheButterfly]

1. The Bible ENCOURAGES genocide. You know what genocide means? The eradication of a people. It is, perhaps, the most gruesome crime known to man. It is a crime that is deemed so wrong that it is one of the peremptory norms in international law. It is jus cogens. It goes against anything we perceive to be good. And the Bible encourages it.

 

I know this was directed for harmfulsweetz but I would like to address it as well.

 

Jesus commands people who follow him to love their enemies. Loving their enemies does not mean committing genocide. (Matthew 5, Luke 6)

 

As for genocide, many countries, including Atheist-dominate countries like China and Russia, have sadly murdered people. Because murder and genocide are not only found in the Bible but also found around the world where the Bible has no value, one can say that human nature encourages genocide, since it is humans who kill each other for different reasons. The result is the same: death.

 

In Christianity, the Bible is pretty much the document everything else is based on. This is it. Islam (though, again, jihad is in the Qu'ran, no matter what people might say or think) isn't based on 9/11. You can't hold all muslims responsible for 9/11. But if you're a Christian, your faith is based on the Bible. The Bible encourages genocide ergo you're pretty cool with genocide.

 

That is pretty ****ed up.

I have never killed anyone. Have you? Because I have never killed anyone and because I am a pacifist, I am not cool with genocide. Rather, just as Christians have peacefully fought against slavery in the past, so I peacefully fight against war, because of Jesus' teachings to love one's enemies.

 

2. What about female circumcision?

Female circumcision is not mentioned in the Bible. It is a cultural tradition practiced by ancient Egyptians as well as other African countries.

[TheFinalWord]

Jesus commands people who follow him to love their enemies. Loving their enemies does not mean committing genocide. (Matthew 5, Luke 6)

 

I love that part

 

[KathyM]

Well we could head on over to the Museum of Natural History if you'd like? Its free admission (paid for by tax dollars not contributed to by churches) and about a 20 minute train ride for me. Do you live close to DC?

I've been there. Interesting place.

If not, there are many many resources on the internet about the subject. The most familiar these days seems to be wiki so here is that link:

 

Human - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So posting Wiki is your proof? This is no proof. I'm aware that some scientists believe that man evolved from apes. Other scientists do not believe that, and instead believe that man was created by God. I don't believe in evolutionism, and there is no real proof that man evolved from apes. Apes have some similarities to man--that is all. That doesn't constitute proof that there is no God.

 

Doesn't really line up with the Ussher estimate of Earth being roughly 6000 years old starting with the Eden story.

 

Ussher chronology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No one really knows how old the earth is, or how long man has lived upon the earth, except God himself. We, as humans, don't have the capability to determine that. Some scientists may try to estimate, some theists may try to estimate, but no one knows. We are limited by our insufficient human means to try to guess. That's all.

Here is some more on the history of religion if you'd like to consider all belief systems as religions whether they worshiped a god. The christian god was not first BTW and lots going on well before 6000 years ago or any mention of an Adam or an Eve.

 

Timeline of religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

 

Yes every ONE of the register voters can vote how they wish and contribute their money to whomever they like, but churches have been using tithe money to sway politics illegally for a long time now. They are not a person and do not get to cast a vote as a person so they try to influence politics by using the untaxed offerings of their followers who already get their one vote. Case in point and more recently would be the way the mormon church bought an overturning of gay marriage in California. Fortunately is was reversed again later. I wonder how many parishioners tithes got wasted on that one?

You are implying that churches make these decisions on their own without the consent or approval of their congregants. Churches are accountable to their members, and their members are made aware of where the income of the church is being spent. This is no different than any other group giving money to support a certain politician, or encouraging its members to support a certain politician. Labor unions typically encourage their members to vote for the Democratic party. Groups and individuals send money to the campaign of the candidate they feel best represents their values and goals. That is the way democracy works. Many organizations do this--not just churches. As long as these organizations are complying legally with campaign contributions, they are well within their rights to support their candidates of choice with their money.

[sb129]

Some do, for sure. But it's a stretch to imply that all Christians have to defend everything bad that a Christian before them has ever done, which is what you appeared to be suggesting.

 

Ok, I see where you got this from.

 

My mistake.

 

I don't think they all "have" to defend everything bad, not at all.

Not to me anyway,

That's ridiculous, and I can see why you called me out on it.

 

It was post 27 where as you say HS opted into the discussion voluntarily that made me glad I haven't needed to defend the actions of my "group" to date.

[sally4sara]

You are implying that churches make these decisions on their own without the consent or approval of their congregants. Churches are accountable to their members, and their members are made aware of where the income of the church is being spent. This is no different than any other group giving money to support a certain politician, or encouraging its members to support a certain politician. Labor unions typically encourage their members to vote for the Democratic party. Groups and individuals send money to the campaign of the candidate they feel best represents their values and goals. That is the way democracy works. Many organizations do this--not just churches. As long as these organizations are complying legally with campaign contributions, they are well within their rights to support their candidates of choice with their money.

 

Okay so are just unaware that its illegal or do you just not care that it is illegal? And I don't mean that it should be illegal. I mean that it is illegal for a church to tell their members who they should vote for and take money donated to the church and then give it to a political party or candidate.

Its illegal and you can't see what the big deal is - the problem with organized religion in a nut shell. Thanks for helping me point it out.

[KathyM]

Okay so are just unaware that its illegal or do you just not care that it is illegal? And I don't mean that it should be illegal. I mean that it is illegal for a church to tell their members who they should vote for and take money donated to the church and then give it to a political party or candidate.

Its illegal and you can't see what the big deal is - the problem with organized religion in a nut shell. Thanks for helping me point it out.

If a church claims tax exempt status, you are right, that the church is not legally allowed to endorse a political candidate or contribute money to a political campaign. I stand corrected on that point. Since so many of them do, and the IRS rarely does anything about it, it does go on. Churches provide guidance to its members on many aspects of life, and some do promote candidates that uphold the principles the church believes are in accordance with the Bible's teachings. Many of them do that. The IRS rarely takes action against it. But I would agree with you that if the church is claiming tax exempt status, then it should not be participating in promoting a particular candidate.

[M30USA]

"Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near." (Isaiah 55:6)

 

This verse implies that he won't always be here.

[pie2]

Okay so are just unaware that its illegal or do you just not care that it is illegal? And I don't mean that it should be illegal. I mean that it is illegal for a church to tell their members who they should vote for and take money donated to the church and then give it to a political party or candidate.

Its illegal and you can't see what the big deal is - the problem with organized religion in a nut shell. Thanks for helping me point it out.

 

Churches are able to form Political Action Committees within 501c4 groups (with very strict guidelines).

 

It is the PAC formed within the 501©(4) organization that may engage in political activities, not the 501©(4) organization. Id. As long as churches follow this procedure, churches can indirectly support or oppose political campaigns or legislation.

 

Political Speech & Non Profit Tax Issues | American Center for Law and Justice ACLJ

[KathyM]

"Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near." (Isaiah 55:6)

 

This verse implies that he won't always be here.

No, it doesn't. Why do you say that? The verse means that our opportunity to form a relationship/connection with God is for a limited time only--during our earthy life. When our earthly life ends and eternity begins, it will be too late for those who have rejected Him. They will then be separated from God for all of eternity, and God will not respond to them. They will cry out for Him to save them from their fate, now knowing that He is God, but it will be too late for them. He will no longer listen to their pleas.

[M30USA]

No, it doesn't. Why do you say that? The verse means that our opportunity to form a relationship/connection with God is for a limited time only--during our earthy life. When our earthly life ends and eternity begins, it will be too late for those who have rejected Him. They will then be separated from God for all of eternity, and God will not respond to them. They will cry out for Him to save them from their fate, now knowing that He is God, but it will be too late for them. He will no longer listen to their pleas.

 

 

Reread my post.

[KathyM]

Reread my post.

You said it IMPLIES that He won't always be here. What is your point with this?

[strongnrelaxed]

I don't appreciate you trying to associate me or what I believe to Hitler. I personally have never ever killed anybody or ordered anyone killed. As for the Nazis, one of my role models was imprisoned by the Nazis... Corrie ten Boom. Have you ever heard of her? If you like to read, I recommend her autobiography, The Hiding Place. She was a wonderful Dutch Christian lady who hid Jewish people from the Nazis. Her father died in a Nazi-controlled jail and her sister died in a concentration camp. She was also in the concentration camp till her release.

 

It is important to understand that Jesus' teachings, if followed by those who claim to follow him, do help them grow in love. Jesus is very clear when he orders his followers to love their enemies. He does not use figurative speech when expressing that command. Now, I'm sure an Atheist and Buddhist can also love their enemies. Some Atheists however do not see any reason to do so, correct? I don't know about Buddhists, but I have noticed some Atheists who seem very happy and justified to hate and despise other people. However, Christians have no excuse for hating enemies. As a Christian, I am disobeying Jesus' teachings if and when I hate my enemies. Why? Because Jesus makes it so clear that his followers are to love our enemies (Matthew 5:43-48, Luke 6:27-38).

 

Now, let's list what is NOT included in loving one's enemies:

 

Enslaving enemies is not loving them.

Killing enemies is not loving them.

Being rude to enemies is not loving them.

Insulting enemies is not loving them.

Torturing enemies is not loving them.

Raping enemies is not loving them.

Stealing from enemies is not loving them.

Forcing them to convert is not loving them.

Taking away their rights is not loving them.

Mocking them is not loving them.

Verbally abusing them (insulting and mocking goes here too) is not loving.

Physically abusing them (killing, torturing goes here too) is not loving them

Sexually abusing/molesting them (rape goes here too) is not loving them.

 

So you see? Loving one's enemies actually helps the world be a better place, because if one truly loves one's enemies, they don't want to hurt them in any way! Jesus also commands his followers to love their neighbors, which is basically everyone we see!

 

Jesus gave an example of loving one's neighbor: the Good Samaritan story (Luke 10:25-37) which was relevant to his present audience because Jewish people at that time despised Samaritans, sadly. He also give a list of what his followers are to do to their enemies!

 

I love this list!!! (Sometimes it's hard to do though; I'm still working on growing in obeying Jesus' teachings to love everyone!)

 

Luke 6:27-37 quoted in short-command-list form:

 

“...Love your enemies

Do good to those who hate you

Bless those who curse you

Pray for those who mistreat you. "

[Nonviolence; no revenge] - :29

Give to everyone who asks you

[Don't demand items to be returned

Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Love your enemies, do good to them (repeated)

Lend to them without expecting to get anything back.

Be merciful

Do not judge

Do not condemn

Forgive,

Give..."

 

Circumcision is a pact that between G-d and the descendants of Abraham. The Jewish people I know who have circumcised their children are wonderful parents. They love their kids very much and do their best to give them a quality education, as well as provide for all the children need. Their children are excelling.

 

My husband, even though he is not Jewish, was circumcised as a baby. He does not consider himself to be mutilated. He is happy with his circumcision and does not condemn his loving Mom for having him circumcised. (Some adult men, by the way, get circumcised in order to help with medical issues. Thus, removal of the foreskin is a medical procedure.)

 

You are of course free to voice your opinion. However, due the fact that many of us live in countries that have freedom of religion, it would be nice to respect that right, even if you don't agree with it. You are most definitely free to not believe in God, and other people are free to believe in God. People are diverse and have different experiences in life. I am not your judge and you are not mine. Rather, Jesus' teachings help me to be a good citizen, to love people, and to not hurt people in any way. Sadly, many people who call themselves Christians do/have hurt people. Sadly, many Atheists do/hurt people too. However, what is important is that each person strives to make the world a better place, not by insulting and mocking other people that are different than them, but by leading by example in treating other people well, no matter their ethnicity, gender, social status, lifestyle, nationality, or belief/no belief!

 

Believers cherry pick the verses that suit their particular argument. Interestingly they criticize others who "take things out of context"

 

Look, there is not way to get past this impasse. There is no amount of reason that can ever be employed to refute an inherently unreasonable belief system.

 

The best justice system I can imagine would be one in which each person was forced to live in the world of their own creation. If you think, for example, that science is bad, weak, wrong, whatever, then you must reject ALL scientific advances. Remember, your predecessors killed untold numbers of scientists, artists, astronomers, etc. It seems to follow that you do not deserve to benefit from the advances made by science. Including the internet!

 

I know that my words are falling on deaf ears. This level of indoctrination is so deep and hard corps that no amount of reason will convince you.

 

Again, my hope is to point out this sickness and call out the crazy at every turn in the hopes that impressionable people can see how screwed up it all is.

 

I feel especially sad because most religious people are essentially pretty good people. They do not realize the sickness they are supporting and continuing. They do not realize how it keeps us ALL down and in check and out of power.

 

It has always amazed me that people are so willing to support their oppressors. Stockholm Syndrome on a mass scale.

 

Thanks for replying, but quoting scripture is completely worthless. There is great wisdom in the bible, but ultimately it is a very dangerous book based on its outcomes.

 

Please, think hard about this. This is about the future we set forth for our children.

 

Humans are so insanely selfish it is just sad.

[strongnrelaxed]

No, it doesn't. Why do you say that? The verse means that our opportunity to form a relationship/connection with God is for a limited time only--during our earthy life. When our earthly life ends and eternity begins, it will be too late for those who have rejected Him. They will then be separated from God for all of eternity, and God will not respond to them. They will cry out for Him to save them from their fate, now knowing that He is God, but it will be too late for them. He will no longer listen to their pleas.

 

Are these the perspectives of a loving creator?

[strongnrelaxed]

Ok, I see where you got this from.

 

My mistake.

 

I don't think they all "have" to defend everything bad, not at all.

Not to me anyway,

That's ridiculous, and I can see why you called me out on it.

 

It was post 27 where as you say HS opted into the discussion voluntarily that made me glad I haven't needed to defend the actions of my "group" to date.

 

If you want to call anyone out on this, it is me. And you can bet your ass that I think that followers should be taken to task for supporting a system that has inflicted so much damage.

 

The Abrahamic religions are based on a "founder" who was willing to kill his own son because he heard voices in his head. They have been asked to eat the body and blood of their savior. And they worship a dead beaten bloody corpse of a dead good human being on a spike. I cannot for the life of me imagine how people have come to be ok with this..

 

HOW bizarre and twiseted do the claims and symbols have to get? How many young boys must be raped. How many women downed. People killed? Money usurped. How insane does your religious tradition have to be before you decide to question it?

 

Please someone answer this question.

 

How can you continue to respond to these things - all a part of YOUR tradition - by saying 'That's not MY Jesus" or "You are taking these things out of context" Bull****! Dead corpse on a cross is not out of context it is the main symbol of your belief system.

 

You cannot get away with these slippery little denials any more. I am holding you accountable. If you were a kid I would give you all a pass. But if you give even one stinking dollar to these creeps, then all those sins are on you.

 

And it is for these reasons that I really hope that there is a higher being. And I hope that you are held accountable for supporting this sickness when you now have the knowledge and information available to know better.

[M30USA]

Are these the perspectives of a loving creator?

 

Yes. And yours are the perspectives of a limited, finite creature.